Jotun Grunt might just be the way to go for a while until delve cards fall out of favor I might look into trying these out as well. it's a hell of a clock and dodges lightning bolts.
This deck is the rock. If you try to play it like anything else I feel like you need to swap out a lot of cards. Before pack rat was printed I think the deck was unplayably bad because of how awful top decking (discard with empty hands) I think you can try things like wrench mind but that means you CANT EVER CUT pack rat. It doesn't have to be the 4 of but you need to have outs to mana flood/drawing too many discard spells Remember they can draw goyfs etc. Zealous persecution is seeing play because it both clocks your opponent AND can act as a sweeper (you'll find most cards we play are multifaceted depending on matchup). I don't think we'd play any tokens if it weren't for the fact that it's A FOUR FOR ONE and combines amazingly with vault of the archangel as one of the stop signs for the deck.
Honestly I don't think it's a problem to cut the sorin. It's more a hedge against burn in the main deck that can also ding ding ding increase your clock and make racing hard.
@Kazral I've already kind of answered most of these questions in my previous 3 or 4 posts but I'll answer them again.
I think Sculler is falling out of favor (at least from my experience) because it was never a lynch pin to the deck it has so many things going wrong for it that it's probably the easiest card to get rid of. Firstly I think Sculler is much bettered suited to a deck that can put a fast clock on an opponent it gives them less time to find their removal spells to kill it. It's pretty bad against K Command(I know I'm playing hangarback but at least I get a thopter back when mine get shattered). The best case for sculler is very good Inquisition -> sculler -> lily -> any other threat can sometimes steal games. The other problem with sculler is they are getting their card back 99 times out of 100. So either you took away the goyf to break their curve out or a bolt to save your next play (bob or what ever) Sweet! then they find their 2nd bolt and the tempo swing is HUGE. All the while if they have anything on defense you can't swing with it to push through damage on something else and you also don't want to chump block with it to give them back the card so it ends up just being a really really bad castigate and we wouldn't play castigate in our deck would we? Finally it's an awful top deck on turn 10 unless it can just become a rat. It's always just been a curve filler that lined up with our game plan but any other 2 drop that can also line up with our game plan should replace it in my opinion
You're 100% right about percy he's the bee's knees.
Swords aren't good in this deck even though you think the would be they just cost too much mana. If stoneforge was unbanned it's possible but I doubt batterskull would stay unbanned, I think the 2 would get switched. the idea of playing battle gear is interesting as you can play it turn 3 and attach it to Bob or what ever 2 drop you went with and swing right away plus it gives you extra outs to kill percy.(it's also another free way to kill bobs if your life gets low)
Cutting a land seems sketchy to add another 4 drop on top of that you really want to hit a 5th land every game to guarantee the possibility of activating Vault of the Archange. This card has probably won me more games than any other card in the deck. It just really ****s up racing and can completely stonewall your opponents if you're on the back foot. I'm running 24 and sometimes I feel like a 25th should be in the deck since we have no selection.
I don't think I'd ever want to run 2 sorins. but I think I would probably start with cutting your last sculler. I really don't like the purpose it serves in the deck. 3 percys seems a bit high though so maybe you could cut 1 of them.
Pulse is great. If you're really worried about burn(it's rampant around here) I think it's the best possible option. It beats skull cracks pretty easily since the clause about returning to your hand still applies even when they skull crack you. it's very very very rare they have 4 mana up and double skull crack to stop your pulse at the end of their turn followed by a mainphase pulse on your turn. I'll think about grafted wargear a bit, I've tried swords to no avail in the deck because of how expensive they are but the 0 mana equip cost combined with multiple good bodies to carry it seems decent. I'll play test it for a while and let you know. I really don't like victim ever since the zombie fish started seeing play. before that I was playing victim or smothers in the go for the throat slot.
So this tournament didn't go exactly how I planned firstly only 8 people showed up so it was kind of a bummer but we played 3 rounds swiss so that was ok.
Deck List:
Round 1
Opponent: G/R Tron
I lost the die roll here
Game 1: no one got to play magic. my opponent went T1 map T2 crack T3 Karn T4 Ugin I kept a hand with double path and no turn 1 discard. I was hoping he was on wurmcoils after the turn 1 map but I was wrong.
Game 2: We both mulligan and I took his sylvan scrying on turn 1 with inquisition. He had 2 mines on turn 2 then on turn 3 his third land was an eye of ugin. I quickly finished him off while he stumbled on lands.
Game 3: My opponent mulled to 5 and kept forest grove one of his eggs pyroclasm O-stone. he Clasm'd my turn 2 bob as expected and I followed up with lingering souls then a flashbacked souls. He had his o-stone on board with only 4 lands and 1 card in hand that I knew was a wurmcoil engine. I made an awful misplay here by casting liliana to make him discard it instead of allowing the engine to come down with 2 paths in hand. Obviously he top decked a land to punish me and cracked his o-stone killing 4 spirits and a liliana leaving me with path path zealous persecution in hand. I ended up losing the game due to not finding another threat until he already had a karn in play and he followed it with a spaghetti monster. ending hand was like double persecution double path
Loss
Round 2 0-1-0
Opponent: Monowhite Prison
I won the die roll.
Game 1: Dear lord was this a game...This game lasted around 35 minutes and quite frankly I should have scooped a lot sooner than I did but I couldn't remember if liliana's ultimate was targeted or not. My opponent started the game with a leyline in play, luckily I didn't end up having any discard in my opener. I cast an early threat (I think packrat) and he cast suppression field so I got to hit him for 1... He followed up the next turn with runed halo naming pack rat and after that ghostly prison.In all honesty I should have scooped here as I had an active dark confidant and even if I could have survived the prison I would have lost to decking first. He eventually got to the point where he had 2 sigil of the empty throne out and was making more angels per turn than my persecutor + sorin emblem could abyss.
Game 2: I went super aggro here and had a disenchant in my opening hand. I got him to 6 life. he had only cast rest in peace because I took his opening hand suppression field with an inquisition. He stabalized with ghostly prison and a sphere of safety and I finally hit enough land drops to get 1 of my rats through that just happened to be a 6/6 with his next card being a second sphere of safety.
Game 3: We played the first 2 turns of the game and then it was over. He played a runed halo naming packrat then I cast a dark confidant and the game was over.
Draw
Round 3 0-1-1
Opponent: Grixis Control
I loveeeeeeeeeeeeee playing this matchup because I get to watch the absolutely disgusting plays that happen from snapcaster + Kcommand but I also have these insane card advantage engines called Lingering souls and watching them slog through all these tokens is also quite fun.
I lost the die roll here
Game 1: I believe I mulliganed to 5 this game having either double colorless or no lands in all of my mulligans. I started off with an inquisition to see his hand of bolt bolt angler snap kcommand + 1 land. I took the snap caster as I only had 1 removal spell in hand. The second turn I played a bob into his bolt and I started to make a bit of a game out of things however we were trading removal for threats and he just hand enough burn to kill me.
Game 2: I don't really remember much about this game except he mulliganed to 5 and I started with an inquisition into liliana. I drew 2 sets of lingering souls and a persecution and the clock was fast enough that I just killed him as he was bolting spirits just to stay alive.
Game 3: This game was a lot closer but I ended up drawing 3 of my 4 souls + dark blast and it was just too much for him to overcome at one point I cast inquisition and it forced him to bolt a spirit and terminate another.
I guess the moral here is when you're playing against grixis the best plan is to just draw all of your lingering souls.
Final standings: 5th place(tied with 3rd and 4th) 1-1-1
Notes about my list: Hangarback walker
This was both better and worse than I expected. In the matchups where you want stony silence he's a bit of a nonbo and you should probably board him out(I'm not positive yet though) however hangarback for x=2 is still pretty decent against most decks and will give you 3 blockers to buy time. Also sometimes you just don't draw a stony silence. The pluses this card has over tidehallow scullers are 2 obvious ones for me, Firstly you lose 0 life when revealing it to dark confidant, and secondly I was never afraid to attack with it just because there was a blocker where as sculler would often be giving them back a card that I still might not have an answer for. Against grixis/jund Kcommand is a house against the thopter generator. there was a few times where I got kcommanded killing bob and hangarback then snapcaster -> k command return a snap from the yard kill your thopter. If you can manage to get another thopter out of the deal you're not too far behind as you can still trade off for the 2/1 snapcaster. In other matches like I said it was just there to buy time and was a great top deck at turn 14 (much like packrat) and just aids in the direction the deck wants to go. One thing to keep note of was I never really got a chance to get a HUGE hangarback. It just never ever ever happened. He draws removal a lot which is good for your bobs. This card is somewhat like a combination of packrat (for inevitability and lingering souls in terms of bodies) I will continue trying this card in the next few tournaments.
Abyssal Persecutor
Wow what a magic card. I had played it in standard where I felt it was lack luster because of the ubiquity of Baneslayer Angel and I always thought his casting cost and drawback were too great to justify playing in modern but this deck is the deck for him. One of the biggest problems deadguy ale has had since I started playing it was all of our threats were so small even though we had great removal card advantage eventually we start topdecking with our opponents and lingering souls become goyf fogs. Sometime even rat is too slow to take the game over when we stabalize. This card is a stop sign. It's the king of modern. The only commonly played removal spell that can kill him is path but we already tax the paths with our 2 drops that they want to kill on turn 1 etc. But in all seriousness this guy stabalized multiple games for me and the combination of this into vault or sorin for me was an insane combination that makes racing unbelievably difficult. I don't think I'll ever play this deck without him unless the next set has a 7/7 for 4 with flying and trample with the same draw back.
Go for the Throat
This card seemed so average but I thought it was the better choice over victim as it could kill gurmag anglers and the casting cost is easier. I think it's fine but I can definitely see myself wanting to kill my hangarback in response to a path and having this in my hand and being sad plus it's a blank against affinity. I think we have a strong matchup against affinity so that doesn't REALLY matter.
Zealous Persecution I'm not totally convinced this card is the nuts but it might very well be. I didn't get to play any matchups where it was a sweeper. Usually I just used it as an anthem when attacking to shorten my clock a turn. The original idea was to make a big hangarback then get it killed then have a persecution later to finish off the game and that just never came about.
Having played temples for a while I think tapped lands are basically unplayable in the deck. Having black on turn 1 is SO important while it's true you're removing a few colorless sources from your deck you don't actually increase the number of turn 1 black sources by playing vents. also I think that for 1 more mana you are way better off playing vault of the archangel. On average it should gain more life (without opening up yourself to a 1 mana stone rain) and it makes blocking miserable.
@TrappedUnderIce what are you still casting that requires double white? I've consciously been cutting down on double white cards just to aid consistency and when I get damnations over wraths I will have only 3 copies of pulse of the fields with ww casting cost(burn is very prevalent here)
I had been running a single sacred foundry for slaughter games already but I feel like stony silence + fulminatar does enough vs tron and both cards have applications in other matchups
Having played temples for quite a while I don't think the new man land is playable there will just be too many hands where we won't have Black on turn 1 if we play too many of these. I eventually cut the temples since I couldn't ever play inquisition/thoughtseize on turn 1. if it was a 2/4 I might be more apt to consider it but dying to everything in the format is pretty :\
If price is an issue I think you should go with B/W tokens it uses a whole lot of commons and uncommons. As you start to cut key cards from the deck I feel it loses power quickly.
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Honestly I don't think it's a problem to cut the sorin. It's more a hedge against burn in the main deck that can also ding ding ding increase your clock and make racing hard.
I think Sculler is falling out of favor (at least from my experience) because it was never a lynch pin to the deck it has so many things going wrong for it that it's probably the easiest card to get rid of. Firstly I think Sculler is much bettered suited to a deck that can put a fast clock on an opponent it gives them less time to find their removal spells to kill it. It's pretty bad against K Command(I know I'm playing hangarback but at least I get a thopter back when mine get shattered). The best case for sculler is very good Inquisition -> sculler -> lily -> any other threat can sometimes steal games. The other problem with sculler is they are getting their card back 99 times out of 100. So either you took away the goyf to break their curve out or a bolt to save your next play (bob or what ever) Sweet! then they find their 2nd bolt and the tempo swing is HUGE. All the while if they have anything on defense you can't swing with it to push through damage on something else and you also don't want to chump block with it to give them back the card so it ends up just being a really really bad castigate and we wouldn't play castigate in our deck would we? Finally it's an awful top deck on turn 10 unless it can just become a rat. It's always just been a curve filler that lined up with our game plan but any other 2 drop that can also line up with our game plan should replace it in my opinion
You're 100% right about percy he's the bee's knees.
Swords aren't good in this deck even though you think the would be they just cost too much mana. If stoneforge was unbanned it's possible but I doubt batterskull would stay unbanned, I think the 2 would get switched. the idea of playing battle gear is interesting as you can play it turn 3 and attach it to Bob or what ever 2 drop you went with and swing right away plus it gives you extra outs to kill percy.(it's also another free way to kill bobs if your life gets low)
If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
Deck List:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pack Rat
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Darkblast
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Thoughtseize
1 Victim of Night
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Mutavault
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Pulse of the Fields
2 Rest in Peace
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Stony Silence
2 Wrath of God
Round 1
Opponent: G/R Tron
I lost the die roll here
Game 1: no one got to play magic. my opponent went T1 map T2 crack T3 Karn T4 Ugin I kept a hand with double path and no turn 1 discard. I was hoping he was on wurmcoils after the turn 1 map but I was wrong.
Game 2: We both mulligan and I took his sylvan scrying on turn 1 with inquisition. He had 2 mines on turn 2 then on turn 3 his third land was an eye of ugin. I quickly finished him off while he stumbled on lands.
Game 3: My opponent mulled to 5 and kept forest grove one of his eggs pyroclasm O-stone. he Clasm'd my turn 2 bob as expected and I followed up with lingering souls then a flashbacked souls. He had his o-stone on board with only 4 lands and 1 card in hand that I knew was a wurmcoil engine. I made an awful misplay here by casting liliana to make him discard it instead of allowing the engine to come down with 2 paths in hand. Obviously he top decked a land to punish me and cracked his o-stone killing 4 spirits and a liliana leaving me with path path zealous persecution in hand. I ended up losing the game due to not finding another threat until he already had a karn in play and he followed it with a spaghetti monster. ending hand was like double persecution double path
Loss
Round 2 0-1-0
Opponent: Monowhite Prison
I won the die roll.
Game 1: Dear lord was this a game...This game lasted around 35 minutes and quite frankly I should have scooped a lot sooner than I did but I couldn't remember if liliana's ultimate was targeted or not. My opponent started the game with a leyline in play, luckily I didn't end up having any discard in my opener. I cast an early threat (I think packrat) and he cast suppression field so I got to hit him for 1... He followed up the next turn with runed halo naming pack rat and after that ghostly prison.In all honesty I should have scooped here as I had an active dark confidant and even if I could have survived the prison I would have lost to decking first. He eventually got to the point where he had 2 sigil of the empty throne out and was making more angels per turn than my persecutor + sorin emblem could abyss.
Game 2: I went super aggro here and had a disenchant in my opening hand. I got him to 6 life. he had only cast rest in peace because I took his opening hand suppression field with an inquisition. He stabalized with ghostly prison and a sphere of safety and I finally hit enough land drops to get 1 of my rats through that just happened to be a 6/6 with his next card being a second sphere of safety.
Game 3: We played the first 2 turns of the game and then it was over. He played a runed halo naming packrat then I cast a dark confidant and the game was over.
Draw
Round 3 0-1-1
Opponent: Grixis Control
I loveeeeeeeeeeeeee playing this matchup because I get to watch the absolutely disgusting plays that happen from snapcaster + Kcommand but I also have these insane card advantage engines called Lingering souls and watching them slog through all these tokens is also quite fun.
I lost the die roll here
Game 1: I believe I mulliganed to 5 this game having either double colorless or no lands in all of my mulligans. I started off with an inquisition to see his hand of bolt bolt angler snap kcommand + 1 land. I took the snap caster as I only had 1 removal spell in hand. The second turn I played a bob into his bolt and I started to make a bit of a game out of things however we were trading removal for threats and he just hand enough burn to kill me.
Game 2: I don't really remember much about this game except he mulliganed to 5 and I started with an inquisition into liliana. I drew 2 sets of lingering souls and a persecution and the clock was fast enough that I just killed him as he was bolting spirits just to stay alive.
Game 3: This game was a lot closer but I ended up drawing 3 of my 4 souls + dark blast and it was just too much for him to overcome at one point I cast inquisition and it forced him to bolt a spirit and terminate another.
I guess the moral here is when you're playing against grixis the best plan is to just draw all of your lingering souls.
Final standings: 5th place(tied with 3rd and 4th) 1-1-1
Notes about my list:
Hangarback walker
This was both better and worse than I expected. In the matchups where you want stony silence he's a bit of a nonbo and you should probably board him out(I'm not positive yet though) however hangarback for x=2 is still pretty decent against most decks and will give you 3 blockers to buy time. Also sometimes you just don't draw a stony silence. The pluses this card has over tidehallow scullers are 2 obvious ones for me, Firstly you lose 0 life when revealing it to dark confidant, and secondly I was never afraid to attack with it just because there was a blocker where as sculler would often be giving them back a card that I still might not have an answer for. Against grixis/jund Kcommand is a house against the thopter generator. there was a few times where I got kcommanded killing bob and hangarback then snapcaster -> k command return a snap from the yard kill your thopter. If you can manage to get another thopter out of the deal you're not too far behind as you can still trade off for the 2/1 snapcaster. In other matches like I said it was just there to buy time and was a great top deck at turn 14 (much like packrat) and just aids in the direction the deck wants to go. One thing to keep note of was I never really got a chance to get a HUGE hangarback. It just never ever ever happened. He draws removal a lot which is good for your bobs. This card is somewhat like a combination of packrat (for inevitability and lingering souls in terms of bodies) I will continue trying this card in the next few tournaments.
Abyssal Persecutor
Wow what a magic card. I had played it in standard where I felt it was lack luster because of the ubiquity of Baneslayer Angel and I always thought his casting cost and drawback were too great to justify playing in modern but this deck is the deck for him. One of the biggest problems deadguy ale has had since I started playing it was all of our threats were so small even though we had great removal card advantage eventually we start topdecking with our opponents and lingering souls become goyf fogs. Sometime even rat is too slow to take the game over when we stabalize. This card is a stop sign. It's the king of modern. The only commonly played removal spell that can kill him is path but we already tax the paths with our 2 drops that they want to kill on turn 1 etc. But in all seriousness this guy stabalized multiple games for me and the combination of this into vault or sorin for me was an insane combination that makes racing unbelievably difficult. I don't think I'll ever play this deck without him unless the next set has a 7/7 for 4 with flying and trample with the same draw back.
Go for the Throat
This card seemed so average but I thought it was the better choice over victim as it could kill gurmag anglers and the casting cost is easier. I think it's fine but I can definitely see myself wanting to kill my hangarback in response to a path and having this in my hand and being sad plus it's a blank against affinity. I think we have a strong matchup against affinity so that doesn't REALLY matter.
Zealous Persecution I'm not totally convinced this card is the nuts but it might very well be. I didn't get to play any matchups where it was a sweeper. Usually I just used it as an anthem when attacking to shorten my clock a turn. The original idea was to make a big hangarback then get it killed then have a persecution later to finish off the game and that just never came about.
@TrappedUnderIce what are you still casting that requires double white? I've consciously been cutting down on double white cards just to aid consistency and when I get damnations over wraths I will have only 3 copies of pulse of the fields with ww casting cost(burn is very prevalent here)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pack Rat
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Arid Mesa
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Mutavault
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Pulse of the Fields
2 Slaughter Games
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Stony Silence
2 Wrath of God