I really wish I had put a Plague Engineer in my Sideboard. It would've saved me game three against Spirits. I may consider Collector Ouphe as well but as it stands artifacts don't really scare me right now.
And I'm really attracted to Seasoned Pyromancer.. I know intuitively it doesn't seem to fit along with what we do but it fills a hole in our plan. It can refill your hand if hellbent, it's a great way to pitch late game useless Wraiths or discard spells, and it provides blockers which allows us to swing over and over again without worrying about dying on the crack back. (I understand this last point wouldn't help against spirits or flying in general but it's still good).
One thing I noticed is that almost all my games went very long. I was arguably the only fair deck at the tournament (along with Esper control). Everyone else played infect, Griselbrand, burn / monored Phoenix, tron, storm, dredge - and in all cases I was able to thwart their plans and win via midrange. This deck is not a fast explosive deck. Playing without blue felt really good. I think 17 land is definitely the right number, as long as you play 4x Traverse. Turn two Traverse for Basic Swamp saved me several times. Faithless looting was great also, but I would never play more than 2. Sometimes it gets stuck in hand for a few turns until I know I have at least 1 card I plan on pitching. But twice looting drew me into TBR for the win. This would be difficult in a 4C list because having two red was hardly an option. But now I reached two red in most games.
One final note is that I think I will move Abrupt Decay to the main deck. I never cast Trophy when it was better than Decay. And giving them an extra land mattered at least once that I remember. I'll move the spare trophy to the board because it's still useful against Tron and Infect, but against those opponents I bring in all Trophy and Decay anyways. The only match I can think of where I actively don't want Decay but I do need Trophy is Titan Shift.
-EDIT
Surgical is the MVP of the day (well, maybe a close 2nd behind TBR). In a deck with 8 discards and a format with tons of 4-ofs, it's rather likely to get them on turn 1 and use surgical as a second free Thoughtseize. In one game against Infect he played turn one Noble off a Wooded Foothills then I Thoughtseize and take his infect, but notice his only other land is another Foothills in hand. I surgical the Foothills and Push the Noble to get him stuck on lands. In a later game against Infect I took a Might of Old Krosa, seeing he had a second one. Hold in his draw step after drawing ANOTHER Krosa, and I surgical both from his hand. Mind you these are plays against INFECT - a deck no one is bringing surgical against. But in the main deck you get this kind of sneaking interaction no one is expecting even in game one. I keep surgical in against almost everything. I think I boarded it out only against Spirits. Twice in this tournament alone I used it an instant speed way to save a creature. Tarmogoyf - put an instant in the graveyard for zero mana, or Shadow - just another way to pay life for extra damage. In the final game against Bridge Vine I cast double surgical on nothing important just to reach lethal damage
Played in a ~35 person Modern championship yesterday, finishing second place losing to Scapeshift in a nail-biter finals match.
I played the above list, with only these changes:
MB -1 Tarfire
MB +1 Surgical
SB - 1 Surgical
SB +1 Anger of the Gods
Round 1 Bant Spirits (1-2)
Game one I drew all four Street Wraith and only Dismember as my removal. I had him dead on board with a massive Shadow but an end step Coco needed to create 3 power to seal the deal, and he got it. Game two he made a strange play when he attacked with a GOST putting my Shadow at 11/11 and leaving himself at 10 life. He played a blocker and passed which I removed and swung in. Game three was long and drawn out but eventually I got a Shadow online and he got Moorland Haunt. I needed one more attack + TBR (which I had in hand) but once again he end step Cocos me with just enough power for the kill.
Round 2 Esper Control (2-1)
Game one I got controlled hard. I scooped to him pulling two Logic Knots off his Narset activations, knowing he also had big Teferi in hand. Game two I ripped his hand apart with 3 discard spells in the first three turns and beat in with a Tarmogoyf. Game three I got 2 Fulminator Mage which kept him off 4 lands since I knew he was holding Jace and Verdict.
Round 3 Dredge (2-0)
Game one he mulligans to 5 and I got a pretty aggressive start with double Tarmogoyf. He just couldn't generate enough blockers. Game two he casts turn 1 looting pitching two dredge cards. My opening held Surgical + Faerie and then I turn 1 Thoughtseize to see two more Looting in his hand. I take something else then Surgical the looting and Faerie the Dredge cards. He plays out a few turns but scoops once I get some threats online.
Round 4 Bridge Vine (2-1)
This was not the new version with Hogaak and Altar. Just the classic with Viscera Seer. Game 1 he got me good binning two Bridges on turn 1 and then playing two Ballista for zero. It was too many attackers and I just couldn't recover. Game two he opened with Stitcher, Gravecrawler, Gravecrawler by turn 3. I responded with a turn 4 Anger of the gods and killed him with Shadow +TBR shortly after. Game three was a bit of back n forth as we both durdled but eventually I began top decking better than him and killed him with a TBR at 2 health (he had a Ballista on 1 with enough mana to pump once next turn)
Round 5 Jeskai O's (ID)
We played a couple matches for fun but there were a few misplays on each side so it was hard to gage. Overall I feel highly favored against the deck
Quarter Finals, 6th seed - UG infect (2-1)
This was my teammate so I know his lines of play very well. In practice I'm always heavily favored but he cheesed out a game one win with Dryad Arbor and pump spells. Game two was long and grueling but eventually I got in GCR. I don't remember much about game three but I know he didn't get a Spellskite so I killed him with double Tarmogoyf and TBR
Semifinals - Monored Phoenix (2-1)
He snuck in a game one win with a topdeck lightning bolt when I had him dead on board next turn. I felt bad winning games two and three because he got flooded and I had extremely solid opening hands with an aggressive follow through
Finals - RG Scapeshift (1-2)
Games one and three were very similar. Tarmogoyf just doesn't grow in this match because they don't dump anything but Sorcery into their bin. Attacking with 3/4 Tarmogoyf just isn't fast enough and even though game three I eventually dropped a Shadow at 7/7, he reached 7 lands and Scapeshift me. Game two I ripped his hand apart and blew him out before he couldn't get anything going. He used Mwonvuli Acid Moss on me in game three which left him at 5 lands on turn three, to my 1 land on turn 3.
We agreed to split prizes so I walked out with a box of Modern Horizons. Can't complain.. The deck treated me well almost all day. This is my first paper event without blue and while I certainly missed it in the Scapeshift match, it was not needed anywhere else. A great day for Jund Shadow!
I played some interesting matches against Mardu Pyro today. The new card Seasoned Pyromancer is extremely powerful. To the point where I could see including 1-2 in our 75 against grindy decks such as GDS or BGx. It's like a red Lingering Souls that can filter draws or just refill your hand if hellbent. I'm going to a local Modern Championship in a couple weeks. I will try this list but really looking forward to incorporating some new MH1 cards
In a few test matches last night, the Guardian seemed too problematic. I never had more than 3ish lands in the yard so the dragon was useless. I did like Wrenn however. Rebuying a fetch to hurt me further and simultaneously get enough lands to do stuff for the next turn. I also noticed that her ping is any target, so she can hit players or even yourself for Shadow purposes. She's a great counter to a top deck LOTV -2 (since it'll be left at 1 loyalty, you can just ping her)
Ore-Scale Guardian was something I hadn't considered but it seems great! Have you played any matches with it? I still think Faithless Looting is better than Magmatic Insight because you get to draw first and you're not required to pitch a land, in case you have excess discard spells for example.
I'll maintain that Force of Despair and Wrenn and Six are the only remotely playable cards for JDS out of this whole set so far. And those are likely Sideboard at best
It's.. gonna be great for The Rock and Jund, and completely unplayable in Shadow decks as these lands make it too difficult to manage your life total.
My thoughts exactly.
Shadow needs to be able to control its life total. And this can't splurge on life either (such as a fetch). I would say it's a hard pass for me, but it's a dream come true for the Rock. Some other cards are interesting. I like the new Planeswalker for RG. It can rebuy a fetch or ping stuff a la Liliana the Last Hope.
Oh and Nimble Mongoose is not an option. It doesn't even turn on ferocious. I would sooner play Werebear if it was printed. Overall not much action for Shadow players so far
-EDIT
What do we think about Force of Despair? It's a great way to pitch late game useless discards or Wraiths. Probably only good against heavy creature decks though. Maybe something for the SB
Maybe I've just been lucky against BGx. I'm not saying I'm favored against them by any means. But other than Tron I would say BGx is the archetype I've played against most in MTGO leagues. I've been blown out many times by the IOK, Push, LOTV trio. But I've also got the drop on them plenty of times
I've honestly had better matches against BGx than against Spirits or Humans. But I would still consider both match-up decent.
The key against Rock is to go for their Bob. It's low key the power house of the deck. Similar to Thing in the Ice from UR Phoenix. The scariest creature is Thing rather than Phoenix itself.
Jund, GDS, and BG Rock I feel all operate similarly, at least with the way they play against me. Lines of play that generate card advantage are key, and against Rock they have no honest card advantage besides Dark Confidant. We see so much more our deck than them, so long as they don't chain LOTV one after another, I think it's at least a 50/50 match up.
Regarding your Sideboard guide, I feel like you're boarding out TBR way too often. Sometimes it's good to keep just 1, and against some opponents I wouldn't recommend boarding it out at all, such as against Humans. IMHO the only matches where I absolutely want zero TBR is against BGx or GDS. Even against UWx I usually leave 1x because a lot of their removal is Sorcery speed
I could see this being done differently and still working. First I'd say Angler should be Bedlam Reveler, and I certainly wouldn't play 3 Scooze. Some number of Faithless Looting feels right if I went this route. Fetch Bauble scrying is nothing to overlook and I'd say it's worth keeping. Bauble helps keep Tarmogoyf at 5/6 as opposed to the average 4/5 in this list (and to a lesser extent regular jund)
Demoting Temur Battle Rage is going to make you way worse against combo. I don't really see how adding BBE and dropping Inquisition is going to help you against combo either. It looks like you're preparing for more grindy long games such as against BG Rock or UW Control. The list doesn't look bad but it just doesn't line up with your explanations.
We also run only 1-2 Liliana Planeswalkers as opposed to 4-5 like BG rock, so it's way less likely you'll get the discard effect. I'll update my claim that, in addition to Grishoalbrand, it would be great against boggles too because they have Leyline. But this is so narrow.
Looking at all 5 lists that have placed top 8 in the last few weeks, seems like Faithless Looting (albeit as a singleton) is staking its claim as a staple just like in GDS. I've been trying it again in my jund list, but I don't know if I'd run it in 4C just because I hate being pulled in too many directions with color.
I've been living the new mulligan rule on MTGO. Been toying with a more combo oriented list but not quite all-in like Shadow Zoo.
Keeping in my Tron, Affinity, and Dredge - since those seem to be the decks on the rise due to the mulligan change. I like how it feels against Tron, haven't played the other two yet. Won two matches against Phoenix also
I would play Liliana's Defeat before Liliana's Triumph. And I'd still likely not use either.. But at least defeat has applications against BG rock & GDS, both of which can be problematic. There is literally no archetype in the Tier 1-2 range of modern that Triumph is useful against, except maybe Griahoalbrand, and as mentioned we are favored there anyway.
Arcanist is an interesting card but likely too slow.
Stephen Snelson back in top 8 (SCG IQ) with a jund list, main deck Surgical Extraction. I really like his Sideboard, including 2 additional Surgical, 3 Anger of the Gods, and even a single Ravenous Trap. Seems to be going all-in for the Dredge match up. list for reference
I'd like to discuss Lava Coil as a Sideboard option against the following decks. I consider this because I currently board in 2x Assassin's Trophy against all of these opponents just to have more removal.
Izzet Phoenix - kills Thing, Phoenix (gone!) and Drake
Humans - kills most everything, except an unchecked Champion
Spirits - kills everything, even X/4 Supreme Phantoms. They can't use the Corpse for Moorland Haunt either
The unique thing that's got me interested is that it's not useless against dredge like all other removal. I often find myself with more cards to remove from my main deck than I have to bring in against dredge. Obviously spending two mana to exile a single Bloodghast or Amalgam is not the best of plays, but it's more favorable than a fatal Push. And specifically it has applications in other match-ups. I'm thinking of it in an Abrade-esque role. And two mana removal spell that has a unique application in that it single handedly deals with any of the izzet threats.
The trick with Phoenix is that they attack you on different levels. Graveyard hate alone isn't enough because they just kill you with thing or Drake. Push isn't always live to kill Drake, so we need something more consistent. Trophy gets the job done but ramping them has its risks (more mana = more spells in one turn) and Trophy is a pretty mediocre removal spell when I'm bringing it against Humans, Spirits, Coco decks, etc. Although I guess Sorcery speed is not too be overlooked here either.
And I'm really attracted to Seasoned Pyromancer.. I know intuitively it doesn't seem to fit along with what we do but it fills a hole in our plan. It can refill your hand if hellbent, it's a great way to pitch late game useless Wraiths or discard spells, and it provides blockers which allows us to swing over and over again without worrying about dying on the crack back. (I understand this last point wouldn't help against spirits or flying in general but it's still good).
One thing I noticed is that almost all my games went very long. I was arguably the only fair deck at the tournament (along with Esper control). Everyone else played infect, Griselbrand, burn / monored Phoenix, tron, storm, dredge - and in all cases I was able to thwart their plans and win via midrange. This deck is not a fast explosive deck. Playing without blue felt really good. I think 17 land is definitely the right number, as long as you play 4x Traverse. Turn two Traverse for Basic Swamp saved me several times. Faithless looting was great also, but I would never play more than 2. Sometimes it gets stuck in hand for a few turns until I know I have at least 1 card I plan on pitching. But twice looting drew me into TBR for the win. This would be difficult in a 4C list because having two red was hardly an option. But now I reached two red in most games.
One final note is that I think I will move Abrupt Decay to the main deck. I never cast Trophy when it was better than Decay. And giving them an extra land mattered at least once that I remember. I'll move the spare trophy to the board because it's still useful against Tron and Infect, but against those opponents I bring in all Trophy and Decay anyways. The only match I can think of where I actively don't want Decay but I do need Trophy is Titan Shift.
-EDIT
Surgical is the MVP of the day (well, maybe a close 2nd behind TBR). In a deck with 8 discards and a format with tons of 4-ofs, it's rather likely to get them on turn 1 and use surgical as a second free Thoughtseize. In one game against Infect he played turn one Noble off a Wooded Foothills then I Thoughtseize and take his infect, but notice his only other land is another Foothills in hand. I surgical the Foothills and Push the Noble to get him stuck on lands. In a later game against Infect I took a Might of Old Krosa, seeing he had a second one. Hold in his draw step after drawing ANOTHER Krosa, and I surgical both from his hand. Mind you these are plays against INFECT - a deck no one is bringing surgical against. But in the main deck you get this kind of sneaking interaction no one is expecting even in game one. I keep surgical in against almost everything. I think I boarded it out only against Spirits. Twice in this tournament alone I used it an instant speed way to save a creature. Tarmogoyf - put an instant in the graveyard for zero mana, or Shadow - just another way to pay life for extra damage. In the final game against Bridge Vine I cast double surgical on nothing important just to reach lethal damage
Draft My Cube!
I played the above list, with only these changes:
MB -1 Tarfire
MB +1 Surgical
SB - 1 Surgical
SB +1 Anger of the Gods
Round 1 Bant Spirits (1-2)
Game one I drew all four Street Wraith and only Dismember as my removal. I had him dead on board with a massive Shadow but an end step Coco needed to create 3 power to seal the deal, and he got it. Game two he made a strange play when he attacked with a GOST putting my Shadow at 11/11 and leaving himself at 10 life. He played a blocker and passed which I removed and swung in. Game three was long and drawn out but eventually I got a Shadow online and he got Moorland Haunt. I needed one more attack + TBR (which I had in hand) but once again he end step Cocos me with just enough power for the kill.
Round 2 Esper Control (2-1)
Game one I got controlled hard. I scooped to him pulling two Logic Knots off his Narset activations, knowing he also had big Teferi in hand. Game two I ripped his hand apart with 3 discard spells in the first three turns and beat in with a Tarmogoyf. Game three I got 2 Fulminator Mage which kept him off 4 lands since I knew he was holding Jace and Verdict.
Round 3 Dredge (2-0)
Game one he mulligans to 5 and I got a pretty aggressive start with double Tarmogoyf. He just couldn't generate enough blockers. Game two he casts turn 1 looting pitching two dredge cards. My opening held Surgical + Faerie and then I turn 1 Thoughtseize to see two more Looting in his hand. I take something else then Surgical the looting and Faerie the Dredge cards. He plays out a few turns but scoops once I get some threats online.
Round 4 Bridge Vine (2-1)
This was not the new version with Hogaak and Altar. Just the classic with Viscera Seer. Game 1 he got me good binning two Bridges on turn 1 and then playing two Ballista for zero. It was too many attackers and I just couldn't recover. Game two he opened with Stitcher, Gravecrawler, Gravecrawler by turn 3. I responded with a turn 4 Anger of the gods and killed him with Shadow +TBR shortly after. Game three was a bit of back n forth as we both durdled but eventually I began top decking better than him and killed him with a TBR at 2 health (he had a Ballista on 1 with enough mana to pump once next turn)
Round 5 Jeskai O's (ID)
We played a couple matches for fun but there were a few misplays on each side so it was hard to gage. Overall I feel highly favored against the deck
Quarter Finals, 6th seed - UG infect (2-1)
This was my teammate so I know his lines of play very well. In practice I'm always heavily favored but he cheesed out a game one win with Dryad Arbor and pump spells. Game two was long and grueling but eventually I got in GCR. I don't remember much about game three but I know he didn't get a Spellskite so I killed him with double Tarmogoyf and TBR
Semifinals - Monored Phoenix (2-1)
He snuck in a game one win with a topdeck lightning bolt when I had him dead on board next turn. I felt bad winning games two and three because he got flooded and I had extremely solid opening hands with an aggressive follow through
Finals - RG Scapeshift (1-2)
Games one and three were very similar. Tarmogoyf just doesn't grow in this match because they don't dump anything but Sorcery into their bin. Attacking with 3/4 Tarmogoyf just isn't fast enough and even though game three I eventually dropped a Shadow at 7/7, he reached 7 lands and Scapeshift me. Game two I ripped his hand apart and blew him out before he couldn't get anything going. He used Mwonvuli Acid Moss on me in game three which left him at 5 lands on turn three, to my 1 land on turn 3.
We agreed to split prizes so I walked out with a box of Modern Horizons. Can't complain.. The deck treated me well almost all day. This is my first paper event without blue and while I certainly missed it in the Scapeshift match, it was not needed anywhere else. A great day for Jund Shadow!
Draft My Cube!
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Faithless Looting
3 Fatal Push
2 Tarfire
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Dismember
2 Temur battle rage
1 Surgical extraction
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained mire
2 Wooded foothills
2 Blood crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping ground
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Collective Brutality
2 Anger of the gods
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical extraction
1 Assassin's trophy
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's command
Draft My Cube!
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My thoughts exactly.
Shadow needs to be able to control its life total. And this can't splurge on life either (such as a fetch). I would say it's a hard pass for me, but it's a dream come true for the Rock. Some other cards are interesting. I like the new Planeswalker for RG. It can rebuy a fetch or ping stuff a la Liliana the Last Hope.
Oh and Nimble Mongoose is not an option. It doesn't even turn on ferocious. I would sooner play Werebear if it was printed. Overall not much action for Shadow players so far
-EDIT
What do we think about Force of Despair? It's a great way to pitch late game useless discards or Wraiths. Probably only good against heavy creature decks though. Maybe something for the SB
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Maybe I've just been lucky against BGx. I'm not saying I'm favored against them by any means. But other than Tron I would say BGx is the archetype I've played against most in MTGO leagues. I've been blown out many times by the IOK, Push, LOTV trio. But I've also got the drop on them plenty of times
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The key against Rock is to go for their Bob. It's low key the power house of the deck. Similar to Thing in the Ice from UR Phoenix. The scariest creature is Thing rather than Phoenix itself.
Jund, GDS, and BG Rock I feel all operate similarly, at least with the way they play against me. Lines of play that generate card advantage are key, and against Rock they have no honest card advantage besides Dark Confidant. We see so much more our deck than them, so long as they don't chain LOTV one after another, I think it's at least a 50/50 match up.
Regarding your Sideboard guide, I feel like you're boarding out TBR way too often. Sometimes it's good to keep just 1, and against some opponents I wouldn't recommend boarding it out at all, such as against Humans. IMHO the only matches where I absolutely want zero TBR is against BGx or GDS. Even against UWx I usually leave 1x because a lot of their removal is Sorcery speed
Draft My Cube!
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bedlam Reveler
1 Scavenging Ooze
Spells (19)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Fatal Push
2 Lightning bolt
2 Assassin's Trophy
1 Dismember
3 Faithless looting
1 Kolaghan's command
2 Temur battle rage
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (19)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded foothills
4 Bloodstained mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood crypt
1 Stomping ground
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Draft My Cube!
4 Death's Shadow
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
2 Gurmag Angler
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (21)
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Collective brutality
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Terminate
1 Dismember
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Polluted Delta
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded foothills
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical extraction
2 Collective Brutality
3 Damping Sphere
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Painful Truths
Draft My Cube!
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Looking at all 5 lists that have placed top 8 in the last few weeks, seems like Faithless Looting (albeit as a singleton) is staking its claim as a staple just like in GDS. I've been trying it again in my jund list, but I don't know if I'd run it in 4C just because I hate being pulled in too many directions with color.
I've been living the new mulligan rule on MTGO. Been toying with a more combo oriented list but not quite all-in like Shadow Zoo.
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
Spells
4 Manamorphose
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
2 Dismember
1 Assassin's trophy
1 Tarfire
3 Temur Battle Rage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained mire
2 Wooded foothills
1 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Collective Brutality
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kolaghan's command
1 Ancient Grudge
Keeping in my Tron, Affinity, and Dredge - since those seem to be the decks on the rise due to the mulligan change. I like how it feels against Tron, haven't played the other two yet. Won two matches against Phoenix also
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Arcanist is an interesting card but likely too slow.
Stephen Snelson back in top 8 (SCG IQ) with a jund list, main deck Surgical Extraction. I really like his Sideboard, including 2 additional Surgical, 3 Anger of the Gods, and even a single Ravenous Trap. Seems to be going all-in for the Dredge match up. list for reference
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The trick with Phoenix is that they attack you on different levels. Graveyard hate alone isn't enough because they just kill you with thing or Drake. Push isn't always live to kill Drake, so we need something more consistent. Trophy gets the job done but ramping them has its risks (more mana = more spells in one turn) and Trophy is a pretty mediocre removal spell when I'm bringing it against Humans, Spirits, Coco decks, etc. Although I guess Sorcery speed is not too be overlooked here either.
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