After another tournament yesterday (2-2, top 4 so no entry for me), here's my considerations:
4x Remand is mandatory. It has saved me a lot of time and gained me the time to push with Geist and kill my opponent with burns.
3x Cryptic is the right number. It's always a huge card and very versatile.
I've not missed at all the Resto Angel. The Snap+Geist+Clique team is enough.
I'm happy with the side and the rest of the deck too. I've not screwed once with mana, so I'll keep my 25 lands count. And the rest of the spells seems good in the numbers. Counterflux is huge, it has saved me in a lot of bad situations.
My only concern is about Ajani. Sure, its +1 (screwing opponent's mana) and -3 are great, but as iamghost said he dies really quickly. I may try a 2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant instead, what do you suggest?
Also, I have a question: what can I do against Naya? For the 2nd time, I've lost against a turn 3 Blood Moon. After winning G1, in game 2 I had no counters for it, game 3 I fetched for a plains, but it seems that 2x Disenchant is not enough for drawing one. Lightning Helix and Bolt had gained me some turns, but in end I died anyway.
All in all, I'm liking this deck more and more. It's the 3rd tournament I pilot it, and I think I'm making some progress. Unluckily I'm the only modern player among my play group, so I can't test it as I wish.
Aside from fetching basics early game to play around blood moons, you can play cards that you can still cast even with blood moon. Some list run Batterskull. It is colorless and is pretty good vs aggro decks. Regarding which PW to choose, that would depend on your metagame. They are both good cards and have different purposes. Elspeth is very good vs aggro decks because he can constantly chump tokens and gives your Geist evasion. As for Ajani, imo, he's better against control because he can lock down permanents and eventually blow up all of your opponent's lands
What do you guys think of this list? http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=5041&d=229075 It's not very recent but it seems like a combination of what most of us want. I think someone suggested running Elspeth as a 1 of. Maybe it could work? The only change that I would probably make is cutting the 3rd cryptic for the 3rd electrolyze. Overall, the deck looks pretty solid imo.
Yes. I also agree that it is possible to drop the land count to 24 if you max out remands and cut some of your 4 drops. I know it is alright to reach 6-7 lands in a game but there were a lot of instances where I have a Geist in play, but couldn't end the game because I kept drawing blanks. I think another solution to this problem is using Izzet Charms. It counters and we can cycle away unneeded lands.
To be honest, fetchlands only increases your chance of drawing a non-land card by a bit but I get the point that it is alright to flood because we have Celestial Colonade. Maybe I'll try with 24 lands and see where this goes. It is just frustrating when you start with 1-2 threats, your opponents managed to answer them and all you draw for the rest of the game are spells and lands. I find it a bit weird because I got used to the tempo deck that do not run a lot of lands, plays a lot of cantrips and a reasonable amount of creatures. But I guess that doesn't exist in this format because the good card draws are banned.
Am I the only person who's noticing this.. The deck tends to flood a lot of lands. What do you guys think of cutting some lands and adding 1 mana cantrips. I know we don't have good cards like Ponder, but Serum Vision seems like something worth trying.
I'm trying to get into Modern, and this deck sounds really fun to play. Is it a difficult deck to pilot though?
I've been playing Jund, Domri Naya and Naya Blitz in Standard and usually have no issues choosing the right line of play, as far as I believe.
It's a bit trickier than your average aggro / midrange deck in standard. You don't run a lot of creatures in UWR, so you need to out tempo your opponent. It runs like the UWR Geist deck in standard, but has access to cheap removal and playable counterspells.
The deck is very flexible and doesn't have a lot of bad matchups, but it is not that forgiving with mistakes.
Here is my latest deck. Im curious why people do not like to play Restoration Angel. It has set up many situation where I have saved a creature or reiterated a coming into battlefield effect. It also is big enough to survive a bolt/helix and swings for 3.
Because Restoration Angel doesn't do much and is usually a 3/4 flyer for 4 mana. I know it blinks your cliques and snapcasters but I'd rather play cards that are good on its own and doesn't need other cards to make it better. At least for my case, I run Cryptics in the deck and I don't want to clog up the 4 drop so I dropped Restos in favor of Mindcensors and Thundermaws
I also asked earlier about Elspeth and It was recommended to use Ajani instead but no real reason was given. I LOVE Elspeth because she turns anything I have into a bigger threat as well as creating soldiers to turn into big threats. It just seems in the tempo game that it is the better Planeswalker and I feel Ajani is better for controlling versions.
Tbh, I never liked adding PWs in a tempo deck, but I think most players prefer Ajani because it is easier to cast and is much more flexible that Elspeth.
i think that not having a spot for a big threat (or a big avdantage making card, like sphinx's i.e.) will make the deck too less threathening and powerful. With just remands and such i am not able to win games. I control them for the first turns, then i finish removals, and they start to hit me.
It really depends on how you would like to play the deck. Here are the things that I would drop from your list.. 2 Spell Snare and 1 Sphinx's Rev. If you're not that in a hurry to kill them and want to play a bit controlling, I would go with 3 Remand, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Izzet Charm. I'll probably add a Baneslayer or a Thundermaw Hellkite if there are a lot of Lingering Souls in your area.
If you want to play aggressively, 4x Remand, 2-3 Cryptics should be enough. Just make sure you add some more cheap threats so you can constantly apply pressure.
i run 26 of them and i screw. i know it's crazy but i get stuck to the third land for 3-4 draws with a cryptic in hand or a snapcaster in hand waiting to flashback that sweet mana leak i have in my gy. I tried every possible shuffling, there is no way. it's just a problem of mine i think, since i see you guy have no problems. maybe it's a manabase thing? here are my 26 lands:
i am REALLY thinking about going down to 25 since i want another spell so badly. I will take out a tectonic edge from this list. the filter land is just SO useful when you run 2x cryptic command MB and 2x wrath of god SB.
this is the usual part of the deck, seems solid, so it's gonna stay i think. There are 2 slots that just are variable. I used to run restoration angel in them, but yeah, everybody is giving up on her and i can understand why since i don't feel her to be as effective as before. I tried Aven Mindcensor and i have been so disappointed. Now i am thinking of going 2x ajani vengeant but i really fear the deck is gonna be heavy and that 25 lands are just too few for 2x cryptics, 2x ajani and batterskull. another idea was to go 1x sphinx's revelationand 1 more light counter like remand or maybe izzet charm, or even an artifact like isochron scepter.. which build would you suggest?
I think 25 lands is the right number, but with what you are running, you probably need to play with 26 lands because your curve is pretty high. Before you add Ajani V, I would consider adding the 3rd Clique. I know it's legendary but it dies pretty quickly, so having multiples is alright. It also goes well with the tempo plan and makes Remand a lot better.
What do you guys think on Spell Pierce? It feels solid when the deck is pretty good with killing creatures aside from goyf. It protects our guys from removal and helps you with the counter war when you are running cryptics in the deck.
I think i could get away with playing 24 lands, specially if i add another cheap spell, like a 3rd copy of snare.
Thanks for sharing the list. The build seems more controlling and is threat light. Have you ever considered adding more creatures to put some more pressure? How's it doing for you?
So, on the matter of lands, how many do people here run? and how high is your curve/average cmc?
I started at 24, but after a few screws decided to go to 25. It feels good and i dont really have complaints, but if possible i would like to go back to 24 and add one more spell, just for the sake of efficiency.
Thoughts?
I think it really depends on the curve of your deck. If you run several cryptics you probably need to bump it up to 25.
Firstof all, no, he doesnt really do his job vs scapeshift, contrary to popular beleif, simply because shify runs bolt, and remand, so they can easily get rid of him while they try to combo. Specially if they know they are playing agaisnt uwr, since hes predictable.
I would prefer a counterflux vs scapeshift any day.
On the matter of GY hate, it doesnt just cover reanimator and living end strategies. Think about how much you use your GY with snapcaster, or jund/ junk use it with goyf, shaman and sometimes KOtR, and you will understand.
Making shaman a 1/2, and goyf a 0/1 really wins games.
I used to run relic, but found it wasnt enough and was too easy to play around.
In the end i decided to run RIP and just side out tiago when i need to shut down the yard, like in the mirror, against melira pod, or jund/junk. The strategy has worked so far, specially since not many people see it coming.
Hmm, I like the idea of cutting snaps and boarding in RIP against those decks. Do you have a list that I can refer to? I still can't decide how many creatures to run and what sideboard cards to play with.
I particularly dont like cryptic above 2, so i would probably replace one of those with one more mana leak. And resto angel no longer does enough for the deck, solid beaters like batterskull, baneslayer or thundermaw far outclass her. If all that fails, there is ajani or elspeth as additional threats.
Right now im trying a 3 leak 3 remand split, since many times i have wanted that leak early on to hard counter something.
Im also going back and forth between 24 and 25 lands.
Your sb seems solid, but i dont like mindsensors at all, they are way too fragile, and you have no answer for the mirror, or GY strategies, i would take those 3 out to cover those 2 match ups.
Thanks! I was also thinking of adding 1x Thundermaw and 1x Batterskull. These guys seem to fit the top end of the curve. Regarding mindcensors, why do you think it's bad? I know it's fragile, but they seem to do their job vs Scapeshift and seems decent vs Pod and Tron.
For the mirror, I only have 2 pyroclasms at the moment. I'd like to add some more, I could prolly throw in a few Phantasmal Images but it's a temporary solution since the rules will change soon. What other cards can you bring in for the mirror match? Regarding GY hate, I've never thought of having some in the deck. I might need them vs Reanimator and Living End, but these decks don't pop out a lot. What type of GY hate is best for the deck? Maybe Relic of Progenitus or Surgical Extraction?
I don't like Restoration Angel in this deck, however there are a few things that she can do:
1. Blink block a bigger creature or a weaker creature with good abilities if they misplay and attack.
2. Decent sized beater for our deck.
3. Ability to attack/block flying which others struggle with (Vendilion Clique is a one hit wonder on the blocking front ).
4. Blink to protect our Colonnades.
5. Flicker Snapcaster for a flashback spell or flicker Vendilion for the discard.
Having said that, there are other things i would rather do with that mana. The fact that she has flash makes her versatile and able to do many things for the deck however.
Other comments:
- Spell Snare depends on local meta
- I like running 3x Crptics. I have a play set but saw it too often early on with 4
- Remand allows you to keep the tempo while also replacing itself with another answer card
- In regards to leak vs snare... It depends on local meta again. I personally like snare because of the decks that people run in my area, but leak is a solid early game answer and punishes other decks for being greedy in their aggression later on.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm actually having issues balancing threat density vs spells. I'm not sure if my main deck should have 12 or 13 creatures. There are games where all I did was answer everything they play but I don't have a creature in play. Right now I have 4 remands, 1 leak and 3 cryptics. But it doesn't feel enough for the combo matchup. Should I go with 3/2/3 split? Do you think I should go down to 12 creatures and take out 2 Resto for 1 Thundermaw 1 Mana leak or maybe 2 Mindcensors?
i have the opportunity to pick up either 2x Cryptic Command [b]or[/]b] 1x Vendillion Clique (would be my second), 1x Baneslayer Angel, 1x Batterskull. the decision turns on which archetype we think is better: snap geist burn colonnade or tempo.
suggestions?
I would also go with the package with Vendilion Clique just because she's harder to find and you could easily trade it away for cryptics in case you need them.
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I got a question for everybody playing the deck. I'm pretty new with UWR Geist and I'd like to know what is the recommended creature setup for an unknown meta.
So far I'm sure with the following cards. I'm thinking of adding 2 Restoration Angel but it doesn't seem to do much aside from blinking Cliques.
Also, what about the counters? I'm seeing a lot of Remands a couple of Mana Leaks and I'm starting to see people adding Cryptic Command to their decks. It seems like a good idea because it's a good card and can be used to tap all blockers. Also, what do you guys think about Spell Snare? Is the card too narrow for tempo decks? I'm thinking of replacing Leaks with Snares since it's a hard counter and is pretty good when you're on the draw.
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Aside from fetching basics early game to play around blood moons, you can play cards that you can still cast even with blood moon. Some list run Batterskull. It is colorless and is pretty good vs aggro decks. Regarding which PW to choose, that would depend on your metagame. They are both good cards and have different purposes. Elspeth is very good vs aggro decks because he can constantly chump tokens and gives your Geist evasion. As for Ajani, imo, he's better against control because he can lock down permanents and eventually blow up all of your opponent's lands
It's a bit trickier than your average aggro / midrange deck in standard. You don't run a lot of creatures in UWR, so you need to out tempo your opponent. It runs like the UWR Geist deck in standard, but has access to cheap removal and playable counterspells.
The deck is very flexible and doesn't have a lot of bad matchups, but it is not that forgiving with mistakes.
Because Restoration Angel doesn't do much and is usually a 3/4 flyer for 4 mana. I know it blinks your cliques and snapcasters but I'd rather play cards that are good on its own and doesn't need other cards to make it better. At least for my case, I run Cryptics in the deck and I don't want to clog up the 4 drop so I dropped Restos in favor of Mindcensors and Thundermaws
Tbh, I never liked adding PWs in a tempo deck, but I think most players prefer Ajani because it is easier to cast and is much more flexible that Elspeth.
It really depends on how you would like to play the deck. Here are the things that I would drop from your list.. 2 Spell Snare and 1 Sphinx's Rev. If you're not that in a hurry to kill them and want to play a bit controlling, I would go with 3 Remand, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Izzet Charm. I'll probably add a Baneslayer or a Thundermaw Hellkite if there are a lot of Lingering Souls in your area.
If you want to play aggressively, 4x Remand, 2-3 Cryptics should be enough. Just make sure you add some more cheap threats so you can constantly apply pressure.
I think 25 lands is the right number, but with what you are running, you probably need to play with 26 lands because your curve is pretty high. Before you add Ajani V, I would consider adding the 3rd Clique. I know it's legendary but it dies pretty quickly, so having multiples is alright. It also goes well with the tempo plan and makes Remand a lot better.
What do you guys think on Spell Pierce? It feels solid when the deck is pretty good with killing creatures aside from goyf. It protects our guys from removal and helps you with the counter war when you are running cryptics in the deck.
Thanks for sharing the list. The build seems more controlling and is threat light. Have you ever considered adding more creatures to put some more pressure? How's it doing for you?
I think it really depends on the curve of your deck. If you run several cryptics you probably need to bump it up to 25.
Hmm, I like the idea of cutting snaps and boarding in RIP against those decks. Do you have a list that I can refer to? I still can't decide how many creatures to run and what sideboard cards to play with.
Thanks! I was also thinking of adding 1x Thundermaw and 1x Batterskull. These guys seem to fit the top end of the curve. Regarding mindcensors, why do you think it's bad? I know it's fragile, but they seem to do their job vs Scapeshift and seems decent vs Pod and Tron.
For the mirror, I only have 2 pyroclasms at the moment. I'd like to add some more, I could prolly throw in a few Phantasmal Images but it's a temporary solution since the rules will change soon. What other cards can you bring in for the mirror match? Regarding GY hate, I've never thought of having some in the deck. I might need them vs Reanimator and Living End, but these decks don't pop out a lot. What type of GY hate is best for the deck? Maybe Relic of Progenitus or Surgical Extraction?
Thanks for the feedback. I'm actually having issues balancing threat density vs spells. I'm not sure if my main deck should have 12 or 13 creatures. There are games where all I did was answer everything they play but I don't have a creature in play. Right now I have 4 remands, 1 leak and 3 cryptics. But it doesn't feel enough for the combo matchup. Should I go with 3/2/3 split? Do you think I should go down to 12 creatures and take out 2 Resto for 1 Thundermaw 1 Mana leak or maybe 2 Mindcensors?
4x Snapcater Mage
4x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Restoration Angel
Spells: 22
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Electrolyze
3x Path to Exile
4x Remand
3x Cryptic Command
1x Mana Leak
4x Celestial Colonade
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Arid Mesa
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Stony Silence
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Path to Exile
2x Counterflux
3x Aven Mindcensor
2x Spellskite
1x Sowing Salt
2x Pyroclasm
I'm not 100% sure with my sideboard. I might some help with that also.
I would also go with the package with Vendilion Clique just because she's harder to find and you could easily trade it away for cryptics in case you need them.
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I got a question for everybody playing the deck. I'm pretty new with UWR Geist and I'd like to know what is the recommended creature setup for an unknown meta.
So far I'm sure with the following cards. I'm thinking of adding 2 Restoration Angel but it doesn't seem to do much aside from blinking Cliques.
4x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Vendilion Clique
Also, what about the counters? I'm seeing a lot of Remands a couple of Mana Leaks and I'm starting to see people adding Cryptic Command to their decks. It seems like a good idea because it's a good card and can be used to tap all blockers. Also, what do you guys think about Spell Snare? Is the card too narrow for tempo decks? I'm thinking of replacing Leaks with Snares since it's a hard counter and is pretty good when you're on the draw.