Okay. So, this might sound crazy, but here is something fun:
I was tinkering and testing with a friend through this afternoon, and we had the idea of attempting a Jund build with 24 lands and running one single "Traverse the Ulvenwald".
The idea behind it: We were a bit torn between 24 or 25 lands (As a lot of people seem to be). 25 seems right when running 4+ 4cc cards, as we need to consistently have 4 lands by turn 4/5 since the likeability of having a 4cc card to drop is very high. But at the same time, 25 lands means more flooding, which was already something common with Jund (And even running manlands, its never a guarantee that we'll have them to mana sink)
So, the idea with Traverse was make it so that running 24 lands + it would mean that if we'd get the Traverse at around turn 5+ we'd already have delirium and thus be able to tutor a Bloodbraid elf or some other powerful/needed creature (Maybe something we've put from SB ? Like a HUntmaster/Fulminator/Hazoret)and if we'd have the Traverse early before that ammount of lands, it'd allow us to make sure we can hit our much needed 4/5 lands for Bloodbraids and Ravines. Now, how consistently can this be achieved?
We played the entire afternoon during what I believe was 15~ ish matches. We played Jund vs. Jeskai Control and later Jund. vs Jund.
My Traverse got used 5 times, and every single one of them it worked.
About twice it was the extra land I needed to reach the necessary ammount of lands, and every other time when I got it I had Delirium and fetched for a HUntmaster or a Bloodbraid. Only in one match did the Traverse appear on my opening hand, and it was a hand that seemed like it already had the lands I'd need (I think I had about 3 lands already in the hand.) After cracking a fetch, using a IOK, by turn 3 or 4 having my creature killed and killing my opponent's creature with a terminate, at around turn 5~6 just saving my Traverse I could fetch a very nice Bloodbraid from it. All it took was a little patience with it. I think that in a deck that runs ~8 Sorceries, ~5 planeswalkers ~9ish Instants ~15 creatures and a ton of fetches, its very consistent at achieving Delirium.
Anyway, just thought I'd talk about it, defnetly will take A LOT more trying to find out if its worth it indeed, after all, its just a 1-of in the deck, so it doesnt show up often. But on paper and, so far, on practice, it has worked wonders. (Maybe I was just lucky it didnt flop not once?)
On paper, the benefits from it would be:
-> Less likeability to flood without having to risk playing with less potential mana, as Traverse counts as a land in a way, but also counts as a creature when it works.
-> Tutoring a creature is pretty powerful in Jund, as Bloodbraid elf can have such a huge impact.
-> Makes other potential creature drops that may come from our SB super good too, even as a "1 of" and more likelly to be found at the needed time:
-Huntmasters excell at the kind of board state that Bloodbraid is most likelly to fail: Your opponent has no hand and no board, meaning there is a HUGE chance your BBE will flop. Whereas a Huntmaster would probably take over the game from there.
-Hazoret as a potential finisher during a grindy match that you can end by hitting hard and fast. You can tutor it when you have plenty of things to discard for damage or when you're already short on your hand and can go on beating with it.
-Grabbing fulminator mages is huge against combo decks and tron in general that we may struggle against (And indeed, against a lot of decks in general.) same with Grabbing Scoozes vs. Decks that are interacting with their graveyard, for instance.
->Even if you're short in mana and needing an instant clock on your opponent, you can fetch a Goyf and drop it right away to increase the damage output
-> Allows us to grab basic lands to save us from FoR, BloodMoons, Taxes, etc.
IDK, I'm really considering attempting this 24 lands + 1 Traverse build next wednesday at the shop. I really loved it during this little "test". Having a 1 extra chance of drawing the creature you need while still balancing out your mana-base felt great.
Vs Abzan discard will be sided out after game 1, so that will only sometimes be an issue game 1. Again, I think against Control, if they have no card in hand, you are in a decent spot already. I am fine with "just" getting the 3/2 body onto the board. And one think you are forgetting here is that BBE also cleared the top of the deck with the useless IOK at this point. If they have Cryptic, its alright by me also. In this particular case its not that amazing to hit IOK, but that seems like a corner case for me. However, you say your mainproblem is removal. If you are up in a topdeck war and draw BBE, cast it and hit a useless removal spell, its still fine at least. You get to chunk in for some dmg and have a threat at least. Thats the "risk" you have to take when you jam BBE onto an empty board. I think in midrange attrition based mirrors there can be made an argument for holding onto the BBE in order to get more guaranteed value with her, since Tempo is not important here unless you are getting to kill them in a reasonable time. If the opponent is at 6, you cast BBE and go for the win next turn. And to add, we also lowered the amount of Push/Decay/Terminate for the reason that sometimes they are bad hits. I personally would not overthink that and therefore jam too many clunky 4 drops into the deck. If you like Huntmaster, just play him in the SB and bring him in in those grindy matchups. Huntmaster is still a good card, so don't feel discouraged to play him. But I advise you to watch your manacurve by doing so, since I don't want you to get screwed by your own deck.
Yeah, its what I'm thinking too.
Bit worried about the mana-curve.
I'm thinking trying 4BBE's +1Huntmaster main (while bringing another on the side, or maybe a Hazoret on the side.) And see how that goes.
With 25 lands I'm finding very abundant lands and pretty consistently hitting 4 lands turn 4, so maybe 5 4cc isnt so bad.
(Sometimes I'm flooding too. lol. But 4 manlands helps at making that not-so-bad and maybe if I run 5 4cc drops my mid/late-game top-decks get better. So Even if I'm drawing too many lands, it gets somewhat balanced out by the fact I'm drawing "2for1" cards more often.)
I might add, I'm not running as many 3cc cards as most, so maybe that balances out a bit too.
I'll experiment, I guess.
And yeah, BBE is never useless since at the very worst she is a 3/2 with haste, which isnt that awful. But a "bad-hitting" BBE still is a weak drop in comparison to a Huntmaster, which is why there indeed are times I'm like "aww man, I miss my hunts"
I'm loving BBE. but in the grindy match ups I've had latelly I found it subpar to Huntmaster (At least in the short experience I had with it so far)
Too often hitting IOK against decks that only have Commands or nothing at all in hand or removal against decks whose only creatures in the board are among their lands...
My huntmaster if it'd last a single turn on the board was GG most of the time, feels like both BBE often is a 2 for 1, and sometimes a 3 for 1 if you're really lucky. While huntmaster always is a 2 for 1 and sometimes a -as many as I can count- for one if it lasts.
Not saying huntmaster > bbe by any chance. BBe is way better thanks to the more instant vallue, but I'm not sure I'm liking it MORE than huntmaster against some matchups
Oh, and if I were to try Hazoret, what build you'd recommend ? 4 BBE's + 1 hazoret ? 4 + 2 is do-able in a 25 lands deck ? or 6 "4cc creatures" is too heavy ?
I really encourage you to play with BBE a little longer, you probably have just been unlucky.
How many IOKs do you run? And against which matchups do you hit IOK that have no cards in hand? If its control, why is that bad? They have no cards in hand.
That situations you are talking about should be smoothed out by sidboarding. Removal gets cut against Control, and discard gets cut against creature heavy decks. Then you will be fine.
Against which matchups you like Huntmaster more? I can only talk in a general way now, since I dont know what matchups you exactly mean.
4 BBE is fixed, always. I think you can try playing a firth 4 mana creature if you really like, but I personally would just play them in the SB.
Alright! Sorry for the lack of context.
I attempted something very close to Reid's list (but with 3IOK +1Seize instead of 4IOK's... Idk, running no seizes felt weird to me I guess. Oh, also I dont run 5 planeswalkers, I use 3 Veils + 1 Last hope. [So you could say that my deck only has 7 3cc cards as in 2 kolaghans, 1 pulse, 4 lilies.)
I played at 2 events at the local shop. BBE was AMAZING. But so have been Huntmaster and sometimes even more so. (Though I'm confident that BBE is a better card more often. I'm not proposing to cut her, I'm just a bit unsure about cutting huntmaster altogether)
So, to directly reply:
-> I'm running 3 or 4 Ioks.
-> I hit IOK when my opponent had no hand mostly vs. Abzan midrange and variations of UW control when my opponent either had nothing in hand, or just that one Cryptic Command that couldnt be targeted anyway, or even sometimes I would have hit them, but they'd just cast their snap or instant so that their hand were empty by the time IOK could hit. (Jund and Abzan seems to kinda cancel each other out as both decks have more answers than threats.)
-> The main problem hasnt been hitting IOK or Discard in general as much as removal though. My deck seems to almost always cancel out other midrange/control decks in regards of threats and everything becomes a top-deck war. At which point, either we end up with no board presence or with just manlands as threats. At which point, hitting Decay, Terminate, Push, etc. Is pointless and that's a very high percentage of cards of the deck. (Bolt is fine I guess, but hitting my opponent for 3 damage isnt really a big deal unless he's already low and endangered.) Yes, there has been times BBE brought me a Goyf or even a Lili and the vallue was huge. But I had more times her failling me by turning herself into a 4mana 3/2haste when my opponent is topdecking Snapcasters and Commands to kick my ass.
I've been liking HUntmaster in almost all match ups to be honest. vs. Burn he gives me a chump blocker and +2 health while threatening to flip and become an even bigger blocker while killing off a goblin guide or a eidolon without me having to cast spells. It has saved my ass many times.
vs. Control/Midrange he is a certain 2 for 1, as my opponent NEEDS to kill him off but Il'l always get to keep a wolf and +2 health.
I particullarly love him in the matches aforementioned. vs. Decks like UW control / Abzan / Mirror / Because he's the perfect card for me to hold back until things become a top-deck war. Since as long as it lasts a little bit, I'll defnetly take over.
The only times I really look at him and frown is when I'm facing something like Tron or Valakut decks where I need to clock my opponent ASAP and huntmaster isnt that agressive until it flips... but even then, he's not a "completelly dead" although I'd sideboard him out in those matches (That are rare at my local.)
What is really pushing me towards wanting to try more than just 4BBE's in the 4cc curve is the fact that I'm facing so many decks that require me to have good "2 for 1s" cards (Which is usually what determines who wins when midrange/control faces midrange/control) that I'm really wanting something "more" than just the 4BBE's. Huntmaster is the first thing that comes to mind to me because of how well it has served me until now, how it works well in the grind, and how it also works well against the "other half" of my local's meta, which consists of Burns, humans, and other types of agressive decks. Never tried Hazoret, but I can see her being very effective too. I just fear for how almost all the decks I mentioned have white in them, and a bit worried about her being a weak card when I'm having to fight for survival vs. agression.
So I agree 100% vs. Burn and the likes of it Collective Brutality is amazing, but HUntmaster -seems- to serve the double purpose of being a good card to have both Vs. The control/midranges aswell as Vs. The agressive decks.
Is it too crazy running 4BBE +1Huntmaster, 3BBE +2Huntmasters or 4BBE + 2 Hunts ? (in a 25 lands build)
My local meta is crawling with Burn, Merfolks, and overall Grindy matchups.
I'm really missing HUntmaster's reliability and the lifegain/extra chump or evne more-so his ability to take over.
Yeah I guess so. BBE is better in grindy matchups. If you really want Huntmaster that hard, play him in the SB.
Against Burn our best card is Collective Brutality. Up that card if you fear it.
A recent addition to grinding is Hazoret, which is really a surprizingly powerful threat. Especially in the Jund mirror. Try that out as well.
Merfolk is a good matchup for us, and Huntmaster is not really particularly amazing against them.
I'm loving BBE. but in the grindy match ups I've had latelly I found it subpar to Huntmaster (At least in the short experience I had with it so far)
Too often hitting IOK against decks that only have Commands or nothing at all in hand or removal against decks whose only creatures in the board are among their lands...
My huntmaster if it'd last a single turn on the board was GG most of the time, feels like both BBE often is a 2 for 1, and sometimes a 3 for 1 if you're really lucky. While huntmaster always is a 2 for 1 and sometimes a -as many as I can count- for one if it lasts.
Not saying huntmaster > bbe by any chance. BBe is way better thanks to the more instant vallue, but I'm not sure I'm liking it MORE than huntmaster against some matchups
Oh, and if I were to try Hazoret, what build you'd recommend ? 4 BBE's + 1 hazoret ? 4 + 2 is do-able in a 25 lands deck ? or 6 "4cc creatures" is too heavy ?
I'm loving BBE. but in the grindy match ups I've had latelly I found it subpar to Huntmaster (At least in the short experience I had with it so far)
Too often hitting IOK against decks that only have Commands or nothing at all in hand or removal against decks whose only creatures in the board are among their lands...
My huntmaster if it'd last a single turn on the board was GG most of the time, feels like both BBE often is a 2 for 1, and sometimes a 3 for 1 if you're really lucky. While huntmaster always is a 2 for 1 and sometimes a -as many as I can count- for one if it lasts.
Not saying huntmaster > bbe by any chance. BBe is way better thanks to the more instant vallue, but I'm not sure I'm liking it MORE than huntmaster against some matchups
Is it too crazy running 4BBE +1Huntmaster, 3BBE +2Huntmasters or 4BBE + 2 Hunts ? (in a 25 lands build)
My local meta is crawling with Burn, Merfolks, and overall Grindy-Control matchups.
BBE is amazing and I feel a lot stronger with it in my deck, but I've been findng myself missing my huntmaster that has won me so many matches. Specially vs. Decks that I often find me and themselves with no creatures/no cards and BBE ends up missing too much unless I hit a creature or a lili.
I'm really missing HUntmaster's reliability and the lifegain/extra chump and even more-so his ability to take over.
(I've cnsidered kitchen finks main-deck for that. But most of the control/midrange decks aforementioned are white.)
Sorry for stepping off topic a little, but I need help building my deck:
So, I just recently got back into playing Modern thanks to the BBE unban (I absolutelly always loved Jund, and I kind of stepped off from Modern for sometime and the BBE unban seemed good enough reason to swipe off the dirt of my goyfs and bobs!)
One of my favorite cards on my jund has always been Huntmaster of the Fells, and I always used to run 2x of them on my Deck. (It was by far one of the most effective cards in my local meta, as we have A TON of burn decks, a couple merfolks, and overall midrange, grindy decks. It was always at the very worse bringing me 2 for 1's at the late game, saving me from lethals and more often than not, winning single-handedly.)
Now, with BBE's unban, I set my Huntmasters aside and attempted running a 4x BBE build / 25 lands similar to Reid Duke's with some minor modifications, I went 2-2 in last sunday's event. Having lost to Burn and Merfolk while winning vs. Death's Shadow and a veryyyyy narrow win vs. Jeskai Control (That honestly, was just achieved through luck mostly.)
And then this wednesday I played with a "kinda weird" list by running 4x BBE's and 1x Huntmaster main. HUntmaster saved me once, but I found that running only 1x of it makes it too rare to see it. All the while, BBE's seem too good a card to run less than 4x as everyone seems to be recommending. To be honest, with the matchups I've been facing, sometimes I'm finding myself wishing my BBE's were huntmasters. (Even though I reckon BBE is just amazing and usually hits like a truck when I get it. Just not feeling as "safe" as Huntmaster with it, specially when there are some rare moments where my BBE's turned into sad 4 mana - 3/2 haste cards. Whereas my Huntmaster I could always count on its vallue.)
So, my question is:
If I were to run more than 1x Huntmaster nowadays, what should I do ? I'm really wanting to attempt 2x Hunts again.
4x BBE + 2 Hunts is too crazy for a 25 mana deck? (I'm only running 7x 3 mana drops: 3x Oldlili 1x newlili 1x pulse 2x kolaghans)
3x BBE + 2 Hunts is not worth it as BBE is amazing?
(Once again, take into consideration that my shop's meta is very intense in Burn and Grind decks.)
(Oh, and i'm already running Kitchen Finks on my sideboard. But not in main. I've considered using it to try to replace Huntmaster's "job" but there are too many Path to Exiles running around at the moment at the local meta (lots of Abzan and Jeskai/UW variations, plus while he's good at stabilizing my health, I dont feel like he is as flexible as HUntmaster, which can take over games sometimes and also deal tons of damage if it flips while killing off small bodies like enemy merfolks or goblins.)
Obs: Another little thing I'm a little conflicted over is how many discards should I run now with BBE's entrance. I kind of missed running 6/7 discards as having a IOK or Seize in your opening hand is always amazing. But at the same time, I can see how a BBE into Discard is not so great. I'd ask for recommendations on that, but I can tell everyone is still a bit conflicted on that regard aswell. Jund is still getting balanced out between "how much we want to work around BBE" and "how much we want to keep the formula that always works"
I was tinkering and testing with a friend through this afternoon, and we had the idea of attempting a Jund build with 24 lands and running one single "Traverse the Ulvenwald".
The idea behind it: We were a bit torn between 24 or 25 lands (As a lot of people seem to be). 25 seems right when running 4+ 4cc cards, as we need to consistently have 4 lands by turn 4/5 since the likeability of having a 4cc card to drop is very high. But at the same time, 25 lands means more flooding, which was already something common with Jund (And even running manlands, its never a guarantee that we'll have them to mana sink)
So, the idea with Traverse was make it so that running 24 lands + it would mean that if we'd get the Traverse at around turn 5+ we'd already have delirium and thus be able to tutor a Bloodbraid elf or some other powerful/needed creature (Maybe something we've put from SB ? Like a HUntmaster/Fulminator/Hazoret)and if we'd have the Traverse early before that ammount of lands, it'd allow us to make sure we can hit our much needed 4/5 lands for Bloodbraids and Ravines. Now, how consistently can this be achieved?
We played the entire afternoon during what I believe was 15~ ish matches. We played Jund vs. Jeskai Control and later Jund. vs Jund.
My Traverse got used 5 times, and every single one of them it worked.
About twice it was the extra land I needed to reach the necessary ammount of lands, and every other time when I got it I had Delirium and fetched for a HUntmaster or a Bloodbraid. Only in one match did the Traverse appear on my opening hand, and it was a hand that seemed like it already had the lands I'd need (I think I had about 3 lands already in the hand.) After cracking a fetch, using a IOK, by turn 3 or 4 having my creature killed and killing my opponent's creature with a terminate, at around turn 5~6 just saving my Traverse I could fetch a very nice Bloodbraid from it. All it took was a little patience with it. I think that in a deck that runs ~8 Sorceries, ~5 planeswalkers ~9ish Instants ~15 creatures and a ton of fetches, its very consistent at achieving Delirium.
Anyway, just thought I'd talk about it, defnetly will take A LOT more trying to find out if its worth it indeed, after all, its just a 1-of in the deck, so it doesnt show up often. But on paper and, so far, on practice, it has worked wonders. (Maybe I was just lucky it didnt flop not once?)
On paper, the benefits from it would be:
-> Less likeability to flood without having to risk playing with less potential mana, as Traverse counts as a land in a way, but also counts as a creature when it works.
-> Tutoring a creature is pretty powerful in Jund, as Bloodbraid elf can have such a huge impact.
-> Makes other potential creature drops that may come from our SB super good too, even as a "1 of" and more likelly to be found at the needed time:
-Huntmasters excell at the kind of board state that Bloodbraid is most likelly to fail: Your opponent has no hand and no board, meaning there is a HUGE chance your BBE will flop. Whereas a Huntmaster would probably take over the game from there.
-Hazoret as a potential finisher during a grindy match that you can end by hitting hard and fast. You can tutor it when you have plenty of things to discard for damage or when you're already short on your hand and can go on beating with it.
-Grabbing fulminator mages is huge against combo decks and tron in general that we may struggle against (And indeed, against a lot of decks in general.) same with Grabbing Scoozes vs. Decks that are interacting with their graveyard, for instance.
->Even if you're short in mana and needing an instant clock on your opponent, you can fetch a Goyf and drop it right away to increase the damage output
-> Allows us to grab basic lands to save us from FoR, BloodMoons, Taxes, etc.
IDK, I'm really considering attempting this 24 lands + 1 Traverse build next wednesday at the shop. I really loved it during this little "test". Having a 1 extra chance of drawing the creature you need while still balancing out your mana-base felt great.
Yeah, its what I'm thinking too.
Bit worried about the mana-curve.
I'm thinking trying 4BBE's +1Huntmaster main (while bringing another on the side, or maybe a Hazoret on the side.) And see how that goes.
With 25 lands I'm finding very abundant lands and pretty consistently hitting 4 lands turn 4, so maybe 5 4cc isnt so bad.
(Sometimes I'm flooding too. lol. But 4 manlands helps at making that not-so-bad and maybe if I run 5 4cc drops my mid/late-game top-decks get better. So Even if I'm drawing too many lands, it gets somewhat balanced out by the fact I'm drawing "2for1" cards more often.)
I might add, I'm not running as many 3cc cards as most, so maybe that balances out a bit too.
I'll experiment, I guess.
And yeah, BBE is never useless since at the very worst she is a 3/2 with haste, which isnt that awful. But a "bad-hitting" BBE still is a weak drop in comparison to a Huntmaster, which is why there indeed are times I'm like "aww man, I miss my hunts"
Alright! Sorry for the lack of context.
I attempted something very close to Reid's list (but with 3IOK +1Seize instead of 4IOK's... Idk, running no seizes felt weird to me I guess. Oh, also I dont run 5 planeswalkers, I use 3 Veils + 1 Last hope. [So you could say that my deck only has 7 3cc cards as in 2 kolaghans, 1 pulse, 4 lilies.)
I played at 2 events at the local shop. BBE was AMAZING. But so have been Huntmaster and sometimes even more so. (Though I'm confident that BBE is a better card more often. I'm not proposing to cut her, I'm just a bit unsure about cutting huntmaster altogether)
So, to directly reply:
-> I'm running 3 or 4 Ioks.
-> I hit IOK when my opponent had no hand mostly vs. Abzan midrange and variations of UW control when my opponent either had nothing in hand, or just that one Cryptic Command that couldnt be targeted anyway, or even sometimes I would have hit them, but they'd just cast their snap or instant so that their hand were empty by the time IOK could hit. (Jund and Abzan seems to kinda cancel each other out as both decks have more answers than threats.)
-> The main problem hasnt been hitting IOK or Discard in general as much as removal though. My deck seems to almost always cancel out other midrange/control decks in regards of threats and everything becomes a top-deck war. At which point, either we end up with no board presence or with just manlands as threats. At which point, hitting Decay, Terminate, Push, etc. Is pointless and that's a very high percentage of cards of the deck. (Bolt is fine I guess, but hitting my opponent for 3 damage isnt really a big deal unless he's already low and endangered.) Yes, there has been times BBE brought me a Goyf or even a Lili and the vallue was huge. But I had more times her failling me by turning herself into a 4mana 3/2haste when my opponent is topdecking Snapcasters and Commands to kick my ass.
I've been liking HUntmaster in almost all match ups to be honest. vs. Burn he gives me a chump blocker and +2 health while threatening to flip and become an even bigger blocker while killing off a goblin guide or a eidolon without me having to cast spells. It has saved my ass many times.
vs. Control/Midrange he is a certain 2 for 1, as my opponent NEEDS to kill him off but Il'l always get to keep a wolf and +2 health.
I particullarly love him in the matches aforementioned. vs. Decks like UW control / Abzan / Mirror / Because he's the perfect card for me to hold back until things become a top-deck war. Since as long as it lasts a little bit, I'll defnetly take over.
The only times I really look at him and frown is when I'm facing something like Tron or Valakut decks where I need to clock my opponent ASAP and huntmaster isnt that agressive until it flips... but even then, he's not a "completelly dead" although I'd sideboard him out in those matches (That are rare at my local.)
What is really pushing me towards wanting to try more than just 4BBE's in the 4cc curve is the fact that I'm facing so many decks that require me to have good "2 for 1s" cards (Which is usually what determines who wins when midrange/control faces midrange/control) that I'm really wanting something "more" than just the 4BBE's. Huntmaster is the first thing that comes to mind to me because of how well it has served me until now, how it works well in the grind, and how it also works well against the "other half" of my local's meta, which consists of Burns, humans, and other types of agressive decks. Never tried Hazoret, but I can see her being very effective too. I just fear for how almost all the decks I mentioned have white in them, and a bit worried about her being a weak card when I'm having to fight for survival vs. agression.
So I agree 100% vs. Burn and the likes of it Collective Brutality is amazing, but HUntmaster -seems- to serve the double purpose of being a good card to have both Vs. The control/midranges aswell as Vs. The agressive decks.
I'm loving BBE. but in the grindy match ups I've had latelly I found it subpar to Huntmaster (At least in the short experience I had with it so far)
Too often hitting IOK against decks that only have Commands or nothing at all in hand or removal against decks whose only creatures in the board are among their lands...
My huntmaster if it'd last a single turn on the board was GG most of the time, feels like both BBE often is a 2 for 1, and sometimes a 3 for 1 if you're really lucky. While huntmaster always is a 2 for 1 and sometimes a -as many as I can count- for one if it lasts.
Not saying huntmaster > bbe by any chance. BBe is way better thanks to the more instant vallue, but I'm not sure I'm liking it MORE than huntmaster against some matchups
Oh, and if I were to try Hazoret, what build you'd recommend ? 4 BBE's + 1 hazoret ? 4 + 2 is do-able in a 25 lands deck ? or 6 "4cc creatures" is too heavy ?
Too often hitting IOK against decks that only have Commands or nothing at all in hand or removal against decks whose only creatures in the board are among their lands...
My huntmaster if it'd last a single turn on the board was GG most of the time, feels like both BBE often is a 2 for 1, and sometimes a 3 for 1 if you're really lucky. While huntmaster always is a 2 for 1 and sometimes a -as many as I can count- for one if it lasts.
Not saying huntmaster > bbe by any chance. BBe is way better thanks to the more instant vallue, but I'm not sure I'm liking it MORE than huntmaster against some matchups
My local meta is crawling with Burn, Merfolks, and overall Grindy-Control matchups.
BBE is amazing and I feel a lot stronger with it in my deck, but I've been findng myself missing my huntmaster that has won me so many matches. Specially vs. Decks that I often find me and themselves with no creatures/no cards and BBE ends up missing too much unless I hit a creature or a lili.
I'm really missing HUntmaster's reliability and the lifegain/extra chump and even more-so his ability to take over.
(I've cnsidered kitchen finks main-deck for that. But most of the control/midrange decks aforementioned are white.)
So, I just recently got back into playing Modern thanks to the BBE unban (I absolutelly always loved Jund, and I kind of stepped off from Modern for sometime and the BBE unban seemed good enough reason to swipe off the dirt of my goyfs and bobs!)
One of my favorite cards on my jund has always been Huntmaster of the Fells, and I always used to run 2x of them on my Deck. (It was by far one of the most effective cards in my local meta, as we have A TON of burn decks, a couple merfolks, and overall midrange, grindy decks. It was always at the very worse bringing me 2 for 1's at the late game, saving me from lethals and more often than not, winning single-handedly.)
Now, with BBE's unban, I set my Huntmasters aside and attempted running a 4x BBE build / 25 lands similar to Reid Duke's with some minor modifications, I went 2-2 in last sunday's event. Having lost to Burn and Merfolk while winning vs. Death's Shadow and a veryyyyy narrow win vs. Jeskai Control (That honestly, was just achieved through luck mostly.)
And then this wednesday I played with a "kinda weird" list by running 4x BBE's and 1x Huntmaster main. HUntmaster saved me once, but I found that running only 1x of it makes it too rare to see it. All the while, BBE's seem too good a card to run less than 4x as everyone seems to be recommending. To be honest, with the matchups I've been facing, sometimes I'm finding myself wishing my BBE's were huntmasters. (Even though I reckon BBE is just amazing and usually hits like a truck when I get it. Just not feeling as "safe" as Huntmaster with it, specially when there are some rare moments where my BBE's turned into sad 4 mana - 3/2 haste cards. Whereas my Huntmaster I could always count on its vallue.)
So, my question is:
If I were to run more than 1x Huntmaster nowadays, what should I do ? I'm really wanting to attempt 2x Hunts again.
4x BBE + 2 Hunts is too crazy for a 25 mana deck? (I'm only running 7x 3 mana drops: 3x Oldlili 1x newlili 1x pulse 2x kolaghans)
3x BBE + 2 Hunts is not worth it as BBE is amazing?
(Once again, take into consideration that my shop's meta is very intense in Burn and Grind decks.)
(Oh, and i'm already running Kitchen Finks on my sideboard. But not in main. I've considered using it to try to replace Huntmaster's "job" but there are too many Path to Exiles running around at the moment at the local meta (lots of Abzan and Jeskai/UW variations, plus while he's good at stabilizing my health, I dont feel like he is as flexible as HUntmaster, which can take over games sometimes and also deal tons of damage if it flips while killing off small bodies like enemy merfolks or goblins.)
Obs: Another little thing I'm a little conflicted over is how many discards should I run now with BBE's entrance. I kind of missed running 6/7 discards as having a IOK or Seize in your opening hand is always amazing. But at the same time, I can see how a BBE into Discard is not so great. I'd ask for recommendations on that, but I can tell everyone is still a bit conflicted on that regard aswell. Jund is still getting balanced out between "how much we want to work around BBE" and "how much we want to keep the formula that always works"