I advise you use the scoring system called out in the OP of this thread. I've quoted it below for your convenience. There have been few changes since the scoring system I'm quoting has been updated. They are as follows: People still receive a bonus point for submitting critiques, but a top 3 is now mandatory if you hope to receive any points for that round. Also, 2 bonus points are now being rewarded in the first round if you vote in the previous month's poll. At least I think these changes are still being used. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what was settled on as far as crits and a top 3 are concerned. Are people still getting a bonus point for submitting a top 3 even though it is now considered mandatory? If not, are we now giving out 2 bonus pts for submitting crits, or are we still only awarding 1? I know you probably can't answer these questions Sub_Silentio, but I'm hoping someone that can will read this and answer them for both of us. Hope this helps.
Prior to Top 8, players have a chance of getting a total of 100 points toward their score each Scoring Round. Scores for each Round are determined by the following equation:
Total points of Player A in round N = 100 * X/Y, where:
X = Total number of Scoring Points (Judge Points + Additional Points from Top 3 & Critiques)
Y = Total number of Possible Points (3 * Number of Judges + Additional Points)
3 points are given for a First Place Top 3 finish, 2 points for a Second Place, and 1 point for a Third Place. 1 additional point is awarded if a Top 3 is submitted. 1 additional point is awarded if Critiques are given for all entries to be judged.
This way the grading is more streamlined in the fact that all rounds prior to Top 8 are graded equally, and there is no handicap for any team that has fewer judges.
Each player accumulates points from each Scoring Round until the end of Round 3.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Hmm, no one knows? Well, I'm flying tomorrow, but will look at everything on Thursday.
I can't say for sure, but I would assume the poll closes the same day August round 2 ends, so 8/15. Although it might end the day before that so that Rocco has time to include voting in the scores for rounds 1 & 2.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
People don't do something merely because it asks less of them - they do things because they feel it is rewarding in some way, either because they enjoyed it, felt that they themselves progressed because of it, or that they were more a part of a community through it.
This statement is where our main difference lies. While I don't really disagree that people don't do something merely because it asks less of them, I do think it can be a major factor. Especially when it comes to hobbies. It's one of the reasons the three main competitions came to be. If you have a lot time to commit and want to be a in a very strict competition, you play in the MCC. If you want to be able to just post a card in a more informal setting and see if anybody likes it, you play the DCC. If you're somewhere in between, you play the CCL. TBH, the CCL is my least favorite competition because I have to post crits (I already think of it as mandatory). I'm sure there must be people out there that avoid the CCL altogether because they don't want to post crits. Not everybody wants the same thing out of a card competition, which is one of the reasons there are three of them.
Edit: BTW, one of the main reasons I started making Magic cards is because it required less of me than actually playing Magic, both financially, and time-wise. So there's at least one example of someone doing something at least partially because it requires less of him.
Edit 2: @kjsharp, I don't post this to try to be disagreeable with you in any way. I totally understand and respect where you're coming from. It's just that I don't think the majority of the community wants to make the crit portion of the CCL more stringent, myself included.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I would like to propose an extension of the current system. (Note: I have not done any of the math here and it may turn out that it's unfeasible.)
As presently: Each player is required to do a top 3 from their assigned scoring batch (a set of 6 players, typically), and optionally may do a critique for that batch. Rules change: A player may to a top 3 and a critique for an additional scoring batch (the next group of 6 players, typically) as long as they don't run out of players, critique themselves, etc. There is some scoring incentive to do additional scoring batches.
In this way, as long as there are players who do bonus scoring batches, on average any given card gets slightly more critiques than they would using the current system.
By "as presently", do you mean what is presently being proposed, or what is presently happening? Because what is presently happening is that people aren't required to post a top 3 or any critiques, they are just encouraged to do so with a point-based reward system.
I'm not so sure how well your suggested rules change would work. Just so we're clear, what you're proposing is to keep everything voluntary, but encourage people to critique more than just the six entries they are assigned in hopes that there are enough people that go beyond the their six assigned entries to make up for the people that don't do any crits at all, right? This idea could potentially make the CCL into more of a judging competition than a card competition. People could potentially get through even if their card did poorly just by posting one line crits of every card in the round.
As long as I'm here, I'd like to +1 bravelion's +1 of my idea.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I'm glad to hear some feedback from someone other than the same three people that have been discussing this for the last few months. Thanks willows.
Taking willows's thoughtful analysis into consideration, I continue to think that making a top 3 mandatory, but crits voluntary, is a compromise that comes the closest to solving the issues at hand. It really isn't that difficult to post a top 3 a few times a month. Heck, people in the DCC post a top 2 everyday without much problem. Top 3's are necessary for the competition to continue, whereas crits are icing on the cake. As has been pointed out, the CCL is considered the mid-grade competition as far as commitment is concerned, making crits mandatory defeats one of the CCL's main objectives, but again, no top 3's ends the contest, so those are kind of necessary for the competition to survive.
Edit: BTW, I'm totally fine with keeping 2 pts as the reward for judging. I was just putting a suggestion out there. Honestly, I'd probably keep competing no matter what the rules are. Chances are, if you make an awesome card, you'll do well regardless of the rules.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
kjsharp's point about nobody submitting a top 3 ending the competition is valid. It's the reason I believe a top 3 should be mandatory and judgments should be voluntary, but encouraged by awarding extra points (maybe 3 pts instead of 2?). It's the same logic behind voting in the DCC being mandatory (honestly, I've often thought about changing the DCC rule about this to make it so that your card isn't considered if you don't vote, but the problem rarely comes up in the DCC). It actually hurts you to vote for someone in the DCC, but if nobody votes, there's no DCC.
I really wish these sorts of conversations didn't get so vitriolic. This forum is meant to breed a feeling of community, these personal attacks do more to harm the community than any of the other things we are talking about. Things are much easier to work out when people don't attack one another.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
For what it's worth, I continue to think that a top 3 should be mandatory, and judgments should be encouraged by giving out points. It's difficult to get a consensus on such a thing though, because there are only a few people that ever have any input on the matter. I'll continue to compete in the CCL regardless of whether the rules are changed or not, but I do agree that it would be a much more enjoyable experience if people actually took the time to judge.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I am in no way disheartened to lose to an excellent designer like bravelion. I hope I didn't offend anybody by replying to people's judgments of my cards. I normally try not to comment on my designs while voting is going on, but in the case of doomfish, it was clear that he had misread my card, which I just could not help but mention. I have no such legitimate excuse for my replies to kjsharp's judgments. I have recently had quite a few of discussions with him about other designs (which I have really enjoyed), so I guess I just wanted to have another. Anyway, congrats again to bravelion. At least I didn't get blown out in the finals like I did a couple of months ago against doomfish.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
OK, I think I'm finally done. I just got a chance to go over the source material again for quite a while, and I have changed my cards significantly. Thanks again for the extension void_nothing, and thank you to bravelion for being the cool dude that he is. This has been an an awesome challenge. I really do hope people take the time to take a look at source material for the cards. It's actually a lot of fun.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Thanks a million void. I hope bravelion doesn't mind. I know he's busy too.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Is there any chance we could get a 1 day extension for the May finals? I've had an extraordinarily busy week, and I'd like to get another chance to look over the source material for the challenge. I spent quite a while doing that the first night the challenge was put up, but I planned to get in at least one more good perusal, which I haven't had time to do. TBH, it might not even matter since I'm taking my son camping with the Boy Scouts this weekend (starting tonight) and still might not get a chance to look things over. I fully understand if you do not want accommodate this request, but I just had to ask.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Literally part of my thought process was: "Hey, I know what custom world I always liked - Ormos. Maybe I'll include it. Better check the set thread... oh. Wait."
I won't have the time or inclination to fully research ten custom planes just for the purpose of casting a single vote. I'll give each set thread a quick perusal while evaluating the submissions, but will definitely be weighing mechanics far above flavor this time.
Yeah, it's a tough one. I spent quite a while last night reviewing the custom sets assigned to me knowing full well most of the people voting won't. It's a super cool challenge though. I enjoyed taking a look at other people's sets. It's not something I regularly take the time to do.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I liked your cards quite a bit IcariiFA. I'm sorry you weren't able to finish them. I will say, if they were flavored more strongly for Tarkir, I probably would've had you in first. As it was, kind of missing out on the whole point of the challenge was enough to push bravelion ahead of you. I liked his cards slightly less mechanically, but felt they were much more in line with the challenge. Anyway, good luck in the MCC.
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(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
I don't disagree with what kjsharp is saying. Until void_nothing pointed out that prowess implies the cards are from Tarkir, I was actually thinking IcariiFA was technically disqualified.
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
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Edit: BTW, one of the main reasons I started making Magic cards is because it required less of me than actually playing Magic, both financially, and time-wise. So there's at least one example of someone doing something at least partially because it requires less of him.
Edit 2: @kjsharp, I don't post this to try to be disagreeable with you in any way. I totally understand and respect where you're coming from. It's just that I don't think the majority of the community wants to make the crit portion of the CCL more stringent, myself included.
I'm not so sure how well your suggested rules change would work. Just so we're clear, what you're proposing is to keep everything voluntary, but encourage people to critique more than just the six entries they are assigned in hopes that there are enough people that go beyond the their six assigned entries to make up for the people that don't do any crits at all, right? This idea could potentially make the CCL into more of a judging competition than a card competition. People could potentially get through even if their card did poorly just by posting one line crits of every card in the round.
As long as I'm here, I'd like to +1 bravelion's +1 of my idea.
Taking willows's thoughtful analysis into consideration, I continue to think that making a top 3 mandatory, but crits voluntary, is a compromise that comes the closest to solving the issues at hand. It really isn't that difficult to post a top 3 a few times a month. Heck, people in the DCC post a top 2 everyday without much problem. Top 3's are necessary for the competition to continue, whereas crits are icing on the cake. As has been pointed out, the CCL is considered the mid-grade competition as far as commitment is concerned, making crits mandatory defeats one of the CCL's main objectives, but again, no top 3's ends the contest, so those are kind of necessary for the competition to survive.
Edit: BTW, I'm totally fine with keeping 2 pts as the reward for judging. I was just putting a suggestion out there. Honestly, I'd probably keep competing no matter what the rules are. Chances are, if you make an awesome card, you'll do well regardless of the rules.
I really wish these sorts of conversations didn't get so vitriolic. This forum is meant to breed a feeling of community, these personal attacks do more to harm the community than any of the other things we are talking about. Things are much easier to work out when people don't attack one another.
BTW, my crits are up.