im not sure i understand how sundering titan trumps null rod,
Because Null Rod doesn't do anything to Titan. If I have a Sundering Titan in play, and my opponent has a Null Rod, then I'm the beatdown, and he's wasted a card on something that isn't going to stop me from winning the game.
and im certainly not sure how karn is a "weak link,"
Playing against a deck with Null Rod in play, Karn's nothing more than a 4/4 that can be infinitely blocked by a 0/1 creature.
if thats the case, then adding titan only makes sense to me if u have 4 crucibles in the deck and still have trouble dealing with lands.
There are three reasons for playing Titan over Crucible #4:
1)Yes, you want to draw one quickly, but after you've drawn one you don't want to see a second unless the first one got destroyed somehow, and
2)Titan destroys lands much faster than Crucible/Strip, and
3)Titan actually kills your opponent.
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You may disagree..of course that is your choice...just do not be suprised when a number of people tell you that you are wrong. Binary just laid out a number of strong points that demonstrate what myself and a lot of others point out, and you disregard it...
Maybe you are just some amazing player with tech that we arent capable of understanding, but more like I believe you are simply a short sighted player who doesnt know how to listen. Either way it is basically worthless for you to post anything here because you dont listen to our advice anyways.
The only thing I'm agreeing with here is that Titan is better than Crucible number 4. If you choose not to argue the matter further, then that's your choice...
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im not like an idiot or something, its just clear from both of your tones that im not going to change your minds, and since my opinion is in the minority, itd just be silly for me to try and change your mind.
but heres where im coming from, just in case. :tongue3:
its true that null rod doesnt do anything against titan, but unlike titan null rod serves other purposes. sundering titan is a really great creature, but duplicant is almost always better than titan creaturewise, and crucible of worlds is almost always better than titan control-wise. duplicant, karn, crucible, and null rod also have the advantage of being castable, whereas titan will almost always have to be welded in. titan essentially overcomes this disadvantage by also taking out lands when it leaves play, so it could certainly be argued that its "better" in that sense, but i hardly think that its strictly better than any of the above mentioned cards. if it werent for the fact that karn can go mox monkey if he needs to i would say that the titan is prolly better than him, but i think that they are equally good in the role of beatdown. also, while its true that sundering titan isnt shut down by null rod as badly as karn (as mentioned before :tongue3:,) 4 goblin welders and 4 smokestacks should be able to take care of an opposing null rod pretty quickly. in any case, its my experience that barbarian ring or a duplicant-ed akroma/darksteel colossus/whatever usually kills the opponent a lot more than one of your own creatures anyway, so it just seems redundant to use sundering titan. the reason that *i* think 4x crucible of worlds is better is due to the fact that, even tho more than one is redundant, it is *so* good in this deck, getting it out as soon as u can is important. a first turn crucible lock is much easier to pull off with 4 crucibles than 3, and extra cards can always be tossed to bazaar of baghdad. in addition to the crucible lock, crucible can fuel tons of damage/recurring removal with barbarian ring, it can be used to recycle lands that the opponent has wasteland/strip mined away (which can be devastating,) and on top of all that, if youre playing green for fastbond, crucible is a win, not just a near lock. and not playing titan frees up your goblin welders to get a soft lock with uba mask. control is very scary and everything, but id rather have uba masks to bounce around than titans. force of will can get around no land, but it cant get around no cards in hand.
so anyway, basically my point is that playing sundering titan isnt particularly stupid, but not playing it isnt stupid either, whether u decide to splash green or not. yall should relax, its just a game anyway.
happy new year!
p.s.: i do try to not be/sound short-sighted, i apologize if i came off that way.
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"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
your entire post still is shortsighted and your arguments inacurate. Karn is better than Titan IF you arent running Null rod...Running Karn w/ Null Rod is a pretty questionable choice...
Titan is better than Duplicant because Titan helps attain a lock...duplicant doesnt...duplicant simply helps you not lose at times...Titan is better overall here as well..
Crucible #4 is not needed and Binary went over why crucible #4 is not as good as Titan....you can argue it all you want but the matter of fact is that you are wrong.
Fastbond is restricted and you WILL NOT always have it...not to mention that the only way fastbond crucible is a win is if you have b-ring and threshold or if your opponent has 0 artifact accelerators...Its a neat combo, and nobody is arguing against fastbonds inclusion in stax (in fact I think most players are leaning towards fastbond being included all the time now, even vroman in his uba list...)
You are making a blanket statement that is using ALL forms of stax as a basis...I suppose the question should come down to each players exact build and meta...
I think one item that many (most) agree on is that titan > Crucible #4...
randomly adding in a null rod as a 1 of or other such card is generally going to be a bad idea...the only other option is to add in another tutor if you arent running a full complement yet but even here Titan should be better than tutoring for something that might win you the game...there are a few other cards that work as one ofs in this spot, but I cant really think of many that are better than titan...especially if you are running welders and thirst for knowledge...titan becomes a wrecking ball in welder stax decks...
But as it stands im through arguing with you...a number of your comments are decidedly outdated and shortsighted...weve been working on stax for several years now...I consistantly make top 8s at major events here on the west coast (with Stax of various types), and Binary is part of team meandeck...if you are unaware meandeck consists of Kevin Cron (ie CronStax) and Roland Chang, who is the vintage world champ, and who also won that using 5color Stax...and those are just two of them...the list really goes on...
Im not saying Titan is required, but it is decidedly good...
@Stax: Trinisphere is restricted, and you have some obsolete/bad choices, but if I were to classify it, it would be Welder MUD (ah... I remember the old days of that deck romping around). Welder MUD is obsolete in itself, but currently it is probably clossest to Uba Stax in how it plays. Bazaar>Grafted Skullcap, and your list could use new tools (and some old ones). Mono Colored stax decks as a whole have died, however (even Uba Mask has become RG, or 5c).
well, its been my experience that karn isnt usually disrupted by null rod, because the opponent almost always sacrifices any cards affected by null rod to smokestack and/or taps for tanglewire first, leaving null rod as food for welders, leaving karn ready to animate uba masks. :tongue3: im sorry if im not articulating myself very well, but i honestly dont understand what ive said that was "shortsighted." what was it specifically?
one problem that i jsut realized is that i made the mistake of referring to ubastax this whole thread, not realizing that u were talking about stax in general (and reading over your original post this is my fault obviously, sry. :))
also, u have a great magic resume, and i certainly wasnt trying to say that anything u were saying was wrong, sundering titan is a really good card with lots of synergy with the deck (any version of it.) i was just presenting my opinion, and i appreciate anything that anyone has to share, so ty.
anyway, i hope there arent any bad feelings, and ill try to better order my thoughts in the future before i get all gung ho about posting.
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"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
Im not even specifically talking about your own null rods...you do realize that opponents run them as well...and they are generally going to try and avoid letting you weld stuff like that out.
You still ignore what binary and I have said...and we arent ignoring your ideas...we took your arguments and told you how they are incorrect.
Look, certainly stax can and will function just fine without titan...but to say its not as good as basically all of the options you personally have laid out is folly...
I would definatly say this though, heh....if you are reasonably sure you arent going to be playing against decks with dual lands all day then you are probably safe not running titan. obviously decks with 5color mana bases dont care as much about titan..but this makes him an uber easy choice to side out for something meaner, heh...
I get what you are trying to say...we both probably feel the same way deep down, and maybe how you are arguing it just isnt getting through to me properly.
Im over it, and Im not going to post in this thread anymore unless something interesting happens.
well, its been my experience that karn isnt usually disrupted by null rod, because the opponent almost always sacrifices any cards affected by null rod to smokestack and/or taps for tanglewire first, leaving null rod as food for welders, leaving karn ready to animate uba masks.
Smart Null Rod players, when playing against Stax, do not throw their Moxen away immediately because they know they're handing the opponent a way to deal with Null Rod.
Players who are dumb enough to do that deserve to lose.
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well thats certainly true. but what i meant was that your karn isnt really disrupted by your own null rod. and after theyve sacrificed stuff that was shut down by null rod, u can weld out your null rod for something more useful. sry if i wasnt clearer.
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"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
Ok,
Should all Stax builds adopt the null rod plan? I mean even Steve Menendian said it, and it is true, Null Rod is one of THE best disruption cards Staxx could play.
Should 5 color stax adopt it?
Ok,
Should all Stax builds adopt the null rod plan? I mean even Steve Menendian said it, and it is true, Null Rod is one of THE best disruption cards Staxx could play.
Should 5 color stax adopt it?
This annoys me to no end...
I love steve as he is probably the best thing going for the T1 format (I know he is the reason I started getting really into it.) But sheesh..the guy gets credit for everything...myself and one or two others were talking about how good null rod was in stax months ago on TMD in the two major stax threads going around at the time, there was even a lot of resistance to the idea of null rod as a supporting lock piece at the time...heh...
That being said...
No, I dont believe null rod should be run in every 5color stax build, or even any 5color stax build for sure. You MIGHT find usefulness in Null Rod in some metas (like the NE for sure, read: waterbury) but overall its just hard to get it into the deck to replace the other options you have in 5color...
Id equate it like this...you run 5color to be able to abuse all 5 colors both MD and out of your SB...cutting colors for null rod negates the reasons for running null rod, so if you want to run null rod id speculate that there is probably a 2 or 3 color build that would suit you better. This is one of the hot reasons that UbaStax runs null rod...it doesnt need to take advantage of all 5 colors because it has a savage draw engine in it, null rod naturally fits into the deck without having to sacrafice the reasons for having your mana base designed a certain way.
because the opponent almost always sacrifices any cards affected by null rod to smokestack and/or taps for tanglewire first
I learned long ago that arguing the pros of something based upon your opponent playing poorly is a bad idea...
I for one have run null rod for months, and it wasn't steves idea, really. I've fit them into all my stax ideas since Rivers won that tourament with mono-brown, due to after testing I realized that it was very powerful. I haven't played it at tournys due to a limited card pool, however.
For reference, I live in the NE meta (well, when I go to real touraments), and I have 2+ rods in all of my builds of stax. It is incredibly useful. In my 5-color builds I usually run 2, and sometimes 1. They are good, but with all your search/need for other cards you can't afford to run more. However, having them does a lot for me. Droping them turn one with some land hate is so great, not to mention its combo hatyness, and having 1 doesn't really hurt consistancy while giving you the option to tutor it out. The less colors I run, the more I use, although I top out at 3 for any given deck, do to the uselessness of it in redundencys.
5-color builds can support it, and it is great, in the right meta. I am sure Lunar is talking about his meta, where drains aren't running around all over the place, so it is probably less useful. In a stax/fish/etc. meta, I would not run it, but in a combo/control meta I would look into a few copies.
5-color builds can support it, and it is great, in the right meta. I am sure Lunar is talking about his meta, where drains aren't running around all over the place, so it is probably less useful.
Actually our meta at the real tournaments is very drain heavy, although it is more diverse overall than the NE...But generally there are 4-6 drain decks in any given top 8 here...
Many 5color Stax decks run a set up of
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinishphere
simply because that is what roland chang did in his list...he felt this made it more rounded and like a "4 of" kind of card with trinisphere being a "better" 4th sphere of resistance...
I would guess (just a guess) that you are doing the same...this fits the null rod in pretty good I suppose...Personally I run the 4th sphere of resistance instead to increase my odds of hitting one first turn, and since they are cumuliative its good having more...
IMO sphere harms the drain decks more than null rod can...and hoses combo over just as bad (and is actually better against dragon than null rod is anyways...) Now this does make a difference I suppose for those in the NE where Control Slaver is so big...Gifts and Oath are much bigger here so Null Rod doesnt hose over things like Pentavus and Mindslaver...here id rather slow a Tinker for Collosus early and utilize either Tangle Wire to battle Oath or Chalice to help stop drains and moxen that become tinker food...Null rod does little to stop tinker in the grand scheme of things, heh...
in a combo/control meta I would look into a few copies
You are already running on average in 5color stax a whole grip of chalice of the void and spheres, these along with waste/strip already give you pretty amazing game against combo and control...its what the deck is made to do. When you get into more aggro stuff then you want your Tangle Wires and stuff. But 5color has the mana base for a reason, you get to be running things like balance and chains of mephistopheles and ITEOC and choke and all sorts of goodness, why spend it on colorless spells. My argument here is not that Null Rod shouldnt be in stax (I think it definatly should in many places) but I think that if you really want to take advantage of Null Rod then it shouldnt be in a 5 color based Stax deck...
I suppose the whole question is relevant to your exact list and meta, but I find it hard to believe that null rod as a 1 or even 2 of is optimal in a 5 color list.
Perhaps you can slap your build up here Glix so we can take a look and identify whether Null Rod is the best option where you have it in your build...
Time walk is terrible in stax......unless you already have stack/crucible going its dead a lot, you dont really want to top deck time walk if you just put your smokestack counter up to 2 or 3...heh, its good at times...but overall weak in the deck.
So, going Wasteland, Mox Sapphire, Mox, Time Walk... is not good? Playing a Smokestack AND having it online... Playing fatties, then swinging for the win... since when is that bad? Oh and it's not a dead card. It replaces itself. If you have that many counters on your Smokestack, you are winning, otherwise you would have never put that many counters on Smokestack. I'm not sure why you are top decking at that point, you should have sealed the game. This situation sounds like a terrible Stax player is piloting the deck.
Quote from magicplaya10 »
My meta is combo and control (Damn NW meta heh).
Do you think I should Maindeck Chalice of the Void over Tangle Wire?
(We are starting to see a LOT of combo because of IT and GrimLong. They are showing up big here.)
Your best bet is play Ubastax with Jester's Cap. That is The Jester. It has good game against control and Jester's Cap helps against combo.
Tangle Wire is also amazing vs control, so The Jester has it all. You will still have a tough match against I.T. GrimLong isn't as tough, because they don't pack as much bounce as I.T does.
Moving along...
Stax has really been falling out of favor. Ever since Evenpence piloted The Jester to two T8 spots at Richmond people have been playing hate against it. ChangStax is still good, because people have forgotten about it.
The only problem I see is that combo is running rampant... namely I.T. And I.T can beat Ubastax, but The Jester has better game against it.
ChangStax does better against I.T, but you are banking on your 5 Spheres to get you through that match.
Time Walk is definitely the best blue card you can run in Ubastax. The ability to strip two lands, ramp an unramped smokestack, do insane welder tricks, etc, is just enormous.
Time Walk is 100x better than Ancestral and like 2x better than Tinker.
People have been playing tons of hate since way before I double T8ed, though. It's pretty miraculous that I did in a field of people playing maindeck mass bounce at different ccs. Go Chalice, Go Go.
Is there any room in any Stax variant for Magewright's Stone ? Also, has anyone had any luck running an Erayo variant? or is it pointless when you have Chalice and/or Trinisphere down already ?
Feel free to say both of those are just bad ideas. I'm outside of my domain here...
Kinda off topic, but IT is Intuition Tenrils. You can read about it here.
Magewright's stone will never be played because it doesnt lock the game, it doesnt do anything by itself, and welder is broken enough by itself. Stax lists are tight, useless cards can't be inserted.
Time Walk used to be bad in stax, but not anymore.
Well first of all, you've necroed a thread that is over half a year dead.
Secondly, I still would run walk, unless I was playing non-blue stax (see vroman). Walk is a powerful componant that allows you to untap, draw, and play more locks while an opponant is tapped out. If you have stax/wire in play, and this wouldn't be a good player, you're winning anyway, and if you don't than walking will give you serrious advantage.
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Because Null Rod doesn't do anything to Titan. If I have a Sundering Titan in play, and my opponent has a Null Rod, then I'm the beatdown, and he's wasted a card on something that isn't going to stop me from winning the game.
Playing against a deck with Null Rod in play, Karn's nothing more than a 4/4 that can be infinitely blocked by a 0/1 creature.
There are three reasons for playing Titan over Crucible #4:
1)Yes, you want to draw one quickly, but after you've drawn one you don't want to see a second unless the first one got destroyed somehow, and
2)Titan destroys lands much faster than Crucible/Strip, and
3)Titan actually kills your opponent.
"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
Maybe you are just some amazing player with tech that we arent capable of understanding, but more like I believe you are simply a short sighted player who doesnt know how to listen. Either way it is basically worthless for you to post anything here because you dont listen to our advice anyways.
The only thing I'm agreeing with here is that Titan is better than Crucible number 4. If you choose not to argue the matter further, then that's your choice...
but heres where im coming from, just in case. :tongue3:
its true that null rod doesnt do anything against titan, but unlike titan null rod serves other purposes. sundering titan is a really great creature, but duplicant is almost always better than titan creaturewise, and crucible of worlds is almost always better than titan control-wise. duplicant, karn, crucible, and null rod also have the advantage of being castable, whereas titan will almost always have to be welded in. titan essentially overcomes this disadvantage by also taking out lands when it leaves play, so it could certainly be argued that its "better" in that sense, but i hardly think that its strictly better than any of the above mentioned cards. if it werent for the fact that karn can go mox monkey if he needs to i would say that the titan is prolly better than him, but i think that they are equally good in the role of beatdown. also, while its true that sundering titan isnt shut down by null rod as badly as karn (as mentioned before :tongue3:,) 4 goblin welders and 4 smokestacks should be able to take care of an opposing null rod pretty quickly. in any case, its my experience that barbarian ring or a duplicant-ed akroma/darksteel colossus/whatever usually kills the opponent a lot more than one of your own creatures anyway, so it just seems redundant to use sundering titan. the reason that *i* think 4x crucible of worlds is better is due to the fact that, even tho more than one is redundant, it is *so* good in this deck, getting it out as soon as u can is important. a first turn crucible lock is much easier to pull off with 4 crucibles than 3, and extra cards can always be tossed to bazaar of baghdad. in addition to the crucible lock, crucible can fuel tons of damage/recurring removal with barbarian ring, it can be used to recycle lands that the opponent has wasteland/strip mined away (which can be devastating,) and on top of all that, if youre playing green for fastbond, crucible is a win, not just a near lock. and not playing titan frees up your goblin welders to get a soft lock with uba mask. control is very scary and everything, but id rather have uba masks to bounce around than titans. force of will can get around no land, but it cant get around no cards in hand.
so anyway, basically my point is that playing sundering titan isnt particularly stupid, but not playing it isnt stupid either, whether u decide to splash green or not. yall should relax, its just a game anyway.
happy new year!
p.s.: i do try to not be/sound short-sighted, i apologize if i came off that way.
"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
Heh, that's actually a pretty hilarious quote, sad I missed it.
Just a question, this is my old STAX list, I haven't updated it in quite a while, what would you classify it as? (other than possibly bad)
2 City of Traitors
1 Tolarian Academy
7 Mountain
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
2 Powder Keg
3 Grafted Skullcap
1 Memory Jar
2 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Rack and Ruin
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Null Brooch
your entire post still is shortsighted and your arguments inacurate. Karn is better than Titan IF you arent running Null rod...Running Karn w/ Null Rod is a pretty questionable choice...
Titan is better than Duplicant because Titan helps attain a lock...duplicant doesnt...duplicant simply helps you not lose at times...Titan is better overall here as well..
Crucible #4 is not needed and Binary went over why crucible #4 is not as good as Titan....you can argue it all you want but the matter of fact is that you are wrong.
Fastbond is restricted and you WILL NOT always have it...not to mention that the only way fastbond crucible is a win is if you have b-ring and threshold or if your opponent has 0 artifact accelerators...Its a neat combo, and nobody is arguing against fastbonds inclusion in stax (in fact I think most players are leaning towards fastbond being included all the time now, even vroman in his uba list...)
You are making a blanket statement that is using ALL forms of stax as a basis...I suppose the question should come down to each players exact build and meta...
I think one item that many (most) agree on is that titan > Crucible #4...
randomly adding in a null rod as a 1 of or other such card is generally going to be a bad idea...the only other option is to add in another tutor if you arent running a full complement yet but even here Titan should be better than tutoring for something that might win you the game...there are a few other cards that work as one ofs in this spot, but I cant really think of many that are better than titan...especially if you are running welders and thirst for knowledge...titan becomes a wrecking ball in welder stax decks...
But as it stands im through arguing with you...a number of your comments are decidedly outdated and shortsighted...weve been working on stax for several years now...I consistantly make top 8s at major events here on the west coast (with Stax of various types), and Binary is part of team meandeck...if you are unaware meandeck consists of Kevin Cron (ie CronStax) and Roland Chang, who is the vintage world champ, and who also won that using 5color Stax...and those are just two of them...the list really goes on...
Im not saying Titan is required, but it is decidedly good...
one problem that i jsut realized is that i made the mistake of referring to ubastax this whole thread, not realizing that u were talking about stax in general (and reading over your original post this is my fault obviously, sry. :))
also, u have a great magic resume, and i certainly wasnt trying to say that anything u were saying was wrong, sundering titan is a really good card with lots of synergy with the deck (any version of it.) i was just presenting my opinion, and i appreciate anything that anyone has to share, so ty.
anyway, i hope there arent any bad feelings, and ill try to better order my thoughts in the future before i get all gung ho about posting.
"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
You still ignore what binary and I have said...and we arent ignoring your ideas...we took your arguments and told you how they are incorrect.
Look, certainly stax can and will function just fine without titan...but to say its not as good as basically all of the options you personally have laid out is folly...
I would definatly say this though, heh....if you are reasonably sure you arent going to be playing against decks with dual lands all day then you are probably safe not running titan. obviously decks with 5color mana bases dont care as much about titan..but this makes him an uber easy choice to side out for something meaner, heh...
I get what you are trying to say...we both probably feel the same way deep down, and maybe how you are arguing it just isnt getting through to me properly.
Im over it, and Im not going to post in this thread anymore unless something interesting happens.
Smart Null Rod players, when playing against Stax, do not throw their Moxen away immediately because they know they're handing the opponent a way to deal with Null Rod.
Players who are dumb enough to do that deserve to lose.
"How inbred do you have to be to think that making shepards pie with a graham cracker crust is a good idea?"
"I said I thought it was weird, but you wanted meat in a freaking pie, so eat up."
Should all Stax builds adopt the null rod plan? I mean even Steve Menendian said it, and it is true, Null Rod is one of THE best disruption cards Staxx could play.
Should 5 color stax adopt it?
This annoys me to no end...
I love steve as he is probably the best thing going for the T1 format (I know he is the reason I started getting really into it.) But sheesh..the guy gets credit for everything...myself and one or two others were talking about how good null rod was in stax months ago on TMD in the two major stax threads going around at the time, there was even a lot of resistance to the idea of null rod as a supporting lock piece at the time...heh...
That being said...
No, I dont believe null rod should be run in every 5color stax build, or even any 5color stax build for sure. You MIGHT find usefulness in Null Rod in some metas (like the NE for sure, read: waterbury) but overall its just hard to get it into the deck to replace the other options you have in 5color...
Id equate it like this...you run 5color to be able to abuse all 5 colors both MD and out of your SB...cutting colors for null rod negates the reasons for running null rod, so if you want to run null rod id speculate that there is probably a 2 or 3 color build that would suit you better. This is one of the hot reasons that UbaStax runs null rod...it doesnt need to take advantage of all 5 colors because it has a savage draw engine in it, null rod naturally fits into the deck without having to sacrafice the reasons for having your mana base designed a certain way.
I learned long ago that arguing the pros of something based upon your opponent playing poorly is a bad idea...
For reference, I live in the NE meta (well, when I go to real touraments), and I have 2+ rods in all of my builds of stax. It is incredibly useful. In my 5-color builds I usually run 2, and sometimes 1. They are good, but with all your search/need for other cards you can't afford to run more. However, having them does a lot for me. Droping them turn one with some land hate is so great, not to mention its combo hatyness, and having 1 doesn't really hurt consistancy while giving you the option to tutor it out. The less colors I run, the more I use, although I top out at 3 for any given deck, do to the uselessness of it in redundencys.
5-color builds can support it, and it is great, in the right meta. I am sure Lunar is talking about his meta, where drains aren't running around all over the place, so it is probably less useful. In a stax/fish/etc. meta, I would not run it, but in a combo/control meta I would look into a few copies.
Actually our meta at the real tournaments is very drain heavy, although it is more diverse overall than the NE...But generally there are 4-6 drain decks in any given top 8 here...
Many 5color Stax decks run a set up of
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinishphere
simply because that is what roland chang did in his list...he felt this made it more rounded and like a "4 of" kind of card with trinisphere being a "better" 4th sphere of resistance...
I would guess (just a guess) that you are doing the same...this fits the null rod in pretty good I suppose...Personally I run the 4th sphere of resistance instead to increase my odds of hitting one first turn, and since they are cumuliative its good having more...
IMO sphere harms the drain decks more than null rod can...and hoses combo over just as bad (and is actually better against dragon than null rod is anyways...) Now this does make a difference I suppose for those in the NE where Control Slaver is so big...Gifts and Oath are much bigger here so Null Rod doesnt hose over things like Pentavus and Mindslaver...here id rather slow a Tinker for Collosus early and utilize either Tangle Wire to battle Oath or Chalice to help stop drains and moxen that become tinker food...Null rod does little to stop tinker in the grand scheme of things, heh...
You are already running on average in 5color stax a whole grip of chalice of the void and spheres, these along with waste/strip already give you pretty amazing game against combo and control...its what the deck is made to do. When you get into more aggro stuff then you want your Tangle Wires and stuff. But 5color has the mana base for a reason, you get to be running things like balance and chains of mephistopheles and ITEOC and choke and all sorts of goodness, why spend it on colorless spells. My argument here is not that Null Rod shouldnt be in stax (I think it definatly should in many places) but I think that if you really want to take advantage of Null Rod then it shouldnt be in a 5 color based Stax deck...
I suppose the whole question is relevant to your exact list and meta, but I find it hard to believe that null rod as a 1 or even 2 of is optimal in a 5 color list.
Perhaps you can slap your build up here Glix so we can take a look and identify whether Null Rod is the best option where you have it in your build...
Do you think I should Maindeck Chalice of the Void over Tangle Wire?
(We are starting to see a LOT of combo because of IT and GrimLong. They are showing up big here.)
So, going Wasteland, Mox Sapphire, Mox, Time Walk... is not good? Playing a Smokestack AND having it online... Playing fatties, then swinging for the win... since when is that bad? Oh and it's not a dead card. It replaces itself. If you have that many counters on your Smokestack, you are winning, otherwise you would have never put that many counters on Smokestack. I'm not sure why you are top decking at that point, you should have sealed the game. This situation sounds like a terrible Stax player is piloting the deck.
Your best bet is play Ubastax with Jester's Cap. That is The Jester. It has good game against control and Jester's Cap helps against combo.
Tangle Wire is also amazing vs control, so The Jester has it all. You will still have a tough match against I.T. GrimLong isn't as tough, because they don't pack as much bounce as I.T does.
Moving along...
Stax has really been falling out of favor. Ever since Evenpence piloted The Jester to two T8 spots at Richmond people have been playing hate against it. ChangStax is still good, because people have forgotten about it.
The only problem I see is that combo is running rampant... namely I.T. And I.T can beat Ubastax, but The Jester has better game against it.
ChangStax does better against I.T, but you are banking on your 5 Spheres to get you through that match.
Time Walk is 100x better than Ancestral and like 2x better than Tinker.
People have been playing tons of hate since way before I double T8ed, though. It's pretty miraculous that I did in a field of people playing maindeck mass bounce at different ccs. Go Chalice, Go Go.
Feel free to say both of those are just bad ideas. I'm outside of my domain here...
Not conditionally broken, so it won't make the cut.
Magewright's stone will never be played because it doesnt lock the game, it doesnt do anything by itself, and welder is broken enough by itself. Stax lists are tight, useless cards can't be inserted.
Time Walk used to be bad in stax, but not anymore.
Why is that? I remember a while ago, every build ran it, but recently it's been taken out in favor of more prison pieces.
Secondly, I still would run walk, unless I was playing non-blue stax (see vroman). Walk is a powerful componant that allows you to untap, draw, and play more locks while an opponant is tapped out. If you have stax/wire in play, and this wouldn't be a good player, you're winning anyway, and if you don't than walking will give you serrious advantage.