The first thing that comes to my mind when trying to fit Evolution here is that it makes the deck very soft to counters, espcially Remand.
That´s why we play 4 Cavern of Souls.
Also, our deck is too much redundant to play a card that tutors another creature. I mean, jumping from Reshaper to Smasher or TKS is not bad, the thing is that i feel like we are doing our opponents a favor by using Evolution so narrowly.
Until someone tests with it and proves the card is worth it i wont lay it myself in Bant Eldrazi.
After playing TarmoDrazi for a while, in my search for the best Eldrazi build, i came to the conclusion that, as many others have said, the flooding problem cannot be deal with.
What i mean with this? I mean that you cant play less than say 23 lands, and although the deck is certainly mana hungry, you will face 8 lands in play without anything to do very often.
While i think Bant Eldrazi is a very good deck, it can be improved, so my initial take is to either trim down on colors, or go up on cantrips.
Oath of Nissa is VERY good, its less than Ancient Stirrings in Eldrazi builds, but powerful enough.
Also our lack of answers make us very soft to decks that need to be interacted heavily with, such as Infect and Affinity.
The first thing i would try is to cut the mana dorks, and try Explosives MB, or some wrath effects; maybe Sunlance?.
Secondly i would try to jam Oath of Nissa for better consistency. Our Plan A CAN´T be double Eldrazi Temple into TKS, because that is not a realistic plan.
Yes, our best draws involve Turn 2 TKS off Temple and a Mana Dork, but this happens rarely, so we need to get more midrangey, we sacrifice explosiveness, but we get consistency. I personally prefer consistency, and much rare explosiveness.
Before i ask you to share this thoughts with me, and give you opinion on my post, i will tell you something that is very difficult to take as a Bant player, including the fact that this card made UW Eldrazi the best deck in Modern History; Eldrazi Displacer is just too cute IN THIS DECK.
It dies to Bolt, it is slow(not very slow, but a little too slow for the format). Blinking creatures and Drowner just doesnt make up for this facts.
I know i know, we all have won many games through Displacer shenanigans, but i think ultimately, it makes the deck slower.
Before going down on this, just try to remember how many times did you lose to Affinity with Displacer and say TKS in the battlefield, where blinking the Plating guy wasnt enough?. Think about that for example..
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
Im also on the train that without the explosiveness of Eye of Ugin, we need more consistency.
Oath of Nissa is the closest thing to Stirrings, of course, if we could play 6-8 Stirrings it would be a whole lot better, but rules....
I feel that im constantly trying to find quick hands. This leads me to mulligan a lot, like Eldrazi pre-ban.
The thing is that this deck can´t mull a lot because you still need some pieces to work with. 1-mana cantrips makes mulligan and not mulligan a lot more smoother.
I will try Oath and Serum Visions, but neither as 4-of.
Could someone give me advice on side boarding vs. elves please? I lost in the semis today against the deck at a GPT. Also lost to the same deck in swiss and it seems like a bad matchup...very frustrated. Here's what I ran today:
On the note of spellskite, what would you guys run in place of it if you expected 0 infect in your meta? It seems kind of weak in almost any other matchup, and since I'm the only infect player in my area at the moment, I can go into locals with about 95% certainty that I won't be facing the deck.
Eldrazi Mimic and 1 extra Bird or Skyspawner depending on your meta and configuration of deck.
Well, after a bunch of testing with the 3/3/3 split of 3-drops i got to the conclusion that the mana base can´t support it the way its build.
I heard many pros like Gerry Thompson, Pascal, Sam Pardee, say that the blue comes in a splash for this deck, and adding Skyspawner kinda messes that up.
What i do think is that Skyspawner MIGHT be more important than Matter Reshaper. So, the natural transistion is to cut one of the two, since Displacer is the most important of the three.
What do you guys think?. Is it time to move over Reshaper or we can battle Affinity and Infect from another angle?.
Skyspawner has been sooo good that i find hard to not play him in the MB.
This deck is still in work and i barely can see the roof.
Played a small tournament yesterday, had some serious matchups. Wrecked Elves 2-1 due to a Grafdigger's Cage nullifying 3 Chords + 1 Company in his hand - he made an attack with Ezuri active hoping I made a mistake.. suffice to say I didn't. Other games were vs. Jund/Junk - I think we should chew those decks up, midrange can't deal with the amount of pressure we put on the board.
Finals I id'd with a Affinity player but we played it out to see how horrible the mu really was, I won on the back of my single ghost quarter - he overloaded the board in the face of my Engineered Explosives (on 2, because Ravager + Skirge) - he was doing math and left 1 mana open to activate his Inkmoth (I noticed), my turn I cracked the EE mainfase to bait out that he would sac his board to Ravager and move the counters to his Inkmoth instead of his 0/1 battlecry dude... he did, afterwards I played my Ghost Quarter and that was GG. This game showed me how important the EE are, for all aggro matchups they matter, A LOT!
Yeah, i definitely agree with the EE portion.
In fact, against aggro swarm, like Affinity, Merfolk, Slivers, etc, it´s a must draw for us.
I found myself with very good hands, and losing anyways.
I also found myself with bad hands, but with Path and EE in hand, and winning or coming very close to it, it matters that much to have a sweeper.
I think it makes a mulligan rule in this deck, if you don´t have the god hand, T2 TKS, T3 Smasher, T4 Another Smahser or Drowner, you should mull until you find SB or Stirrings. This is true for aggro swarm and only that for now.
Since Merfolk has been doing well, what do we do to stop the fish in our matchup?
Engineered Explosives for 2 is the way to deal with the fish.
Watchout for Spell Pierce and dont get greedy with it, if you get 1 Silvergil adept and 1 Lord explosives did its job and its Smasher and Drowner´s job to close it down.
A serious question, how this deck can be a tier if every time we face infect or Coco/kiki chord/maybe affinity we lose hard?
Sure, this is a fun deck but is competitive?
Im not sure about "lose hard" part.
They are definitely hard matchups, but very winnable.
Abzan Cococ may be the easiest of those, because we play interaction and it is harder for them to play beatdown against 5/5 and 4/4's.
Affinity in the other hand may be the hardest. But, really, who wins the Affinity matchup with ease?. It is the best deck in Modern by a mile.
Infect is kinda 45/55. maybe 50/50 depending on your deck configuration.
Never played against Kiki, i really cant see the big problem, but i havent played so, no comment there.
What i do want to point out is that none of those matchups are good, and thats kind of a problem going forward. Luckily, the deck has a high ceiling, so i expect changes in the next months, so that the deck becomes more of a player amongst Tier 1 and 2 decks.
Has anyone else been feeling pretty medium about matter reshaper? He tends to just come down turn three, chump and become another land or something. Like the cantripping is certainly good and maybe I'm not giving it enough credit but I'm thinking of changing to 3/4/2 of skyspawner displacer and reshaper. Reshaper is definitely better early on than displacer, especially against fast aggro, but late in the game the only three drop I want to see is displacer.
How have you guys been feeling on him?
I actually think Reshaper is a need in this deck against aggro and midrange.
Maybe if you are casting him turn 3 you have something wrong, because this deck´s plan is to not play 2 drops so we can jump in the curve to 3 drops quickly by casting them via Dorks or Temple on Turn 2.
He is a beatstick along Noble too, so i would not go lower than 2.
Since i started testing with 3/3/3 of 3 drops i´ve been really comfortable with the deck.
Skyspawner is veeery good, i can´t even believe this card is common.
I tested mulliganing agressively to Ancient Tomb or at least Dork plus Stirrings.
It just doesn´t work since this deck has a midrangey nature. When playing Eldrazi Winter or Legacy, you just don´t have a reason to not mulligan a hand with no 2 mana lands or good anwers.
For example: Yesterday playing against Abzan Company, i mulled a hand that consisted of 1 Temple, 4 random colored and Pain Lands, 1 Smasher and 1 TKS.
This hand was just too slow for me. I mulled and the next 6 were kinda worse but i had more turn 1 and 2 plays.
Now we talking....
That´s why we play 4 Cavern of Souls.
Also, our deck is too much redundant to play a card that tutors another creature. I mean, jumping from Reshaper to Smasher or TKS is not bad, the thing is that i feel like we are doing our opponents a favor by using Evolution so narrowly.
Until someone tests with it and proves the card is worth it i wont lay it myself in Bant Eldrazi.
The cards PL is pretty high though..
What i mean with this? I mean that you cant play less than say 23 lands, and although the deck is certainly mana hungry, you will face 8 lands in play without anything to do very often.
While i think Bant Eldrazi is a very good deck, it can be improved, so my initial take is to either trim down on colors, or go up on cantrips.
Oath of Nissa is VERY good, its less than Ancient Stirrings in Eldrazi builds, but powerful enough.
Also our lack of answers make us very soft to decks that need to be interacted heavily with, such as Infect and Affinity.
The first thing i would try is to cut the mana dorks, and try Explosives MB, or some wrath effects; maybe Sunlance?.
Secondly i would try to jam Oath of Nissa for better consistency. Our Plan A CAN´T be double Eldrazi Temple into TKS, because that is not a realistic plan.
Yes, our best draws involve Turn 2 TKS off Temple and a Mana Dork, but this happens rarely, so we need to get more midrangey, we sacrifice explosiveness, but we get consistency. I personally prefer consistency, and much rare explosiveness.
Before i ask you to share this thoughts with me, and give you opinion on my post, i will tell you something that is very difficult to take as a Bant player, including the fact that this card made UW Eldrazi the best deck in Modern History; Eldrazi Displacer is just too cute IN THIS DECK.
It dies to Bolt, it is slow(not very slow, but a little too slow for the format). Blinking creatures and Drowner just doesnt make up for this facts.
I know i know, we all have won many games through Displacer shenanigans, but i think ultimately, it makes the deck slower.
Before going down on this, just try to remember how many times did you lose to Affinity with Displacer and say TKS in the battlefield, where blinking the Plating guy wasnt enough?. Think about that for example..
Ross got certainly crushed by Grixis.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
Oath of Nissa is the closest thing to Stirrings, of course, if we could play 6-8 Stirrings it would be a whole lot better, but rules....
I feel that im constantly trying to find quick hands. This leads me to mulligan a lot, like Eldrazi pre-ban.
The thing is that this deck can´t mull a lot because you still need some pieces to work with. 1-mana cantrips makes mulligan and not mulligan a lot more smoother.
I will try Oath and Serum Visions, but neither as 4-of.
I won 2-1 today against those bugs. It is hard indeed.
The thing your Sb lacks a lot is Engineered Explosives, it slows them down, and it´s best to set it on 1 and 3.
Dont get too greedy with those because they can go for combo or Coco, or whatever they want since every creature generates mana.
Eldrazi Mimic and 1 extra Bird or Skyspawner depending on your meta and configuration of deck.
Also Wall of Omens is nice along Displacer.
I heard many pros like Gerry Thompson, Pascal, Sam Pardee, say that the blue comes in a splash for this deck, and adding Skyspawner kinda messes that up.
What i do think is that Skyspawner MIGHT be more important than Matter Reshaper. So, the natural transistion is to cut one of the two, since Displacer is the most important of the three.
What do you guys think?. Is it time to move over Reshaper or we can battle Affinity and Infect from another angle?.
Skyspawner has been sooo good that i find hard to not play him in the MB.
This deck is still in work and i barely can see the roof.
Yeah, i definitely agree with the EE portion.
In fact, against aggro swarm, like Affinity, Merfolk, Slivers, etc, it´s a must draw for us.
I found myself with very good hands, and losing anyways.
I also found myself with bad hands, but with Path and EE in hand, and winning or coming very close to it, it matters that much to have a sweeper.
I think it makes a mulligan rule in this deck, if you don´t have the god hand, T2 TKS, T3 Smasher, T4 Another Smahser or Drowner, you should mull until you find SB or Stirrings. This is true for aggro swarm and only that for now.
Engineered Explosives for 2 is the way to deal with the fish.
Watchout for Spell Pierce and dont get greedy with it, if you get 1 Silvergil adept and 1 Lord explosives did its job and its Smasher and Drowner´s job to close it down.
Im not sure about "lose hard" part.
They are definitely hard matchups, but very winnable.
Abzan Cococ may be the easiest of those, because we play interaction and it is harder for them to play beatdown against 5/5 and 4/4's.
Affinity in the other hand may be the hardest. But, really, who wins the Affinity matchup with ease?. It is the best deck in Modern by a mile.
Infect is kinda 45/55. maybe 50/50 depending on your deck configuration.
Never played against Kiki, i really cant see the big problem, but i havent played so, no comment there.
What i do want to point out is that none of those matchups are good, and thats kind of a problem going forward. Luckily, the deck has a high ceiling, so i expect changes in the next months, so that the deck becomes more of a player amongst Tier 1 and 2 decks.
I actually think Reshaper is a need in this deck against aggro and midrange.
Maybe if you are casting him turn 3 you have something wrong, because this deck´s plan is to not play 2 drops so we can jump in the curve to 3 drops quickly by casting them via Dorks or Temple on Turn 2.
He is a beatstick along Noble too, so i would not go lower than 2.
Skyspawner is veeery good, i can´t even believe this card is common.
I tested mulliganing agressively to Ancient Tomb or at least Dork plus Stirrings.
It just doesn´t work since this deck has a midrangey nature. When playing Eldrazi Winter or Legacy, you just don´t have a reason to not mulligan a hand with no 2 mana lands or good anwers.
For example: Yesterday playing against Abzan Company, i mulled a hand that consisted of 1 Temple, 4 random colored and Pain Lands, 1 Smasher and 1 TKS.
This hand was just too slow for me. I mulled and the next 6 were kinda worse but i had more turn 1 and 2 plays.
This deck isn´t easy to play, that´s for sure.
I´m pretty sure Affinity is bad, but Burn and Infect are not that bad.
This is a topic where i´ve seen players say that this deck has no real bad matchups, to players say that Aggro just crushes you.
I can say the deck is capable of beating several strategies, because of its midranagey nature. Do you feel otherwise?.
Im not totally sure about that, the deck is so soft to Blood Moon that basic Waste is pretty much a no brainer.
Also, the problem with Affinity, Infect and RG Tron makes me think that there´s still room for improvement.
The more the deck is played the more it improves, so time will tell.