So everybody and their mom has been talking about suppresion field in stax for the last two months or so....on TMD a lot of us are coming to the conclusion that is just isnt any better than current stax builds and in some cases is worse since you have to lose a number of the key pieces like welder and wasteland...Supression Field still shines in some matchups though, but is it worth it overall..only time will tell...
The OTHER idea that I had (its been mentioned before, but I am going to actually try it and get the idea out there more...since nobody has posted ANYTHING anywhere else yet...heh) was running Stax just like it has been getting run, but with Vault/Fussilade in there as both a comb win for stax and as independant decent options for the deck...
Vault is pretty good in Stax. As you ramp up the Somky count and then drop tangle wires and ish, you can cast the Time Vault. Agaisnt control, it is a must counter. When you drop it, start skipping turns and they lose their board. The only downside to this is they get extra turns to draw, answers etc. But if you do have smoky in play, then they wont draw answers as they lose their board. So while you control the board, they can't drop anything and you win. The Flamside part of the deck is pretty good. But I would run 1 and tutors. But remember how many permanents staxx has in play a lot of times? If the game is really long and drawn out, you can and should just be able to cast Flame and ping for 20+. That is if you have enough permanents. Or you can just drop Flame ping for a lot and let Karn and friends do the rest.
dont forget that tanglewire is tapping them down after they sack to smokestack and before they draw...so even if they hit answers they usually wont be able to play them ever....heh...I like 2 fussilades just cause fussilade isnt too bad on its own for this deck and at the worst can kill opposing welders and shamans...perhaps
Before fusidile came out there was a lodestone myr, time vault combo deck. I was wonder why you chose to run the fusidile over lodestone myr. Sure you have to cast it and wait a turn but with workshops it seems like it would be better then fusidile. Otherwise the list seems soild.
yes, but fussilade is better on its own than lodestone myr IMO...since it kills weenies and can be a finisher late game on its own...
tradeoffs
fussilade costs 3R which cant be done with shop and you must have R availible...
Myr is kinda weak on its own but can be cast with shop, but then you have to wait a turn to attack in the combo...but with stax that isnt ALWAYS a problem...
fussilade can be good utility on its own it can take out all manner of creatures and the later the game the bigger the creature it can handle...it can also deal damage to the head to finish an opponent.
Id say fussilade takes the trophy by a score of like 3 to 2 overall...I think its the fact that it actually does something to assit stax in the permanent war that does it for me.
Before fusidile came out there was a lodestone myr, time vault combo deck. I was wonder why you chose to run the fusidile over lodestone myr. Sure you have to cast it and wait a turn but with workshops it seems like it would be better then fusidile. Otherwise the list seems soild.
Lodestone Myr resulted in you losing the game when they killed it. Fussilade wins instantly.
Since Time Vault is such a dead draw I think you have to run 4 Thirst no matter what. I would cut the Gorilla Shaman for it since I find that the correct Shaman count is usually 2 or 0.
Time Vault is NEVER dead in the deck. It is Welder Fodder, Thirst Pitcher, Time Vault, Turn Taker, to set up the lock, and to lock out an opponent. With the card doing so much, how can you say it is dead? I have even used it(testing on MWS) as counter bait. And if it resolves agaisnt Control, it most likely will be GG unless they can deal with it.
The only real issue I have with it is its necessaty. I haven't tested it yet, however, when playing stax, once you are in a possition to take advantage of vault or combo off, you should have the board locked down, or the card could have been a lock componant and lock the board down instead. At that point, winning is a formality usually, rather than a priority. Time vault may be game over for control, but so is ITEOC, another crucible/strip, etc.
However, I must say that fussilade is an awsome card on its own. Even if the combo is disrupted, its usually a plague wind against an opponant, or a game finisher if you have an established board. Vault may be slightly less usesful, but it is a fairly good card when combined with other stax componants.
I'll test it once I get internet to my new comp (the old one's user interface died, and this one has too little memory and is too old to download anything). Its an interesting idea, I'm just not sure on it practicality.
Im not too sure if it IS better yet...but it seemed like something definatly worth testing out...Vault can clear the opponents board with a stack in play and can make the game easier at times...remember that once you clear their board and their turns dont matter anymore you then will get some turns to do some major damage...Basically it can combo on its own with the rest of the deck....Same with fussilade...fussilade gives us an "oops I win" combo win in the deck, but also can act on its own to deal damage or be a board sweeper (at the least its an overpriced welder killer...heh)
Testing of course needs to be done...im also wanting to know if anybody trys it at SCG chicago this coming weekend.
Oh and I like at least one shaman as either a random early game winner, or a tutorable answer to artifacts...I dont think that we need 4 thirsts like the waterbury winners deck because this list is still running black which lets us run two tutors and yawgwill in the deck instead....if anything id drop balance for a second shaman before I cut anything else...yes...shaman IS that good.
The OTHER idea that I had (its been mentioned before, but I am going to actually try it and get the idea out there more...since nobody has posted ANYTHING anywhere else yet...heh) was running Stax just like it has been getting run, but with Vault/Fussilade in there as both a comb win for stax and as independant decent options for the deck...
4 Smokestack
4 Tanglewire
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Goblin Welder
2 Time Vault
2 Flame Fussilade
1 Gorilla Shaman
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Balance
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Barbarian Ring
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Viashino Heretic
3 Phyrexian Furnace
2 Darkblast
2 Echoing Truth
1 Swords to Plowshares
Havnt had much time to test it all out...and the SB is pretty rough right now, but seems solid overall...
What do you all think of this kind of build? Do you think Vault has a place in any of today's Stax builds?
Nice List too Lunar. I will test.
-1 Fussilade
+1 Imperial Seal
tradeoffs
fussilade costs 3R which cant be done with shop and you must have R availible...
Myr is kinda weak on its own but can be cast with shop, but then you have to wait a turn to attack in the combo...but with stax that isnt ALWAYS a problem...
fussilade can be good utility on its own it can take out all manner of creatures and the later the game the bigger the creature it can handle...it can also deal damage to the head to finish an opponent.
Id say fussilade takes the trophy by a score of like 3 to 2 overall...I think its the fact that it actually does something to assit stax in the permanent war that does it for me.
Lodestone Myr resulted in you losing the game when they killed it. Fussilade wins instantly.
Since Time Vault is such a dead draw I think you have to run 4 Thirst no matter what. I would cut the Gorilla Shaman for it since I find that the correct Shaman count is usually 2 or 0.
Wow is this guy a freakin moron... what a sec..
Sorry guys, must have been on the stupid pills.
Anyway I still think its worth playing a 4th TFK in place of Mox Monkey.
However, I must say that fussilade is an awsome card on its own. Even if the combo is disrupted, its usually a plague wind against an opponant, or a game finisher if you have an established board. Vault may be slightly less usesful, but it is a fairly good card when combined with other stax componants.
I'll test it once I get internet to my new comp (the old one's user interface died, and this one has too little memory and is too old to download anything). Its an interesting idea, I'm just not sure on it practicality.
"how is this better than other choices?"
Im not too sure if it IS better yet...but it seemed like something definatly worth testing out...Vault can clear the opponents board with a stack in play and can make the game easier at times...remember that once you clear their board and their turns dont matter anymore you then will get some turns to do some major damage...Basically it can combo on its own with the rest of the deck....Same with fussilade...fussilade gives us an "oops I win" combo win in the deck, but also can act on its own to deal damage or be a board sweeper (at the least its an overpriced welder killer...heh)
Testing of course needs to be done...im also wanting to know if anybody trys it at SCG chicago this coming weekend.
Oh and I like at least one shaman as either a random early game winner, or a tutorable answer to artifacts...I dont think that we need 4 thirsts like the waterbury winners deck because this list is still running black which lets us run two tutors and yawgwill in the deck instead....if anything id drop balance for a second shaman before I cut anything else...yes...shaman IS that good.