There is also Shield of the Oversoul, which makes green creatures permanently indestructible and the white side isn't that terrible either.
Edit: Fun fact: I sometimes ask people if they know 2 commons, which can create a 5/4 Flying, Indestructible, Shroud on turn 3 in pauper and no one I've asked so far knew both (Naya Hushblade + Shield of the Oversoul).
Another question to ask is: In 360, how many draw/filter spells is the threshold for a Blue section?
I run prob 5 hard CA draw spells, and prob another 4 or so Filter to roj d out my support for basic archetypes.
I have to say that I don't really bother that much with balancing different card types. Since my cube is after all still a powered cube I usually simply add my cards by powerlevel from top down. Exceptions are of course mana curve among creatures, color balancing, archetypes and some card types, like e.g. that I try to add some weaker counterspells, because I feel like I have too little counterspells over all and that the existing ones become stronger by having more. If I feel like a card draw spell/cantrip is above average I will try to squeeze it in and if not, I don't have a set amount I want to have.
@Cobble:
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long response. Something I want to discuss though: Winged Words: Very rarely you want to cast card draw on turn 2. The only spot where you would want to do this if you kept a 2 land hand and are about to miss your 3rd land drop. Card draw is usually the last thing you want to cast from your hand, when you no longer have anything else to play, so the drawback of not casting it turn 2 seems really negligible. I didn't realise it, when the set was first released, but 16 out of my 27 blue creatures fly anyway, so this is pretty consistent.
Witching Well: I think this card is better, the more I think about it, than people (including me) have realised, when it was realeased. It's basically Inspiration/Hieroglyphic Illumination with Scry 2, for no additional cost if you play it on turn 1. The fact that the draw effect is instant speed makes this really solid. I'm not so high on Foresee nowadays, because it can be really hard to take a turn off to resolve this.
Also during draft a lot tend to stay monocolored, because of the densitiy of "bombs" in one each color.
Mono color rarely happens in my cube. Not that you wouldn't be able get enough playables in one color (we recently stopped after 2 packs and simply made our decks from 2x 15 boosters, just because everyone felt like they had a decent deck already), but very often there is at least a single card in a different color, that is worth the splash and while you are playing a 2nd color anyway you can also play some additional cards from that color. There are also the multicolor cards which are hard to pass, since most of them are stronger than the average monocolor card.
3c is usually unnecessary, but I personally like building grindy 3c goodstuff decks, especially grixis and my personal pet archetype mardu control.
I don't really offer much in the way of monocolor support since it happens so rarely and black is the only color, which has some decent payoff for it anyway (Gray Merchant of Asphodel/Tendrils of Corruption). There isn't much incentive to stay monocolored apart from that. How about the rest, how frequently do you see monocolored decks?
Picking the best card in 4 and putting it into you hand is stronger than Omen of the Sea. I like Omen on it's own merits, but Impulse is clearly stronger. Sure no one is talking about Shimmer of Possibility, but it goes to show how much better being instant speed is in Blue. We're a bit short on strong Blue 2 mana instant cantraps. There's a gulf between Anticipate which is not regarded well even in Standard and Impulse which I regard strong. Omen of the Sea is the Serum Visions in this situation. Ok, cashing in for the scry 2 is decent, but I would take up front dig any day.
I'm not sure about the Omen vs. Impulse, but the Omen seems to be at least a solid upgrade over Anticipate, which is totally playable, it's just outclassed by Impulse
This made me wonder, now that we have discussed counters, how would all of you rank blue noncreature Card advantage draw (2+) and manipulation? I count them together in this case, because many of our card advantage draw spells also provide manipulation (e.g. Scry).
I think Drake is worse than the 3/3 flash flyer and those are already pretty borderline. on turn 5+ a 2/3 is just too small even when it virtually costs 0. also the drake is too unique and you want more than just one creature. Drakw also can just be bolted whilte untap is on the stack.
I think a 2/3 flier is relevant at any point in the game, or else Mulldrifter wouldn't be as busted as it is. I understand that the mechanic was insanely broken and way too easily abuseable. but it's still kind of sad that there aren't more cards like the drake.
Your opponent can also eot bolt your flash creature, before you untap. The drake at least didn't take up any mana in that case.
I know what to do with blue, I simply have some flex slots and since blue is curretnly the only color, that has no special archetype (Swarm in WRG and Sacrifice in B) I was wondering if blue needs to have it's own thing, since it's barely compatible with any of the other archetypes.
I'm actually not a huge fan of flash, since you often want to use flash during combat and counter after combat. A good creature for a counter strategy is e.g. Peregrine Drake, which you can simply slam at any time, once you reach 5 and unless it gets countered itself, you will always have mana up to do whatever.
I've actually readded Impulse. You don't need to have specifically flash, but simply instant speed cards, that allow you to do something else with your mana, if you don't counter.
The reason why I rate Arcane Denial so highly is because it's a great fit in tempo decks that want your opponent to never empty their hand.
Playing a tempo deck, that aims to kill the opponent before they can play their hand to the full extend, doesn't mean that you have to actually fuel their hand with additional gas. No matter how much bounce you play it's also not for you to decide if this plan works. Against a super low curve aggro deck this plan will certainly not work.
I think Disdainful Stroke has potential in the right deck. I just think that it will end up as draft chaff (instead of a more universally useful card), and I don't like how it can't counter almost any White card.
I personally don't consider Arcane Denial cubeable at all. This card is only good in formats/decks, where card advantage doesn't matter like commander or some combo decks. In limited this card can very easily kill you. It doesn't generate more tempo than any other cmc 2 counterspell and in a real tempo deck I don't think counterspells are really good at all, except for like Daze and Force Spike.
Memory Lapse is baiscally paupers time walkRemand". I mean it's Time Walk in a way except for the whole taking a turn thing.
Memory Lapse is usually worse than a hard counter, since it only delays a threat you have to deal with on your next turn. On the other hand it's better than Remand most of the time, because if you counter a cheap threat with Remand you opponent will simply cast it again the very same turn, while it doesn't really matter what you counter with Memory Lapse. It's very similar to Chittering Rats in that regard.
The biggest question from my side is XU Counters vs. Essence Scatters. Any more opinions on that?
I'm also interested if I'm the only one who thinks, that Disdainful Stroke has a lot of potential.
I've decided not to run the Welkin Terns and for now also decided against Flicker combo and instead went with simply more goodstuff and more counterspells, because I felt like I had too few. While doing this I wondered, how do you rank the counterspells?
How do you rank the following:
-XU Counters (Power Sink/Syncopate/Broken Ambitions): The additional effects can mostly be ignored, IMO. They can counter everything on curve for 1U, but can be become quite mana intense later and outright bad if you are mana screwed or play against green with a lot of acceleration.
-Confound: A pet card of mine. It's mostly a weaker Shelter, but still pretty solid.
-Deprive: Unconditional cmc 2 Counter with tempo drawback. Bad early, doesn't matter later.
-Disdainful Stroke: I've only recently realised that this card might be really good as it hits pretty much all of the high impact cards, you actually want to counter. When it hits it's a guaranteed tempo gain.
-Dissolve: The best [card]Cancel/card].
-Creature Counter (Essence Scatter/False Summoning/Remove Soul): Narrow, but still creature removal for cmc 2.
-Force Spike: Good early, often useless later.
-Logic Knot: Bad early, good late.
-Memory Lapse: It feels more like a bounce spell than a Counter, but it technically is one. It's not really a permanent out, but instead buys you time to find one.
-Negate: Interesting in combination with the creature Counters.
-Prohibit: By far not as good as it is in constructed, but still not unplayable. It can't be better than going even or even in the negative tempo-wise.
The blue flier aggro package was simply my first idea for what to do with the free slots from all the auras and hexproof dudes I cut. Just because Desert exists as one of 360 cards in my cube I'm not gonna abandon all X/1s. Sure aggro decks suck against all of the red spells that can hit multiple targets, which is why I like playing Rx control decks so much.
Alternatively I'm also considering to maybe try out the Ghostly Flicker combo once more. If I'm not not statisfied with either of those options I will most likely simply add some goodstuff, especially counterspells. I'm always surprised how few actual good counterspells pauper has since there haven't been any good ones for sooooo long, but people want to play counter heavy control and you need enough instant speed for counters to actually be good.
@Cobble: Burn Trail sure is sick with enough Tokens to consistently enable Conspire. Not just because it can deal 6 to the face (unlike Magma Burst), but because it can deal 3 damage to 2 different targets and you can decide depending on the situation.
I would definitely run Reckless Abandon over Artillerize. 3 mana difference is huge.
I don't think I have enough ways to get value out of the grave for Faithless Looting. It sure is a fine card filter spell, even without payoff, but the real power lies in getting value from what you discard.
I'm not really sure what I would want to cut for any of the onedrops. Giantbaiting is a pet card of mine, that has been in my cube for the most time, even before I added swarm as an archetype, because you don't need 2 creatures of the same color, but simply 2 creatures if you are in GR. Maybe it comes back in one day.
I've dedicated some slots towards white control, and Basilica Guards has been one of them before. For now I don't really have anything to cut for it.
I think Rain of Revelation is an excellent card. You rarely want to cycle Hieroglyphic Illumination and the Rain is simply more value. It outclassed Foresee, which has been a mainstay for many cubes over years.
Well the cmc 2 fliers simply make for a nice creature curve in blue. It also feels cool to get value out of Warden of Evos Isle and Winged Words. Maybe we will one day get Favorable Winds, even though I highly doubt it.
i think you want the drafter to decide what they play. so if someone put an aura on a non-hexproof its his choice and both flights, as well as greens +3+3 ones are good enough for that.
I can also put in bad cards, just in case someone wants to play them. Putting an aura on an unprotected creature in the context of most pauper cubes is a really bad idea in most cases. This is not the original Theros. I sure could have some auras without valueable targets, but they will simply end up not being drafted. Even though my cube is quite beginner friendly I usually draft with very experienced players (Gp grinders, some pt competitors) so no one there would draft these cards.
Primal Huntbeast+Spectral Flight
imho is enough synergy to win the game. no need to go all in.
Well with only a single Huntbeast and a single Spectral Flight in 360 cards it's pretty unlikely, that anyone will ever get them in a deck, and then that person still needs to draw booth in a reasonable amount of time.
The question is how the ratio of hexproof to auras has to be. A drafter, who wants to go this route should access to booth type of cards consistently in order for the deck to do, what it's supposed to do. I don't like the idea of putting auras on non-protected creatures. I've ran Phantom Nomad amd Phantom Tiger as some interesting alternatives, because at least against green and red, being immune to damage is even better than hexproof.
I just invested like 1 hour to make the changes I imagined (Link) and I'm quite happy with the result. I will definitely test this, when I get the chance to cube the next time.
There are several reasons why I'm interested in making a huge change to my cube like this:
1. I haven't had major changes to my cube for a while and I want to test something different. There were so few flex slots, that it's really hard to fit anything new in.
2. I've already recived negative feedback on hexproof, because it simply limits interaction and I agree with that criticism, but defended it, with the argument, that the removal is just sooo efficient in pauper, that it's really punishing to get tempoed out due to spending too much mana on your creatures, compared to the cost of removal.
If it turns out, that it isn't necessary to have hexproof in the cube in order for green to be viable I'm really happy.
3. This has opened up an incredible amount of slots, I can use to experiment with different cards. E.g. I decided to use the free blue slots for a bunch of fliers, to make aggressive blue decks a thing again, since I really like it when all the colors have access to all the different archetypes, in the same way as I've dedicated some slots towards red and white control.
I'm also tinkering with the idea of readding the Ghostly Flicker - Archaeomancer combo. Alternatively I can also just fill the slots with a bunch of goodstuff and counterspells, to make control more counter heavy again.
Archetype support is a very tricky thing.
When you don't dedicate enough spots towards it, the decks might not come together and people with only a half dedicated pool will feel bad, this will happen especially, when you don't draft the whole cube. When you comit too much into it, you might be forcing someone in that color to play the archetype, which is exactly not what I want, at least for my cube. My goal is to give drafters the tools to do whatever they want.
In order to make Gx Stompy more viable I've actually added the Elves I wasn't playing before, because the most powerful green, the weakest color, can do, is to play a turn 1 elf into 3-4 drops on the following turns.
Edit: Fun fact: I sometimes ask people if they know 2 commons, which can create a 5/4 Flying, Indestructible, Shroud on turn 3 in pauper and no one I've asked so far knew both (Naya Hushblade + Shield of the Oversoul).
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Thank you for taking the time to write such a long response. Something I want to discuss though:
Winged Words: Very rarely you want to cast card draw on turn 2. The only spot where you would want to do this if you kept a 2 land hand and are about to miss your 3rd land drop. Card draw is usually the last thing you want to cast from your hand, when you no longer have anything else to play, so the drawback of not casting it turn 2 seems really negligible. I didn't realise it, when the set was first released, but 16 out of my 27 blue creatures fly anyway, so this is pretty consistent.
Witching Well: I think this card is better, the more I think about it, than people (including me) have realised, when it was realeased. It's basically Inspiration/Hieroglyphic Illumination with Scry 2, for no additional cost if you play it on turn 1. The fact that the draw effect is instant speed makes this really solid. I'm not so high on Foresee nowadays, because it can be really hard to take a turn off to resolve this.
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3c is usually unnecessary, but I personally like building grindy 3c goodstuff decks, especially grixis and my personal pet archetype mardu control.
I don't really offer much in the way of monocolor support since it happens so rarely and black is the only color, which has some decent payoff for it anyway (Gray Merchant of Asphodel/Tendrils of Corruption). There isn't much incentive to stay monocolored apart from that. How about the rest, how frequently do you see monocolored decks?
In mono U sure you don't tap out for it on turn 4, but in a 2 color deck I find it very unlikely to play this for free before turn 5.
I'm not sure about the Omen vs. Impulse, but the Omen seems to be at least a solid upgrade over Anticipate, which is totally playable, it's just outclassed by Impulse
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A short list of the top of my mind about the relevant contenders:
Brainstorm, Compulsive Research, Deep Analysis, Foresee/Tamiyo's Epiphany, Gush, Omen of the Sea, Impulse, Opt, Preordain, Portent, Ponder, Rain of Revelation, Radical Idea, Rush of Knowledge, Scour All Possibilities, Serum Visions, Think Twice, Treasure Cruise, Winged Words, Witching Well
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I think a 2/3 flier is relevant at any point in the game, or else Mulldrifter wouldn't be as busted as it is. I understand that the mechanic was insanely broken and way too easily abuseable. but it's still kind of sad that there aren't more cards like the drake.
Your opponent can also eot bolt your flash creature, before you untap. The drake at least didn't take up any mana in that case.
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I'm actually not a huge fan of flash, since you often want to use flash during combat and counter after combat. A good creature for a counter strategy is e.g. Peregrine Drake, which you can simply slam at any time, once you reach 5 and unless it gets countered itself, you will always have mana up to do whatever.
I've actually readded Impulse. You don't need to have specifically flash, but simply instant speed cards, that allow you to do something else with your mana, if you don't counter.
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Except for like all the good high impact white cards, like Battle Screech, Coalition Honor Guard, Guardian of the Guildpact, Rhox Veteran, Seraph of Dawn, Custodi Squire and Faith's Fetters.
When I personally draft white I usually do so because I got an early Coalition Honor Guard or Guardian of the Guildpact.
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I personally don't consider Arcane Denial cubeable at all. This card is only good in formats/decks, where card advantage doesn't matter like commander or some combo decks. In limited this card can very easily kill you. It doesn't generate more tempo than any other cmc 2 counterspell and in a real tempo deck I don't think counterspells are really good at all, except for like Daze and Force Spike.
Memory Lapse is baiscally paupers
time walkRemand". I mean it's Time Walk in a way except for the whole taking a turn thing.Memory Lapse is usually worse than a hard counter, since it only delays a threat you have to deal with on your next turn. On the other hand it's better than Remand most of the time, because if you counter a cheap threat with Remand you opponent will simply cast it again the very same turn, while it doesn't really matter what you counter with Memory Lapse. It's very similar to Chittering Rats in that regard.
The biggest question from my side is XU Counters vs. Essence Scatters. Any more opinions on that?
I'm also interested if I'm the only one who thinks, that Disdainful Stroke has a lot of potential.
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Auto-includes power level-wise are:
Daze, Counterspell, Mana Leak, Miscalculation, Exclude and Condescend
How do you rank the following:
-XU Counters (Power Sink/Syncopate/Broken Ambitions): The additional effects can mostly be ignored, IMO. They can counter everything on curve for 1U, but can be become quite mana intense later and outright bad if you are mana screwed or play against green with a lot of acceleration.
-Confound: A pet card of mine. It's mostly a weaker Shelter, but still pretty solid.
-Deprive: Unconditional cmc 2 Counter with tempo drawback. Bad early, doesn't matter later.
-Disdainful Stroke: I've only recently realised that this card might be really good as it hits pretty much all of the high impact cards, you actually want to counter. When it hits it's a guaranteed tempo gain.
-Dissolve: The best [card]Cancel/card].
-Creature Counter (Essence Scatter/False Summoning/Remove Soul): Narrow, but still creature removal for cmc 2.
-Force Spike: Good early, often useless later.
-Logic Knot: Bad early, good late.
-Memory Lapse: It feels more like a bounce spell than a Counter, but it technically is one. It's not really a permanent out, but instead buys you time to find one.
-Negate: Interesting in combination with the creature Counters.
-Prohibit: By far not as good as it is in constructed, but still not unplayable. It can't be better than going even or even in the negative tempo-wise.
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Alternatively I'm also considering to maybe try out the Ghostly Flicker combo once more. If I'm not not statisfied with either of those options I will most likely simply add some goodstuff, especially counterspells. I'm always surprised how few actual good counterspells pauper has since there haven't been any good ones for sooooo long, but people want to play counter heavy control and you need enough instant speed for counters to actually be good.
@Cobble:
Burn Trail sure is sick with enough Tokens to consistently enable Conspire. Not just because it can deal 6 to the face (unlike Magma Burst), but because it can deal 3 damage to 2 different targets and you can decide depending on the situation.
I would definitely run Reckless Abandon over Artillerize. 3 mana difference is huge.
I don't think I have enough ways to get value out of the grave for Faithless Looting. It sure is a fine card filter spell, even without payoff, but the real power lies in getting value from what you discard.
I'm not really sure what I would want to cut for any of the onedrops.
Giantbaiting is a pet card of mine, that has been in my cube for the most time, even before I added swarm as an archetype, because you don't need 2 creatures of the same color, but simply 2 creatures if you are in GR. Maybe it comes back in one day.
I've dedicated some slots towards white control, and Basilica Guards has been one of them before. For now I don't really have anything to cut for it.
I think Rain of Revelation is an excellent card. You rarely want to cycle Hieroglyphic Illumination and the Rain is simply more value. It outclassed Foresee, which has been a mainstay for many cubes over years.
Edit: Apropos Counterspells: Has anyone considered Disdainful Stroke as a decent counterspell? Most of the super impactful cards in cube all cost 4+ (e.g. Coalition Honor Guard, Guardian of the Guildpact, Mulldrifter, Capsize, Treasure Cruise, Gurmag Angler, Twisted Abomination, Pestilence, Fireball, Rolling Thunder, Blastoderm and Sprout Swarm).
It sure is conditional, but so are all the other options for counterspells at common, like Essence Scatters or UX counters.
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Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
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The question is how the ratio of hexproof to auras has to be. A drafter, who wants to go this route should access to booth type of cards consistently in order for the deck to do, what it's supposed to do. I don't like the idea of putting auras on non-protected creatures. I've ran Phantom Nomad amd Phantom Tiger as some interesting alternatives, because at least against green and red, being immune to damage is even better than hexproof.
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There are several reasons why I'm interested in making a huge change to my cube like this:
1. I haven't had major changes to my cube for a while and I want to test something different. There were so few flex slots, that it's really hard to fit anything new in.
2. I've already recived negative feedback on hexproof, because it simply limits interaction and I agree with that criticism, but defended it, with the argument, that the removal is just sooo efficient in pauper, that it's really punishing to get tempoed out due to spending too much mana on your creatures, compared to the cost of removal.
If it turns out, that it isn't necessary to have hexproof in the cube in order for green to be viable I'm really happy.
3. This has opened up an incredible amount of slots, I can use to experiment with different cards. E.g. I decided to use the free blue slots for a bunch of fliers, to make aggressive blue decks a thing again, since I really like it when all the colors have access to all the different archetypes, in the same way as I've dedicated some slots towards red and white control.
I'm also tinkering with the idea of readding the Ghostly Flicker - Archaeomancer combo. Alternatively I can also just fill the slots with a bunch of goodstuff and counterspells, to make control more counter heavy again.
Archetype support is a very tricky thing.
When you don't dedicate enough spots towards it, the decks might not come together and people with only a half dedicated pool will feel bad, this will happen especially, when you don't draft the whole cube. When you comit too much into it, you might be forcing someone in that color to play the archetype, which is exactly not what I want, at least for my cube. My goal is to give drafters the tools to do whatever they want.
In order to make Gx Stompy more viable I've actually added the Elves I wasn't playing before, because the most powerful green, the weakest color, can do, is to play a turn 1 elf into 3-4 drops on the following turns.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)