I've always loved the "Free" Urza spells but pauper cube doesn't have the cards to support them where they are really good, which is draw go control. They're amazing when you can Snap your opponent's creature during combat and then keep up counter magic, flash in a creature, or EOT draw spell but pauper's instant speed options aren't quite there yet.
Grim Harvest is a card that seems like it would have so much upside. But I haven't seen anyone play it in so long because you have to work pretty hard to get there with it unlike Disturbed Burial or Death Denied.
Hmmm never had that problem with Grim Harvest. It should be your opponent that has to work hard to get rid of it. At instant speed, your opponent has to kill one of creatures EOT while you're tapped out to be able to get rid of it. Late game, you cast Grim Harvest EoT (opponents). On your turn, you get to attack into your opponent and if they block and kill something, you get to pay the 3 mana to get the spell back. Depending on your mana situation, you can either cast a creature or keep up 2 mana to cast it on their EOT again. If your opponent declines to kill one of your creatures, even better.
Blightning - Is this really what aggro decks want? Mind rot is awful and flame jet is awful. I honestly have no idea how good blightning is in pauper cube. Blightning shone in standard jund decks because those decks were all about getting incidental card advantage while putting on pressure. I feel like pauper aggro decks don't really care about card advantage for card advantage's sake.
Also, morgue burst is strictly for BR control! I know it's overcosted but I still love it.
I think that train of thought (the cost of two cards added into one card) actually works heavily in favor of Blightning, especially when compared to Morgue Burst. Using their lowest cost scenarios:
Blightning = Mind Rot + Lava Spike. Essentially you come out ahead -1 mana than these effects would normally cost and it comes in one card instead of 2. Morgue Burst = Raise Dead + (given the color combination) would more often than not be Chain Lightning. You are essentially paying 4 more mana than you should for the same effects while getting the value of 2 cards instead of 1.
I'm also with Al in that Mind Rot is actually a playable spell. Discard spells have always been solid in aggro strategies. Denying your opponent resources is a great way for you to falter your opponents curve/ability to deal with your curve. They have to decide between discarding their lands or the cards they were going to cast with those lands that they decided to keep. It's still a +1 in card advantage on your opponent even though it does not directly affect the board state. Tack on a "free" Lava Spike and you've got your self an incredibly solid card.
I actually really like the idea of the drafting component but I'm really not interested in playing a card that in my cube that isn't actually playable in a deck. I don't think colorless Hill Giants are going to be breaking into my cube. I think you'd be better off making a house rule to alter your drafting procedure than actually playing this card.
But, dont fall to that "cubecount matters". Even with overall only 20 artifacts, its possible to give 2-3 to each player and the drawback is huge. If it would be sacrifice Id run it.
Cube count definitely matters. It should always be considered when adding/removing cards from your cube.
I repeat myself, but I think the Shade discussion is a little bit redundant. Black has some of the best lategame options in the whole cubes (Twisted Abomination, Death Denied, Disturbed Burial, etc.) and the main problem right now is to survive the early game. Shades, for a lot of mana, that die to Fireslinger, are more contra-productive in this case.
Agreed. I think the shades are interesting cards and could warrant some testing but they don't solve the problem of getting black control to a point where it can win the game.
EDIT: Speaking of shades, which ones do you think are the best ones? Perilous Shadow should be 1st on the list for sure but I'm unsure abou the rest. Maybe Crypt Ripper next? And then Looming Shade?
Cutting removal hurt control, though. It used to be able to 1-for-1 the opponent with removal spells until it dropped a Fleetwing and just won. I don't want to readd removal spells, so more creatures with defensive stats might work.
I think the removal comment is very true in that it hurts control a lot. I've stuck with the old style removal heavy black/red sections and black control still works pretty well around here. Being able to 1 for 1 your opponent until you both hit top deck mode puts black control in a very good spot.
Snake of the Golden Grove:The disadvantage to become a 7/7, when your opponent has a hard removal in hand, makes it even worse.
You really can't use this as a case against the snake. All of the high CMC pauper creatures fail the "vindicate test" outside of a few. Havenwood Wurm, Vulpine Goliath, Sentinel Spider, and Oakgnarl Warrior all get "punished" by the same card (removal, as do most of pauper's creatures). Nessian Asp gets punished even worse. These are all cards you currently run. The "Vindicate" test isn't a very good measure for pauper cube.
If you dont want stompy, fine. But your manalves will almost never be better than Elvish Spirit Guide, when the cube is balanced around whats played in it.
Of course there are 1 toughness creatures, that are so powerful you still run them. But were talking about a 2/1 cant block creature in a color that offers a lot more cc1 power2 drops, which just happen to be better..
This statement is just far from true. The cc 1 options that you listed aren't better than Jungle Lion. I know it is your choice/opinion to think otherwise but Jungle Lion is better than Ghazban Ogre, Wild Dogs, and Pouncing Jaguar. Wild Dogs and Ghazban Ogre leave you open to pretty big blowouts from taking 1 damage to the face from the spells you mentioned earlier that also kill your Jungle Lion. However, instead of those spells getting rid of your creature...they steal your creature which is MUCH worse for you. Pouncing Jaguar isn't worth 2 mana and it certainly isn't worth 2 turns worth of your mana. Playing it on turn 1 means you probably won't get a turn 2 play unless you happen to draw another 1 drop, which aren't exactly plentiful at pauper.
That being said, none of these cards even come close to being top of the list for Green 1 drops because having a mana elf will almost always give you more powerful plays than attacking for 2 on turn 2.
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I've always loved the "Free" Urza spells but pauper cube doesn't have the cards to support them where they are really good, which is draw go control. They're amazing when you can Snap your opponent's creature during combat and then keep up counter magic, flash in a creature, or EOT draw spell but pauper's instant speed options aren't quite there yet.
Hmmm never had that problem with Grim Harvest. It should be your opponent that has to work hard to get rid of it. At instant speed, your opponent has to kill one of creatures EOT while you're tapped out to be able to get rid of it. Late game, you cast Grim Harvest EoT (opponents). On your turn, you get to attack into your opponent and if they block and kill something, you get to pay the 3 mana to get the spell back. Depending on your mana situation, you can either cast a creature or keep up 2 mana to cast it on their EOT again. If your opponent declines to kill one of your creatures, even better.
I think that train of thought (the cost of two cards added into one card) actually works heavily in favor of Blightning, especially when compared to Morgue Burst. Using their lowest cost scenarios:
Blightning = Mind Rot + Lava Spike. Essentially you come out ahead -1 mana than these effects would normally cost and it comes in one card instead of 2.
Morgue Burst = Raise Dead + (given the color combination) would more often than not be Chain Lightning. You are essentially paying 4 more mana than you should for the same effects while getting the value of 2 cards instead of 1.
I'm also with Al in that Mind Rot is actually a playable spell. Discard spells have always been solid in aggro strategies. Denying your opponent resources is a great way for you to falter your opponents curve/ability to deal with your curve. They have to decide between discarding their lands or the cards they were going to cast with those lands that they decided to keep. It's still a +1 in card advantage on your opponent even though it does not directly affect the board state. Tack on a "free" Lava Spike and you've got your self an incredibly solid card.
Simply nuts seems a bit generous but I definitely think its playable.
Cube count definitely matters. It should always be considered when adding/removing cards from your cube.
Agreed. I think the shades are interesting cards and could warrant some testing but they don't solve the problem of getting black control to a point where it can win the game.
Crypt Ripper is the haste one.
I think Liliana's Shade and Darkling Stalker are up there on that list after Perilous Shadow.
I think the removal comment is very true in that it hurts control a lot. I've stuck with the old style removal heavy black/red sections and black control still works pretty well around here. Being able to 1 for 1 your opponent until you both hit top deck mode puts black control in a very good spot.
You really can't use this as a case against the snake. All of the high CMC pauper creatures fail the "vindicate test" outside of a few. Havenwood Wurm, Vulpine Goliath, Sentinel Spider, and Oakgnarl Warrior all get "punished" by the same card (removal, as do most of pauper's creatures). Nessian Asp gets punished even worse. These are all cards you currently run. The "Vindicate" test isn't a very good measure for pauper cube.
No one plays Skyshroud Elite or Nimble Mongoose in powered cubes. You know what they do play? Multiple copies of Elvish Mystic and Jungle Lion. To your credit there is a Wild Dogs in there but no Ghazban Ogre, Rogue Elephant, Nettle Sentinel, Scythe Tiger or Pouncing Jaguar.
This is a link to one of the most popular/respected powered cubes on MTGSalvation.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=198041
This statement is just far from true. The cc 1 options that you listed aren't better than Jungle Lion. I know it is your choice/opinion to think otherwise but Jungle Lion is better than Ghazban Ogre, Wild Dogs, and Pouncing Jaguar. Wild Dogs and Ghazban Ogre leave you open to pretty big blowouts from taking 1 damage to the face from the spells you mentioned earlier that also kill your Jungle Lion. However, instead of those spells getting rid of your creature...they steal your creature which is MUCH worse for you. Pouncing Jaguar isn't worth 2 mana and it certainly isn't worth 2 turns worth of your mana. Playing it on turn 1 means you probably won't get a turn 2 play unless you happen to draw another 1 drop, which aren't exactly plentiful at pauper.
That being said, none of these cards even come close to being top of the list for Green 1 drops because having a mana elf will almost always give you more powerful plays than attacking for 2 on turn 2.