Alright, I think I see your issue now. There are two ways to look at mafia. Playing to win and playing so that everyone has fun.
So, what I get from this is a competitive individual such as myself isn't allowed to have fun because the two concepts are mutually exclusive in your train of thought?
"in allowing everyone to enjoy their experience" I'm part of everyone, yes?
This is akin to EDH. Some people like Group Hug decks, some people like Group Thug decks, some people like a million combos with tutors and taking extra turns, others like more "fair" win conditions (like Uril, for example, who I hate BTW).
Just because my idea of fun doesn't jive with everyone doesn't make me wrong, does it? There are lots of players here that have had plenty of fun with me and against me. It seems to be the vocal minority, many of whom have lost to me because of my methods as town and scum, that are the ones claiming to not have as much fun because of me.
It has nothing to do with a timestamp. All that matters is that it happened in the same day phase, and before your PM quoting. It doesn't really matter if it happened at 8pm or 10pm.
Sure. Except for the part where you are trying to hold it up as:
I think it's acceptable to have anything game-related under Council jurisdiction. The PM he sent me is just admissible evidence to what kind of discussion was happening even before he posted his PM, and it has a lot to do with predetermination. There's a difference between him getting caught up in the heat of the moment and deciding to break it ahead of time.
You knew you were trying to torpedo me when you posted that PM. It was intended to preemptively apologize for the language where I blame you for the predicament that got me lynched in game, specifically where you modified role PM's when posting them to the game thread.
The fact that you changed them, as you told me behind the scenes, because you hadn't added color to them to hurry them out to the masses is poor Moderation IMO because your alteration, plus Iso's bah post, plus my own neglect for not rechecking my PM (I was Vanilla Town, why would I need to check again?) is what got me lynched.
Yes, my play was sloppy, but your choice to add information that was not previously listed in our role PMs (the color-coding) contributed to the unstable game environment that lead to my lynch.
It wasn't the sole factor, but it was a significant one.
===================================== The Timeline:
I tried to edit down to the key points:
Pregame, Zionite sends out role PMs. In his haste to start the game, he keeps the formatting to a minimum, and as such does not color -code them.
Notice how this is demonstrated in the opeing post as well. Also take note of Rule 8a, and remember that Rule 9 was added after this whole mess:
8a) Upon death, a player may be allowed one additional "bah" post which will not include any significant game information. This is meant for a quick 'good luck' or 'good bye'.
ADDED:
9) Remember this is a game. Personal attacks, out of game (OoG) elements, and the like spoil the game for others. If you knowingly break the spirit of the game for others, expect the appropriate punishment to be applied.
PM Structure
[Player Name] -
Role: Role Name
Name: Character Name
Age:
Race:
Occupation:
Common Dress:
Appearance:
About a paragraph or so of character description.
KEY POINT: You are part of the Town. Role description. Additional attribute: if any. You win when all the bad guys are gone. Notice that the word "Town" is not blue.
The city dwellers bicker amongst themselves for hours about which one would die.
"MzztrTetris is scum! We must kill him!" Shouts Dragonheart91, riding a wave of suspicion.
Later, Arcadic gestures toward Zelderex, "Classic case of scum here, what do you guys think?"
"Do you not see what is going on here? Arcadic has been playing us for fools all along!" Cries Iso, one of the louder members of the city.
zindabad points a finger at Cyan, "What about him? He looks suspicious."
Cyan leans against a wall, gazing down. A grey fedora rests atop his head. All the residents turn their attention to the mysterious figure.
"You are all wrong," he whispers, "the man with the gun is Iso."
"What? Why Iso?" asks pinkys_brain, trying to get a feel of the situation.
Cyan takes the time to explain in detail while the others listen and interject, gradually taking the same position. Iso refuses to recognize the accusations as legitimate, always focused on his suspect.
But Cyan sways popular opinion quickly.
____
Iso was silenced that night due to an angry mob. No one knew who fired first, but Iso never got up after the hail of bullets.
[Iso] -
Role: Gun Expert
Name: Prudencio Ruiz
Age: 27
Race: Central American
Occupation: Hired Spy
Common Dress: Black stealth-suit
Appearance: Buzz-cut black hair, shades
“¿Los viste? ¿Adónde se fueron?” Prudencio asked the street vendor, but he was nervous of Prudencio's Vanguard Strikegun and stealth-suit.
He remained silent, looking around anxiously for help.
Prudencio narrowed his gaze at the water trader, and put one hand on his green Vanguard. The merchant's eyes widened, finally cracking him.
“¡No disparen! Hablaré!” he cried, “Dos hombres corrían por aquí hace unos minutos, se dirigió al norte.”
Prudencio removed his hand from the Strikegun, raising it bare instead, “Gracias amigo.” He made a dash out the northern exit of the marketplace, disappearing into the dark night.
As he weaved in and out of the pedestrian traffic, he wondered about the vendor. It seemed like he might have known who the thugs were already.
The crowd thinned out, and Prudencio found himself at the Crow Bar. He caught a glimpse of the men ducking inside.
“****,” he muttered, dipping behind the corner of the bar. Maybe there was a back entrance, he thought. He would never get in the front in this gear.
The spy made his way around the side of the building, stopping in the middle. He saw a rectangular window opening about 10 ft. above the ground, probably to a bathroom. Prudencio scanned the alley, finally settling on a discarded soda crate. It raised him up enough to get his palms flat on the opening, providing grip for a short jump.
Prudencio pulled himself inside, landing silently in a shower next to a bedroom. A bedroom, he thought, but wasn't this a bar?
He walked toe-heel around the corner of the doorway, peaking outside into the bedroom. No one there. The spy walked further toward the other door in the room, stepping over discarded lingerie and personal lubricant, and finally put the pieces together. They sold more than just alcohol and drugs here.
He heard people talking on the other side of the door, and he moved his head in closer to hear.
“Were you followed?” a deep gruff voice spoke.
“What? No, no we lost him a few blocks back,” uttered a weaker voice, probably a rookie.
“Good, get the files?”
“Well, about that...” he trailed.
“You've got to be kidding me mate, you had ONE thing you had to do.” gruff scolded. Prudencio held in a snicker; he knew very well how tight security was for the Cyber-Pirate's data.
“The drive was easy to get, but after we got out of range of their network signal, the entire thing was remotely scrambled.”
“That should not have happened, did you install the countermeasure software?”
“The uh...what?” The rookie stammered.
The spy moved in closer to the door, trying to search through the silence to find the conversation again.
BANG! Prudencio flinched away at the gunshot, caught by surprise. It was a graduated memory shell discharge. The bullet expanded as it penetrated the target, creating gaping exit wounds. He took this as the cue to leave.
He balanced himself on the edge of the tub, boosting himself back up to the window opening. The door in the bedroom was opened, and Prudencio could hear the gruff voice telling someone to clean up the body.
One of the thugs made his way to the bathroom to wash the blood off his hands.
Then he dried off and returned to work, missing the spy by a nanosecond.
You are part of the Cyber-Pirates. [Redacted] You can check a player and see whether the player has a gun. Most mafia, cops, vigilantes have guns, but serial killers don't. [Redacted]
Abilities: (inspect)
[CENTER]It is now Night 1. Do not post.
Please send in (non)actions by Monday, April 9th.
Night will end on Tuesday, April 10th.
Holiday extension.
[/CENTER]
[/CENTER]
This post was editted. I thought this edit was due to the word "Town" being taken out. I was incorrect. This was one of my many mistakes. This mistake was prompted by Iso's claim in-game, AND the post below.
The in-game claim was appropriate. The above was not. I see how Iso felt that saying "Go Scum" would have been disingenuous, but give that Iso also staes clearly that his "Go Town" Bah post was intended as a game move in the spectator chat, I don't see how we can continue to argue about whether this was unintentional or not. He's said it was intentional. To be clear, I think he should be told never to do it again and we should all move on. That doesn't make his game action any less a part of my later confusion.
"Well, in a construct situation, what you got to do is get to the next screen somehow. Right?"
-- Richard K Morgan, Altered Carbon
It was a busy night.
It took police the better part of the early morning to get an idea of the situation. With four bodies, identifying each victim proved to be a difficult task.
Two of the bodies, Archonoid and Niv, were found completely shot up into a bloody heap. In both cases, no real trace was able to be found to the killer.
The second set of victims, pinkys_brain and Zajnet, puzzled investigators even more. It seemed that some sort of signal overloaded pinkys_brain's computer terminal, causing a lot of damage to the office and killing him. The exact same incident happened to Zajnet moments later, as if coordinated.
A techie examined Internet traffic logs in precinct 22 and concluded that pinkys_brain had a sleeper virus on his system. The virus had listened to remote commands and copied them onto another system on the network randomly, blowing both towers and killing their users.
But when he ran a trace, it came back obfuscated. There was no way to find out where the commands came from without the tower data, and that had been scattered into several atoms in the explosion.
So investigators were back at square one, using more classical tactics of interrogation to determine the cause of death for the citizens.
The Player List:
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes for a lynch.
[Niv] -
Role: Nonvoter
Name: Katerina Papadopoulos
Age: 19
Race: Greek
Occupation: Dancer
Common Dress: Not much
Appearance: Long straight blonde hair, earrings
By the time Katerina came out of her trance, it was over. The man had already put his business suit back on and left. Katerina felt empty, used, and unfulfilled.
The bass from the music in the Crow Bar vibrated in the back rooms, creating a dull beat that resembled a heart's. It was almost strange how easy it was for Katerina to turn off her senses, her emotions, while being exploited. She just removed herself from the situation, as if she weren't really there, and went somewhere else.
At first she tried fighting the johns, but it would only ever result in a beating. A girl escaped once; she had convinced one of the customers to smuggle her out. The club owners found her only a couple of weeks later, and rounded up all the women so they could watch the runner as her eye was gouged out of her socket with a knife. Katerina tried to look away, but one of the men had forced her head forward. She understood; they were teaching them a lesson.
Back in Greece, Katerina was the daughter of a poor, low-class family. Her father had lost his business after the economic collapse, and Katerina left school to start selling flowers to support her family. About four years ago, her parents had read an ad for jobs in America for young women to work as waitresses. They suggested that she go, and make a better life for herself outside of Greece.
Katerina considered it a great opportunity; she had always heard about how Americans were considered equal and had similar opportunities for all citizens. The ad offered an immigration pass as well, meaning she could earn some money and start going back to school.
But it was all a lie. The men had taken her passport away as soon as she arrived for 'safe keeping'. They said she had to work off her debt for the traveling fees and made her work in the bar. When she asked about her immigration pass, they said she had to pay off her debt before she would receive it.
After a few months of work, Katerina asked about her debt. The men told her that her debt had increased; her room and board would cost extra. It was then that her fears were confirmed: she wasn't ever leaving.
She was allowed to wash up after each visit, so she took every opportunity to use the shower. As the cold water hit her naked back, she thought about how she would one day escape and not be caught. It was hard; all the girls had a GPS chip implanted somewhere on their body. It monitored their movements until the Vertigal men tracked the escapee down. She would need to get the chip removed in order to make a clean break, but that was even more difficult. The hospital and private surgeons were too expensive to hire, and the back-alley doctors kept themselves hidden to anyone but trusted clients.
The water automatically cut itself off, but Katerina's hair was still soapy. She hit the button a few times, but her water allotment was up. With a sigh, she climbed out of the shower.
One of the most difficult aspects of escape was that Katerina was illiterate. She learned basic Greek in school back at home, but English was completely foreign to her. She could only speak enough to get by.
"Uhm, anyone in here?" Another john had wandered in.
"Yes sir, just a moment." Katerina quickly responded. She dried off her body and did her best with her hair, and went back into the bedroom.
The old man looked her up and down, practically salivating, "Oh...wow."
You are part of the Town. Katerina is a prisoner, illiterate, and unable to care for herself or escape her situation. Because of this, you have no vote. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (none)
[Zajnet] -
Role: Rookie Cop
Name: Sinjin Ward Jr.
Age: 19
Race: North American
Occupation: Unemployed
Common Dress: White T-shirt, Blue jeans
Appearance: Long shaggy hair, tattoos
The sonic waves of the bass thrumming through the crowd felt like a pulse of life, a stream of consciousness melding the mass of bodies crowded by the amps.
Sinjin was in the center of the flood, standing with a halcyon gaze fixed on the light array. The dense smoke combined with the lasers created fluid three-dimensional objects in the humid mist above. Sinjin's dilated pupils were absorbing enough light to accomplish a sort of faded sunny day in the black of night.
Occasionally a fleet of waitercopters would swoop in after identifying their targets: the purchasers of slush beer. After dropping the cold containers into their hands, they would lightly withdraw in formation to deliver to other customers. The buzzing of the waiters vibrated inside Sinjin's head, and the sensation intensified with the music. He could sense the emotions of the people around him, scanning the faces immediately gave him a subtle impression of who they were, what they've been through, or where they were headed. He noticed piercings, tattoos, augmentations, everything.
The crowd lifted into the air as the DJ dropped the bass, and Sinjin dived into deep contemplation while simultaneously jumping with the noise. The Rain had him completely connected with the thriving energy of the show; it was the best experience of his life.
____
The next morning felt like a piss-soaked waste bin.
Sinjin lay naked on his bedroom floor, his headphones ditched under the bed were still blaring from the night before. His brain felt fried, like a sizzling overclocked processor. Was it a dream?
Surely not, he thought. His clothes reeked of sweat, and his hair had dirt and grass in it.
Sinjin groggily pulled himself up off the floor and put on a clean pair of underwear. He picked the sleep out of his eye while opening the door to his room, coming face-to-face with his father.
"Morning."
Sinjin Ward Jr. reeled back a bit, covering his eye. "Oh, hey. You scared me."
"Good."
"So," Jr. paused, "Sleep well?"
"Cut the ****, son. You are going to stop. You know this." Sinjin Ward Sr. commanded.
"You don't know what my life is like."
"You don't know what life is."
A silence hung between them, seemingly creating a stretched moment in time.
An Aviator rang; it was Officer Ward's. The father and son held their glance at each other.
"I have to go," Sr. finally released. Sinjin looked down and shuffled his feet awkwardly, wanting his father to leave quickly to diffuse the tension.
After a moment, Sinjin looked up. "Hey dad?"
But he was already gone.
You are part of the Town. Due to your familial connections, acute visual perception, and skill of reading people, when the cop dies, you will become the cop. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (none)
[pinkys_brain] -
Role: Secret
Name: Aydenn Niles
Age: 18
Race: African-American
Occupation: Techie
Common Dress: Trendy meme tee
Appearance: Long dreadlocks, bandana
"Mr. Niles. Are you aware of what kind of trouble you're in, sir?" The officer prodded.
The investigation room was highly contrasted by a hot, bright light pointed at Aydenn Niles' face. The wattage was so high that it made Aydenn sweat into his red bandana, which the officer mistook for nervousness.
Aydenn scoffed, "What, did I forget to fill my parking meter?"
The officer looked offended, "You know damn well what's going on here."
"Enlighten me."
"We know what you're up to. We've been monitoring your Internet traffic for months now. Linking that traffic with your person, we can charge you with 2 felony drug trafficking offences and 4 misdemeanour delinquency charges," the detective shot him a hard look.
Aydenn leaned back in his chair, arms behind his head, "Sounds busy. Did you get any video surveillance of your wife and I too?"
The metallic table in the center of the room flew up in the air, landing with a sonic crash. Aydenn and the investigator grappled on the floor while four other officers rushed in to break it up.
Aydenn pulled his fist away from the grip of the guard to wipe the blood off his lip, "I'll be talking to my lawyer now, gentlemen."
_______
The hardest part about being in that interrogation room was being apart from the network. Aydenn is an administrator for several darknet communities ranging from prostitution, drugs, fetish interests, and censorship. His 3 year reign is mostly due to two elements: Trust and aptitude.
Aydenn had a perfect record for keeping his users anonymous, and thwarted almost all attempts to breach each remote server by authorities or rogue hackers. In fact, the only server to ever be breached was one containing financial information (and various virtual currency accounts). A year ago, after Aydenn had installed duplicate software for a privatized marketplace for trading, the server was completely wiped again when he woke up the next day.
At first, Aydenn assumed a server wipe script triggered upon a security breach and prevented any data from being accessed. But after looking over the logs, it seemed as if all the data was transferred before the server wipe took place. Aydenn was in disbelief; the only way this was possible was to physically manipulate the server (which was unlikely due to it's location underground in an abandoned subway maintenance station), or crack Aydenn's encrypted security passes. Since the connection remained but the contents were wiped, Aydenn knew his security was compromised at least two months ago.
The hacker sat on the cracked passes until there was some economic gain and exploited it as soon as the opportunity presented itself. It was a huge blow to his ego; Aydenn got out of the marketplace game for good after that breach. His reputation was tarnished.
You are part of the Town. Your role is secret. You don't know what your role does. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (none) [Secret Radiant: If the player is targeted, that action is replicated to another random player.]
[Archonoid] -
Role: Disabler
Name: Warren Macey
Age: 36
Race: African-American
Occupation: Mercenary
Common Dress: Studded leather
Appearance: Short neat black hair, scars
Warren dug the Kendachi MonoGunout of the victim's chest, electric bolts shooting from the blade to the fried augments before dissipating. He switched the knife off and wiped the loose scraps off the sides; sometimes they got stuck from the magnetic charge. He put the gunblade away, then shook a cigarette out of a box of Chinese filter-tips.
“Notify HQ he's dead, Amelia,” he spoke, lighting the cigarette.
“Command executed. What else can I do for you?” The Aviator replied cheerfully.
Warren exhaled, “Shut the hell up.”
The room went quiet.
He thought about how easy it was to kill the man, how the Kendachi cut through his arms like a plasma torch while simultaneously shocking him. It only had a single bullet in the chamber, but Warren rarely needed to use it. It was funny, in a way, how simple tools made life easier for mankind. Especially during times of conflict.
Warren crushed the filter-tip out next to the corpse, a calling card of his. He had always done it since the very first kill, when the victim had a pack of the damned things in his pocket. Warren thought it'd be appropriate not to let the cigarettes go to waste, and left a butt for the dead to smoke. He knew it was probably a bad idea given DNA registers these days, but tradition held.
The Cyber-Pirates paid handsomely; they had plenty of profit to fund their operations. When complications arose that slowed the income flow, they had men like Warren unclog the pipes.
Most of the targets were just pathetically weak human beings. He found it easiest to take them out without talking to them beforehand, as they usually just begged or tried to bargain with him, as if they could offer more than the Cyber-Pirates.
You are part of the Cyber-Pirates. [redacted] You can disable someone's role with your Kendachi MonoGun. That player will temporarily lose all abilities/characteristics until the next night.
Cyber-Affinity: Combines your current role with any augmented one. The augmented portion is changed if you are targeted again. [redacted]
Abilities: (disable)
[CENTER]It is now Day 2. You may post. Deadline set for May 1st, 2012. Note: Not everyone received full-flavor PMs in the interest of time. [/CENTER]
Then we have Day 2. In the opening post of Day 2, listed above, we have the Town PM's listed with Blue in their formatting.
I've been playing here for a year, and without updating my blog I'm going to guess I've played in more than 20 games, and I've read at least 15 more. In those 35+ games, blue is the accepted Town formatting.
The fact that the Mod altered the PM structure because he'd chosen to rush them out in the pregame lead me to an incorrect conclusion. Why in the world would I recheck the PM structure for what the Mod had full revealed? The full reveal should reflect the PM's in the manner in which they were sent.
I made an assumption, which got me lynched, eventually. We'll come to that.
I must have been smoking some ****, because I could have sworn Iso's revealed role said "Town Gun Expert," going into the night phase. The **** is wrong with me? I'm guessing I'm the only one who had that issue?
...was Iso's death scene editted? Was the word "Town" taken off in front of the words Gun Expert? Because I thought I was it, too, and was pissed to lose a town to the first lynch. Thanks in advance for clearing this up.
Vote Arcadic as my town role PM is clearly in Blue, but I thought maybe power roles were in Green? And as I've stated repeatedly, I strongly believed it said Town Gun Expert. I have to believe Zionite, but (no offence ModDude) I'm half tempted to confirm with Iso that his role PM said this as well. I'm also pissed about his poor sportsman-like "Bah go Town" post. That may be where I transposed this idea from.
If he gets my killed with that bull****, I will be beyond furious.
...
You said it yourself. I had NO idea what Iso's alignment was. Also, I didn't set up squat. I stated that Cyan looks much worse if Iso flips town, given that I had no knowledge of two scum teams in this game. Iso flipped "Scum Rolecop" basically (clever design, that), and it has been demonstrated that I'm an idiot and couldn't understand the set-up.
You think I'm faking this? I'm not panicked, I'm angry, again like in StarCraft, that I'm being attacked by the most willful player in the game on poor, weak reasoning that fabricates me into being scum when I'm not.
I call bull****. My role PM is black. No fancy colors. Any other townie should be able to confirm this. Unvote... Vote Artifice 101
This is a blatant lie or major slip. Either way, it can't be ignored.
Oops. My bad, homie :shrug::embarrass:
Also I was more than a little confused about who got killed and how Night 1, if anyone recalls. Beyond that I was more than a lot mad that we had so many kills. 2 I was expecting, but 4? Really??
Zionite told me at one point that this whole game could have ended Night 1 with a Perfect Town Victory because there were enough kills to end it if applied just so... Yeah, swingy game is swingy. Eh, moving on...
You are correct. It was the order of how the role PM's were listed that threw me off. The flavor explains what happend with very little formatting, and the list doesn't coincide with that order.
To be clear:
Sorry, I got it mixed up.
It listed [Niv, Zajnet,] [pinkys_brain, then Archonoid] in the spoilers. That's how I grouped them in my mind. I'm an idiot.
My first confusion. My second is as follows AND this is when I sent Zionite the PM that he has so kindly listed as evidence of my mindset. It was sent in an effort to assure him that I was not attacking him personally. Asian Invasion and zindabad had both been recipients of my "under the table kicks to the shin" as Moderators, as has WoD I think.
@Zionite: I hate you for the following...
It was a mistake, prompted YET AGAIN by the way the Mod formatted his death scene. He added the blue. My PM is not blue. I made another HUGE mistake.
I've breadcrumbed my role from my first post. I've mentioned my gender, too. And I've been changed. I'd like to get to the bottom of this with WoD, but if I'm speedlynched, whatever. I played very badly as town. Arcadic is likely scum, though. He knows I've made this same mistake before as town (StarCraft, Days and Days of arguing I didn't know the "Town Race") and will likely hang me out to dry with it for his own self satisfaction. Sad, really.
Feel free to lynch me. I'm a moron, and nothing too costly to lose.
I have no way of proving this, and I'm a sloppy, stupid player for not checking, but I am telling the 100% truth. I've just made a grip of mistakes. If I were scum, i would clam up right now. I do not flail as scum. I go silent. (see Flame Warriors and Ender's Mafia). I resist my lynch as town, as I've been doing all day.
Yep, I'ma dumb-dumb.
If you believe I would swear on my children in a game and be lying, you are either scum forced to be a monster or a completely uncaring, illogical person. Please believe me. I do not care about this game enough to make such an oath.
I made the oath about my kids about having thought I saw something, then reinforced my statement in an attempt to demonstrate that I would never say such a thing as scum. I've said in other games that I would be beyond furious if players used out of game circumstances to play as scum, in just such a way. It had never occured to me that, as everyone has pointed out, if the whole town did this the scum would have nothing to say. I mean, that is hyperbole, and a game would never devolve to such a thing, but still. I understand the point.
I was simply fighting tooth and nail not to fall prey to what I felt were two previous unfair things that had been done in the game. I'm reminded that two other wrongs don't make this wrong correct. But understand, at the time I did not register it as a wrong. I've read the MTGS Mafia rules extensively, and it was not a rule when I tried to use it. I'm sorry if this upset people.
For reference, Ged played around it as scum, as did AI and zindabad. It didn't disrupt the scum's game.
Also, Unvote because I can demonstrate that Arcadic is capable of this stupid attack as town. Damnit.
Man did I screw up in this game. Sorry guys.
ZioMod told me he rushed the PM's out when I told him preemptively I might be calling him names and fuming at him over this whole thing. Because he did this, he added the formatting when he presented the death scenes as a nice touch.
He's also suggested that my play wasn't probation material, but it was unsportsmanlike in his eyes. I can see why people say this, but I still say this is a game of argumentation and truth. I'm making moves within it the best way I know how.
He also wished me luck. I wish him sore shins. *kick*
Saying things like 'I swear on my kids and I wouldn't lie about that' is not 'making moves', it is just being a scumbag.
Don't describe other users as scumbags. Flame Warning.
@Artifice: You honestly might as well stop talking. You seem to think that making arguments like 'I don't make scum slips' is somehow compelling. It is not, because if you were scum, you could not say anything different. You are making the only arguments that you can. Could you be town? Of course, it is possible. But it is significantly more likely that you are scum. Period, end of discussion. Nothing that you can say is going to change any of this, and you are getting lynched. If it's a mislynch, then hey..that sucks. That chance exists with every lynch. Lynches still happen, and this one is still going to happen. It is significantly more likely that you screwed up as scum(assuming that all town role PMs were listed in blue) and are just trying to cover your tracks than it is that you, as town, thought the word town was blue in your role PM when it wasn't. The town can't forego lynched based on 'maybes' like this. If they did, no one would ever get lynched.
And this is not even taking account the copious amounts of scummy behavior on your part up to this point in the game. And no, I am not going to go into detail on all of that again because it doesn't matter now.
And this is where I started to take it all personally. Which I shouldn't have, but I did.
Alignment and role are the most important pieces of a death scene. Since it is essential information, it will remain the same no matter what I may edit.
What this means is, I may edit death scenes for a couple of reasons, but it will never be to change a dead player's role, alignment, or anything else that drastically effects the game state.
FYI for all players: I prefer PM discussions for specific questions such as this. Try not to call me in the thread for answers unless it is regarding rule clarification, vote count accuracy, or any other Hosting responsibility. This is for a variety of reasons, and with the intention of maintaining the flow of player posts rather than Host posts.
Here Zionite semi-confirms that I'm a moron, but doesn't say anything about changing the PM colors because he knows it will have an effect on gamestate and would be unfair to the scum because it likely would have stopped my impending lynch. I posit that his initial change was unfair to me as town because it did not reflect my expectations in a "full reveal" game.
To put this plainly, if Artifice does not get lynched, Zionite can go ahead and replace me. I can't even find the words to describe how disgusted I am at the way he has acted in this game, and it is even worse to hear that he has done similar things in other games. Zionite should modkill him. If he won't do so, then unfortunately the town will have to take care of it.
Fortunately, I'm pretty sure he's scum and it's the right thing to do anyway.
The part where Cyan gets emotional, too. Anyone barking at me about this from a previous game needs to discuss it on a more general Mafia subforum level.
I am requesting players to tone down this OoG hostility/threatening to replace out. It puts unfair pressure on the rest of the players.
I strongly object to MTGS Mods weighing into gamestates like this. Let the players play. This is two games where this has occured.
MTGS Mods should be looking for MTGS infractions, not gamestate infractions. That is not what they are there for. Regardless of how much I like TCM (which is a lot), I strongly object to this post.
Beyond what tordeck posted, apparently I was given this ability each Night.
ZioMod was kind enough to correct me via PM in my like 17th error. (BTW, fun fact: being a blithering idiot is a town tell).
Ok, I can handle that. I think I understand your question below. I've PM'd the Mod to make sure I didn't miss something.
Plainly, to repeat, I was given an every Night vote remover ability. Whoever I use it on would be told that I was the one that used the ability on them. That player will lose their vote the next Day and apparently only the next Day. I assume I was given it by you, since you came into this Day asking about it. I was not informed who interacted with me.
Also, plainly, when asked Zionite told me he hadn't come up with good flavor for this ability. It was written very generically in the first PM I received, so I immediately asked why. I didn't understand the first message and wanted to know if it was political, cybertech, chemical, whatever.
He explained (to change the turn of phrase he used a bit) that he hadn't been inspired enough to figure out how this ability would work flavorfully. I made a flavor suggestion and he took it. I typed "Area Brain Willpower" into Google and linked the first thing that popped up. I used the two areas of the brain there, added some cyberpunk, Borg nanotech in the mix and voilà, new ability flavor.
That's why I'm asking you to relay to the game that he PM'd you with new improved flavor, as I assume/hope he did.
This is also a true story. I wrote the flavor for the ability given to me. While it was fun doing so, I don't understand why I had to....
I thought I was very clear. OoG disucssion for other players, as in posts like these:
And others of their ilk. These posts are completely out of character, and put unfair pressure on other players in the game. I apologize if that was unclear, however:
Ignoring a moderator request will get you in trouble. You did not, but I would bare that in mind. Next time, keep this in the pm system, instead of boasting.
Again, why are MTGS Mods effecting gamestates, rather than Warning and Infracting for MTGS rules issues?
I was in the midst of making up my mind about Artifice when he made the color slip. I find that to be damning enough on its own (as unfortunate as it is to out someone like that), but then he goes on to throw down all these horrible emotional appeals. As has been mentioned, that's not something that is cool, and it makes me even happier with the lynch.
I have Cyan as strongly town. He's so obviously not a Cyber-Pirate, and while it's possible he's on the other team, I'm not feeling it.
Dragonheart91 is also pretty clearly town. I had that down based on behavior even before he was first on the scene to catch Artifice's color slip.
WoD is town based on claim. I have no idea why a mafia member would give someone else a voteblocking ability. There's some weird scenario where he and Artifice are on the same scum team and he donated that ability to him - or more likely that they're both lying to set up some sort of fake claim - but I think it's much more likely he's just town.
I like that zindabad has started posting. I like his posts.
I don't remember if or why I ever stopped wanting to lynch MzztrTetris. I don't think I did.
Interested in rereading Zeld since I remember not liking his early game play. Will do that some time.
Can has lynch Artifice once everyone checks in.
And this is where, if I had been allowed to stick around, we would have lynched Ged for being non-commital.
I saw the Blue in the Day Scene and figured the Mod kept the same formatting. It was sloppy, period. I'm also really pissed, TBH, that the Mod made this change. I consider inconsistency a mistake and unfair to the player it confuses.
I stand by this.
No. I said Iso's role being in Green threw me off. I though town power roles would be listed in Green. Blue is the generic color for town role PM's. I was a Vanilla town when I read my PM, ONCE. Why do you keep harping on this, completely unwilling to accept I may have made a mistake while still suggesting it is a possibilty?
QFT
Thanks Ged for at least participating. At least part of what you believe is in the thread. None of it seems very concrete, though.
Can you answer why you wanted to lynch MzztrTezz? I don't even remember him being in this game
I also don't like how DRey has been not posting. I'd like him to get in here and say something. Anything. Even if he votes me, I don't care.
@AsianI, I do not like how you are suddenly ok with my lynch. Why is that exactly? I see you reading.
this. Add in the 5 day night where art could have actually looked at his pm and made some deductions and it shows that Art doesn't have any idea what a town pm looks like.
@Arcadic: why in the 5 day Night would I have had any reason whatsoever to look at a Vanilla Townie role that had nothing to do with the flavor or story I've read so far?
How many times have you looked at your Vanilla Town role in other games after you were given it unless you needed to claim flavor or something??
I was too busy:
A) with Easter weekend, my father leaving town for a month, and my mother's birthday
B) being pissed at what I thought was this game starting off with a player having rolled over to his own lynch (Iso) and also having flipped town, which again, I blame on Iso's bah post, which is akin to actually breaking the rules because it had information in it that had an effect on the game after he was dead in the game, but whatever. We'll talk about that post game.
I will admit im torn. I want to beleive art is just town that f'ed up. But on the other hand LyaL.
Then thete is cyan's actions. I dont want art lynched just to spite him. But art is the best lynch canidate for the day.
In the end i have to go with what is best for the town and the game state.
Sorry art but vote art
If you flip town i will do my best to avenge you. If not then to your gambit
This is where the timeline gets very wonky. Tordeck voted me, but he was the 8th player to vote me according to Zionites Votecount... He was NOT the hammer vote, and was soooooooooooo obvtown.
“These changes in identity and location can easily become nested inside each other, many layers deep, even if you aren't doing anything nefarious. Once you have forgotten who and where you are, the whoami command is indispensable.”
― Neal Stephenson, In the Beginning...Was the Command Line
Not Voting:
AsianInvasion, DRey, MzztrTetris, kill-joy, Dragonheart91, Artifice_101
With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes for a lynch.
Prods have been sent to MzztrTetris and kill-joy. It is now twilight.
This post was altered because Zionite missed a vote. I was posting while he made these alterations. Then I looked back, and suddenly realized I was lynched, partially because the Mod had made yet another mistake. This also implicated tordeck as the hammer vote, which made me even madder because he was Obvtown 101.
Actually it does. Given that the thing that was sworn on was something that many other players knew he wouldn't swear on lightly (The Gutter... you and I both know he would make that statement if he were lying. He's abrasive, but he holds some things very, very dear) such as Jobie for prime example. He would have screamed for my lynch if I had tried to call kpain a liar after that.
Yes. And now DRey. Yes, obviously this is because they are siding with me, but also it is because they are right in their sentiment so far.
You should know better about this as well. I am frustrating, but I am town. Promise.
No.
None of what I have said is a lie. Not a single stitch, not a single word, not a single letter. I am stupid, but I am honest about my stupidity.
I refuse to be lynched for mistakes and nonsense that relates to not checking my role PM and the Mod altering his PM posts when transfering them to where the players can see them.
I do not like to lose, and I do not like to leave me team worse off. You know I'm a pretty damn good analyst and a much better than average player at scumhunting/reading through BS. You would much rather have me around parsing through this game than dead on the sidelines.
EBW: Also, I ABSOLUTELY HATE wasting town resources, and my lynch would be exactly that. A giant stupid waste, like some of the really bad lynches early lynches in WoW Mafia, for example.
@tordeck: No gambits. I am not even remotely the best lynch cadidate today. The opportunistic people who have barely given reasons for my lynch are much better.
I am not going out like this.
I posted these last three posts thinking that I had a chance of swaying the town, and perhaps getting tordeck and the others to unvote me.
Eh, I would argue that to be incorrect. Motivation is what makes a lie for me. Something can be false but not a lie, if you are ignorant to being incorrect.
That is precisely what I was in this situation. Ignorant. I'm supposed to memorize PM details? And I'm being lynched over them? Pathetic really.
(Oh hey, protip for all you Mafia players who want to improve your game: I don't care what you think of me, because I'm town. Not at all concerned with my image. Catch on to that as a town tell next time. Geez.)
I'm very interested in seeing who ends up dropping the hammer here though. With most of the players already having voted, picking up the last two votes is going to require some discussion.
BTW GUYS, pay attention to how CYAN PM'D the Mod to have the VOTECOUNT corrercted. He WAS listed as voting zindabad when the last one was posted. That made tordeck's vote L-1.
He's self-conscious and that's a scum tell, folks Duh.
CYAN is scum. He picked up on what DragonHeart said about role PM text and ran with it. Two teams, one team, whatever. He doesn't eat a Vig shot and I've lost all hope in this game.
Eh, my misenterpretation equals all of Cyan's the whole Day 2 through.
I would ask you to tell us your alignment for real now Artifice, but you seem like the type who would still lie as scum, so, I guess we'll find out in like 4 hours.
Also this statement bugs me:
This was where I officially lost it. I was completely aware that I was dead, and that this was a full reveal game when I made my choice to stop Cyan's personal attacks. I had just gotten done saying I would clam up as scum and self vote, and he in his irritation, said this to me. "...you seem like the type..." was the language that set me off. As though I was subhuman or something.
My name has been in the 'Currently Active' bit there for most of the time that the thread has been in day. I usually keep this tab open in a tab in my browser. Keep trying baddie.
It's fascinating that you're completely onboard the 2 team theory now, even though you tried to deny it earlier when it was being used as a point against you.
@AI: Information wise, there wasn't really a day. Artifice's slip occurred early, and whether he is town or scum, people's reactions to it were going to be the same. The town has to lynch in these situations, because as soon as you let one scum get away with what Artifice did(even just the probable lying and then 'oh I just messed up' part), every scum ever will try to get away with the same thing.
If I were the type to flame you would get one right now.
Here, I'll beat Zionite to it:
Originally Posted by Zionite
[Bolly Artifice 101] -
Role: Journalist
Name: Adriana Courtney
Age: 24
Race: European
Occupation: Media
Common Dress: Flashy clothes
Appearance: Dyed hair, strange photographic lenses
Adriana was the face of information for the masses.
The reporter finished her salad in the lunch room, where she sat alone. This is mainly why Adriana ate quickly; she didn't like being seen eating alone.
She reported on a criminally popular news show, earning incredible amounts of revenue, spinning information for the consumption of many. It was an amazing career.
The waste from the salad container was thrown in the bin. The reporter thought about her parents, and what they had said to her growing up.
Adriana's father once said that the TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.
Having been here for over a year now, she now understood how frighteningly accurate her father Hunter had been.
Adriana couldn't help but admit that 20% of the program was straight crafted war propaganda and the other 80% was corporate PR bull****.
It was odd being in a seat of great influential power, yet completely restricted from ever wielding it. She didn't even write her own material anymore; she just read the cues she was given during the show, and the audience adored her unknowingly.
You are part of the Town. Vanilla. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (none)
Cyan, stop attacking me. You're, as tordeck said, crossing a line.
I posted my PM, when I was already dead, in a full reveal game.
Zionite has posted that "the town got to use that time to talk when they shouldn't have been given that chance" and if you look back, AsianInvasion and Cyan were the one's talking predominantly. As far as I can tell, thought, it did had not have an effect on the gamestate.
Am I sorry I lost it? Sure. Should I have posted my PM? Nope. Will I ever do it again? You bet your ass I won't. Did I feel justified at the time to jar Cyan out of attacking my character? You bet your ass I did.
Given all of the Moderation errors, to argue the integrity of the game was effected holds no weight.
I'm sorry I stepped mightily on the game rules, but I feel as though this situation was wholy unique. It will never be duplicated in my Mafia career.
He's referring to Iso saying 'go town' when he died. Of course, all of the rest of us read that post also, and we did not somehow end up at the conclusion that Iso was town. Iso didn't break any rules.
Posting his role PM is possibly a big deal, but probably not if he's actually Vanilla Town. It's the least of his grievances, to be sure. He's already lynched, afterall.
Cyan's immediate reaction was that I hadn't effected the game.
I've cut you a lot of slack here and gave you the benefit of the doubt. You've ignored warnings about OoG emotional appeals and continued to use them as a defense. And now you've broken one of the most sacred rules of the game.
I'm posting on my phone at the moment, but when I return home I'll make sure that the council knows full well the extent of your unacceptable behavior. If I were on the council, I would make absolutely sure you never play another game again.
I don't really care what your reasons are; in a game, rules come first. They define the experience. You have single handedly ruined Day 2 for some selfish idea of personal honor, ignoring the other 15+ people involved who want to play the game as intended.
I whole heartedly recommend you cease posting in this thread until the issue is resolved. If you continue to post, the situation for you will worsen.
This post demonstrated how Zionite is completely emotional about the consequences, and I believe he is still equally as biased. I'm sorry to have put this strain on him with my actions.
After further consideration of the reasoning behind this rule, I've decided to revoke the quoted post. Encryption should only be disallowed in the case that every player is forced to do it. I will ask that these things be kept in a spoiler though, as they are quite long.
It is still night, just wanted to update.
EDIT: While you wait, Cool teaser for a Cyberpunk short film. Nice augments!
EDIT2: To prevent any more mishaps, I have added the following rule to the rules post:
9) Remember this is a game. Personal attacks, out of game (OoG) elements, and the like spoil the game for others. If you knowingly break the spirit of the game for others, expect the appropriate punishment to be applied.
This rule goes into effect immediately.
Rule added after the Day I was lynched, for reference.
“This isn’t the first. People have been making malware that does this for a few years now. There’s a word for it: ‘ransomware.’"
-- Neal Stephenson, REAMDE
"They're dropping like flies."
A detective was crouched over another body; the fourth one to be called in that morning.
"Well, that's what happens when you let gangs roam free and allow back-alley aug docs to arm them. Damn shame." Another spoke, lighting a cigarette nearby the crime scene.
All the victims were shot dead in various locations by unknown assailants. Witnesses from the murders of Zelderex and AsianInvasion said they saw street punks fleeing the scene on rocket boards, but other connections couldn't be made between them and the victims.
Arcadic and NeedMoreAssumptions were targeted with the familiar caseless ammunition, leaving only a corpse with seared exit wounds for investigators. The coroner at the station was already getting bored.
"At least they had their information on them. I couldn't imagine having to identify four John Does," the detective inspecting the body stood and faced his companion, "Coffee after this is wrapped up?"
The other investigator nodded, crushing out his cigarette, "Need a little something to get through today myself..."
The Player List:
kill-joy
Squeege
MzztrTetris
tordeck
zindabad
Cyan
Wrath_of_DoG
Void
Dragonheart91
Ged
DRey
With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes for a lynch.
[Zelderex] -
Role: Shell-shocked Veteran
Name: Ashton Bates
Age: 34
Race: North American
Occupation: Ex-Marine
Common Dress: Urban camouflage
Appearance: Bald, visible head and arm augmentations
Ashton Bates gunned down every last one of the Iranians, leaving a bloody mist hanging in the air. The gatling gun put off a burning heat from the friction of the spinning barrel, but the nitrogen rounds cooled as they fired. It froze the blood into a kind of crimson snow, slowing it's decent to the ground.
Ashton grinned, feeling high off of the Black Link. It changed him into an intensified fighter, ignoring flesh wounds, removing empathy, and focusing his attention on maximizing damage.
Seeing that the enemy company was terminated, Ashton spun down the gatling gun. It was attached to his arm at the elbow, but he had many interchangeable attachments for the socket hardware. He preferred a sonic pulse rifle, but this was a heavy-duty operation deep within Iranian borders.
The Marine scanned the battlefield once more before departing on his hoverbike, making sure to leave no survivors.
____
That was four years ago.
Ashton Bates shivered in his desert tan cot, suffering from an intense Black Link withdrawal. He had to take more. He didn't want to, but if he refused then he would most surely die. The stuff was addictive and turned you into a full super soldier, forever unable to adapt to life outside of a warzone.
The Ex-Marine wielded a syringe filled with a black liquid. It had the texture of hot molasses, and stung like hell when you shot up.
Ashton's pupils dilated, and he immediately felt ready to destroy life. It was a vicious cycle of dosing and killing, a never ending gore nightmare.
Since he'd left the Marines, he had decided that if he had to kill, he would try to hit those who had hurt innocent people. It wasn't that Ashton hadn't killed innocent people before, because he had. But now that he had this meaningless, tortured existence, the only way he found meaning was through cleaning up the scum riding dominantly on the backs of exploited workers.
He headed out to the street again, determined to make a difference in people's lives.
You are part of the Town. You can kill another player each night. You are immune to all actions except kills. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Craven hurried out of the office, headed straight for Dexter's apartment.
Hopefully Slavomír stayed incapacitated for awhile before reporting back, giving him enough time to inform Dexter why he just inherited 3000 bitcoins. With that kind of currency, Craven could buy an entire pizza delivery franchise and still have a little left over for recreational use.
Craven's hoverbike set down on a metered rack near Dexter's apartment building, requiring payment to remain upright. Craven had seen meters run out on these before; the bikes would simply fall to the ground, landing in a caged pit that opened up to receive them. Once the bike landed, the pit would close again, crushing the hardware to scrap. It was harsh, Craven thought, but an effective method of parking authority.
The Netrunner took the lift up 8 floors, finally reaching Dexter's apartment. He raised his hand to knock on the door, but it was already open.
“...Dex?” Craven called.
No response.
Craven pushed the door open with his foot, and glanced inside. The television was static, tuned to a dead channel. The living room was empty.
No sign of Dexter.
He stepped quietly into the room, eyes constantly scanning the apartment. The glow of the TV reflected off of the carpet, and Craven recognized blood.
His first instinct was to run, and his body panicked. But his money was here, and he needed it badly if he was to get out of his situation.
The office door stood ajar. A dull fluorescent light flickered within, spilling a flashing canted spear across the floor.
Craven rushed over to the door and threw it open.
Dexter sat upright in a chair, motionless and bloodied. Craven wanted to throw up and tried to look away. Someone had gotten here first.
All of Dexter's hardware peripherals lie scattered underneath a shattered desk. The server Craven had sent his money to was gone.
Craven felt defeated, and his ego shattered. He had given his best friend a death sentence by sending his currency here to the greedy hands of some murderer.
He paused for a moment, considering himself. Then, realizing the urgency of his surroundings, he hastily quit the apartment.
You are part of the Town. You may hack another player's action, modifying it randomly. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (hack)
[Arcadic] -
Role: Listener
Name: Young Yu
Age: 23
Race: Korean
Occupation: Privacy Techie
Common Dress: Hippie attire
Appearance: Long steep black hair, earrings
Young Yu saw the feed update, and reacted immediately by pressing the download button.
She was surrounded by the mecca of technology development, Google Inc., but only a tiny cubicle work-space among many highly skilled techies. All around her, keys clicked like a steady rain, constantly producing content or pouring through data.
The download completed, a full report of the last three incidents of businesses financial accounts being wiped. Young had found a buyer for this sort of information, and needed money to finance a side-project of hers. The buyer was [redacted], but Young didn't know why she needed the data.
A company memo hit her inbox, but she ignored it. It was one of those restroom hygiene reminders that kind of made you wonder what event provoked the memo to be sent out.
She copied the reports to a personal drive, then pocketed it. It now contained enough information to buy 3 weeks of development time. But Young Yu would have to wait until she was home to avoid the security monitoring on the Google HQ network. The acquisition definitely put a bounce in her step for the day though; the reports were taken offline within 3 minutes, making the data much more valuable. She couldn't believe her luck.
Young decided she was going out tonight; maybe hit up a few clubs, wear a dress, and call her coke connection. Selling user information had been the most lucrative enterprise for her, paying off all her student loan debts in under 4 months. She had told herself after the debt was paid off, she would stop. But now her research needed funding, so Young needed to proceed. As long as the coin flowed, she would be searching for information. Even if that information sharing would cost her job at Google, the risk was worth the benefits.
You are part of Vertigal. [redacted] Each night you may tap a player's communication lines, receiving duplicates of all game messages they receive that night. [redacted]
Abilities: (listen)
[NeedMoreAssumptions] -
Role: Role Cop
Name: Hiroshi Kita
Age: 23
Race: Japanese
Occupation: Actor
Common Dress: High-fashion top, blue jeans
Appearance: Short neat black hair, stunning good looks
Hiro accepted the award for Best Actor graciously, thanking his mother and talent agent at the podium.
He was the star of the summer blockbuster With Two Hearts, and became a teen idol all over the world. With this award he could do anything; maybe branch out into Interactive narrative or go low-brow with some of the sensual touch media. He liked the freedom.
Most people said it was his eyes, shaped like dark almonds, that made him so attractive. But he knew the truth; it was the winning smile he conjured that the people really went nuts for. As soon as he flashed his perfect teeth, the cheering doubled and the crowds went insane.
He waved at the crowd from the podium again before departing, the corners of his mouth turned up in a grin. He waited until the cheering was at a crescendo, then parted his lips. Just as expected, the volume was amplified, and the host had to wait until Hiro was seated before continuing.
A slender European woman sitting next to Hiro leaned over to him, “Congratulations! How many awards have you won before?”
He turned to look at the stranger, “Four, but I've been trying to get Best Actor for years.” It was a lie; this was the first award he had won. But the European looked impressed.
“Wow, I had no idea you were such a big deal. Were you nominated for anything else?”
He shook his head, already knowing where this was going. He smiled.
“Well, why don't we get out of here then? My place?” She inserted her arm underneath his.
“I'd love nothing more,” he answered, taking up her arm. They quickly left the ceremony together.
The next award was announced, and a camera panned by Hiroshi's empty seat to get a reaction shot.
He was speechless.
You are part of the Town. You can inspect people to find out their roles. Your action is not guaranteed to succeed. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Both of the detectives sat in a Dunkin' Donuts, talking politics and censorship, when an Aviator crackled.
"We've got a...situation here. Code Foxtrot Nine. Another body found. We need you and Doakes to report to 311 Gibson St. immediately. Over and out."
The investigators eyed each other grimly. "Guess break time is over, huh?"
"Indeed," Doakes replied, nodding, "Waiter, can I get a coffee to-go please? We have to run."
____
Police blasted the metal door open after complaints of a stench coming from the ventilation shafts. Inside was the body of tordeck, charred from a deadly electrical malfunction. The bunker held some serious weaponry, making the local police force look like a day-care center.
"Constitution Arms 2E-SS GunPod, an AcuTek Cruncher, M4A1 Pulse Rifle...dear lord, who is this guy?"
Suddenly the hallway was flooded with suits. FBI.
An agent flashed a badge, "This is our jurisdiction now. You are officially relieved of your post, officers."
Doakes shrugged, "That figures. Have fun cleaning up your mess, gentlemen."
____
The Player List:
kill-joy
Squeege
MzztrTetris
zindabad
Cyan
Wrath_of_DoG
Void
Dragonheart91
Ged
DRey
With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes for a lynch. Votes have been reset.
[tordeck] -
Role: Secret Agent
Name: “Cerebros”
You are part of the Town. During the day, you can use your cloaking device to visit a player in private. That player will be told your alignment. If you visit the same player twice, they will die. You win when all the bad guys are gone.
Abilities: (friend[day])
[CENTER]Note: This is the result of a missed night action, not a day action. My apologies for the error. [/CENTER]
And DRey's kill was added to a 5 kill Night, in a Normal. After the fact, as another of the accumulating Mod errors.
Now, for reference, I am sorry that my behavior disturbed people. I did not intend for the AtE to have any other effect than reversing my lynch. There was no rule against it when I did it, so I didn't know I shouldn't do it.
As to the PM quoting, I am sorry I did that. I felt justified and cleared to do so since the game was a "Full Reveal" game and the information was pending anyway, but Zionite's observation about how could have effected the gamestate escaped me at the time I made the choice, given that I had been attacked personally so many times and given such shakey ground upon which to play. I shouldn't hav done it, but I was already dead, and the informational effect on the game was non-existent.
So, to sum up, as I've stated previously in my reply to Jobie, I am learning and adapting. I have stopped using methods that others have suggested make them uncomfortable. I feel as though my actions in Cyberpunk were very foolish, but understandable given the circumstances at the time (my lack of knowledge as to any sort of rules regarding AtE, and my shortsighted, seeing-red mindstate when attacked by another player on a personal level).
I do regret all of the drama that this has caused, am willing to own up to my part in all this, and I'm hoping that the Council will see fit to continue discussions either here or in PM regarding moving forward. I welcome comments from others as well.
Thanks. All I can do is ask for understanding and forgiveness. Here's hopin'!
EDIT: @TCM, reread the spoiler in regards to your argument with tordeck. Cyan was effectively continuing to impune me, likely because of his warning. He had a right to be mad, but not to make it personal.
Also I welcome your input about what I said about the blurry line between Game Mods, Council, and MTGS Mods. I feel as though this needs to be clarified.
BTW, lay off of Cyan for helping get me lynched. That's not the reason I think he should be being chastised here. The reason is because he stooped to namecalling me specifically. The term IIRC was "scumbag".
The next reason he should be chastised is for making this subforum less welcoming to one of our newer, more articulate and generally pleasent to be around members (even if he is a little illogical; sorry DH :tongue:).
Anyhow, back to outlining the timeline. "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...." Wait, that's not right.... *scratchscratchscratch*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
What Artifice did broke no rules. If some players dislike it or think it's bad for the community, we need to amend the rules. What Cyan did broke not only the rules of the game, but the spirit of the game - almost beyond repair. These actions are not even in the same league.
Beyond that, both actions need to be judged of their own accord. Just because one person did something unsavory does not give others carte blanche to do the same.
To a degree this^^, although I think DragonHeart is going about it the wrong way. I'll address this later.
If you feel future behavior will require an apology, it's probably best to abstain from doing it in the first place. I wasn't trying to prove you were apologizing for the serious rule breaking, only trying to illustrate your attitude toward the game and me. You basically showed that you were going to do whatever you wanted and just apologize for it rather than show some self control.
You chose not to answer my question, where I asked you to timestamp the PM. Why is that?
Bolded section is the biggest thing from this conversation I will /barn.
The past history of Artifice's actions (including total disregard for suggestions to improve his disruptive playstyle), combined with the actions from this game make me think he deserves, at the very least an 18 month ban.
EWP: Never mind, we have a new winner for the best prose I strongly agree with:
To compare Artifice to the NHL playoffs (I know there are a handful of hockey fans in the mafia community), Artifice is like Raffi Torres.
Raffi Torres is an NHL player who had a slight disregard for the rules of the game and would take cheap shots at other players. Artifice was a mafia player who would skate along the edge of Mafia Rules (cyberstalking, spammy stubborn posting, ignoring suggestions to improve).
During the NHL playoffs this year, Raffi Torres had an insanely violent and illegal hit (which violated 3 NHL rules) on a vulnerable player who needed to be taken off the ice on a stretcher. What Artifice did to Cyberpunk rivals Raffi Torres' hit in terms of devastating results with a history of bad behavior. An extended suspension to send a message similar to the long suspension Torres received from the NHL.
Policy lynching was a staple when I first started playing on this site. Players would frequently be lynched for eccentric, poor or damaging behavior just so a normal game state could be had. The threat of a lynch is one of the best ways to curb damaging behavior, even if it hurts the town in the process. I feel like DH and tordeck are flailing their arms and shouting about a problem that doesn't exist (which seems to be happening a lot around this subforum lately). Lynching a bad townie, as a town player, can be playing towards your WC, even if it helps the scum towards there's. The Town Win Condition isn't: "Eliminate the Scum, with as many townies living at the end of the game".
Jobie, simple question: Can you please define exactly why you don't like me in the subforum, without sports metaphors that make no sense. You're comparing me to a villian to get an emotional reaction. More substance, less flash, please?
If you actually look at me as a part of this subforum, I've participated in many, many satisfying games without incident. I've been a part of improving this subforum by compiling and writing the MTGS Mafia Glossary, with the help of The Cold Monarch (tafka The Ice King) because I do care about the subforum. You are trying to imply that my behavior is similar to an NHL player that you also imply goes out of his way to try to hurt those that are defenseless. How does this even remotely compare?
You seem to have formed some personal dislike for me, which I feel is partially fueled by being mad about having lost a game so thoroughly where I was the figurehead scum for you to hate when the dust settled, and also from my posting elsewhere. Please excuse me if I dismiss your opinion as biased.
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First thing: "cyberstalking" *cracks knuckles*
To continue to use my prior methods against me is patently false. I have not used them since we discussed that they made people uncomfortable, even though I still find this argument silly: You sign up for a game where your behavior is to be judged, a player attempts to test that behavior using a real-time method of monotoring your reactions, and that's any form of stalking? Given that it was using forum tools to see what someone was doing, which is used all the time in games to determine if a player is avoiding the game, I don't see the problem and I never will.
Given that I don't see the problem, though, I have actively stopped using this method of scumhunting as requested. To continue to harrass me about it is sheer hypocricy, as harassment is a key part of stalking. So, can we please move on to the discussion at hand? To continue to say that I haven't changed my methods is to fabricate attacks against me that fly in the face of the evidence.
In my next post, I will attemt to present a timeline of what actually occured in this game (without posting PMs, unless I ask permission first, BTW) because many, many of you have NO clue what actually occured. One specific post has been altered. I'll get to that.
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@DragonHeart: I appreciate your perspective, but I think you're off base a bit. I agree with you that Cyan played poorly from the moment he said he was pretty sure I was town, but I see no willful sabotage on his part. I'd let that part go. Also recognize that Yanni specifically is so incredibly biassed against me that you will get nowhere with him.
I have more to say, obviously, but I'm posting from a NinDSi. I'll get to a keyboard later tonight.
One think Zionite could do, though, is put a timestamp on the PM from me. It is being taken heavily out of context, given that it was written before my transgressions, and was meant as a preemptive apology only for stating in game that I believed the Moderation to have been executed poorly. Nothing more.
Without a timestamp and context, it seems as though I was admitting my guilt. Simply put: I wasn't.
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Hey guys. Mafia is well outside my range of vision most of the time but I did a background search on all of those 1-posters and they are from all over. I thought Naka too, but when I started looking at email addresses they were legit and one of them has arranged online group games... They might have come in together as a group from another forum. I'll let you take that for whatever you want. If you need anything else please let me know!
I need something: why don't you play?
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Artifice, I unfortunately can't say it any different that you're wrong on the replacing out issue. By your logic, town can't win with their team once they've replaced out either, so there's no reason for anyone to do it, so in providing parting reads, they really are doing something no one should do, but it's a null tell. your logic just contradicts itself.
there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to provide parting content prior to replacing out, and I find it quite valuable.
The bolded, yet again, makes my point for me. You simultaniously say that the action is meaningless, but has some value. How is that contradiction possible?
I also find it rather disgusting that just because kpaca disagreed with you that you felt the need to accuse him of not reading the discussion.
Disgusting? Seems strong.
I actually said that I believed that kpaca hadn't read the game (or posts in the game) that we were referring to. I know kpaca read the discussion we are curently having. Did I misunderstand what you meant, Niv? Or are you misunderstanding me?
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Once again I disagree with the opinions you are throwing around as facts, and find them ironic, incorrect, and hilarious.
Also inb4: blah blah blah specifics and semantics. There is no arguing with you when you are positing a game move as dishonerable as scum and unfair as townie, because frankly I (and I think the majority of the community) recognize this as untrue. I'm sorry it bothers you, but frankly it bothers me less than role pm quoting.
Eh, we can agree to disagree then. My choices do not disqualify my opinion. We're both entitled, given our experiences.
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@Artifice: No, I've actually read the thread, and may opinion is the same. Furthermore I think it's hilarious (literally, it is making me smile due to the irony) that you are bemoaning revealing extra information as unfair when you by the actual letter of the law should be blacklisted for posting your role pm. Lol.
Inaccurate, but again, this will all be addressed in the appropriate time.
Specifically your use of the word "extra" is inaccurate. This isn't extra information from a player that still has a stake in the game. This is an unfair, alignment confirming action if the former player *key point* is a townie, and what should be considered a dishonerable move if the former player *key point* is a scum. It is a game move when a game move should be no longer allowed.
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I think that the problem here is the same problem that you always seem to have, Artifice. Just because you see something one way doesn't mean that everyone does. If anything, it seems to be exactly the opposite in most cases.
I'll accept this, because in this case it is perfect to say, "Takes one to know one." Again, any snarkiness in the previous statement is a figment of the internet.
For most people, if they replace out, they still care if their team wins.
This sentence in understandable, yet still incorrect. To repeat, when you announce you are replacing, you are no longer part of that team. We're mainly arguing when a player is still a player here. All sentiment aside, a player's participation as part of a team ends precisely in ther "/replace" post, according to the letter of the rules surrounding these posts.
They still invested their time and energy into playing the game, and they don't want to feel like that went to waste, even if they don't 'get credit for it'.
Again, misplaced sentiment. I understand that we're arguing trivialities of importance here, but that doesn't make your position any more technically correct.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with people providing some final thoughts while replacing out. Nothing at all.
Repetion is not argumentation.
Most likely it would just be chalked up as WIFOM anyway, but they still have the right to try.
Try to do what? Score points and effect the outcome of a game they are no longer participating in?
And then in your subsequent posts you appear to be agreeing with me. You, sir, have a truly dizzying intellect, to qoute a movie, which I will.
EDIT: @kpaca: if you read the one tangible example we're actually discussing, I think you would disagree.
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I think if I did the same thing and was scum that game you would not be complaining about this as an issue and call it good play.
The bolded is my point exactly. It should a a non-play action to /replace out.
You are absolutely right about a scum who is in Twilight introducing WIFOM into the game. That is great play. The game is still ongoing for them. Then, when they are dead, they should be allowed to post a contentless Bah post because they are officially dead in the game and should no longer be post content that can effect the outcome. To be specific here: Twilight is fair game.
A player who has chosen to replace out has stopped playing and should leave the game without further comment. They can no longer win the game because they are no longer playing in it. Why should they be allowed to make game moves in their final post that can effect the outcome?
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You're missing the point, Artifice - a person can simply say "these are my reads" and then in their next post say "btw replacing out lol". It's not an indicator in the slightest of their alignment. Especially since more scum replace out than town here.
No, I got that. And I said it is pointless to discuss what someone could do in that fashion. This falls under what people can do in any event to this game if they so choose (see DRey's hyperbolic "claiming my scum team in my first post" example).
I'm saying that the goodbye post conjoined with good townie language is as unfair to the game and the player's former opposing team. Note the use of the word "former": pulling a move to help their team when they are officially no longer part of that time as of the second their post hits the game should be illegal.
EDIT:
I feel as though you (Cyan) are deliberately not getting this...
How is it not enforcible to say:
"Posts announcing your intent to /replace may contain no other pertinent or substantial game information."
As I've already established, this blankets with the rule about content in Bah posts.
Except that, when added to a "I'm leaving the game" it becomes a game move that adds credence to your statements. Seperate posts, as you are suggesting, do not do this.
Why would a mafioso player, who has no further stake in the game, leave a disruptive WIFOM post? They can no longer win with their team. It is a dick move to the town. As a scum player that had this same thing happen from a townie, virtually confirming the player is telling the truth, the argument applies as well.
The existing "replace post" rules I've seen say that you are no longer allowed to add content to the game. I'm saying that rule should also include the post where you announce this intent, much like Bah posts should include no game-changing content.
It is like a "clean break" in boxing.
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"in allowing everyone to enjoy their experience" I'm part of everyone, yes?
This is akin to EDH. Some people like Group Hug decks, some people like Group Thug decks, some people like a million combos with tutors and taking extra turns, others like more "fair" win conditions (like Uril, for example, who I hate BTW).
Just because my idea of fun doesn't jive with everyone doesn't make me wrong, does it? There are lots of players here that have had plenty of fun with me and against me. It seems to be the vocal minority, many of whom have lost to me because of my methods as town and scum, that are the ones claiming to not have as much fun because of me.
Sure. Except for the part where you are trying to hold it up as:
You knew you were trying to torpedo me when you posted that PM. It was intended to preemptively apologize for the language where I blame you for the predicament that got me lynched in game, specifically where you modified role PM's when posting them to the game thread.
The fact that you changed them, as you told me behind the scenes, because you hadn't added color to them to hurry them out to the masses is poor Moderation IMO because your alteration, plus Iso's bah post, plus my own neglect for not rechecking my PM (I was Vanilla Town, why would I need to check again?) is what got me lynched.
Yes, my play was sloppy, but your choice to add information that was not previously listed in our role PMs (the color-coding) contributed to the unstable game environment that lead to my lynch.
It wasn't the sole factor, but it was a significant one.
=====================================
The Timeline:
I tried to edit down to the key points:
Notice how this is demonstrated in the opeing post as well. Also take note of Rule 8a, and remember that Rule 9 was added after this whole mess:
This post was editted. I thought this edit was due to the word "Town" being taken out. I was incorrect. This was one of my many mistakes. This mistake was prompted by Iso's claim in-game, AND the post below.
The in-game claim was appropriate. The above was not. I see how Iso felt that saying "Go Scum" would have been disingenuous, but give that Iso also staes clearly that his "Go Town" Bah post was intended as a game move in the spectator chat, I don't see how we can continue to argue about whether this was unintentional or not. He's said it was intentional. To be clear, I think he should be told never to do it again and we should all move on. That doesn't make his game action any less a part of my later confusion.
Then we have Day 2. In the opening post of Day 2, listed above, we have the Town PM's listed with Blue in their formatting.
I've been playing here for a year, and without updating my blog I'm going to guess I've played in more than 20 games, and I've read at least 15 more. In those 35+ games, blue is the accepted Town formatting.
The fact that the Mod altered the PM structure because he'd chosen to rush them out in the pregame lead me to an incorrect conclusion. Why in the world would I recheck the PM structure for what the Mod had full revealed? The full reveal should reflect the PM's in the manner in which they were sent.
I made an assumption, which got me lynched, eventually. We'll come to that.
I also thought I saw this.
Which I obviously state here.
[/QUOTE]
I, personally, think this line is uncalled for. Was reminded of it while rereading...
Oops. My bad, homie :shrug::embarrass:
Also I was more than a little confused about who got killed and how Night 1, if anyone recalls. Beyond that I was more than a lot mad that we had so many kills. 2 I was expecting, but 4? Really??
Zionite told me at one point that this whole game could have ended Night 1 with a Perfect Town Victory because there were enough kills to end it if applied just so... Yeah, swingy game is swingy. Eh, moving on...
My first confusion. My second is as follows AND this is when I sent Zionite the PM that he has so kindly listed as evidence of my mindset. It was sent in an effort to assure him that I was not attacking him personally. Asian Invasion and zindabad had both been recipients of my "under the table kicks to the shin" as Moderators, as has WoD I think.
Yep, I'ma dumb-dumb.
I made the oath about my kids about having thought I saw something, then reinforced my statement in an attempt to demonstrate that I would never say such a thing as scum. I've said in other games that I would be beyond furious if players used out of game circumstances to play as scum, in just such a way. It had never occured to me that, as everyone has pointed out, if the whole town did this the scum would have nothing to say. I mean, that is hyperbole, and a game would never devolve to such a thing, but still. I understand the point.
I was simply fighting tooth and nail not to fall prey to what I felt were two previous unfair things that had been done in the game. I'm reminded that two other wrongs don't make this wrong correct. But understand, at the time I did not register it as a wrong. I've read the MTGS Mafia rules extensively, and it was not a rule when I tried to use it. I'm sorry if this upset people.
For reference, Ged played around it as scum, as did AI and zindabad. It didn't disrupt the scum's game.
Except, I wouldn't. Ever. See this is where Cyan and I started to get crossed up. Reread the game. I stated exactly what I would have done as scum.
Again, the timeframe of the "evidence" PM.
And this is where I started to take it all personally. Which I shouldn't have, but I did.
Here Zionite semi-confirms that I'm a moron, but doesn't say anything about changing the PM colors because he knows it will have an effect on gamestate and would be unfair to the scum because it likely would have stopped my impending lynch. I posit that his initial change was unfair to me as town because it did not reflect my expectations in a "full reveal" game.
The part where Cyan gets emotional, too. Anyone barking at me about this from a previous game needs to discuss it on a more general Mafia subforum level.
I strongly object to MTGS Mods weighing into gamestates like this. Let the players play. This is two games where this has occured.
MTGS Mods should be looking for MTGS infractions, not gamestate infractions. That is not what they are there for. Regardless of how much I like TCM (which is a lot), I strongly object to this post.
This is also a true story. I wrote the flavor for the ability given to me. While it was fun doing so, I don't understand why I had to....
Again, why are MTGS Mods effecting gamestates, rather than Warning and Infracting for MTGS rules issues?
And WoD OMGUS'd me. Which he knows to be true. I chuckle.
At the time, though, it didn't make me feel any better.
And this is where, if I had been allowed to stick around, we would have lynched Ged for being non-commital.
I stand by this.
QFT
Nice little scum list right here....
Again, I repeat my request that MTGS Mods not effect game states. Correct players for their language, but not their game moves.
QFT as well.
Also, the 5 day Night didn't help.
This is where the timeline gets very wonky. Tordeck voted me, but he was the 8th player to vote me according to Zionites Votecount... He was NOT the hammer vote, and was soooooooooooo obvtown.
This post was altered because Zionite missed a vote. I was posting while he made these alterations. Then I looked back, and suddenly realized I was lynched, partially because the Mod had made yet another mistake. This also implicated tordeck as the hammer vote, which made me even madder because he was Obvtown 101.
I posted these last three posts thinking that I had a chance of swaying the town, and perhaps getting tordeck and the others to unvote me.
As I said, the votecount according to Zionite reflected that I was at L-1. Read my post just above this.
Also here. Dragonheart read the same thing.
Then here, apparently Zionite corrected the votecount. I did a doubletake. I couldn't believe it!
Eh, my misenterpretation equals all of Cyan's the whole Day 2 through.
This was where I officially lost it. I was completely aware that I was dead, and that this was a full reveal game when I made my choice to stop Cyan's personal attacks. I had just gotten done saying I would clam up as scum and self vote, and he in his irritation, said this to me. "...you seem like the type..." was the language that set me off. As though I was subhuman or something.
I posted my PM, when I was already dead, in a full reveal game.
Zionite has posted that "the town got to use that time to talk when they shouldn't have been given that chance" and if you look back, AsianInvasion and Cyan were the one's talking predominantly. As far as I can tell, thought, it did had not have an effect on the gamestate.
Am I sorry I lost it? Sure. Should I have posted my PM? Nope. Will I ever do it again? You bet your ass I won't. Did I feel justified at the time to jar Cyan out of attacking my character? You bet your ass I did.
Given all of the Moderation errors, to argue the integrity of the game was effected holds no weight.
I'm sorry I stepped mightily on the game rules, but I feel as though this situation was wholy unique. It will never be duplicated in my Mafia career.
This was me completely frustrated at the whole day/Day. My expectations were shattered, and I was beyond angry.
Cyan's immediate reaction was that I hadn't effected the game.
This post demonstrated how Zionite is completely emotional about the consequences, and I believe he is still equally as biased. I'm sorry to have put this strain on him with my actions.
Rule added after the Day I was lynched, for reference.
And DRey's kill was added to a 5 kill Night, in a Normal. After the fact, as another of the accumulating Mod errors.
Now, for reference, I am sorry that my behavior disturbed people. I did not intend for the AtE to have any other effect than reversing my lynch. There was no rule against it when I did it, so I didn't know I shouldn't do it.
As to the PM quoting, I am sorry I did that. I felt justified and cleared to do so since the game was a "Full Reveal" game and the information was pending anyway, but Zionite's observation about how could have effected the gamestate escaped me at the time I made the choice, given that I had been attacked personally so many times and given such shakey ground upon which to play. I shouldn't hav done it, but I was already dead, and the informational effect on the game was non-existent.
So, to sum up, as I've stated previously in my reply to Jobie, I am learning and adapting. I have stopped using methods that others have suggested make them uncomfortable. I feel as though my actions in Cyberpunk were very foolish, but understandable given the circumstances at the time (my lack of knowledge as to any sort of rules regarding AtE, and my shortsighted, seeing-red mindstate when attacked by another player on a personal level).
I do regret all of the drama that this has caused, am willing to own up to my part in all this, and I'm hoping that the Council will see fit to continue discussions either here or in PM regarding moving forward. I welcome comments from others as well.
Thanks. All I can do is ask for understanding and forgiveness. Here's hopin'!
EDIT: @TCM, reread the spoiler in regards to your argument with tordeck. Cyan was effectively continuing to impune me, likely because of his warning. He had a right to be mad, but not to make it personal.
Also I welcome your input about what I said about the blurry line between Game Mods, Council, and MTGS Mods. I feel as though this needs to be clarified.
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For the part of this mess that is my AtE, can you accept that I:
A) did not know it was frowned upon (since there was no overt rule against it at the time)?
B) did not mean anything against anyone personally in my posts? I was mearly zealously playing my town game.
Back to the timeline *grumblegrumble*...
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The next reason he should be chastised is for making this subforum less welcoming to one of our newer, more articulate and generally pleasent to be around members (even if he is a little illogical; sorry DH :tongue:).
Anyhow, back to outlining the timeline. "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...." Wait, that's not right.... *scratchscratchscratch*
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You chose not to answer my question, where I asked you to timestamp the PM. Why is that?
Jobie, simple question: Can you please define exactly why you don't like me in the subforum, without sports metaphors that make no sense. You're comparing me to a villian to get an emotional reaction. More substance, less flash, please?
If you actually look at me as a part of this subforum, I've participated in many, many satisfying games without incident. I've been a part of improving this subforum by compiling and writing the MTGS Mafia Glossary, with the help of The Cold Monarch (tafka The Ice King) because I do care about the subforum. You are trying to imply that my behavior is similar to an NHL player that you also imply goes out of his way to try to hurt those that are defenseless. How does this even remotely compare?
You seem to have formed some personal dislike for me, which I feel is partially fueled by being mad about having lost a game so thoroughly where I was the figurehead scum for you to hate when the dust settled, and also from my posting elsewhere. Please excuse me if I dismiss your opinion as biased.
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First thing: "cyberstalking" *cracks knuckles*
To continue to use my prior methods against me is patently false. I have not used them since we discussed that they made people uncomfortable, even though I still find this argument silly: You sign up for a game where your behavior is to be judged, a player attempts to test that behavior using a real-time method of monotoring your reactions, and that's any form of stalking? Given that it was using forum tools to see what someone was doing, which is used all the time in games to determine if a player is avoiding the game, I don't see the problem and I never will.
Given that I don't see the problem, though, I have actively stopped using this method of scumhunting as requested. To continue to harrass me about it is sheer hypocricy, as harassment is a key part of stalking. So, can we please move on to the discussion at hand? To continue to say that I haven't changed my methods is to fabricate attacks against me that fly in the face of the evidence.
In my next post, I will attemt to present a timeline of what actually occured in this game (without posting PMs, unless I ask permission first, BTW) because many, many of you have NO clue what actually occured. One specific post has been altered. I'll get to that.
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I have more to say, obviously, but I'm posting from a NinDSi. I'll get to a keyboard later tonight.
One think Zionite could do, though, is put a timestamp on the PM from me. It is being taken heavily out of context, given that it was written before my transgressions, and was meant as a preemptive apology only for stating in game that I believed the Moderation to have been executed poorly. Nothing more.
Without a timestamp and context, it seems as though I was admitting my guilt. Simply put: I wasn't.
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Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Disgusting? Seems strong.
I actually said that I believed that kpaca hadn't read the game (or posts in the game) that we were referring to. I know kpaca read the discussion we are curently having. Did I misunderstand what you meant, Niv? Or are you misunderstanding me?
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Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Specifically your use of the word "extra" is inaccurate. This isn't extra information from a player that still has a stake in the game. This is an unfair, alignment confirming action if the former player *key point* is a townie, and what should be considered a dishonerable move if the former player *key point* is a scum. It is a game move when a game move should be no longer allowed.
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This sentence in understandable, yet still incorrect. To repeat, when you announce you are replacing, you are no longer part of that team. We're mainly arguing when a player is still a player here. All sentiment aside, a player's participation as part of a team ends precisely in ther "/replace" post, according to the letter of the rules surrounding these posts.
Again, misplaced sentiment. I understand that we're arguing trivialities of importance here, but that doesn't make your position any more technically correct.
Repetion is not argumentation.
Try to do what? Score points and effect the outcome of a game they are no longer participating in?
And then in your subsequent posts you appear to be agreeing with me. You, sir, have a truly dizzying intellect, to qoute a movie, which I will.
EDIT: @kpaca: if you read the one tangible example we're actually discussing, I think you would disagree.
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You are absolutely right about a scum who is in Twilight introducing WIFOM into the game. That is great play. The game is still ongoing for them. Then, when they are dead, they should be allowed to post a contentless Bah post because they are officially dead in the game and should no longer be post content that can effect the outcome. To be specific here: Twilight is fair game.
A player who has chosen to replace out has stopped playing and should leave the game without further comment. They can no longer win the game because they are no longer playing in it. Why should they be allowed to make game moves in their final post that can effect the outcome?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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I'm saying that the goodbye post conjoined with good townie language is as unfair to the game and the player's former opposing team. Note the use of the word "former": pulling a move to help their team when they are officially no longer part of that time as of the second their post hits the game should be illegal.
EDIT:
I feel as though you (Cyan) are deliberately not getting this...
How is it not enforcible to say:
"Posts announcing your intent to /replace may contain no other pertinent or substantial game information."
As I've already established, this blankets with the rule about content in Bah posts.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Why would a mafioso player, who has no further stake in the game, leave a disruptive WIFOM post? They can no longer win with their team. It is a dick move to the town. As a scum player that had this same thing happen from a townie, virtually confirming the player is telling the truth, the argument applies as well.
The existing "replace post" rules I've seen say that you are no longer allowed to add content to the game. I'm saying that rule should also include the post where you announce this intent, much like Bah posts should include no game-changing content.
It is like a "clean break" in boxing.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats