If someone tries to use it as an argument as to why they're not scum, I'd be happy to see them lynched immediately, because they're almost definitely scum.
And while I'm at it, I'd also take note of any "Thanks" used as a barn simply due to the fact they can be removed later.
But, again, how do you prove the person "Thanked" and why should you be required to keep track? One of the defining principles of the game in a subforum is that input into the thread should be unchanging and provable. This is neither, without jumping through a grip of hoops.
Have you never seen a player caught/wagonned for the behavior of being unusually congenial? How about buddying? Or perhaps "acting helpful" (which resembles being helpful, but is subtly different). All of these things can be effected by the "Thank You" additions to posts, and can be altered without record.
The lightning edit example is not what we are talking about here, although I would think lightning editting should be understood already to be a bad idea and illegal. I've never done it, no matter how simple the error. Always afraid someone will quote me who reads quickly
I said this in the Theory thread, but seeing as the discussion is in the Council thread:
Has anybody just asked for the "Say Thank You" button to be turned off? I know you can turn off the edit function for subforums so I don't know why you couldn't the "Thank you".
I mean there is no good reason to have it and plenty of good reasons to not have it.
Actually, Tanarin and I have. Click the "Maintenance has ended. Welcome back. If you find anything out of order, please let us know!" at the top of the page.
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If that happens, you deal with it when it happens. You can make an argument for a million things being banned because 'something might happen', but that doesn't make it right.
And your hyperbole here is not an argument.
Like I've said, the fact that this is a way to have an effect on a game that cannot be easily proven if a player chooses to "take it back" without extra effort (screen captures come to mind) makes it akin to uncheckable, unverifiable editting, and since editting is already illegal in all but the most unusual circumstances, "Thanking" in ongoing games should be made illegal as well.
I'm pretty sure there are far easier ways to cheat than abusing a like system. Part of mafia is abiding by the trust spirit of the game. And while the "like" system could be abused, it violates the trust principle that all games operate on.
I like where you are going with this.
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It has as much effect as checking whether someone is reading the thread. Which is to say, it shouldn't have an effect, but it'll likely end up being used regardless unless there's an explicit rule against it.
No.
It is a recordless, non-permanent way of altering the gamestate (because a "Thank You" click is a behavior) and as such should be made illegal as a extension of host rules against editting.
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Artifice, I can still see you thanking my post...?
Correct, but you can see no evidence of it in my quote of your post.
That's what I was experimenting with.
Theory: a quoted post will have a notification of having been "Thank You'd"
Experiment: "Thank" a post, then quote said post.
Conclusion: Nope. No record of the "Thank You."
Hence why thanking posts in ongoing games, even the Mod's notifications, should be outlawed as an extension of the "No post editting." rules, already in place. There's no way to track if they've been removed or not in a game, and interactions are interactions for purposes of behavioral analysis, including this new function.
All interactions need to be indelible, and these are erasable. That is unacceptable.
EDIT: Cyan: the only way to record "Thank yous" would be to screen capture them and post them in game. And nobody wants me to start doing that.
I think there needs to be an emergency ruling on the "thank you" posts before it gets out of hand in game.
BTW my "thank you" of Arn's post was a "^^this" AND an experiment by way of the quote in the post you are now reading to see if there is any evidence left behind (which I doubt).
"Thankings" leave no evidence when removed, and should be outlawed as an additional part of the post editting rules.
EDIT: Nope, no acknowledgement of the "Thanking" record.
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If Iso screws up and doesn't PM me, please PM me when it starts. I like playing games with Arti so playing IN an Arti game sounds lovely.
Awwww, shucks! heh
Thanks for the appreciation, yo. I'll try to remember to keep you in the loop. In the mean time, Monster Island is my first Mod effort. Give it a read if you like.
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DAMMIT GUARDMAN STOP KILLING ME NIGHT ONE WHEN I'M MAFIA
Serial Killers in general have a sick obsession with killing me for some reason; in the 11 games I've played including a SK (other than myself), the SK has killed me 7 times. (I didn't count Ogre Mafia as having a SK.)
On a more relevant note, I am OK with firing an overflow Basic in instances where no other games are close to ending (which would result in a new game posting signups).
* Artifice 101 leans up against a lonely, fog enshrouded street light, trenchcoat and fedora pulled up tight against the cold, flipping a coin while casually chewing a toothpick.
"Ehhhhh, he was too smaht for his own good, so I hadda fit him for a pine overcoat, seeee?"
Anyhow, yeah more games would be ok by me. I'd love to run muh Basic fairly shortly so it can be done and in the books before my Normal
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@Manders: You do see why people think you had a hand in this, right? I'm not going to disregard what tordeck has said on the matter, but the fact remains this is the third game (Kitteh, 1984, and not Voyager) where you've been involved and someone's been Modkilled, to what seems to be (by the vocal consensus) the detriment of the game and the players.
To quote my favorite author: "Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, but three times? That's an act of war." To clarify, I don't think you're doing this maliciously, but I do think you've defaulted toModkilling as a solution too much, even if you were initially against this one. That's why you've come under fire here.
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As a player that lost in part due to this, I request that everyone chill a bit. I mean it's not like the guy ragequoted his whole PM in twilight or something....
* Artifice 101 ducks and covers.
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hold on, lemme bust out my MLA citation guideline... you realize that the particular standard you want used is clunky for this instance right?
I do. Which is why I want to know if it would pass.
See, I agree with you that your Modkill was bad. I think the reason for that, though, has more to do with why modkilling for PM qouting exists. You could have rephrased more vaguely (as demonstrated by me) but did what you did clear you by way of how it was phrased/copied/restated? Nah. And that is why you shouldn't have been killed.
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Hence why I said, "Star Trek injecter thingie" above. Then again, that still reads as a flavorful paraphrase. I'd love for someone like zindabad, a school teacher by trade, to come in and say if poggy's post after reading tordeck's PM about the hypospray would constitute plagerism in an acedemic setting.
That's the test that all of this needs applied to it.
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So for reference, where am I here? I haven't heard from the Council in PM or in this thread as to what's up.
To catch people up, some people who were very, very mad at me during the game seem to be much less mad at me given my statements about what happened. I accept why people were frustrated with me about Cyberpunk. [I find virtually all previous reasoning against me to be shoddy and outdated/misinformed at best and in most instances to have been demonstrated to be poorly motivated (i.e. having lost to my "moves", being someone I publicly dispise, etc.)] I chose to take things to a personal level in an effort to play in what I felt was an optimal way. That was in the heat of the moment, and in poor taste. I also chose to act rashly with information I should have kept to myself because I was frustrated at a player's personal attacks and the Mod's errors. The way I went about this was very calculating, and it was not meant as a suicidal, game disrupting decision. In hindsight, though, it was a mistake as well (the bolded above is where I should have woken up).
At this point, people who have no bearing in the decision and who's opinions are skewed toward me are still weighing in on the issue. I'm hoping the Council is taking this into account as well, as observed by Arn' and others. Rather than this being a lynching or popularity contest, I'd like a sensible judgment from those with authority as to my immediate fate. Please?
tl;dr: I'd really like to be told where this leaves me based on my Cyberpunk decisions for the sake of closure for the community if nothing else. Thanks in advance.
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Have you never seen a player caught/wagonned for the behavior of being unusually congenial? How about buddying? Or perhaps "acting helpful" (which resembles being helpful, but is subtly different). All of these things can be effected by the "Thank You" additions to posts, and can be altered without record.
The lightning edit example is not what we are talking about here, although I would think lightning editting should be understood already to be a bad idea and illegal. I've never done it, no matter how simple the error. Always afraid someone will quote me who reads quickly
Actually, Tanarin and I have. Click the "Maintenance has ended. Welcome back. If you find anything out of order, please let us know!" at the top of the page.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
And your hyperbole here is not an argument.
Like I've said, the fact that this is a way to have an effect on a game that cannot be easily proven if a player chooses to "take it back" without extra effort (screen captures come to mind) makes it akin to uncheckable, unverifiable editting, and since editting is already illegal in all but the most unusual circumstances, "Thanking" in ongoing games should be made illegal as well.
I like where you are going with this.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
It is a recordless, non-permanent way of altering the gamestate (because a "Thank You" click is a behavior) and as such should be made illegal as a extension of host rules against editting.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
That's what I was experimenting with.
Hence why thanking posts in ongoing games, even the Mod's notifications, should be outlawed as an extension of the "No post editting." rules, already in place. There's no way to track if they've been removed or not in a game, and interactions are interactions for purposes of behavioral analysis, including this new function.
All interactions need to be indelible, and these are erasable. That is unacceptable.
EDIT: Cyan: the only way to record "Thank yous" would be to screen capture them and post them in game. And nobody wants me to start doing that.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
"Thankings" leave no evidence when removed, and should be outlawed as an additional part of the post editting rules.
EDIT: Nope, no acknowledgement of the "Thanking" record.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I would strongly suggest a discussion of how to handle whether or not to take spectators, and an assessment of the time of year.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Awwww, shucks! heh
Thanks for the appreciation, yo. I'll try to remember to keep you in the loop. In the mean time, Monster Island is my first Mod effort. Give it a read if you like.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
"Ehhhhh, he was too smaht for his own good, so I hadda fit him for a pine overcoat, seeee?"
Anyhow, yeah more games would be ok by me. I'd love to run muh Basic fairly shortly so it can be done and in the books before my Normal
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
@Manders: You do see why people think you had a hand in this, right? I'm not going to disregard what tordeck has said on the matter, but the fact remains this is the third game (Kitteh, 1984, and not Voyager) where you've been involved and someone's been Modkilled, to what seems to be (by the vocal consensus) the detriment of the game and the players.
To quote my favorite author: "Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, but three times? That's an act of war." To clarify, I don't think you're doing this maliciously, but I do think you've defaulted toModkilling as a solution too much, even if you were initially against this one. That's why you've come under fire here.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
As a player that lost in part due to this, I request that everyone chill a bit. I mean it's not like the guy ragequoted his whole PM in twilight or something....
* Artifice 101 ducks and covers.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
See, I agree with you that your Modkill was bad. I think the reason for that, though, has more to do with why modkilling for PM qouting exists. You could have rephrased more vaguely (as demonstrated by me) but did what you did clear you by way of how it was phrased/copied/restated? Nah. And that is why you shouldn't have been killed.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Hence why I said, "Star Trek injecter thingie" above. Then again, that still reads as a flavorful paraphrase. I'd love for someone like zindabad, a school teacher by trade, to come in and say if poggy's post after reading tordeck's PM about the hypospray would constitute plagerism in an acedemic setting.
That's the test that all of this needs applied to it.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Problem solved. That being said, this Modkill needs to be investigated, and not because of tordeck. Basically, inb4 DRey gets here, all fired up.
This kill was bad on mre than one level, and we need to have clearer rules on paraphrasing situationally.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
To catch people up, some people who were very, very mad at me during the game seem to be much less mad at me given my statements about what happened. I accept why people were frustrated with me about Cyberpunk. [I find virtually all previous reasoning against me to be shoddy and outdated/misinformed at best and in most instances to have been demonstrated to be poorly motivated (i.e. having lost to my "moves", being someone I publicly dispise, etc.)] I chose to take things to a personal level in an effort to play in what I felt was an optimal way. That was in the heat of the moment, and in poor taste. I also chose to act rashly with information I should have kept to myself because I was frustrated at a player's personal attacks and the Mod's errors. The way I went about this was very calculating, and it was not meant as a suicidal, game disrupting decision. In hindsight, though, it was a mistake as well (the bolded above is where I should have woken up).
At this point, people who have no bearing in the decision and who's opinions are skewed toward me are still weighing in on the issue. I'm hoping the Council is taking this into account as well, as observed by Arn' and others. Rather than this being a lynching or popularity contest, I'd like a sensible judgment from those with authority as to my immediate fate. Please?
tl;dr: I'd really like to be told where this leaves me based on my Cyberpunk decisions for the sake of closure for the community if nothing else. Thanks in advance.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats