In the dark, with access to 2 fetchlands, I actually prefer to fetch the Blood Crypt first, preferably with a Bloodstained Mire. It partly makes it more ambiguous what you're playing, but sometimes you discover you're up against Burn or whatever and need to go into life preservation mode. In that case, being able to fetch a Forest on turn 2 lets you still have access to all 3 colors without having to shock again.
Some of the 5-card hands you can see are hilarious, I recently had a game against Tron where we both mulled to 5 and I attacked for 12 on turn 3. In general I find that JDS mulligans a bit better than GDS.
I'm currently looking to run a third TBR instead of Rampager, but I may audible that to an Abrupt Decay for local tournaments, since my local meta tends to be very fair.
I like Brutality against Humans because it kills so many of their creatures and because their ability to race is a bit more explosive thanks to Mantis Rider, so the life gain can be relevant.
My math puts that at 55 cards. I typically like to use the last few slots this way:
1-2 3CMC cards that have applications in fair matchups. Typically this is some combination of Lilianas and K-Command.
2 2CMC cards that can remove creatures that Fatal Push can't. Typically this is either Assassin's Trophy or Terminate, but Dismember works with the caveat that it can't hit Primeval Titan. I would look to include an extra something that can come in against Titan decks in the sideboard when running Dismember.
1-2 2CMC or less cards that round out the removal suite for the given meta. Right now I'm looking at cards like Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay for this.
At a higher level, I've historically liked having at least 1 maindeck answer to artifacts, and am happier with 2. Part of the reason I'm running Trophies over Terminate in the main is because I'm interested in cutting K-Command but don't want to be cold to Chalice or Ensnaring Bridge in game 1.
Okay, this list definitely has the tools you need. This might even line up better against them than my original list that I was referencing before. With your exact list, I would go:
-4 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Abrade
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Languish
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
The same caveat applies of going down to 1 LotV when on the draw for the third Inquisition. Trophy really isn't for their creatures, it's for everything else. Worship, Rest in Peace, and Moorland Haunt can all be deciding factors in the matchup, and you won't always be able to tag them with discard. I've honestly loved having access to Assassin's Trophy to deal with Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt in Coco matchups, where I used to either have to board in a Fulminator (which is not great) or just hope to not lose to it.
That game 1 is my general experience with the matchup, haha. I would sideboard a little differently, though:
-3 Fatal Push
-2 Terminate
-2 Kolaghan's Command
-2 Liliana of the Veil
Over time, I've found K-Command and Liliana to just be too slow and clunky, and your removal is pretty pointless.
This matchup is all about interacting with their lands. I generally find it relatively easy to win on the play (assuming my deck functions normally), and difficult to win on the draw. This means that winning game 1 gives you a big leg up in the match, since you're guaranteed to play a post-board game on the play. On the draw, I'm looking for my 7 card hand to have either multiple discard spells leading to a turn 2 Shadow, or Assassin's Trophy. I'll generally mulligan hands without one of those things, but once I get to 6 cards I'm willing to keep any hand with a discard spell and turn 2 threat.
I found this deck harder to learn than GDS. Stubborn Denial can really bail you out of poor life total management and wrong discard choices, and also allows you to play more reactionary. JDS asks you to think farther ahead and plan at the beginning of the game how you'll manage your opponent's top decks, which I found required a combination of experience playing the deck and familiarity with individual matchups.
Neither one features a straight Jund build, but the way he manages his life total and how he works through discard decisions helped me a ton when I was trying to learn the deck. In particular, he plays a match against Jeskai in one of them that has some very challenging Thoughtseizes that are interesting to look at. I also think Reid is just one of the best people to watch to improve at the game, he's just so thorough and deliberate in his thought process.
Oof, that does sound rough. I'm sorry you had a bad run, but I think I can help.
You actually under-sideboarded for the Spirits matchup, which is likely why you felt like you never had enough removal. With the list you're referring to (which had 3 LotV), my plan was:
-4 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
-1 Liliana of the Veil
+2 Abrade
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Languish
On the draw, I like to cut a second Liliana of the Veil and bring back the third Inquisition. You mentioned that you only had 2 LotV in the main, what were you running instead of the third? I've been consistently underwhelmed by Brutality in this matchup because it just doesn't kill anything, especially if they have lords in play.
In terms of gameplay, I typically play this matchup as if I'm a Jund deck. I'm a bit more conservative with my life total, because eventually you will take chip flying damage from something and you need to not randomly die to it. In general, their curve is much higher than ours, so it's very possible to curve discard -> Goyf -> hold up removal forever. Liliana, the Last Hope doesn't kill a lot in this matchup, but most of their creatures have a base power of 2 or lower, so she's very good at stopping them from racing you while still being a wincon on her own. She also lines up very well against Phantasmal Image and Moorland Haunt. I did lose a bunch as I was learning the matchup, but once you're used to it I do consider it slightly in our favor. They're just a very fair creature deck, and that's one of the things we're built to beat.
I'm interested in how the Tron matchup went for you, because I've found JDS to be extremely dominant every time I've played the matchup. How did you sideboard and mulligan?
I actually play against Hardened Scales pretty consistently (it's my testing partner's main deck), and you don't really need actual artifact hate to beat them, just tons of creature removal. The only non-creature artifacts that they play are Animation Module, Welding Jar, and Opal, although Animation Module can be problematic. I'm still figuring out what my discard priority order is, because it feels like everything is top priority, but my strategy mostly boils down to maneuvering the board so I can stick a big threat and start forcing them to block. My list is definitely soft to whir, and the one time I played against it online I really struggled. If the deck picks up more steam then I'll have to concede that slot back to an Ancient Grudge, but I'm not convinced that I need to do that yet.
Dismember definitely plays to the Shadow half of the deck, I think in general the two Terminates can be whatever you want them to be based on your style and meta. I'm still a Jund player at heart, so I've had a hard time letting Terminate go. I also have the pretty full-art ones that I'm always itching to show off.
The 4 Fulminators is a lot of 3 drops, but if I dropped one it would be for a Phyrexian Arena (I've really been impressed by this card in fair matchups, and against KCI of all things), so my curve isn't really going anywhere anyway. In general I've found 3-drops to be pretty okay in this deck, 4-drops are where I start to get nervous.
The Trophies in the main are a direct response to me tracking my winrate and finding that I'm losing a lot of game 1s. KCI being gone has me really reconsidering moving them back into the sideboard, and I'm also thinking about just a 1/1 split of Terminate/Trophy in the main and side. You liking the maindeck without those changes is interesting, and maybe I'm being too results-driven on that decision.
I'm also waffling on the third Trophy. It was originally an Ancient Grudge, but without KCI I don't know if I need the double-tap that Ancient Grudge provides. That led me to Abrade, but I'm a little unexcited about Abrade at the moment. That then led me to Abrupt Decay, which always feels like the 76th card in my deck. The last to get cut, but very often does. After thinking about what I would board it in against (creatures, GDS, Jund, U/W/x, random permanent-based nonsense), I started to consider just going with a third Trophy. It still comes in against those decks, but the range of threats Decay misses and Trophy hits is pretty significant in the matchups where I want it: Worship, Gurmag Angler, Lilianas, Jace, Teferi, and manlands. Trophy also improves my Tron matchup when on the draw, which I'm very interested in.
I love Fulminator Mage. I used to be a lot less excited about it, but years of seeing how Reid Duke uses it really changed the way I view the card. I consider 3 the minimum in straight Jund Shadow, but I can talk about why I like the full 4 right now:
The effect a single Fulminator has in big mana matchups can set your opponent back significantly. Resolving a second one can often put them so far behind that they can't catch up before you kill them. Aside from that, you need to be interacting with their lands or you will just eventually lose to whatever giant win condition they have. The fact that Fulminator is just as effective against Scapeshift as it is Tron as it is Amulet Titan means that the card just covers a lot of matchups.
I heavily rely on Fulminator to execute my post-board plan against U/W/x. In an ideal world, you curve discard into multiple Tarmogoyfs and just overwhelm them. Realistically, you hit them with some discard, play a Goyf, maybe get a hit or two in before it gets answered, then rinse/repeat. Fulminator factors into that at the simplest level by just being another creature, but a single Fulminator on the battlefield can put strain on all of their win conditions. It straight-up answers Colonnade and a flipped Azcanta, and it makes it more suspect for them to tap out for a planeswalker. That's a lot of equity to get from a single card, and Fulminator only gets better in multiples. Additionally, because you can sac it in response to removal, it helps guarantee that you'll have something to get back with K-Command or Liliana, the Last Hope. All of this means that I'm happy to draw any and all Fulminator Mages in my deck, which means I can take advantage of the full 4. I tend to side out Street Wraiths in some number against both decks, so Fulminator also helps maintain a creature in the graveyard for delirium, with the caveat that it's always turn 3 or later. I board in the full 4 here.
I think it's great against traditional Jund. In addition to checking manlands, it makes opposing Liliana of the Veil (one of the most important cards in the matchup) worse, and you can sometimes just make it much harder for them to resolve their 4+ CMC cards. It's also possible to knock them off of red mana for a bit, which can let you build up enough of a board to overwhelm them when they finally draw out of it. I also board in the full 4 here.
I think it's okay against GDS. There are some games where stone raining them is such a blow to their development that they just don't recover in time. There are some games where you draw it when they have a ton of lands in play, and it's just a chump blocker. I've also had games where I keep targeting their red mana and force them to continually fetch/shock, and then they've struggled to cast cards like Dismember. I'm honestly still learning how to use it in the matchup, but I've enjoyed having access to a few copies so far. Like I said above, I only board in 2-3 here.
Land destruction is hilarious against 4c Shadow for obvious reasons. I haven't played against it with my list, but I would board in the full 4 here.
Much like GDS, it's fine in the Jund Shadow mirror at 2-3 copies.
I've started bringing it in against Burn because I want to be able to cut all of my Street Wraiths and Thoughtseizes, and because the hands where they only have 1-2 lands and the rest burn spells are the hardest ones to beat. The last time I played this I brought in the full 4, but I'm not sure if that holds true with my current version.
I lose more matchups against GDS, Jund, and U/W/x because of not being able to play my cards on time than for any other single reason, so I've gotten into the habit of using my first Traverse very aggressively for lands if I think I won't make my third land drop. I think that this is a distinct advantage against GDS, where some hands can struggle to make their first 3 land drops in a timely manner.
I have a hard time calling 3 EE anything other than poor deck building, especially in this deck. GDS runs it because they have no other way to interact with enchantments, I don't really think it solves problems for JDS.
I've actually felt the loss of Ghor-Clan Rampager a bit, and have considered a 3rd TBR in the sideboard. It's all just meta dependent, though. Not a fan of CB in the main at all.
Nice finish, was the Naya Zoo list a big zoo or little zoo one? I haven't played against either with Jund Shadow, so I'm just curious to hear how the games played out. I think those are reasonable changes to make, although I'll be honest that I haven't felt like I needed Lavamancer in this build. If Humans comes back I could see that changing, though.
As far as your GDS question, that's not a way to sideboard that I've explored, but it's an interesting angle. I think the bigger issue is that it seems like cutting Mishra's Bauble is an attempt to improve your top-decks in the late game, but that's completely at odds with keeping Battle Rages in. I'm pretty sure my lists punish that kind of sideboard strategy very hard, because they have access to so much removal.
I've actually started boarding in Fulminators against GDS because of how much they can stumble on mana. With that particular list, I boarded like this:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Fulminator Mage
I think that on the play, you could also argue for cutting a third Street Wraith for a 3rd Fulminator, which I believe I did in the second IQ I top 8ed.
I'm not sure if I would have double blocked there, did you have any other cards in hand?
This is the list I'm looking to test moving forward:
No big changes, just some minor tweaks and moving things between the main/side boards. I'm really unexcited about playing the 3rd Brutality, but Burn seems to do well against Izzet Phoenix so I don't want to be unprepared. At the same time, I don't really need a third Brutality in any other matchups, so I'm considering something like Duress instead, which is a bit worse against Burn but more generally useful than the third Brutality. I'm also wondering if I should give Scavenging Ooze another shot.
It’s hard to predict, because I don’t think KCI was really suppressing anything, like the effect Dredge had on fair decks in 2016. It really just won a lot while occupying a share of the meta. So I guess I don’t really think much will actually change. I think that Phoenix will continue to pick up steam for a bit longer, as people continue to learn to play against it. I could actually see Amulet Titan picking up a bit, given that it has a similar style to KCI and is enjoying a bit of a renaissance. I consider both to be good matchups, so I’m pretty happy about that.
Pretty funny, but I’m pretty sure there’s no point to Cindervines now, so it looks like Allegiance is a bit of a bust for us.
I agree with your assessments Funeral, I think the only card I’m looking to actually test at this point is Cindervines. Repudiate is a neat option that wasn’t originally on my radar, but it provides some unique utility.
I am still looking to record a deck tech, I just haven’t been able to find the time. I was also sick for a week and lost my voice, which didn’t help.
I think it operates pretty similarly to Fulminator Mage in that matchup, which is what has me excited about it. It's an answer that can be played proactively, and can chip away at your opponent and gradually put pressure on them as the game drags on. I really value cards like that because you do want most of your cards to be proactive, and having to keep in something like Fatal Push to deal with Colonnade (which Grixis has to do) lowers the overall quality of your draws. I do like keeping my 2 Terminates in against U/W/x, though, because the angel package is a pretty widely used option at this point and it still answers random stuff like Colonnade and Vendilion Clique, which can sometimes be randomly problematic. I've been shuffling my list around a bit over the last few days and I'm actually really excited to play against U/W/x again, because it's one of the matchups that I think has been improved by the changes I made.
Cindervines is probably at the top of my list of cards to test. It might end up that pinging for 1 damage just isn't enough and that you're better off just running something like an Ancient Grudge, but this card does check a few boxes for me:
- The obvious hate against Storm/KCI
- Can come in against Izzet Phoenix, and sit in play to eventually blow up a Blood Moon or Pyromancer's Ascension.
- Can come in against a deck like Lantern or the new 4c Artifact Prison deck
- Can come in against U/W/x
- Can come in against Burn and offer the potential to answer an Eidolon without losing any life. Alternatively, it can hit both Rest in Peace and Ensnaring Bridge, which can be problematic cards post-board.
- Can come in against Tron to punish them for spinning their wheels and answer any of the many artifacts they have.
Most of the above matchups are ones where some number of these conditions are true:
- you need to race
- your oppponent's removal lines up well against your creatures, and it can be hard to push the last bit of damage through
- the opposing deck plays a lot of non-creature spells
I'll probably start by trying 2 in the sideboard, just to have a better chance to see them when I board them in. I may even run a league with one in the main instead of my Abrupt Decay, again just to see the card more often. Cindervines jumped out to me as the most playable option, but Electrodominance also jumped out based on power level alone. I don't think this deck runs enough lands to really take advantage of it, but I would be interested in seeing Jund adopt a few copies to regain some of the dominance it used to have over creature-based decks.
In general, this set seems to have more cog pieces than build-around cards (like Phoenix or Hollow One) to me.
This deck has dozens of pilots! Stephen was actually on-camera against Ross Miriam when he was having his break-out performance with Izzet Phoenix a few Opens ago. I don't think he had the Berserkers at the time, but they make a ton of sense on paper. This deck doesn't run many hasty creatures and it's another tool for dealing with resolved Planeswalkers. I'm not sure that you need it, but it's definitely an option worth considering.
I’ve found my matchups against linear decks to be pretty god, especially post-board. Fulminator is a great tool for denying resources, and a well timed stone rain can sometimes decide a game on its own.
Against Spirits and Humans I lean on the Jund half of the deck to just play a classic midrange game. I usually side out all of my Street Wraiths and as many Thoughtseize as I can. I bring in everything that can kill creatures and then look to play a slower game. This means I’m usually fetching a basic early on and generally being more conservative with my life total.
Ad Nauseam is probably a great matchup, you can side out your removal and side in Fulminators and just deny them resources. I’m pretty sure this was always a good matchup for classic Jund, and Shadow has a Lowe fail rate for being aggressive.
Pyro Prison is tricky. A friend of mine is a big proponent of the deck, and he regarded Traverse Shadow as a bad matchup. Basically, Shadow can’t beat their absolute best hands, but it can consistently beat all of the rest. As long as you play around blood moon, you should generally have the tools to break through whatever lock pieces they have assembled.
I consider U/W/x control to be my deck’s worst marchups, but it’s still a winnable one. I really like Fulminator Mage in this matchup, as a way to maintain a board presence while checking one of their win conditions. It’s versatility as an offensive or defensive card is really valuable.
If I wasn’t running Phyrexian Arena I would run a Hazoret. I’m not super wild about Hazoret here because I want this sideboard slot to be a card thay I bring in against BG/G/x, U/W/x, and Grixis Shadow. Both U/W/x and Grixis Shadow have ways to kill Hazoret, and sometimes at 4 mana she gets stuck in your hand. I’m liking Arena right now because I feel like I already have the tools I need to win these matchups, I just need to make sure my threats/answers line up corresctly. This is the perfect opportunity for a raw card advantage engine, and I think Arena is the best option at 3 cmc.
I think you could run BBE, but I don't think it's necessary to beat traditional Jund, U/W/x, or Grixis Shadow. It helps the most against Grixis, but even there I think that there are better cards that we have access to for less than 4 mana, like Liliana of the Veil.
In general, I've found that my best plan against Jund is to leverage the fact that they will (on average) have more dead draws than I will over the course of a long game, because of the additional lands they run. With that in mind, I usually trim on Street Wraiths, cut my Inquisitions, and cut my Battle Rages. With the list I'm currently playing, I would go:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+3 Fulminator Mage
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
There are two things about Jund that make it difficult to navigate: Liliana of the Veil and BBE. A resolved Liliana can win a game entirely on her own, depending on your ability to remove her. You really have to constantly ask yourself what your next turn will look like if your opponent plays a Liliana, I found that the more I hedged against her the better I did. BBE is an issue because of how swingy it is, and because it's such a clean answer to our Lilianas.
I do something similar against U/W and Jeskai, cutting removal instead of discard:
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-3 Fatal Push
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+3 Fulminator Mage
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
I leave in Tarfire as a tool for dealing with Planeswalkers, and Terminate to deal with the angel package these decks commonly run, in addition to Colonnade. U/W has a hard time sticking threats because we're able to cleanly answer a lot of them post-board, so you can take your time to try to sequence your cards to get the maximum value out of them. That's not as true against Jeskai, but their removal doesn't line up as cleanly against you, so in general I find these games to go a bit quicker than U/W.
Against Grixis Shadow, I like overloading on removal. Having played Grixis against a variety of B/G/x and other grindy strategies, the hardest thing to deal with was always the glut of removal that a deck like B/G Rock has access to. While we still don't have quite as much, I've found that this deck does generally have enough removal to keep the battlefield clear. With that in mind, I really don't change a ton:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2/1 Inquisition of Kozilek
-1/2 Street Wraith
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
On the play, I like to trim an extra Inquisition and keep in an extra Street Wraith, to try allow for a more aggressive start. On the draw, it's important that you can be sure your removal spells won't get hit with Stubborn Denial, so I like the extra discard spell.
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Some of the 5-card hands you can see are hilarious, I recently had a game against Tron where we both mulled to 5 and I attacked for 12 on turn 3. In general I find that JDS mulligans a bit better than GDS.
I'm currently looking to run a third TBR instead of Rampager, but I may audible that to an Abrupt Decay for local tournaments, since my local meta tends to be very fair.
I like Brutality against Humans because it kills so many of their creatures and because their ability to race is a bit more explosive thanks to Mantis Rider, so the life gain can be relevant.
I consider the mandatory core of the deck to be:
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Liliana of the Veil
Instant (7)
3x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
2x Temur Battle Rage
Sorcery (12)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf
Artifact (4)
4x Mishra's Bauble
My math puts that at 55 cards. I typically like to use the last few slots this way:
At a higher level, I've historically liked having at least 1 maindeck answer to artifacts, and am happier with 2. Part of the reason I'm running Trophies over Terminate in the main is because I'm interested in cutting K-Command but don't want to be cold to Chalice or Ensnaring Bridge in game 1.
-4 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Abrade
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Languish
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
The same caveat applies of going down to 1 LotV when on the draw for the third Inquisition. Trophy really isn't for their creatures, it's for everything else. Worship, Rest in Peace, and Moorland Haunt can all be deciding factors in the matchup, and you won't always be able to tag them with discard. I've honestly loved having access to Assassin's Trophy to deal with Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt in Coco matchups, where I used to either have to board in a Fulminator (which is not great) or just hope to not lose to it.
That game 1 is my general experience with the matchup, haha. I would sideboard a little differently, though:
-3 Fatal Push
-2 Terminate
-2 Kolaghan's Command
-2 Liliana of the Veil
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Abrade
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+3 Fulminator Mage
+2 Surgical Extraction
Over time, I've found K-Command and Liliana to just be too slow and clunky, and your removal is pretty pointless.
This matchup is all about interacting with their lands. I generally find it relatively easy to win on the play (assuming my deck functions normally), and difficult to win on the draw. This means that winning game 1 gives you a big leg up in the match, since you're guaranteed to play a post-board game on the play. On the draw, I'm looking for my 7 card hand to have either multiple discard spells leading to a turn 2 Shadow, or Assassin's Trophy. I'll generally mulligan hands without one of those things, but once I get to 6 cards I'm willing to keep any hand with a discard spell and turn 2 threat.
I found this deck harder to learn than GDS. Stubborn Denial can really bail you out of poor life total management and wrong discard choices, and also allows you to play more reactionary. JDS asks you to think farther ahead and plan at the beginning of the game how you'll manage your opponent's top decks, which I found required a combination of experience playing the deck and familiarity with individual matchups.
I would also recommend checking out these videos by Reid Duke:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxCFcv4A-U&t=37s
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ualYZpeebc
Neither one features a straight Jund build, but the way he manages his life total and how he works through discard decisions helped me a ton when I was trying to learn the deck. In particular, he plays a match against Jeskai in one of them that has some very challenging Thoughtseizes that are interesting to look at. I also think Reid is just one of the best people to watch to improve at the game, he's just so thorough and deliberate in his thought process.
You actually under-sideboarded for the Spirits matchup, which is likely why you felt like you never had enough removal. With the list you're referring to (which had 3 LotV), my plan was:
-4 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
-1 Liliana of the Veil
+2 Abrade
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Languish
On the draw, I like to cut a second Liliana of the Veil and bring back the third Inquisition. You mentioned that you only had 2 LotV in the main, what were you running instead of the third? I've been consistently underwhelmed by Brutality in this matchup because it just doesn't kill anything, especially if they have lords in play.
In terms of gameplay, I typically play this matchup as if I'm a Jund deck. I'm a bit more conservative with my life total, because eventually you will take chip flying damage from something and you need to not randomly die to it. In general, their curve is much higher than ours, so it's very possible to curve discard -> Goyf -> hold up removal forever. Liliana, the Last Hope doesn't kill a lot in this matchup, but most of their creatures have a base power of 2 or lower, so she's very good at stopping them from racing you while still being a wincon on her own. She also lines up very well against Phantasmal Image and Moorland Haunt. I did lose a bunch as I was learning the matchup, but once you're used to it I do consider it slightly in our favor. They're just a very fair creature deck, and that's one of the things we're built to beat.
I'm interested in how the Tron matchup went for you, because I've found JDS to be extremely dominant every time I've played the matchup. How did you sideboard and mulligan?
Dismember definitely plays to the Shadow half of the deck, I think in general the two Terminates can be whatever you want them to be based on your style and meta. I'm still a Jund player at heart, so I've had a hard time letting Terminate go. I also have the pretty full-art ones that I'm always itching to show off.
The 4 Fulminators is a lot of 3 drops, but if I dropped one it would be for a Phyrexian Arena (I've really been impressed by this card in fair matchups, and against KCI of all things), so my curve isn't really going anywhere anyway. In general I've found 3-drops to be pretty okay in this deck, 4-drops are where I start to get nervous.
The Trophies in the main are a direct response to me tracking my winrate and finding that I'm losing a lot of game 1s. KCI being gone has me really reconsidering moving them back into the sideboard, and I'm also thinking about just a 1/1 split of Terminate/Trophy in the main and side. You liking the maindeck without those changes is interesting, and maybe I'm being too results-driven on that decision.
I love Fulminator Mage. I used to be a lot less excited about it, but years of seeing how Reid Duke uses it really changed the way I view the card. I consider 3 the minimum in straight Jund Shadow, but I can talk about why I like the full 4 right now:
I lose more matchups against GDS, Jund, and U/W/x because of not being able to play my cards on time than for any other single reason, so I've gotten into the habit of using my first Traverse very aggressively for lands if I think I won't make my third land drop. I think that this is a distinct advantage against GDS, where some hands can struggle to make their first 3 land drops in a timely manner.
I have a hard time calling 3 EE anything other than poor deck building, especially in this deck. GDS runs it because they have no other way to interact with enchantments, I don't really think it solves problems for JDS.
I've actually felt the loss of Ghor-Clan Rampager a bit, and have considered a 3rd TBR in the sideboard. It's all just meta dependent, though. Not a fan of CB in the main at all.
As far as your GDS question, that's not a way to sideboard that I've explored, but it's an interesting angle. I think the bigger issue is that it seems like cutting Mishra's Bauble is an attempt to improve your top-decks in the late game, but that's completely at odds with keeping Battle Rages in. I'm pretty sure my lists punish that kind of sideboard strategy very hard, because they have access to so much removal.
I've actually started boarding in Fulminators against GDS because of how much they can stumble on mana. With that particular list, I boarded like this:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Fulminator Mage
I think that on the play, you could also argue for cutting a third Street Wraith for a 3rd Fulminator, which I believe I did in the second IQ I top 8ed.
I'm not sure if I would have double blocked there, did you have any other cards in hand?
This is the list I'm looking to test moving forward:
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wooded Foothills
Artifact (4)
4x Mishra's Bauble
Instant (10)
2x Assassin's Trophy
4x Fatal Push
2x Tarfire
2x Temur Battle Rage
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Creature (12)
4x Death's Shadow
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Assassin's Trophy
3x Collective Brutality
4x Fulminator Mage
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Terminate
No big changes, just some minor tweaks and moving things between the main/side boards. I'm really unexcited about playing the 3rd Brutality, but Burn seems to do well against Izzet Phoenix so I don't want to be unprepared. At the same time, I don't really need a third Brutality in any other matchups, so I'm considering something like Duress instead, which is a bit worse against Burn but more generally useful than the third Brutality. I'm also wondering if I should give Scavenging Ooze another shot.
Pretty funny, but I’m pretty sure there’s no point to Cindervines now, so it looks like Allegiance is a bit of a bust for us.
I am still looking to record a deck tech, I just haven’t been able to find the time. I was also sick for a week and lost my voice, which didn’t help.
- The obvious hate against Storm/KCI
- Can come in against Izzet Phoenix, and sit in play to eventually blow up a Blood Moon or Pyromancer's Ascension.
- Can come in against a deck like Lantern or the new 4c Artifact Prison deck
- Can come in against U/W/x
- Can come in against Burn and offer the potential to answer an Eidolon without losing any life. Alternatively, it can hit both Rest in Peace and Ensnaring Bridge, which can be problematic cards post-board.
- Can come in against Tron to punish them for spinning their wheels and answer any of the many artifacts they have.
Most of the above matchups are ones where some number of these conditions are true:
- you need to race
- your oppponent's removal lines up well against your creatures, and it can be hard to push the last bit of damage through
- the opposing deck plays a lot of non-creature spells
I'll probably start by trying 2 in the sideboard, just to have a better chance to see them when I board them in. I may even run a league with one in the main instead of my Abrupt Decay, again just to see the card more often. Cindervines jumped out to me as the most playable option, but Electrodominance also jumped out based on power level alone. I don't think this deck runs enough lands to really take advantage of it, but I would be interested in seeing Jund adopt a few copies to regain some of the dominance it used to have over creature-based decks.
In general, this set seems to have more cog pieces than build-around cards (like Phoenix or Hollow One) to me.
Against Spirits and Humans I lean on the Jund half of the deck to just play a classic midrange game. I usually side out all of my Street Wraiths and as many Thoughtseize as I can. I bring in everything that can kill creatures and then look to play a slower game. This means I’m usually fetching a basic early on and generally being more conservative with my life total.
Ad Nauseam is probably a great matchup, you can side out your removal and side in Fulminators and just deny them resources. I’m pretty sure this was always a good matchup for classic Jund, and Shadow has a Lowe fail rate for being aggressive.
Pyro Prison is tricky. A friend of mine is a big proponent of the deck, and he regarded Traverse Shadow as a bad matchup. Basically, Shadow can’t beat their absolute best hands, but it can consistently beat all of the rest. As long as you play around blood moon, you should generally have the tools to break through whatever lock pieces they have assembled.
If I wasn’t running Phyrexian Arena I would run a Hazoret. I’m not super wild about Hazoret here because I want this sideboard slot to be a card thay I bring in against BG/G/x, U/W/x, and Grixis Shadow. Both U/W/x and Grixis Shadow have ways to kill Hazoret, and sometimes at 4 mana she gets stuck in your hand. I’m liking Arena right now because I feel like I already have the tools I need to win these matchups, I just need to make sure my threats/answers line up corresctly. This is the perfect opportunity for a raw card advantage engine, and I think Arena is the best option at 3 cmc.
In general, I've found that my best plan against Jund is to leverage the fact that they will (on average) have more dead draws than I will over the course of a long game, because of the additional lands they run. With that in mind, I usually trim on Street Wraiths, cut my Inquisitions, and cut my Battle Rages. With the list I'm currently playing, I would go:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Street Wraith
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+3 Fulminator Mage
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
There are two things about Jund that make it difficult to navigate: Liliana of the Veil and BBE. A resolved Liliana can win a game entirely on her own, depending on your ability to remove her. You really have to constantly ask yourself what your next turn will look like if your opponent plays a Liliana, I found that the more I hedged against her the better I did. BBE is an issue because of how swingy it is, and because it's such a clean answer to our Lilianas.
I do something similar against U/W and Jeskai, cutting removal instead of discard:
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-3 Fatal Push
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+3 Fulminator Mage
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
I leave in Tarfire as a tool for dealing with Planeswalkers, and Terminate to deal with the angel package these decks commonly run, in addition to Colonnade. U/W has a hard time sticking threats because we're able to cleanly answer a lot of them post-board, so you can take your time to try to sequence your cards to get the maximum value out of them. That's not as true against Jeskai, but their removal doesn't line up as cleanly against you, so in general I find these games to go a bit quicker than U/W.
Against Grixis Shadow, I like overloading on removal. Having played Grixis against a variety of B/G/x and other grindy strategies, the hardest thing to deal with was always the glut of removal that a deck like B/G Rock has access to. While we still don't have quite as much, I've found that this deck does generally have enough removal to keep the battlefield clear. With that in mind, I really don't change a ton:
-2 Temur Battle Rage
-2/1 Inquisition of Kozilek
-1/2 Street Wraith
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Assassin's Trophy
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+1 Phyrexian Arena
On the play, I like to trim an extra Inquisition and keep in an extra Street Wraith, to try allow for a more aggressive start. On the draw, it's important that you can be sure your removal spells won't get hit with Stubborn Denial, so I like the extra discard spell.