Kudzu is not a trap at all, i've tried it and i think they are better than goyf in a landfall heavy list. This deck has few ways to proactively grow goyf, but we do for vinelasher kudzu and steppe lynx. Also when we have dork on turn one we can play kudzu with the dork and our first land and then play our second land and get a bonus trigger, while having a mana open for lynx/path/dispel from the board/whatever else. i feel like this deck wants a good number of turn 2 play for hands without dorks, between 8 or 10 i'd say, and i've been happy with kudzu so far. Having landfall creatures also makes comboing with low life total possible, which dosn't come up often but from time to time it is relevant.
The only issue I take here is that a turn 2 Vinelasher =/= a turn 10 vinelasher. If you can protect your vinelasher throughout the game, then yes, it can become massive. The issue is Vinelasher is a horrible top deck, just as a steppe lynx is a bad top deck. Goyf and KotR are always big players whenever they come into play.
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So I would like to lead that I am very new to magic. I was hoping to get some seasoned opinions on the following cards:
vines of vastwood: can protect your kotr and or on another creature if need the extra damage. Seems very similar to simic charm
Great card in infect, and I debated this in the board. However, I found that there are other cards that are more important/useful that take its space. The idea to protect the combo is instant speed tutoring Sejiri Steppe, and rarely do you have 2xG available.
Yes. Prevents counters and such, but doesn't provide 2-for-1 advantage. If your opponent isn't running sweepers, Voice can take over a game.
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warden of the first tree[/card]: for an agro deck and can pump him up if we have extra mana
Here is the problem with him. He seems cool and all, but he doesn't pass the bolt test and requires a good deal of mana to get to a functional point. If he pupped to a 4/4 (like FIgure of Destiny) then he might be something.
Great SB card. However, realize that he prevents your Collected Companys from being cast as well. If you are going to play him, think about what decks you are targeting. It hurts Junk, Grixis Delver, small parts of Jund, Twin, UWR control (prevents most walkers and sweepers). From that list most decks aren't terribly crippled by him, but blocking sweepers is a big thing!
Vinelasher Kudzu: instead of Lynx/nacatl. I know it's 2cmc instead of 1 but the counters would be permanent.
I thought about this card too, but it is a trap. 1/1 for 2cmc is not strong at all. If you manage to land it turn 2, how many land drops are you going to see before it starts being a threat that doesn't get bolted or chumped. 2-3 is my guess. So that means, use all your mana on turn 2 for a card that is marginally useful 3 turns later. Nacatl, is a 3/3 that swings on turn 2 for 1 mana. Lynx, is a 4/5 on that swings on turn 2 (assuming a fetch on turn 2). Vinelasher is a cool idea, but I think it is too fragile and takes too long to become a threat. Undergrowth Champion is an interesting version of Vinelasher. Entering at 2/2 is better, but on turn 3 is worse. But, and a big but, he has survivability after one land drop, and that is something to consider. You could be cute and mix it with Deprive for some tricks. Still, I think both are too slow and too cute. In general, in Modern by turn 4-5 you need to have asserted your deck strategy or blocked your opponents to win the game, and I don't think vinelasher or undergrowth do this. I am happy to be wrong though.
tunneling geopede: if we are already going red seems like an easy way to get the extra damage
3/2 for 3cmc with a very marginal land fall ability is a no go.
ajani, mentor of heroes: helps find the creature we need to make our creatures larger. Also suggesting some aura's below. Seems like this thread isn't a fan of walkers in general for this deck other than elspeth. Any reason why?
I like to apply Quandrant Theory to planeswalkers. A really great article that is mostly applied to limited, but I feel spills over to the rest of magic. Walkers typically are costly cards with fantastic powers. So if we look at when they are useful (quandrant) we can figure if we want them in our deck. Ajani is a 5cmc walker, which means he is not going to viable in the developing as he comes down generally too late. Parity, Ajani is great here. He pumps your guys, digs for answers to break parity, this is his purpose. If you are winning, he is just a win more card and does not protect your winning state. If you are losing, generally this means you have no creatures on the board, and playing a 5cmc card that does not prevent you from losing is not what you want to be doing. So, basically Ajani is only good in one board state for 5 mana, doesn't seem to be a great card here. To compare with Commune with the Gods it digs as deep, costs only 2 mana, is good in development (find your combo pieces or other creature you need), parity (same thing as ajani) and losing (can find your hate bear or detention sphere). Commune has a lot more uses and costs a lot less.
There are many Elspeth, but I am going to assume you mean Elspeth, Knight-Errant. She is a good card. Can land as early as turn 3, which makes her ok in development. If you get her down early, she is very strong in development and she can help you in parity (+3/+3 and flying is no joke on a KotR). She doesn't help when you are losing and if you are winning, she doesn't really help there either. If you look at the original, Elspeth Tirel she helps when you are losing as she can clear the board and gain life vs burn, helps a little bit in development if you can get her down turn 3 (double mana dork), but doesn't help with winning.
Just for comparison, lets look at Liliana of the Veil. She is strong in development (only costs 3cmc) as she can trash your opponents plans by discarding their hand. She is strong in winning as she helps prevent any response. She is weak in parity as she doesn't break it, but can attempt to destabilize by causing a creature sacrifice (but not your choice) and when you are losing, she can help bring you back by knocking off a big beater or destroying a hand.
shield of the oversoul: this card seems great to me. I don't understand why it doesn't get more play. Can someone please explain? We run a lot of GW which would give them +2/2 w flying and indestructible. I als am a fan of wrath of God so this would give us the option to wipe the board and still have a creature.
At 3 mana, it needs to have an effect on the board. Which it does, if it sticks, and that is what Pokken was getting at. Path to Exile see play, Terminate sees a lot more play these days, Abrupt Decay is always around and the every potent Lightning Bolt must be considered. Once you cast Shield of the Oversoul your opponent can counter with one of many ways to remove the creature or even bounce the creature back to your hand, Merfolk will do this. This results with you opponent using 1 card to get rid of 2 of yours. Your big worry about wrath effects is founded, but there are not to many of them around right now as control is less popular. As far as casting wrath yourself, that would be an oh-s**t move to save the game.
If just making a fun/casual deck not worried about legality, I saw someone mention edric, spymaster of trest. Would it be a good addition, if so what would you cut? Figured it would hit w coco and helps us find the missing combo piece
Any thoughts on more midrange w gavony township, wilt leaf liege and the addition of retreat to kazandu? Could reset kitchen finks... Would run this w courser to make sure I get the land drops.
Please be gental, I am a new to all this. Thanks for any suggestions/input
If you are playing casual, have as much fun as you can Hope that all helps.
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A bit of play testing an I think with commune the deck needs 23 lands and more blue sources. I want sun titan to work, but it might be too cute. Still needs a bit of play testing.
Did play a match against Mono-U Time Warp and got stomped. Was really fun to see that deck in action, as a random aside.
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I've been thinking more about this deck and its combo. In all variants we basically fall into the combo, like playing twin without serum visions, or remand, or cryptics. It just doesn't work. As many of us have said on here, Goyf is kind of a weak card in these decks because he is well, generally a 3/4 vanilla beater at best for 2. This deck lacks sorceries. Finding a way to dig for the combo seemed important to me. I also noticed that he more hate I hate out of the board the better I generally did.
Anyway, this got my brain juices flowing and I came up with Commune with the Gods. I think this may be the perfect card for a bant version. It does 4 things for the deck. It puts lands in the yard for KotR, it finds your combo pieces and it fills the yard with a sorcery (among other things) for the goyf. It also allows for other tech like Detention Sphere to be dug for. When combine with Witness it gives you ways to use your yard to your advantage. As a final piece of tech, 1-2 Sun titans at the top end could really keep this deck functioning as the game goes long. I am working on a deck list and will post it if it pans out.
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Amulet bloom should be a fairly easy matchup for us. I think that if you lump my Bant company and Bant Knightfall records together, I'm something like 5-0 in (paper) matches against Bloom titan.
Meddling mage should name Pimeval Titan. They are hard pressed to find an out against this. They are so narrow to draw Hive Mind that we should yield the small minority of games over to them that they both draw it and we have insufficient dorks out to pay for it. If they left Hive mind in games 2-3, they are still narrow to draw it and we should ignore that draw. Seriously: ignore hive mind. Most games you won't lose to it if they draw it, and its not worth fighting the remaining small % when they hive mind kill you turn 2.
Second, you will be able to grow your knight pretty big against their turn 4 titans by chumping a few times. I've won against multiple titans with knighting up a sejiri steppe to kill off one while pathing another. Knight seems to win the head-up fight since you can just give pro green.
Aven Mindcensor is my other tool against amulet titan (and rg tron) from the sb. Prevents all but the natural Titans.
Amulet titan is a highly favourable matchup for bant company versions of Knightfall in my experience.
Played an 8 man today and lost in round 2 to Amulet (again). Either I am really unlucky or I question how this is a great matchup for us. I lost 1-2. Game 1 I lost to Hive mind with Summoner and Pact. Game 2 I won by a turn 2 meddling mage on primetime and then combo in face of a hornet queen. Game Three I have to face down 3 titans. I manage to counter one with unified will, to have him draw another and tutor another with tolaria into summoner's into titan. I manage to path the second, but the third just swings away as a 8/6 haste, double strike. I blow up their amulets, and they dig for another one, I bolt/pyroclasm Azusa, and they seem to play 2 blooms back to back. No matter if I put a lot of pressure on them, or try to control their game plan, it doesn't seem to be enough without hand destruction or comboing off immediately.
I board in 2 unified wills, dromoka's, 2 aven mindcensors and 2 meddling mages. Taking out 2 Scooze, 3 geist, 1 bolt and 1 CoCo. I am not sure what else to do against them, except pray I get a turn 3 combo hand and hope they don't go off sooner.
Incidentally I won against Jund in the most stupid way possible round 1. Game 1, we trade blows and he gets a 4/5 goyf on the board and swings me down to 4, while I only have a Retreat in hand. I top deck a KotR which comes in at 5/5. He has no response, and fetches down to 13. I play the retreat and learn at 4 life, I can do exactly 13 damage lol. Game 2 I get scoozed into oblivion. Game 3 I am doing well, but then he gets ahead on board with double bob's, I get 1 down, but he just gets all the removal and basically bob's himself down to 5 and then plays huntmaster. At this point I think I am effed. I draw a bolt, and decide the only way I am winning is if he reveals something large with bob. He flips balroth, and I bolt for the match. I was dead on board and had no right to win, but I will take it.
Jund was another match I felt like I needed to rely on them missing parts of their game plan. I didn't feel in control or that I was applying a lot of pressure at all.
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I'm interested in the zoo version of this deck because it seems like it has the best game plan to me and i'd prefer a more aggro / less all-in combo approach. However, I don't have any goyfs and don't intend to pay for them.
Any thoughs zoo players? Is this version viable at all without them? I'm having a hard time thinking of a decent replacement 2cmc beatstick... voice seems like the next best in colours but he definitely wants to play a longer game so I'm not sure it'd work.
Should I maybe go for an abzan liege build instead (being at the more aggressive end of the midrange spectrum)?
Goyf is the most variable card in this deck IMO. Against decks like BGx he is a monster beat stick who rapidly gets to 4/5. Against a lot of decks though, he has trouble getting bigger than 3/4. There are 2.5 reasons to play red in this deck: Lightning Bolt and Nacatl (0.5 is kessig). I think you can make a bant version that splashes for lightning bolts pretty easily. At the same time I think it is completely possible to take out 4 goyfs and replace them with 2 birds and 2 Woodland Wanderers. This will take the focus off of CoCo a bit, but with a 4c decks and mana dorks, a turn 3 6/6 vigilance trample is a thing. It also dodges hand IoK and gets around Eidolon. Won't be as fast, but 100% demands hard removal as it tramples over rhinos, fish, tasigur, 90% of goyfs, and trades with PrimeTime. Something to consider.
Eh, can't you just pay for any of the pacts except slaughter pact? Seems to close that avenue of victory down some if you ramp at all.
You can try Swan Songs in the board for bloom, as they stop everything except amulets and titan (and you can path titan). Aven Mindcensor is pretty good at stopping a lot of their game too. Disdainful stroke can be OK.
Knight up a ghost quarter can be OK.
Seems like a really bad matchup overall to me though.
Double blue is hard in Naya version. I lost one game to hive mind and then double summoners and I had a Mindcensor out in that game. I was one turn away from winning actually. He just had the cards there, but I always felt behind. I also did have a turn 2 loss as my first game in the daily. That is always fun.
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Great vids Lantern. Would love to watch some more from yourself and other testers. I watched them all and had to cringe quite a few times! You even called out the right plays then misclicked haha.
In game play CoCo was as hit and miss as expected (1 Hierarch vs Geist, Goyf and double Scooze.) This really makes CC a card I don't want to rely on to push ahead in a game or catch up. If you're already ahead, you likely want to hold it it hand in case of a sweeper etc. Overall it probably under performed, even just putting Geist in play with one in hand too.
Given the meta of that competition lightning bolt was also sub-par. Even having to make the decision to either wolf-run or bolt felt weird. The best 'Red' additional was easily Nacatl.
Shame retreat never really made a showing, although you did side it out a lot. Thalia was good from the board, as were the negates. Dromoka's would have been ok in all those matchups had it shown up too.
I think after watching that video I'm no closer to deciding on Bant vs Naya(u). All I know is that Geist should probably be included either way.
Keep it up!
I am in in the process of playing out a daily (for experience) after going 0-2 to Amulet bloom (total 1-4 in games). I started testing out the Bant version, but when I did that I found I really wanted the lightning bolts, particularly in matchups like affinity, burn and Jund. It gives that extra bit of reach or removal that I found the deck needed. Since, I have started playing the Naya version I have never combo'd lol. While playing the Bant version I combo'd back to back twice. Bant is much more combo oriented, Naya is much more aggro beat down oriented. People know how the combo works now and will aggressively remove the knight.
As for the bloom matchup, anyone have any tips on it. I just got rolled twice and never really felt like I had a good chance. I even landed a meddling mage in one game and chose Pact of Negation (3 titans had already been played). In retrospect I think the correct play was naming hive mind. Not sure how to play against this other than hope you combo. I don't have any dromoka's right now, but I think they are a must to deal with hive mind and to help pick off Azusa and Titans.
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From initial plays you can usually tell what someone is playing. Also useful game 2/3. It also draws removal away from knight.
This. It stalls out combo decks like ad nausem, living end, twin, chord decks and dealing with problem cards like Karn. While combo decks deal with MM, your beat down or combo plan is going on.
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Match 1 - Cruel Control 2-0 Game 1 - Turn 2 geist, rode it victory back up with exalted. Not much to say here Game 2 - Nacatl beats with smiter got me there. Actually pretty fuzzy on went on here, but we both got into top deck mode and my top decks were better.
Match 2 - UWR Control 1-2 Game 1 - Turn 1 hierarch which met a bolt. Turn 2 nacatl, path. Turn 3 smiter, get 8pts of damage in, followed by snap path. I respond with CoCo and get Geist and KotR and he scoops. Game 2 - I have to mulligan to 5, and he just controls the game and I just never get anything going. Game 3 - I mulligan to 6 and keep a 1 lander with Noble on top. Noble gets bolted and I just land screw and he gets ahead. The Jace flashing back verdict didn't help anything. Just couldn't get past his counters and removal.
Match 3 - Kiki Chord 1-2 Game 1 - I dislike playing this deck as it has enough high creatures and walls, that beats don't really work against him. He eventually gets the angel-kiki combo for the win. Game 2 - I get a geist working with 2 exalted behind it. He eventually removes one pridemage and when I swing with geist he flashes in an angel and kills my geist. He swings with his angel and at this point we are both 4. He has a wall of roots and 2 birds in play. I have a knight, 3/3 nacatl, meddling mage (on chord) and a voice. I swing with all, he blocks everything with a bird on the nacatl, I tutor up wolf run for the win. Game 3 - He stalls me and gets the combo, not much to say here.
Match 4 - Budget Zoo - 2-0
Nothing to say here, he never did a point of damage to me.
Thoughts
Not really impressed with voice. He didn't seem to cause any misplays and he didn't help with tempo. I put them in place of aven mindcensors (they didn't arrive in the mail yet). Meddling mage has mess up so many decks, that I want to uptime the count to 2 I think. Spellskite hasn't really shown off that much. There was Tron running around before which is why I threw in crumble, but I think I am going to take it out. Negate vs Unified is really not decided in my mind. I will continue to try unified will for now.
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The only issue I take here is that a turn 2 Vinelasher =/= a turn 10 vinelasher. If you can protect your vinelasher throughout the game, then yes, it can become massive. The issue is Vinelasher is a horrible top deck, just as a steppe lynx is a bad top deck. Goyf and KotR are always big players whenever they come into play.
Great card in infect, and I debated this in the board. However, I found that there are other cards that are more important/useful that take its space. The idea to protect the combo is instant speed tutoring Sejiri Steppe, and rarely do you have 2xG available.
Yes. Prevents counters and such, but doesn't provide 2-for-1 advantage. If your opponent isn't running sweepers, Voice can take over a game.
Here is the problem with him. He seems cool and all, but he doesn't pass the bolt test and requires a good deal of mana to get to a functional point. If he pupped to a 4/4 (like FIgure of Destiny) then he might be something.
Great SB card. However, realize that he prevents your Collected Companys from being cast as well. If you are going to play him, think about what decks you are targeting. It hurts Junk, Grixis Delver, small parts of Jund, Twin, UWR control (prevents most walkers and sweepers). From that list most decks aren't terribly crippled by him, but blocking sweepers is a big thing!
I thought about this card too, but it is a trap. 1/1 for 2cmc is not strong at all. If you manage to land it turn 2, how many land drops are you going to see before it starts being a threat that doesn't get bolted or chumped. 2-3 is my guess. So that means, use all your mana on turn 2 for a card that is marginally useful 3 turns later. Nacatl, is a 3/3 that swings on turn 2 for 1 mana. Lynx, is a 4/5 on that swings on turn 2 (assuming a fetch on turn 2). Vinelasher is a cool idea, but I think it is too fragile and takes too long to become a threat. Undergrowth Champion is an interesting version of Vinelasher. Entering at 2/2 is better, but on turn 3 is worse. But, and a big but, he has survivability after one land drop, and that is something to consider. You could be cute and mix it with Deprive for some tricks. Still, I think both are too slow and too cute. In general, in Modern by turn 4-5 you need to have asserted your deck strategy or blocked your opponents to win the game, and I don't think vinelasher or undergrowth do this. I am happy to be wrong though.
3/2 for 3cmc with a very marginal land fall ability is a no go.
I like to apply Quandrant Theory to planeswalkers. A really great article that is mostly applied to limited, but I feel spills over to the rest of magic. Walkers typically are costly cards with fantastic powers. So if we look at when they are useful (quandrant) we can figure if we want them in our deck. Ajani is a 5cmc walker, which means he is not going to viable in the developing as he comes down generally too late. Parity, Ajani is great here. He pumps your guys, digs for answers to break parity, this is his purpose. If you are winning, he is just a win more card and does not protect your winning state. If you are losing, generally this means you have no creatures on the board, and playing a 5cmc card that does not prevent you from losing is not what you want to be doing. So, basically Ajani is only good in one board state for 5 mana, doesn't seem to be a great card here. To compare with Commune with the Gods it digs as deep, costs only 2 mana, is good in development (find your combo pieces or other creature you need), parity (same thing as ajani) and losing (can find your hate bear or detention sphere). Commune has a lot more uses and costs a lot less.
There are many Elspeth, but I am going to assume you mean Elspeth, Knight-Errant. She is a good card. Can land as early as turn 3, which makes her ok in development. If you get her down early, she is very strong in development and she can help you in parity (+3/+3 and flying is no joke on a KotR). She doesn't help when you are losing and if you are winning, she doesn't really help there either. If you look at the original, Elspeth Tirel she helps when you are losing as she can clear the board and gain life vs burn, helps a little bit in development if you can get her down turn 3 (double mana dork), but doesn't help with winning.
Just for comparison, lets look at Liliana of the Veil. She is strong in development (only costs 3cmc) as she can trash your opponents plans by discarding their hand. She is strong in winning as she helps prevent any response. She is weak in parity as she doesn't break it, but can attempt to destabilize by causing a creature sacrifice (but not your choice) and when you are losing, she can help bring you back by knocking off a big beater or destroying a hand.
At 3 mana, it needs to have an effect on the board. Which it does, if it sticks, and that is what Pokken was getting at. Path to Exile see play, Terminate sees a lot more play these days, Abrupt Decay is always around and the every potent Lightning Bolt must be considered. Once you cast Shield of the Oversoul your opponent can counter with one of many ways to remove the creature or even bounce the creature back to your hand, Merfolk will do this. This results with you opponent using 1 card to get rid of 2 of yours. Your big worry about wrath effects is founded, but there are not to many of them around right now as control is less popular. As far as casting wrath yourself, that would be an oh-s**t move to save the game.
See the discussion about getting 2-for-1'd above.
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Did play a match against Mono-U Time Warp and got stomped. Was really fun to see that deck in action, as a random aside.
Anyway, this got my brain juices flowing and I came up with Commune with the Gods. I think this may be the perfect card for a bant version. It does 4 things for the deck. It puts lands in the yard for KotR, it finds your combo pieces and it fills the yard with a sorcery (among other things) for the goyf. It also allows for other tech like Detention Sphere to be dug for. When combine with Witness it gives you ways to use your yard to your advantage. As a final piece of tech, 1-2 Sun titans at the top end could really keep this deck functioning as the game goes long. I am working on a deck list and will post it if it pans out.
Played an 8 man today and lost in round 2 to Amulet (again). Either I am really unlucky or I question how this is a great matchup for us. I lost 1-2. Game 1 I lost to Hive mind with Summoner and Pact. Game 2 I won by a turn 2 meddling mage on primetime and then combo in face of a hornet queen. Game Three I have to face down 3 titans. I manage to counter one with unified will, to have him draw another and tutor another with tolaria into summoner's into titan. I manage to path the second, but the third just swings away as a 8/6 haste, double strike. I blow up their amulets, and they dig for another one, I bolt/pyroclasm Azusa, and they seem to play 2 blooms back to back. No matter if I put a lot of pressure on them, or try to control their game plan, it doesn't seem to be enough without hand destruction or comboing off immediately.
I board in 2 unified wills, dromoka's, 2 aven mindcensors and 2 meddling mages. Taking out 2 Scooze, 3 geist, 1 bolt and 1 CoCo. I am not sure what else to do against them, except pray I get a turn 3 combo hand and hope they don't go off sooner.
Incidentally I won against Jund in the most stupid way possible round 1. Game 1, we trade blows and he gets a 4/5 goyf on the board and swings me down to 4, while I only have a Retreat in hand. I top deck a KotR which comes in at 5/5. He has no response, and fetches down to 13. I play the retreat and learn at 4 life, I can do exactly 13 damage lol. Game 2 I get scoozed into oblivion. Game 3 I am doing well, but then he gets ahead on board with double bob's, I get 1 down, but he just gets all the removal and basically bob's himself down to 5 and then plays huntmaster. At this point I think I am effed. I draw a bolt, and decide the only way I am winning is if he reveals something large with bob. He flips balroth, and I bolt for the match. I was dead on board and had no right to win, but I will take it.
Jund was another match I felt like I needed to rely on them missing parts of their game plan. I didn't feel in control or that I was applying a lot of pressure at all.
Goyf is the most variable card in this deck IMO. Against decks like BGx he is a monster beat stick who rapidly gets to 4/5. Against a lot of decks though, he has trouble getting bigger than 3/4. There are 2.5 reasons to play red in this deck: Lightning Bolt and Nacatl (0.5 is kessig). I think you can make a bant version that splashes for lightning bolts pretty easily. At the same time I think it is completely possible to take out 4 goyfs and replace them with 2 birds and 2 Woodland Wanderers. This will take the focus off of CoCo a bit, but with a 4c decks and mana dorks, a turn 3 6/6 vigilance trample is a thing. It also dodges hand IoK and gets around Eidolon. Won't be as fast, but 100% demands hard removal as it tramples over rhinos, fish, tasigur, 90% of goyfs, and trades with PrimeTime. Something to consider.
Double blue is hard in Naya version. I lost one game to hive mind and then double summoners and I had a Mindcensor out in that game. I was one turn away from winning actually. He just had the cards there, but I always felt behind. I also did have a turn 2 loss as my first game in the daily. That is always fun.
I am in in the process of playing out a daily (for experience) after going 0-2 to Amulet bloom (total 1-4 in games). I started testing out the Bant version, but when I did that I found I really wanted the lightning bolts, particularly in matchups like affinity, burn and Jund. It gives that extra bit of reach or removal that I found the deck needed. Since, I have started playing the Naya version I have never combo'd lol. While playing the Bant version I combo'd back to back twice. Bant is much more combo oriented, Naya is much more aggro beat down oriented. People know how the combo works now and will aggressively remove the knight.
As for the bloom matchup, anyone have any tips on it. I just got rolled twice and never really felt like I had a good chance. I even landed a meddling mage in one game and chose Pact of Negation (3 titans had already been played). In retrospect I think the correct play was naming hive mind. Not sure how to play against this other than hope you combo. I don't have any dromoka's right now, but I think they are a must to deal with hive mind and to help pick off Azusa and Titans.
Do you mind posting your list? I am curious what your board is.
This. It stalls out combo decks like ad nausem, living end, twin, chord decks and dealing with problem cards like Karn. While combo decks deal with MM, your beat down or combo plan is going on.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells (13)
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Collected Company
1 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Meddling Mage
1 Spellskite
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Pyroclasm
2 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Unified Will
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Crumble to Dust
Match 1 - Cruel Control 2-0
Game 1 - Turn 2 geist, rode it victory back up with exalted. Not much to say here
Game 2 - Nacatl beats with smiter got me there. Actually pretty fuzzy on went on here, but we both got into top deck mode and my top decks were better.
Match 2 - UWR Control 1-2
Game 1 - Turn 1 hierarch which met a bolt. Turn 2 nacatl, path. Turn 3 smiter, get 8pts of damage in, followed by snap path. I respond with CoCo and get Geist and KotR and he scoops.
Game 2 - I have to mulligan to 5, and he just controls the game and I just never get anything going.
Game 3 - I mulligan to 6 and keep a 1 lander with Noble on top. Noble gets bolted and I just land screw and he gets ahead. The Jace flashing back verdict didn't help anything. Just couldn't get past his counters and removal.
Match 3 - Kiki Chord 1-2
Game 1 - I dislike playing this deck as it has enough high creatures and walls, that beats don't really work against him. He eventually gets the angel-kiki combo for the win.
Game 2 - I get a geist working with 2 exalted behind it. He eventually removes one pridemage and when I swing with geist he flashes in an angel and kills my geist. He swings with his angel and at this point we are both 4. He has a wall of roots and 2 birds in play. I have a knight, 3/3 nacatl, meddling mage (on chord) and a voice. I swing with all, he blocks everything with a bird on the nacatl, I tutor up wolf run for the win.
Game 3 - He stalls me and gets the combo, not much to say here.
Match 4 - Budget Zoo - 2-0
Nothing to say here, he never did a point of damage to me.
Thoughts
Not really impressed with voice. He didn't seem to cause any misplays and he didn't help with tempo. I put them in place of aven mindcensors (they didn't arrive in the mail yet). Meddling mage has mess up so many decks, that I want to uptime the count to 2 I think. Spellskite hasn't really shown off that much. There was Tron running around before which is why I threw in crumble, but I think I am going to take it out. Negate vs Unified is really not decided in my mind. I will continue to try unified will for now.