I haven't played with Crusher in a long time, but I can give him a shot over Goyf next time I play. Goyf is just a fairly big guy for an easy to use casting cost. While Goyf can get big, you don't usually need more than a 4/5 to represent a big threat and 4 card types is pretty common. The finding late game gas with Crusher is solid and outside of not having the space for him, I don't remember what I had against the card years ago.
I'm glad the 3 color list worked for you. It looks more streamlined and sounds like it worked well for you. Faithless Looting has been on of the biggest beneficial cards for Jund Loam lists. The early game filtering is important for digging for Assaults and stacking your graveyard. It is no Ponder but without access to Blue, it's about as good as it gets. It is a pretty miserable top deck but as long as Loam is online and you have lands in hand, it basically reads "Draw two cards."
2 Lightning Bolts seems really odd to me. I've always been of the opinion that you either want 4 of them or it isn't something your deck needs. It's the most efficient damage-to-mana ratio burn spell. Thoughtseize could get moved to the 'board to get the other 2 Bolts in the main. Other than that minor gripe, I really like your list.
So, I played a 5 round tournament last night with the list below. It's almost card for card Mazereon's list. I swapped the Canyon Slough for a Sejiri Steppe because I've been very underwhelmed by the cycling lands. I also swapped 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the side for 2 Rakdos Charm because I couldn't find Cages and Charm seemed like an interesting card to try out.
Round 1: vs. Merfolk 1-2 Loss
Game 1: Won the roll. I had to Inquisition on turn 2 because I had Raging Ravine and Graven Cairns in my opener. He played Vial on his turn 1 then revealed another Vial, a Lord(that I took), Master of Waves, Curse Catcher and Silvergill Adept. I proceeded to have mana troubles after he Spreading Seas'd my Ravine and I was stuck with 2 Assaults in hand and a Worm Harvest for 0 because I had seen no fetch lands.
Game 2: I stuck an Assault on turn 3 when he tapped out for a Lord on his turn 2. I proceeded to grind him out with Loam. Eventually winning by showing him 6 mana in play and a hand of 3 Loams and an Urborg for a cool 20 damage.
Game 3: I kept a hand with Anger of the Gods and wanted to bait him into over committing to the board. He had a Curse Catcher on turn 1 followed by a Lord, then another Lord. I was going to Terminate his second Lord EoT if he played a third and then Anger the following turn to stabilize at 3. Instead of a third Lord, he played two more Curse Catchers and prevented me from killing his board the following turn.
Record: 0-1
Round 2: vs. Grixis Shadow 0-2 Loss
Game 1: We bot did a solid job of killing ourselves to play our spells. I had a large Knight hit play to hold off a 5/5 Death's Shadow. He resolved a Tasigur and a second Shadow. I Pushed a Shadow and ate Tasigur on an attack but he drew a Fatal Push for the following turn, killed my Knight and then me.
Game 2: He had a pretty nutty opener of 2 Street Wraith, Germaug, Tasigur, Shadow, Serum Visions and Polluted Delta. I took Visions and put up a decent defense with some spot removal and another Knight. We got to me at 4 life and him at 6. I had drawn Assault but couldn't get the three red together to cast it and finish him off with direct damage. He Kolaghan's Commanded to return a Shadow and make me discard and I wanted to tutor Bojuka Bog in response but it was unfortunately already in my Graveyard from an earlier Dredge with Loam looking for red mana. Eventually, he drew removal and finished me off.
Record: 0-2
Round 3: bye
Record: 1-2
Round 4: vs. Bant Spirits 1-2 Loss
Game 1: I Inquisition to see 2 Engineered Explosives, Collected Company, Phantasmal Image, Mausoleum Wanderer, and 2 land. I took Wanderer then we proceeded to do nothing until turn 4 when I played Huntmaster. He CoCo'd in response and dropped in Spell Queller and Selfless Spirit. Looking at a hand with a Fatal Push. I was rather unhappy about it. I planned to wait until I hit another spot removal card to kill both but he dropped Image copying the Selfless Spirit. I drew Abrupt Decay but I was getting beat for 4 a turn with no way to get my spell back. He Quelled a Faithless Looting flashback and proceeded to beat me to death.
Game 2: I had a double Inquisition opener I took a Rest in Peace from him. He tapped out on turn 4 and I jammed an Assault into play. I got Loam rolling and there was nothing he could really do about it.
Game 3: I had spot removal for most of his early plays. He cast CoCo and dropped in two Drogskol Captains on turn 4, to which I responded with Anger of the Gods for quite a blow out. Eventually I ran out of spot removal and couldn't find an Assault. Lost to an army of fliers on turns.
Record: 1-3
Round 5: vs. UR Storm 2-1 Win
Game 1: I Inquisition'd him and pulled a Ritual from his hand. He did some digging and played a Baral as I dropped in an Assault and kept him off of creatures then resolved a large KotR. The turn before he went off I was able to do 16 damage to him but he was at 17.
Game 2: I got him with an Inquisition into Collective Brutality hand to make him discard and kill a Goblin Electromancer. I stuck an Assault and Loam'd him out before he got a hand back together.
Game 3: I mulled to 6 and kept a hand with Assault+Loam, Lands and a Leyline. He Wear//Tear'd my Assault but couldn't find an answer to Leyline (which ended up being a mistake on his part because he forgot Gifts Ungiven targets an opponent). I didn't have much action but he had no clock, so I ended up beating him to death with a Raging Ravine.
Overall Record: 2-3
Thoughts on the Deck:
-Collective Brutality was consistently awesome. Outside of whiffing against Death's Shadow once, it was typically effectively disruptive to a total blowout.
-Shadow of the Grave was a dead card 95% of the time and the one time it would have been live, I didn't have the mana to cast it. After a couple games, I was boarding it out in almost every match up. I don't think the deck really needs it to be competitive.
-The mana base was the largest source of trouble for me. Either I was doing 8-10 damage to myself every game, failing to hit 3 red on turn 3 because I had too many basics/utility lands, or milled out lands I needed to fetch for to hit correct colors. The mana costs on all the different cards made plays without taking a ton of damage almost impossible. Without aggressive mulling or godly luck, I don't know how I was supposed to avoid the problems I was having.
-Knight of the Reliquary was decent but mainly just a big body to throw in front of dudes. I think it only connected in one game. There was a turn against UR Storm where I was waiting for him to Empty the Warrens and I could give Ravine Prot Red with Steppe but my opponent just conceded the game. It always felt fairly underwhelming in play and drawing him never really felt like an out for any game I was in.
-Not having 4 Assault felt very bad. I only saw Vortex in one game but I only had one or two Red mana available in a turn and just never got to kill anything relevant. Except for being 1 point short vs UR Storm, if I resolved Assault and it didn't immediately die, I won the game. It's our best card and I don't like playing less than 4 of it.
-The removal suite felt awkward. I kept wanting to see Lightning Bolt. Push and Terminate are fine but with Death's Shadow decks running around, having some extra reach would be nice. Having a few more board wipes would be nice too. Trading 1-for-1 is ok for awhile but eventually you want to get some card advantage over your opponent.
-Leyline of Sanctity was awesome in the match up where it mattered and I never needed Timely Reinforcements. These are definitely solid sideboard cards and can be game winning spells.
Anyways, what I'm building towards is that the white splash felt completely unnecessary and underwhelming. The games where I could disrupt the opponent, then resolve Assault on time and follow it up with Loam and value spells all went exceptionally well. Knight wasn't bad but it didn't really do anything that Tarmogoyf couldn't have done but at a much higher cost. Without giving the deck more of a reason to run white (for example, Lightning Helix,Path to Exile, Unburial Rites, any of the hatebears) I can't see the justification for the splash. It felt like the deck was working against itself the whole time. I had a hand with Urborg, a forest and a filter with Assault, Looting, Push and Inquisition. So I kept it because it does things but it was just awkward and forced me to play turn 2 by wasting a mana and then be incapable of casting Assault on turn 3. I could have potentially draw out of it but the hands where I had Jund shocks and fetches felt so much more fluid and effective. I could actually play around my opponent when the colors worked.
I know you said you can't afford Goyfs but I think Countryside Crusher would be functional enough in place of Knight and make the mana work much better for you. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on your deck or your playstyle. I just had such a difficult time making the deck do what it was trying to do. I think if you gave a straight Jund Loam list a try you'd find it to work more effective than the list you're currently running. Having a stronger focus on the core power houses of the deck supported by a mild disruption and removal suite with a consistent mana base would be a better launching point than trying to make a 4 color splash list work. The mana requirements are already extremely intensive for a 3 color deck.
So going forward, I'd either recommend cutting the white splash and trying to make a 3 color list work or really dial in what your cards require of your mana base and giving that an extreme overhaul. You'd need to up the number of fetches to at least 10, drop a handful of the utility lands for more duals, pick 2 of the most important basics to keep in the deck and ditch the rest, probably get another filter in there, and make sure that there are multiple ways that you can cast a variety of opening hands. Think about the order you are most likely going to cast your cards, how those plays lead in to your future potential plays and how you can consistently make your best options available to you when you need them. I don't think this is impossible to do but I do think it is an extremely difficult task to take on and that you can solve a lot of these problems by modifying your card choices and streamlining the deck more.
Assault Loam is a flexible deck and is capable of doing a wide variety of things but it can't do everything.
Welcome to the thread Existenz. I tend to have pretty good success with my RUG build, I've gone 3-1 at every modern tournament I've played with it in since picking magic back up.
I tried Izzet Charm a long time ago and always found it to be underwhelming. I liked having the option of instant speed Faithless Looting and all the modes are solid. I just found deciding when to pull the trigger on a mode to be too open ended. So I was wasting turns doing nothing or Looting EoT and getting punished for it later on because I didn't have a counter or burn. I found having the individual cards made lines of play easier to decide on and generally more cost effective on any given turn.
I haven't played with Tireless Tracker but he seems solid with fetch lands and sitting on some Clues doesn't sound bad. I don't what he would slot in over but it's probably worth testing out.
Flame Jab is a solid card and works as a decent filler until you can get an Assault in play. It ends up being just on the verge of played in the deck for most people. There are a few too many good cards that can work in the deck and decent filler ends up getting cut. If you are playing a Young Pyromancer style build, the Retrace cards become very good. Generating a 1/1 and pinging something for 1 for R is not bad.
Kefnet the Mindful seems overcosted and underwhelming. I don't normally have a full grip until I'm already in a winning position. So he's basically an enchantment with a mediocre 4 mana ability. There are better cards to be running in the deck than this.
I left the Cage in the sideboard because I figured you had a meta call where it was good. It could easily be replaced with something else.
After losing every game I resolved a Molten Vortex in, I stopped running it. I tend to get 4-5 lands in play. So I can cast Loam a couple times or Loam+Counter. I never had the mana available to make Vortex good enough. Assault is harder to cast but significantly better. Also, cutting the 4-of's in my list down by 1 is just going to make it more inconsistent. I could see replacing Keranos with Huntmaster but jamming Worm Harvest in without adjusting the mana base sounds really bad. My deck wasn't meant to do triple Green. I'm glad you had fun with what you played though!
@Mazereon - Yeah, RUG is much more reactive than the Jund builds. A lot of telling your opponent no and waiting for a good time to stick Assault. What was the list that you ran?
The inclusion of Fatal Push sounds good. I agree with the cuts you chose. As for your manabase, I know you need Forest and Plains to interact with Knight of the Reliquary but you have way more White sources than you really need for the cost of KotR. You could probably drop Godless Shrine for a second Blood Crypt/Stomping Ground; and Rugged Prairie could be another Jund Shock land or a utility land like Bojuka Bog/Sejiri Steppe that Knight could grab.
You could also replace the Marsh Flats with a third Bloodstained Mire. The way I see it is, you ideally want something like Stomping Ground, Blood Crypt, and Sacred Foundry in play on turn 3 to be able to cast all of your spells. All of which are picked out by Mire and Wooded Foothills. You'll lose out on tutoring for your basic Plains but a 1-of tutoring for 1-of is a marginal circumstance to build around.
I don't know if Leyline of the Void is really the answer you want for Living End. It's ok, but I think having more board wipes is probably a better plan there (Keep in mind that Grafdigger's Cage doesn't actually stop Living End since it puts creatures into play from exile). Scooze and Bog are probably good enough for Dredge. Storm is a bit harder since it doesn't rely on its graveyard. Discard is going to be your best option in hopes of stalling them out long enough for you to win.
I'd try and fit 2-3 board wipes in the mainboard. Damnation is really good, as is Anger of the Gods. There will be decks that build up too wide of a board for Assault to handle in time and having a way to 3-for-1 or better the opponent is usually game deciding. Unconditional board kill is something my RUG deck could really use. Anger does a good enough job but I wish I had access to something like Wrath of God.
@inwiththenoose - I think you could follow roughly the same landbase suggestion that I just wrote about. You both are aiming for roughly the same spells. Having something like a 4/4/1-2 or 4/3/2-3 split on your fetchlands for Foothills/Mire/Verdant is going to be a consistent color smoothing base. Bob would probably be a bit too painful for your deck with the number of 3 and 4 cmc cards you're running. I'd recommend jumping up to 4 Lightning Bolt and with the other 2 slots available, maybe Young Pyromancer, Shadow of the Grave, Thoughtseize, or Raven's Crime+Flame Jab? Or some mix there in.
@inwiththenoose - I agree winmore isn't quite the right category for BoP but it's along the same lines. Where it's really good when the situation is already good and mediocre to bad otherwise. What's the list that you are currently running? I can brainstorm some possible replacements for BoP with you.
@Mazereon - I was going to ask you for your most recent list so I could try it out next time I get to play modern. Haha. I'd like to see what you're liking about the White splash.
But to answer your questions, yes the deck has problems with resolved big beaters. But I try to prevent that by countering them on the stack (or countering the spell that cheats the fatty into play). A resolved Living End is basically game over, but preventing that is generally pretty easy. Otherwise, I end up needing to trade a Goyf+Bolt or some such to regain a neutral board. Relying on Loam to offset the negative card advantage later. I haven't played against any Death Shadow decks yet, so I can't speak specifically to that match up, but it doesn't scare me currently.
I ran Faithless for a long time and it is a really good card in the deck. I like Serum Visions because I want to naturally cast every card in my deck instead of pitching them and going through 3 cards in the deck instead of 2 is a nice upside. Scry 2 is a very strong mechanic.
Yeah, I know how bonkers Leyline of Sanctity can be. Which actually you should be running 4 of it if you are going to run the card at all because it becomes so game breaking in the match ups where you want it. Lingering Souls sounds good but I don't know if the sideboard is the best place for it. If you really want a card that functions well against Burn or RDW, Timely Reinforcements does a ton of work in those match ups. Basically reading "Negate 2 Burn spells and prevent 3 attacks." However, in Jund colors, you can always run Dragon's Claw does a surprising amount of work. As does Obstinate Baloth with the upside of being good against 8 Rack decks as well.
I started playing RUG from when modern became a thing because there was so much combo and having counterspells against Storm, Twin, Living End, and other such combo decks. It feels more secure than discard and hoping to hit their combo pieces. Plus, you get to play Counterspell 2.0 with its downside being an upside, Serum Visions is a very solid way to smooth draws early on and is a 1cmc Dredge enabler, and Snapcaster Mage + Lightning Bolt is a proven combination.
Delver seems contradictory to the gameplan of the deck. Delver is more of a tempo card rather than an attrition card. I'd be interested in seeing the list that you saw because it'd have to be built fairly different to accommodate a more aggressive play style. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted big butt most of the time. I don't know what would be a reasonable substitute for it. That's the reason it's such an expensive card unfortunately. Baral, Chief of Compliance, Augur of Bolas, Moldgraf Scavenger, Omenspeaker, Scavenging Ooze, Thing in the Ice, and Young Pyromancer are all potentially ok replacements with YP being the most likely best option. The most recent Modern Master's version of Goyf are only ~$80, which seems reasonable for such a staple card and they'll only go up in price in the future. If you're considering playing Modern for years to come, it may not be a bad idea to try and scrounge trades for them.
@Mazereon - I didn't mean to say that we can't run 4 colors, just that it's taxing on the mana base, life total and to some extent limits your early game plays depending on your draws and those card's color requirements. Like, a 1-off white splash for a late game Unburial Rites is much easier to swing than trying to have access to Green, White, and Black on top of triple Red by turn 3. Especially if you're looking at cards like Abrupt Decay, Terminate, Looting/Inquisition, KotR, and Assault amidst a couple lands in your first few turns. It requires you to do some mental gymnastics to plan out how you're going to roll out your turns and what the opponent is going to do. Which is mentally straining over time and leaves you open to your opponent breaking plan and forcing you into other options.
Also, I don't see how KotR is that much different from Crusher in your latest post. I'd say KotR is a better top deck late game because its buffing ability is always active, instead of the hoops you have to go through for Crusher. Though Crusher can potentially get much bigger than KotR. But in general, they are both going to be big beaters with no real evasion. Which seemed to be the point you were making. I would concede that Knight is a better card in a vacuum, mainly because of the tutoring ability working to smooth out your mana and finding utility lands. But it comes at a pretty heavy cost, as I mentioned above. For me personally, unless KotR and your sideboard cards drastically increases your percentages against key match ups for your meta, I would consider trimming down to a more streamlined core for your deck in your primary colors and focus on making that line of play stronger.
All that being said, I do know that MtG is a game and everyone's primary goal is to have a good time while playing. So if you like playing KotR and making a 4 color mana base work, then more power to you. I don't want to come across as tearing apart something you enjoy. I'd just like you to have the most successful deck you can play and if there is reasoning you have for why the White splash is the best option, I'd be interested in hearing about it and having a discussion on that topic.
@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.
I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.
@Krond2 - Thanks for sharing your gameplay with us! Doming someone for 24 must have felt really great. I'm glad Shadow of the Grave worked out for you like that. Has it come up in other areas and been useful for you other than combo'ing out? Tough break on the Esper match up, sounds like he was playing a pretty spicy list. I'll keep in mind making sure to try and 1-shot the Death's Shadow players. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to pump their DSs more than you have to. Especially since I don't have access to Fatal Push or Aburpt Decay in my RUG list.
@mykatdied - I'd be interested to hear how testing with Collective Brutality goes. I do like the synergy it has with Loam and it seems solid enough on it's own to be of value. Without seeing a list, it's hard to recommend something that could work v. burn. My general 2-for-1 card in Green is Obstinate Baloth. You don't get the free cast against burn but a 4/4 that gains you 4 life puts a big damper on their gameplan. And it has the upside of being good against 8-Rack and Jund.
@Mazereon - I don't have a problem with KotR. I think it can lead to awkward situations where you'll feel obligated to leave lands in the 'yard to get more damage through or to have a large blocker. My playstyle with the deck is to sit on lands and build up damage over several turns so I can drop game ending damage in one go rather than pings here and there. I like having my options open and KotR pushes you into wanting lands in a specific (and basically unusable) place.
I don't know if any version of the deck is really equipped to handle 4 colors very well. I personally have a ton of trouble on the first few turns planning out my mana requirements and how that limits my plays for known cards in my hand as well as potentially drawn cards later on in the game. So, the idea Snap'ing back a Shadow of the Grave sounds enticing, I think it may be too strenuous for the mana base.
@inwiththenoose - I like Goyf as a sizeable beater and is able to hold off things I can't Bolt or Assault easily but I think Young Pyromancer would be an acceptable replacement in that slot.
What is the reason for the 4 off deprive? Any use for the land coming back to your hand?
It's a 2cmc hard counter. There is the upside with an Assault out that it turns into "Counter target spell. Deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It's been very useful more times than I can remember. It can be a bit awkward if you have to pop it turn 2 or 3 but usually if you are doing that, you're stopping a combo from going off. So you have time to rebuild a board state afterward.
@tarmotwin - I'm glad your FNM went well. I like the Grim Flayer tech. How often was he coming down as a 4/4? Did you find he was connecting often enough to warrant his inclusion over more consistent numbers on the core cards (Loam/Assault/Lands)? Also, Blood Moon in the board seems like an odd inclusion since it usually hoses our mana intensive deck. I know that you being the one playing means you get to play around it, but it isn't usually until turn 4+ that you can really swing a basic land and still hit the colors you need. What matches are you bringing it in for?
@mykatdied - Is your Young Pyromancer build similar to what I remember it being; with Smallpox and a lot of Retrace? In your current build, I think your idea of Iona is a good call. Maybe run her as a 1-of over Elesh Norn? I don't know your meta and the -2/-2 hosing may be better suited but cutting off a core color for most decks seems really good most of the time. Or maybe just replace Archfiend, since Elesh and him accomplish roughly the same thing.
@Lord Hazanko - Gifts might have some tech to it, though I'm personally a fan of playing more proactive spells rather than tutoring. Feels like wasted turns. What is the point of the white in the deck list that you posted? Sideboard options makes some sense but I think you could get a much stronger RUG manabase and run with it from there. Knight of the Reliquary can get big I guess but it forces you to play more aggressively with Assault (eg throwing lands unnecessarily into the yard to keep up Knight's size) rather than holding them for potentially more valuable situations.
Hey there everyone. It's been like a million years, but I've actually gotten some time to open up for MTG again. I made some changes to my RUG Loam deck and took it to second place of ~20 people this past weekend. How's Shadow of the Grave been working for everyone? It looks sweet. Has any one tested Tasigur, the Golden Fang out at all? He seems decent as an efficient threat with how quickly we bin things, not to mention EoT recursion with his ability.
@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.
Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.
I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.
Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.
I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter'sServantCombo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.
It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!
That's an interesting list. I don't know how well it would hold it's own against Junk though. It doesn't really stop Seige Rhino terribly well and it isn't very resistant to the attrition style game that Junk tries to play.
Hey everyone. I haven't really had time for Magic in quite awhile. I've been trying to launch a Kickstarter project and it's been eating up a ton of my time. It's great to see this thread still alive and kicking. I'll have to go back and reread a lot of the discussion I've missed. Has there been any tournament success with the deck while I've been away?
Here's the current list I have built but haven't tested out yet:
The sideboard is just kind of thrown together but the main thing I'm trying in the MB is 4-of Lightning Bolt. I kept having issues with needing some early spot removal that dealt more than 1 damage. Plus, Bolt is just a solid card. 3 Raven's Crime may be too many in favor of another Inquisition for more targeted discard. I won't really be able to test this until next week but it seems pretty solid. Basically just a Jund deck with added graveyard value.
@Ace: Boil and Sowing Salt seems like a lot of land hate for the sideboard. I don't know what your meta is like, but wouldn't a slot or 2 from those cards be more useful as other cards? I personally put Spellskite in almost all of my sideboards because it is extremely versatile in several match ups and several decks just lose to it. Also, I see what you're getting at with Brownscale but that's pretty slow and you'd have to have stabilized the game state before you'd rather be drawing a Brownscale over Loam. It just seems slow and kind of awkward, especially for being brought in against aggro decks.
I was considering retooling RUG Loam for use with Treasure Cruise. I'll have to get a list together and give it a spin. I really don't like the idea of Eidolon of the Great Revel in a Loam deck. Games usually end up being grindy. Eidolon is a game shortening card. I can only seeing that being more hindering than helpful. I second everyone else's opinion that Tombstalker is better than Hooting Mandrils in a Jund list.
I'd definitely play 4 in the Creatureless Jund lists. For the standard Jund, 3 is probably good enough. You want to hit green more often thanks to Goyf and you aren't wanting to go deep on Crime's or turn 2 Smallpox. Cairns becomes less relevant and more of a hindrance after 3 copies in that build I think. But that's just my preference.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
RUG Forever A Loam
Counter CatUWRG
RGTitan Fall
QuestSteelUW
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I'm glad the 3 color list worked for you. It looks more streamlined and sounds like it worked well for you. Faithless Looting has been on of the biggest beneficial cards for Jund Loam lists. The early game filtering is important for digging for Assaults and stacking your graveyard. It is no Ponder but without access to Blue, it's about as good as it gets. It is a pretty miserable top deck but as long as Loam is online and you have lands in hand, it basically reads "Draw two cards."
2 Lightning Bolts seems really odd to me. I've always been of the opinion that you either want 4 of them or it isn't something your deck needs. It's the most efficient damage-to-mana ratio burn spell. Thoughtseize could get moved to the 'board to get the other 2 Bolts in the main. Other than that minor gripe, I really like your list.
@Mazereon - If you really want to play a graveyard based deck with Knight of the Reliquary, there was an old Junk deck that ran Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. The intent being to self-mill and cast Knights from the graveyard. It had the spicy tech of Nameless Inversion as repreatable removal with Haakon in play. You may want to check that out. Here's the link to the old thread for you: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/543312-junk-haakon-loam
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
Enchantments:
3 Seismic Assault
1 Molten Vortex
Sorceries:
4 Life from the Loam
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Worm Harvest
Instants:
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Shadow of the Grave
Lands:
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Graven Cairns
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Round 1: vs. Merfolk 1-2 Loss
Game 1: Won the roll. I had to Inquisition on turn 2 because I had Raging Ravine and Graven Cairns in my opener. He played Vial on his turn 1 then revealed another Vial, a Lord(that I took), Master of Waves, Curse Catcher and Silvergill Adept. I proceeded to have mana troubles after he Spreading Seas'd my Ravine and I was stuck with 2 Assaults in hand and a Worm Harvest for 0 because I had seen no fetch lands.
Game 2: I stuck an Assault on turn 3 when he tapped out for a Lord on his turn 2. I proceeded to grind him out with Loam. Eventually winning by showing him 6 mana in play and a hand of 3 Loams and an Urborg for a cool 20 damage.
Game 3: I kept a hand with Anger of the Gods and wanted to bait him into over committing to the board. He had a Curse Catcher on turn 1 followed by a Lord, then another Lord. I was going to Terminate his second Lord EoT if he played a third and then Anger the following turn to stabilize at 3. Instead of a third Lord, he played two more Curse Catchers and prevented me from killing his board the following turn.
Record: 0-1
Round 2: vs. Grixis Shadow 0-2 Loss
Game 1: We bot did a solid job of killing ourselves to play our spells. I had a large Knight hit play to hold off a 5/5 Death's Shadow. He resolved a Tasigur and a second Shadow. I Pushed a Shadow and ate Tasigur on an attack but he drew a Fatal Push for the following turn, killed my Knight and then me.
Game 2: He had a pretty nutty opener of 2 Street Wraith, Germaug, Tasigur, Shadow, Serum Visions and Polluted Delta. I took Visions and put up a decent defense with some spot removal and another Knight. We got to me at 4 life and him at 6. I had drawn Assault but couldn't get the three red together to cast it and finish him off with direct damage. He Kolaghan's Commanded to return a Shadow and make me discard and I wanted to tutor Bojuka Bog in response but it was unfortunately already in my Graveyard from an earlier Dredge with Loam looking for red mana. Eventually, he drew removal and finished me off.
Record: 0-2
Round 3: bye
Record: 1-2
Round 4: vs. Bant Spirits 1-2 Loss
Game 1: I Inquisition to see 2 Engineered Explosives, Collected Company, Phantasmal Image, Mausoleum Wanderer, and 2 land. I took Wanderer then we proceeded to do nothing until turn 4 when I played Huntmaster. He CoCo'd in response and dropped in Spell Queller and Selfless Spirit. Looking at a hand with a Fatal Push. I was rather unhappy about it. I planned to wait until I hit another spot removal card to kill both but he dropped Image copying the Selfless Spirit. I drew Abrupt Decay but I was getting beat for 4 a turn with no way to get my spell back. He Quelled a Faithless Looting flashback and proceeded to beat me to death.
Game 2: I had a double Inquisition opener I took a Rest in Peace from him. He tapped out on turn 4 and I jammed an Assault into play. I got Loam rolling and there was nothing he could really do about it.
Game 3: I had spot removal for most of his early plays. He cast CoCo and dropped in two Drogskol Captains on turn 4, to which I responded with Anger of the Gods for quite a blow out. Eventually I ran out of spot removal and couldn't find an Assault. Lost to an army of fliers on turns.
Record: 1-3
Round 5: vs. UR Storm 2-1 Win
Game 1: I Inquisition'd him and pulled a Ritual from his hand. He did some digging and played a Baral as I dropped in an Assault and kept him off of creatures then resolved a large KotR. The turn before he went off I was able to do 16 damage to him but he was at 17.
Game 2: I got him with an Inquisition into Collective Brutality hand to make him discard and kill a Goblin Electromancer. I stuck an Assault and Loam'd him out before he got a hand back together.
Game 3: I mulled to 6 and kept a hand with Assault+Loam, Lands and a Leyline. He Wear//Tear'd my Assault but couldn't find an answer to Leyline (which ended up being a mistake on his part because he forgot Gifts Ungiven targets an opponent). I didn't have much action but he had no clock, so I ended up beating him to death with a Raging Ravine.
Overall Record: 2-3
Thoughts on the Deck:
-Collective Brutality was consistently awesome. Outside of whiffing against Death's Shadow once, it was typically effectively disruptive to a total blowout.
-Shadow of the Grave was a dead card 95% of the time and the one time it would have been live, I didn't have the mana to cast it. After a couple games, I was boarding it out in almost every match up. I don't think the deck really needs it to be competitive.
-The mana base was the largest source of trouble for me. Either I was doing 8-10 damage to myself every game, failing to hit 3 red on turn 3 because I had too many basics/utility lands, or milled out lands I needed to fetch for to hit correct colors. The mana costs on all the different cards made plays without taking a ton of damage almost impossible. Without aggressive mulling or godly luck, I don't know how I was supposed to avoid the problems I was having.
-Knight of the Reliquary was decent but mainly just a big body to throw in front of dudes. I think it only connected in one game. There was a turn against UR Storm where I was waiting for him to Empty the Warrens and I could give Ravine Prot Red with Steppe but my opponent just conceded the game. It always felt fairly underwhelming in play and drawing him never really felt like an out for any game I was in.
-Not having 4 Assault felt very bad. I only saw Vortex in one game but I only had one or two Red mana available in a turn and just never got to kill anything relevant. Except for being 1 point short vs UR Storm, if I resolved Assault and it didn't immediately die, I won the game. It's our best card and I don't like playing less than 4 of it.
-The removal suite felt awkward. I kept wanting to see Lightning Bolt. Push and Terminate are fine but with Death's Shadow decks running around, having some extra reach would be nice. Having a few more board wipes would be nice too. Trading 1-for-1 is ok for awhile but eventually you want to get some card advantage over your opponent.
-Leyline of Sanctity was awesome in the match up where it mattered and I never needed Timely Reinforcements. These are definitely solid sideboard cards and can be game winning spells.
Anyways, what I'm building towards is that the white splash felt completely unnecessary and underwhelming. The games where I could disrupt the opponent, then resolve Assault on time and follow it up with Loam and value spells all went exceptionally well. Knight wasn't bad but it didn't really do anything that Tarmogoyf couldn't have done but at a much higher cost. Without giving the deck more of a reason to run white (for example, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Unburial Rites, any of the hatebears) I can't see the justification for the splash. It felt like the deck was working against itself the whole time. I had a hand with Urborg, a forest and a filter with Assault, Looting, Push and Inquisition. So I kept it because it does things but it was just awkward and forced me to play turn 2 by wasting a mana and then be incapable of casting Assault on turn 3. I could have potentially draw out of it but the hands where I had Jund shocks and fetches felt so much more fluid and effective. I could actually play around my opponent when the colors worked.
I know you said you can't afford Goyfs but I think Countryside Crusher would be functional enough in place of Knight and make the mana work much better for you. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on your deck or your playstyle. I just had such a difficult time making the deck do what it was trying to do. I think if you gave a straight Jund Loam list a try you'd find it to work more effective than the list you're currently running. Having a stronger focus on the core power houses of the deck supported by a mild disruption and removal suite with a consistent mana base would be a better launching point than trying to make a 4 color splash list work. The mana requirements are already extremely intensive for a 3 color deck.
So going forward, I'd either recommend cutting the white splash and trying to make a 3 color list work or really dial in what your cards require of your mana base and giving that an extreme overhaul. You'd need to up the number of fetches to at least 10, drop a handful of the utility lands for more duals, pick 2 of the most important basics to keep in the deck and ditch the rest, probably get another filter in there, and make sure that there are multiple ways that you can cast a variety of opening hands. Think about the order you are most likely going to cast your cards, how those plays lead in to your future potential plays and how you can consistently make your best options available to you when you need them. I don't think this is impossible to do but I do think it is an extremely difficult task to take on and that you can solve a lot of these problems by modifying your card choices and streamlining the deck more.
Assault Loam is a flexible deck and is capable of doing a wide variety of things but it can't do everything.
I tried Izzet Charm a long time ago and always found it to be underwhelming. I liked having the option of instant speed Faithless Looting and all the modes are solid. I just found deciding when to pull the trigger on a mode to be too open ended. So I was wasting turns doing nothing or Looting EoT and getting punished for it later on because I didn't have a counter or burn. I found having the individual cards made lines of play easier to decide on and generally more cost effective on any given turn.
I haven't played with Tireless Tracker but he seems solid with fetch lands and sitting on some Clues doesn't sound bad. I don't what he would slot in over but it's probably worth testing out.
Flame Jab is a solid card and works as a decent filler until you can get an Assault in play. It ends up being just on the verge of played in the deck for most people. There are a few too many good cards that can work in the deck and decent filler ends up getting cut. If you are playing a Young Pyromancer style build, the Retrace cards become very good. Generating a 1/1 and pinging something for 1 for R is not bad.
Kefnet the Mindful seems overcosted and underwhelming. I don't normally have a full grip until I'm already in a winning position. So he's basically an enchantment with a mediocre 4 mana ability. There are better cards to be running in the deck than this.
After losing every game I resolved a Molten Vortex in, I stopped running it. I tend to get 4-5 lands in play. So I can cast Loam a couple times or Loam+Counter. I never had the mana available to make Vortex good enough. Assault is harder to cast but significantly better. Also, cutting the 4-of's in my list down by 1 is just going to make it more inconsistent. I could see replacing Keranos with Huntmaster but jamming Worm Harvest in without adjusting the mana base sounds really bad. My deck wasn't meant to do triple Green. I'm glad you had fun with what you played though!
The inclusion of Fatal Push sounds good. I agree with the cuts you chose. As for your manabase, I know you need Forest and Plains to interact with Knight of the Reliquary but you have way more White sources than you really need for the cost of KotR. You could probably drop Godless Shrine for a second Blood Crypt/Stomping Ground; and Rugged Prairie could be another Jund Shock land or a utility land like Bojuka Bog/Sejiri Steppe that Knight could grab.
You could also replace the Marsh Flats with a third Bloodstained Mire. The way I see it is, you ideally want something like Stomping Ground, Blood Crypt, and Sacred Foundry in play on turn 3 to be able to cast all of your spells. All of which are picked out by Mire and Wooded Foothills. You'll lose out on tutoring for your basic Plains but a 1-of tutoring for 1-of is a marginal circumstance to build around.
I don't know if Leyline of the Void is really the answer you want for Living End. It's ok, but I think having more board wipes is probably a better plan there (Keep in mind that Grafdigger's Cage doesn't actually stop Living End since it puts creatures into play from exile). Scooze and Bog are probably good enough for Dredge. Storm is a bit harder since it doesn't rely on its graveyard. Discard is going to be your best option in hopes of stalling them out long enough for you to win.
A board like this (for a diverse meta) is what I'd go with for you:
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Grafdigger's Cage
I'd try and fit 2-3 board wipes in the mainboard. Damnation is really good, as is Anger of the Gods. There will be decks that build up too wide of a board for Assault to handle in time and having a way to 3-for-1 or better the opponent is usually game deciding. Unconditional board kill is something my RUG deck could really use. Anger does a good enough job but I wish I had access to something like Wrath of God.
@inwiththenoose - I think you could follow roughly the same landbase suggestion that I just wrote about. You both are aiming for roughly the same spells. Having something like a 4/4/1-2 or 4/3/2-3 split on your fetchlands for Foothills/Mire/Verdant is going to be a consistent color smoothing base. Bob would probably be a bit too painful for your deck with the number of 3 and 4 cmc cards you're running. I'd recommend jumping up to 4 Lightning Bolt and with the other 2 slots available, maybe Young Pyromancer, Shadow of the Grave, Thoughtseize, or Raven's Crime+Flame Jab? Or some mix there in.
@Mazereon - I was going to ask you for your most recent list so I could try it out next time I get to play modern. Haha. I'd like to see what you're liking about the White splash.
But to answer your questions, yes the deck has problems with resolved big beaters. But I try to prevent that by countering them on the stack (or countering the spell that cheats the fatty into play). A resolved Living End is basically game over, but preventing that is generally pretty easy. Otherwise, I end up needing to trade a Goyf+Bolt or some such to regain a neutral board. Relying on Loam to offset the negative card advantage later. I haven't played against any Death Shadow decks yet, so I can't speak specifically to that match up, but it doesn't scare me currently.
I ran Faithless for a long time and it is a really good card in the deck. I like Serum Visions because I want to naturally cast every card in my deck instead of pitching them and going through 3 cards in the deck instead of 2 is a nice upside. Scry 2 is a very strong mechanic.
I started playing RUG from when modern became a thing because there was so much combo and having counterspells against Storm, Twin, Living End, and other such combo decks. It feels more secure than discard and hoping to hit their combo pieces. Plus, you get to play Counterspell 2.0 with its downside being an upside, Serum Visions is a very solid way to smooth draws early on and is a 1cmc Dredge enabler, and Snapcaster Mage + Lightning Bolt is a proven combination.
Delver seems contradictory to the gameplan of the deck. Delver is more of a tempo card rather than an attrition card. I'd be interested in seeing the list that you saw because it'd have to be built fairly different to accommodate a more aggressive play style. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted big butt most of the time. I don't know what would be a reasonable substitute for it. That's the reason it's such an expensive card unfortunately. Baral, Chief of Compliance, Augur of Bolas, Moldgraf Scavenger, Omenspeaker, Scavenging Ooze, Thing in the Ice, and Young Pyromancer are all potentially ok replacements with YP being the most likely best option. The most recent Modern Master's version of Goyf are only ~$80, which seems reasonable for such a staple card and they'll only go up in price in the future. If you're considering playing Modern for years to come, it may not be a bad idea to try and scrounge trades for them.
Also, I don't see how KotR is that much different from Crusher in your latest post. I'd say KotR is a better top deck late game because its buffing ability is always active, instead of the hoops you have to go through for Crusher. Though Crusher can potentially get much bigger than KotR. But in general, they are both going to be big beaters with no real evasion. Which seemed to be the point you were making. I would concede that Knight is a better card in a vacuum, mainly because of the tutoring ability working to smooth out your mana and finding utility lands. But it comes at a pretty heavy cost, as I mentioned above. For me personally, unless KotR and your sideboard cards drastically increases your percentages against key match ups for your meta, I would consider trimming down to a more streamlined core for your deck in your primary colors and focus on making that line of play stronger.
All that being said, I do know that MtG is a game and everyone's primary goal is to have a good time while playing. So if you like playing KotR and making a 4 color mana base work, then more power to you. I don't want to come across as tearing apart something you enjoy. I'd just like you to have the most successful deck you can play and if there is reasoning you have for why the White splash is the best option, I'd be interested in hearing about it and having a discussion on that topic.
@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.
I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.
@Krond2 - Thanks for sharing your gameplay with us! Doming someone for 24 must have felt really great. I'm glad Shadow of the Grave worked out for you like that. Has it come up in other areas and been useful for you other than combo'ing out? Tough break on the Esper match up, sounds like he was playing a pretty spicy list. I'll keep in mind making sure to try and 1-shot the Death's Shadow players. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to pump their DSs more than you have to. Especially since I don't have access to Fatal Push or Aburpt Decay in my RUG list.
@Mazereon - I don't have a problem with KotR. I think it can lead to awkward situations where you'll feel obligated to leave lands in the 'yard to get more damage through or to have a large blocker. My playstyle with the deck is to sit on lands and build up damage over several turns so I can drop game ending damage in one go rather than pings here and there. I like having my options open and KotR pushes you into wanting lands in a specific (and basically unusable) place.
I don't know if any version of the deck is really equipped to handle 4 colors very well. I personally have a ton of trouble on the first few turns planning out my mana requirements and how that limits my plays for known cards in my hand as well as potentially drawn cards later on in the game. So, the idea Snap'ing back a Shadow of the Grave sounds enticing, I think it may be too strenuous for the mana base.
@inwiththenoose - I like Goyf as a sizeable beater and is able to hold off things I can't Bolt or Assault easily but I think Young Pyromancer would be an acceptable replacement in that slot.
It's a 2cmc hard counter. There is the upside with an Assault out that it turns into "Counter target spell. Deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It's been very useful more times than I can remember. It can be a bit awkward if you have to pop it turn 2 or 3 but usually if you are doing that, you're stopping a combo from going off. So you have time to rebuild a board state afterward.
@tarmotwin - I'm glad your FNM went well. I like the Grim Flayer tech. How often was he coming down as a 4/4? Did you find he was connecting often enough to warrant his inclusion over more consistent numbers on the core cards (Loam/Assault/Lands)? Also, Blood Moon in the board seems like an odd inclusion since it usually hoses our mana intensive deck. I know that you being the one playing means you get to play around it, but it isn't usually until turn 4+ that you can really swing a basic land and still hit the colors you need. What matches are you bringing it in for?
@mykatdied - Is your Young Pyromancer build similar to what I remember it being; with Smallpox and a lot of Retrace? In your current build, I think your idea of Iona is a good call. Maybe run her as a 1-of over Elesh Norn? I don't know your meta and the -2/-2 hosing may be better suited but cutting off a core color for most decks seems really good most of the time. Or maybe just replace Archfiend, since Elesh and him accomplish roughly the same thing.
@Lord Hazanko - Gifts might have some tech to it, though I'm personally a fan of playing more proactive spells rather than tutoring. Feels like wasted turns. What is the point of the white in the deck list that you posted? Sideboard options makes some sense but I think you could get a much stronger RUG manabase and run with it from there. Knight of the Reliquary can get big I guess but it forces you to play more aggressively with Assault (eg throwing lands unnecessarily into the yard to keep up Knight's size) rather than holding them for potentially more valuable situations.
@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.
Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Spells: 27
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Life from the Loam
4 Deprive
4 Seismic Assault
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
Lands: 25
1 Breeding Pool
2 Cascade Bluffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Spirebluff Canal
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Counterflux
2 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nature's Claim
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.
Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.
I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter's Servant Combo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.
It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!
Here's the current list I have built but haven't tested out yet:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells: 28
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Flame Jab
3 Raven's Crime
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Seismic Assault
Lands: 24
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Graven Cairns
1 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacomb
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Bow of Nylea
2 Slaughter Games
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Spellskite
1 Back to Nature
The sideboard is just kind of thrown together but the main thing I'm trying in the MB is 4-of Lightning Bolt. I kept having issues with needing some early spot removal that dealt more than 1 damage. Plus, Bolt is just a solid card. 3 Raven's Crime may be too many in favor of another Inquisition for more targeted discard. I won't really be able to test this until next week but it seems pretty solid. Basically just a Jund deck with added graveyard value.
@Ace: Boil and Sowing Salt seems like a lot of land hate for the sideboard. I don't know what your meta is like, but wouldn't a slot or 2 from those cards be more useful as other cards? I personally put Spellskite in almost all of my sideboards because it is extremely versatile in several match ups and several decks just lose to it. Also, I see what you're getting at with Brownscale but that's pretty slow and you'd have to have stabilized the game state before you'd rather be drawing a Brownscale over Loam. It just seems slow and kind of awkward, especially for being brought in against aggro decks.