ok i understand, but i never have this problem my mana base allows me to leave a fetch on the field with a shock/basic in the deck along with sejiri steppe, and still hit for 20 dmg, not counting exalted triggers.
8 fetchlands + 5 shock + 5 basics is where i'm at, although my list splashes blue very lightly, but this has allowed me to save an attacking knight from removal and win.
You can also put out 1 fetchland, and then attack. Wait until after blockers to use up the rest of your fetchlands. That way you can't be screwed up by blockers after you have no more fetches left.
Initial thoughts about this build
When I first built a list, I had more one-off cards like Spellskite and Restoration Angel. After laying everything out physically on the table, I realized that I wanted a build that applied high pressure non-stop, and threatened to combo at any time. This is why I have minimal pure disruption (4 Paths), and only 1 "utility" creature (Eternal Witness).
The desire to maximize my beatdown did lead to an abundance of 3 drops. Obviously these are great if your mana dork survives. If not, you are stuck doing nothing until turn three. This is one reason why I am running 4 Qasali Pridemage. After one night, I am sure 4 is the right number.
Round 1 - Esper Control Combo
This opponent was playing an esper control deck (Supreme Verdict, Condescend, etc) but with an oddball win strategy of Brilliant Ultimatium. Game 1 he managed to board wipe and Path and Counter until he hit 7 mana and Ultimatiumed into Part the Waterveil, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, and other stuff. I died. In the next game I was able to pull off a turn 3 kill. Being on the play helps. In game 3, I ran out a bunch of mana dorks and a couple of pridemages. Then Knight turned a forest into a Gavony Township for the surprise damage and kill.
Win 2-1
Round 2 - Infect
This opponent was playing UG Infect with Noble Hierarch, Pendelhaven, and all that good stuff. Game 1 I let down my guard on turn 3 (I had to put out some pressure) and he one-shot me with Become Immense on his Inkmoth Nexus. Game 2 I Pathed an early threat, played a Knight turn 3, and combo'ed him out on turn 4. He hadn't seen this before and was distressed. In game 3, my overwhelming number of Spellskites gave him a lot of trouble. He blew some up, and I played Retreat to Coralhelm. He played Might of Old Krosa on a creature (in his main phase of course) and I got to have fun with a fetchland during declaration of attackers step. He was not happy. Eventually a Qasali Pridemage blew up his Inkmoth Nexus and I had the win.
Win 2-1
Round 3 - Esper Control (Standard variety)
These games were quite hard and long, in a large part due to Secure the Wastes buying my opponent lots of time, and Sphinx's Revelation putting me far behind on card advantage. Fortunately, Gavony Township excels at making every creature a threat, and I run 4 Geist of Saint Traft. He nearly stabilized with Elspeth, Sun's Champion, but Celestial Colonnade came over the top with Exalted to kill her in one shot. Eventually rebuying Geist with Eternal Witness put the first game away. Game 2 was similar - pressure him just enough to force a board wipe, then immediately deploy another large threat. Late in the game he had a large Secure the Wastes and decided to get aggressive when all I had was Knight of the Reliquary. But I had Retreat to Coralhelm and enough fetchlands to tap down 3 tokens and a manland when he activated it during the declare blockers step.
Win 2-0
Round 4 - Grixis Twin
This is one of the top decks (and better players) at our FNM. I enjoyed his foil RK Post-modified promo Serum Visions. I had a foil Forest! Game 1 was all about Remand. He Remanded my turn 2 play, and then the same spell again turn 3. I didn't hit a 4th mana source, so he Remanded my next two spells as well. This kept him from comboing off (these were Pridemages), but after the 4th Remand he had enough mana to also drop a faerie and combo out on his turn.
Game 2 I kept a nice opener with Hierarch, Spellskite, Loxodon Smiter, and Wilt-leaf Liege. Of course, he bolted the bird. But then I got to resolve Spellskite, which I knew was a problem for him. I then played Smiter, and on my end step his un-spent mana was used to Peek. He carefully interpreted the dual-pump nature of Liege, and then hit my Spellskite with Kolaghan's Command and made me discard a card. Oops. I dropped Wilt-leaf Liege into play and he conceded one turn later. He revealed he had a pair of Pyroclasms but not enough red mana to sweep me. Good to know - I sided in all 3 Dromoka's Command.
Game 3 we went back and forth, I continually tried to threaten disruption of the Twin combo by Spellskite, Pridemage, or Path. He had trouble pulling ahead on card advantage, because he was (rightly) unable to use K-Command to make me discard. He thought he was doing well when he dropped Keranos, God of Storms. Unfortunately for him, I had Dromoka's Command to pump one of my creatures and kill Keranos. Gavony Township had gotten going with my small creatures whittling him down, and without the cards and bolts from Keranos, I finished him off.
Qasali Pridemage was a top performer all night. He applied significant pressure on his own, pushed Geist over the top, and disrupted all the combos I faced.
I never had to cast Chord of Calling, because each time I was going to, I was able to combo out first. I think it is good for pulling out the combo at opponent's end-of-turn, or grabbing Spellskite or Witness, so I don't want to take it out.
Running 2x Township was also big. That land does so much for our ability to threaten with any creature. And we need to get it without having to tutor with Knight.
Finally, running 4 Geist of Saint Traft again seemed the right choice. While I did take it out against Grixis (because of opposing Snapcasters and better SB cards), it excelled because it was always good for at least 4 damage, and it forced opponents on their back foot as early as turn 2.
Can't argue with a 4 - 0 finish but you have 18 3 drops and you actually went down a dork instead of running the full set. The potential benefit of Colonnade vs the downside seems skewed as well.
Looking forward to hearing some rationale, which decks did you play against?
I like the idea of Chord of Calling by the way and I've been a proponent of Liege in this thread for a while.
I ran seven dorks out of habit - it is what I did in the old Kiki-Pod days. The intent is to reduce the number of double-dork hands. Kiki-Pod did have six two-mana plays, while we only have four. I would love to run more, but I didn't want to run Voice of Resurgence due to its "just a grizzly bears" nature against combo. It may very well be correct to run either then 8th dork, or at least a couple of Voice. I'm just not sure what to cut. Probably the Witness.
The Celestial Colonnade's purpose is to provide an evasive finisher against board wipes, and go over the top against planeswalkers that gum up the board like various Elspeths and such. I envisioned it as a last-fetch with KotR. In the event that he doesn't make it through for damage, you can follow up with Colonnade. However the activation cost is very high. But we really want evasion. I think Treetop Village might be the right choice in this slot, as it works great with Exalted and doesn't use our entire turn when we activate it.
Overall, I am glad I tuned the maindeck for maximum pressure, and kept bullet creatures in the side. This is largely possible due to Qasali Pridemage. The sideboard still needs work, particularly those one-off slots. I just really wanted to Meddling Mage on Primeval Titan against Amulet-Bloom, which is probably not worth the slot.
Has anyone tested a bant faeries brew? With kotr to fetch mutavault and in there for coralhelm combo? Also maybe bring to light with a kiki jiki dryad arbor combo?
Unfortunately, Kiki requires 5 colors for Bring to Light and triple red to cast naturally. This makes him very awkward in an otherwise Bant deck.
Technically, I didn't drop a match last night, but 1/0/2 is nothing to write home about. Beat amulet, went to time against Bant ghostway and Junk token/evolutionary leap. I think I overcompensated with durdly value cards after my Jund losses last time.
I'm tinkering with my own build, not there yet. But I like the plan of a early aggro deck with mana dorks, Geist, and Chord for the odd toolbox or combo tutor. I had some thoughts on two posts from earlier.
I am going to try out Unified Will tonight instead of negate in my board to see how it works. I am playing the Zoo variant, so I should have enough creatures to make this happen.
I played a very small modern FNM last night and went 2-1 (1 bye). Not really worth an entire tournament report, but played 4color chord and ad nausem.
4c Chord - 1-2 L
Game 1 we get to parity and then Kiki-jiki Restoration angel combo went off.
Game 2 I am slightly ahead on board state with 2 pride mages, some nacatls and a retreat. I fire off CoCo EoT and get a knight and geist. He paths the knight, but I already have a wolf-run in play and he has 6 life and no fliers. GG.
Game 3 Comes down to the wire, he has a huge board with tons of chump blockers and a voice out. He is at 10 life, I am at 16, I have 2 KotR, 2x Pridemages, Nacatl and Voice. I have 3 mana up, and he has a spellskite in play. I have Retreat in hand. I decide to path his voice, he chords in a kiki and clones the voice for a turn. This leaves up 2 white blockers and I have 2 mana no available. Combo won't work because of spellskite and if I swing with everything I can only do 9 damage. I try to go for the combo to see if he will make a mistake and he doesn't. I end up losing by his combo next turn. However, he told me I had it won if I had fetched Sejiri Steppe. The steppe only gives protection to a creature YOU control so I would have been able to swing for the win. Good lesson learned.
Ad nausem - 2-0
Game 1 - beats get there after pride mage blows up Phyrexian Unlife.
Game 2 - Hate bears do their magic. Turn 2 Meddling Mage on ad nausem. Followed by thalia, followed by stony silence. Beat down with goyfs and nacatls.
I am playing again today. I'll let you guys know how that goes as well.
I played a lot of Kiki-Pod back in the day. Qasali Pridemage has a lot more uses than you'd think, and is a great card even when you aren't using his ability. I think he definitely deserves inclusion, and is a nice turn 2 play when your turn 1 mana dork gets killed.
But does it stop anything outside linear combo? ad nasuem, living end... ok i can accept those, great gotcha card. But Tron? ok i can't play Karn? heres pyroclasm or Ugin or oblivion stone, ohh now i can play Karn, cool. Junk/jund? do you name removal? they play a very diverse set of removal, shut down abrupt decay, and terminate or path or bolt are all going to destroy your bear. name a threat and said removal will unlock it again. And it doesn't shut off a 4-of, it might shut off a card that they have 4-of in the deck but don't confuse that with shutting out 4 cards in their hand. They have to be holding it and not have a way remove the mage. And it is not the same great screw card like Blood Moon is or ensnaring bridge, its a bear with a potential upside. I just don't get why you wouldn't want to dedicate a SB slot to something thats guaranteed to be stronger. especially since theres no way to protect the mage to keep them locked out. its going to be an annoyance, not an answer
Meddling Mage is great in the Amulet/Bloom matchup, where you would name Primeval Titan. Unless they luck out on their enchant kill, you've effectively stifled their main game plan. I can also see naming Cranial Plating in the Affinity matchup, or other game-breaking cards in other matchups. It can also be used as protection against a combo attempt. For example, naming Path to Exile
You can also put out 1 fetchland, and then attack. Wait until after blockers to use up the rest of your fetchlands. That way you can't be screwed up by blockers after you have no more fetches left.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
(Organized by mana cost and now with my full SB.)
Initial thoughts about this build
When I first built a list, I had more one-off cards like Spellskite and Restoration Angel. After laying everything out physically on the table, I realized that I wanted a build that applied high pressure non-stop, and threatened to combo at any time. This is why I have minimal pure disruption (4 Paths), and only 1 "utility" creature (Eternal Witness).
The desire to maximize my beatdown did lead to an abundance of 3 drops. Obviously these are great if your mana dork survives. If not, you are stuck doing nothing until turn three. This is one reason why I am running 4 Qasali Pridemage. After one night, I am sure 4 is the right number.
Round 1 - Esper Control Combo
This opponent was playing an esper control deck (Supreme Verdict, Condescend, etc) but with an oddball win strategy of Brilliant Ultimatium. Game 1 he managed to board wipe and Path and Counter until he hit 7 mana and Ultimatiumed into Part the Waterveil, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, and other stuff. I died. In the next game I was able to pull off a turn 3 kill. Being on the play helps. In game 3, I ran out a bunch of mana dorks and a couple of pridemages. Then Knight turned a forest into a Gavony Township for the surprise damage and kill.
Win 2-1
Round 2 - Infect
This opponent was playing UG Infect with Noble Hierarch, Pendelhaven, and all that good stuff. Game 1 I let down my guard on turn 3 (I had to put out some pressure) and he one-shot me with Become Immense on his Inkmoth Nexus. Game 2 I Pathed an early threat, played a Knight turn 3, and combo'ed him out on turn 4. He hadn't seen this before and was distressed. In game 3, my overwhelming number of Spellskites gave him a lot of trouble. He blew some up, and I played Retreat to Coralhelm. He played Might of Old Krosa on a creature (in his main phase of course) and I got to have fun with a fetchland during declaration of attackers step. He was not happy. Eventually a Qasali Pridemage blew up his Inkmoth Nexus and I had the win.
Win 2-1
Round 3 - Esper Control (Standard variety)
These games were quite hard and long, in a large part due to Secure the Wastes buying my opponent lots of time, and Sphinx's Revelation putting me far behind on card advantage. Fortunately, Gavony Township excels at making every creature a threat, and I run 4 Geist of Saint Traft. He nearly stabilized with Elspeth, Sun's Champion, but Celestial Colonnade came over the top with Exalted to kill her in one shot. Eventually rebuying Geist with Eternal Witness put the first game away. Game 2 was similar - pressure him just enough to force a board wipe, then immediately deploy another large threat. Late in the game he had a large Secure the Wastes and decided to get aggressive when all I had was Knight of the Reliquary. But I had Retreat to Coralhelm and enough fetchlands to tap down 3 tokens and a manland when he activated it during the declare blockers step.
Win 2-0
Round 4 - Grixis Twin
This is one of the top decks (and better players) at our FNM. I enjoyed his foil RK Post-modified promo Serum Visions. I had a foil Forest! Game 1 was all about Remand. He Remanded my turn 2 play, and then the same spell again turn 3. I didn't hit a 4th mana source, so he Remanded my next two spells as well. This kept him from comboing off (these were Pridemages), but after the 4th Remand he had enough mana to also drop a faerie and combo out on his turn.
Game 2 I kept a nice opener with Hierarch, Spellskite, Loxodon Smiter, and Wilt-leaf Liege. Of course, he bolted the bird. But then I got to resolve Spellskite, which I knew was a problem for him. I then played Smiter, and on my end step his un-spent mana was used to Peek. He carefully interpreted the dual-pump nature of Liege, and then hit my Spellskite with Kolaghan's Command and made me discard a card. Oops. I dropped Wilt-leaf Liege into play and he conceded one turn later. He revealed he had a pair of Pyroclasms but not enough red mana to sweep me. Good to know - I sided in all 3 Dromoka's Command.
Game 3 we went back and forth, I continually tried to threaten disruption of the Twin combo by Spellskite, Pridemage, or Path. He had trouble pulling ahead on card advantage, because he was (rightly) unable to use K-Command to make me discard. He thought he was doing well when he dropped Keranos, God of Storms. Unfortunately for him, I had Dromoka's Command to pump one of my creatures and kill Keranos. Gavony Township had gotten going with my small creatures whittling him down, and without the cards and bolts from Keranos, I finished him off.
Qasali Pridemage was a top performer all night. He applied significant pressure on his own, pushed Geist over the top, and disrupted all the combos I faced.
I never had to cast Chord of Calling, because each time I was going to, I was able to combo out first. I think it is good for pulling out the combo at opponent's end-of-turn, or grabbing Spellskite or Witness, so I don't want to take it out.
Running 2x Township was also big. That land does so much for our ability to threaten with any creature. And we need to get it without having to tutor with Knight.
Finally, running 4 Geist of Saint Traft again seemed the right choice. While I did take it out against Grixis (because of opposing Snapcasters and better SB cards), it excelled because it was always good for at least 4 damage, and it forced opponents on their back foot as early as turn 2.
I ran seven dorks out of habit - it is what I did in the old Kiki-Pod days. The intent is to reduce the number of double-dork hands. Kiki-Pod did have six two-mana plays, while we only have four. I would love to run more, but I didn't want to run Voice of Resurgence due to its "just a grizzly bears" nature against combo. It may very well be correct to run either then 8th dork, or at least a couple of Voice. I'm just not sure what to cut. Probably the Witness.
The Celestial Colonnade's purpose is to provide an evasive finisher against board wipes, and go over the top against planeswalkers that gum up the board like various Elspeths and such. I envisioned it as a last-fetch with KotR. In the event that he doesn't make it through for damage, you can follow up with Colonnade. However the activation cost is very high. But we really want evasion. I think Treetop Village might be the right choice in this slot, as it works great with Exalted and doesn't use our entire turn when we activate it.
Overall, I am glad I tuned the maindeck for maximum pressure, and kept bullet creatures in the side. This is largely possible due to Qasali Pridemage. The sideboard still needs work, particularly those one-off slots. I just really wanted to Meddling Mage on Primeval Titan against Amulet-Bloom, which is probably not worth the slot.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
2x Breeding Pool
1x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Kitchen Finks
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Loxodon Smiter
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Chord of Calling
4x Path to Exile
4x Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Aven Mindcensor
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Unfortunately, Kiki requires 5 colors for Bring to Light and triple red to cast naturally. This makes him very awkward in an otherwise Bant deck.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
You'd certainly have the element of surprise. Spellstutter Sprite is actually pretty great in Modern, where 3/4 of the cards cost 3 or less mana.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
I played a lot of Kiki-Pod back in the day. Qasali Pridemage has a lot more uses than you'd think, and is a great card even when you aren't using his ability. I think he definitely deserves inclusion, and is a nice turn 2 play when your turn 1 mana dork gets killed.
Meddling Mage is great in the Amulet/Bloom matchup, where you would name Primeval Titan. Unless they luck out on their enchant kill, you've effectively stifled their main game plan. I can also see naming Cranial Plating in the Affinity matchup, or other game-breaking cards in other matchups. It can also be used as protection against a combo attempt. For example, naming Path to Exile
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo