Not really as you need to spend much mana in order to grow tracker. But I get your point, its a card that is both a threat and card draw. This is true.
The important thing is still though that Tracker is only good in the lategame, whereas Bob can help you in the early game to keep up with opponents. Against combo decks this is much more relevant for example.
I don't disagree and am actively exploring BG as well, primarily because I prefer Tracker to Bob and still love 4 Field in the MD.
Note though that Tracker is not in the same slot like Bob. Tracker is a card you would play in the slot of a BBE in Jund, not in place of a Bob. I find it overall very baffling why people talk about Bob and Tracker so interchangeably. While I think you can technically replace Bob with Tracker, it is important to note that you are loosing a little bit of early game CA engine through it. Tracker is a endgame CA card, wheras Bob is an early CA engine. I for example would run both in my Abzan or Rock list, for that exact reason.
This seems like a solid low to the ground approach, could definitely work. I will be testing a more grindy version with 3 trackers and 24 lands at the beginning I think.
The numbers will certainly be shuffled around here and there, but we all seem to have similar ideas on them. The numbers on Path is what will be most interesting supposedly.
On Path and Trophy, at least you can say the more you play the better they get overall. So having more cards of that effect makes having more of them not too bad, unless being in the early gam. If we play both Path and trophy, it could very well be that these cards are the only removals we have in the early game which is essentially bad. I really think reid duke will think similar about this and would not go below 4 push. I think he will also probably ditch path all togehter now, and replace them with trophies. I for one will try to play 4 Pushs, 4 trophies and an additional removal spell of a kind. Not sure if its pulse, Cast Down, Path or even just CB, but I am not high on having more than 1 Path in the deck now with trophy being around. I think having too many source of giving opponents lands overall weakens our early game against aggro decks too much. Therefore I would be careful with that.
Grabbing LOTVs is the way to go. Can always cheat on the manabase. I would consider grabbing a liliana of the hope (just 1) first if you dont have it yet.
Hello! I've been working on building into G/B/x over the last few months and have made some good progress, but I wanted to check with the forum to see how you guys would prioritize picking up the missing pieces in trades/buying over my next few pay periods. Unfortunately it ends up being the expensive items... ha!
I still need the following:
1x Tarmogoyf (have 3)
2-3x LOTV (have 1)
2x Verdant Catacombs (have 2)
My gut is telling me that getting 1-2x more LOTVs is probably the way to go. I can tweak the manabase a bit to cover for Catacombs (losing out on some Win %) and sub-in extra threats (Scooze, Trackers, etc.) to sub for the last Goyf. Does this sound like a reasonable approach?
Focus on buying goyfs, Catacombs and then LoTV. Currently she is not at her best and I would only run 3 copies for starters. Goyf is more important right now. Agree on LtLH, I think she is more quite powerful right now, and often I like her more than LoTV.
Decay is a problem right now because there's a bunch of relevant stuff that it doesn't hit. That problem is alleviated once we have access to Assassin's Trophy, which will give us 3-4 maindeck answers to anything. When you have that many answers to anything, your narrower answers get the opportunity to line up better, and it's easier to work within Abrupt Decay's CMC restriction. I'm not saying any of this to advocate for playing Abrupt Decay in an Assassin's Trophy world (jury's still out on that), but within that context Vraska's -3 is more likely to find a target, provided you've sequenced your removal to maximize that chance. I think that having that effect as a repeatable option is also incredibly good, the same way that getting multiple uses out of LotV's -2 can snowball a game.
Now we can't know if a decay naturally will have more targets in the future since due to trophy the meta might shift so that other cards or other decks will be played. If your argument was directed that way, then sure, decay will in the future maybe hit more targets. But you explain that simply the presence of trophy makes a decay have more targets. How is that gonna work? How should I understand that? Do you imply meta changes by that? Now because if we dont imply a metachange why would there be more targets if we have the same opposing decks? Just because we can answer the cards we cant answer now with decay doesn't imply that decay will then find other targets more likely. That doesn't make quite sense. But I am assuming you are implying a metachange, despite your explaination suggesting otherwise.
I think overall Junk will be the best GBx deck now. At least in the foreseeable future. Souls and Stony are premium cards to have right now, and I feel a reid duke approach is the best to follow, since it also means we get to run many basics and dont get too colour screwed off opposing trophies.
So I would play a GB deck splashing white for Souls and Stony. The question is how to balance out the numbers. I am currently on this:
In my mind both versions are viable. Either Traverse builds or a classical reid duke style of build. Thats also why those 2 builds are mentioned in the primer. I was never a fan of the "centralized" list people also have been discusing at points.
We had great discussions with Leonardo Giucci about the traverse build, it basically operates as a normal GBx deck with a slight move into traverse for finding silverbullets. This does solve a lot of the problems a typical GBx deck has to face otherwise: Having the wrong kind of answers at the wrong time. Other than Bob there is no early game card draw tool which GBx decks can realisitcally run, so this is natural to happen. When you include a small traverse package, you can compensate that a little bit. However, the focus is shifted towards the need to reach delirium then. And delirium is also by no means a consistant thing to have. However, if you don't have it, the deck can at least operate as a normal GBx deck in that case, which means you are not completely relying on it (and this is important). Overall the question will be if we need the traverse package going onward when we just can run Trophy now. I am curious to see where its going, but my gut tells me that a classic GB deck splashing minor white cards (Souls, Stony and some other SB cards) will be the best performing now. And may it be just for the simple reason that trophy will also be used against us, which means we have to run a decent amount of basics due to that.
I used to play BGx but took a hiatus after some metagame shifts. Assassin's Trophy solves some significant archetype issues and I'm definitely back on board. Let the optimization begin!!
First is the question of colors. I'm leaning away from Jund and towards either Abzan or BG Rock for a few reasons. First, I think the powerful white SB cards are better-positioned now than Bolt/KCommand/BBE. Stuff like Silence is just so much better against KCI and Hardened Scales than the Jund anti-artifact options. Bolt is a strong answer in this metagame, but I feel it doesn't do much against the GY-based aggressive decks that fade one-for-one removal. Contrast that with Path, Settle the Wreckage, and the other white-based GY hate, not to mention Souls to stop go-wide aggro. Finally, although BBE/Bolt was a strong answer to Jace/Teferi, Trophy solves that all on its own. All of this pushes me away from Jund. BG Rock vs. Abzan is a bit of a tossup, and I can see merits for both strategies depending on the metagame.
Where are other BGx veterans and returning players falling on the spectrum? What shell would you start with? I'd really like to see Duke's Abzan list from GP Detroit, which is probably where I'd start.
I would totally go with a reid duke kind of approach, which is mainly straight GB with a small splash for Souls and SB cards. Also I think any good list will start with 4 Trophies absolutely.
Usually its similar to this:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Treetop Village
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Flayer
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Siege Rhino
Non-creature Spells [30]
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Collective Brutality
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lingering Souls
This is already including some trophies.
The important thing is still though that Tracker is only good in the lategame, whereas Bob can help you in the early game to keep up with opponents. Against combo decks this is much more relevant for example.
Note though that Tracker is not in the same slot like Bob. Tracker is a card you would play in the slot of a BBE in Jund, not in place of a Bob. I find it overall very baffling why people talk about Bob and Tracker so interchangeably. While I think you can technically replace Bob with Tracker, it is important to note that you are loosing a little bit of early game CA engine through it. Tracker is a endgame CA card, wheras Bob is an early CA engine. I for example would run both in my Abzan or Rock list, for that exact reason.
The numbers will certainly be shuffled around here and there, but we all seem to have similar ideas on them. The numbers on Path is what will be most interesting supposedly.
Focus on buying goyfs, Catacombs and then LoTV. Currently she is not at her best and I would only run 3 copies for starters. Goyf is more important right now. Agree on LtLH, I think she is more quite powerful right now, and often I like her more than LoTV.
Now we can't know if a decay naturally will have more targets in the future since due to trophy the meta might shift so that other cards or other decks will be played. If your argument was directed that way, then sure, decay will in the future maybe hit more targets. But you explain that simply the presence of trophy makes a decay have more targets. How is that gonna work? How should I understand that? Do you imply meta changes by that? Now because if we dont imply a metachange why would there be more targets if we have the same opposing decks? Just because we can answer the cards we cant answer now with decay doesn't imply that decay will then find other targets more likely. That doesn't make quite sense. But I am assuming you are implying a metachange, despite your explaination suggesting otherwise.
So I would play a GB deck splashing white for Souls and Stony. The question is how to balance out the numbers. I am currently on this:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Treetop Village
1 Shambling Vent
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
Noncreature Spells [23]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB is pretty up in the air for me, but I probably want 2 Stony and a second LtLH in there.
You answered it yourself:
The mirror is right now not relevant at all actually. This might surely change, but from the current point of view, a decay is very bad.
She is crazy good when being on topdeck mode in the lategame
She is good when you are ahead or even
She is insanely bad when you are behind.
Overall in my mind a SB card for grindy matchups.
We had great discussions with Leonardo Giucci about the traverse build, it basically operates as a normal GBx deck with a slight move into traverse for finding silverbullets. This does solve a lot of the problems a typical GBx deck has to face otherwise: Having the wrong kind of answers at the wrong time. Other than Bob there is no early game card draw tool which GBx decks can realisitcally run, so this is natural to happen. When you include a small traverse package, you can compensate that a little bit. However, the focus is shifted towards the need to reach delirium then. And delirium is also by no means a consistant thing to have. However, if you don't have it, the deck can at least operate as a normal GBx deck in that case, which means you are not completely relying on it (and this is important). Overall the question will be if we need the traverse package going onward when we just can run Trophy now. I am curious to see where its going, but my gut tells me that a classic GB deck splashing minor white cards (Souls, Stony and some other SB cards) will be the best performing now. And may it be just for the simple reason that trophy will also be used against us, which means we have to run a decent amount of basics due to that.
I would totally go with a reid duke kind of approach, which is mainly straight GB with a small splash for Souls and SB cards. Also I think any good list will start with 4 Trophies absolutely.