Welcome to the Battle for Earth! Extradimensional Aliens have decided to use our planet for their amusement, shifting creatures and robots from across the multiverse to ours. Your job is to determine the winners.
Combatants are from specific universes, and while parallel versions of themselves may exist, the specific version referenced in included in parentheses after the combatant's name. All machines requiring pilots will generally have their pilots named in their summaries, and those pilots are assumed to be in the machines. However, the Extraliens have implanted thoughts of aggressiveness in all of the combatants, and they must fight if the Extraliens pit them against one another. They have also been given knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of those they fight against.
Write-ups are appreciated, as elements from the best write ups will be included in the story conclusion. Voting can be done like TOC, you may select a poll option and/or post your choice. All in-text votes MUST BE IN BOLD.
Summary of battles so far:
Kong-Class
Alduin defeats King Kong.
Gundam-Class
Wing Zero defeated the Hydra.
Clover-Class
Eva Unit 01 defeated the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man (and is moved up to Godzilla-Class due to incorrect size listing).
Godzilla-Class
Gipsy Danger defeats the Ultrazord.
Reaper-Class
Serpentera defeats Deathwing.
Round 2 fights will end Sunday, September 15th at midnight.
Background on the Combatants:
Tai’s MetalGreymon (Digimon Adventure and 02)
Height: ~9 meters (Estimate based on Tai standing next to him) http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/MetalGreymon
Summary: Accompanying his friend Tai while stuck in the Digital World, against great threats Greymon can Digivolve into MetalGreymon. Torn from the Digital World and inserted into the real world, MetalGreymon searches for his friend Tai and a way back home.
Obelisk the Tormentor (Yu-Gi-Oh)
Height: ? http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Appearances:Obelisk_the_Tormentor
Summary: Played by Seto Kaiba during a tournament, this powerful Egyption God card took on a life of it’s own and quickly disappeared from play. Free of it’s restraints and the threat of it’s enemies from the card game, Obelisk is unleashed onto our world.
Story:MetalGreymon materializes in what appears to be a swamp. Jumping at a sudden crocodile attack, he feels silly as he realizes it's fake. A boat of passengers motors past him as everyone inside points at him and shouts. However, the screams from farther away reach him first as he looks up to see a magical-looking castle with an evil looking beings descending down the side.
MetalGreymon rushes outside, careful to avoid stomping any people, he realizes he is in a theme park of some kind. His curiosity is put on hold but a sudden desire to stop the creature he saw earlier.
Meanwhile, Obelisk grins with pleasure at the number of new victims he has found.
Battlefield: Celebration, Florida Situation: The Magic Kingdom Theme park is packed full of tourists.
Obelisk, is likely winning here, his ability might as well be wrath of god. He is shown destroying other powerful monsters in the show that IMO are greater than the digimon, I am not sure why these guys are in the same class.
Obelisk is an Egyptian God with the power to decimate cities and huge creatures with a single blow. I'm honestly kind of surprised he's not in Reaper class. He's also gigantic. He's somewhat bigger than Slifer, and Slifer can wrap his body several times around a zeppelin.
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Obelisk, is likely winning here, his ability might as well be wrath of god. He is shown destroying other powerful monsters in the show that IMO are greater than the digimon, I am not sure why these guys are in the same class.
Hmmm... I don't know. Forgive me for saying this, but MetalGreymon would probably destroy a BlueEyesWhiteDragon rather easily. He's essentially a BEWD with cybernetic armor, flight, and missle launchers. Obelisk's card statistics aren't that much higher than a BEWD either, so make of that what you will.
A God, you say? So was Deathwing (Aspect of Death and all that). In fact, so was the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man (Physical manifestation of Gozer). Didn't save them from losing the previous round, did it?
Can we please forego the "This character is God" arguments? We've already established that even Gods can fall. Besides, if we're going to play that card (hah, pun intended) MGM destroyed Chaos Etemon, a creature who, with similar random destruction and reality shattering powers, would have wiped out the entire Digital world.
Obelisk is an Egyptian God with the power to decimate cities and huge creatures with a single blow. I'm honestly kind of surprised he's not in Reaper class. He's also gigantic. He's somewhat bigger than Slifer, and Slifer can wrap his body several times around a zeppelin.
Are we using the "Egyptian God" version of Obelisk, or the version that Kaiba summons and uses to fight for duels? The former is probably in another weight class because of what Iso said. The latter can beat up many opponents without fatigue, and is only a few feet taller than Kaiba, a size comparable to MGM and Tai, and is probably a fairer fight, because it can also destroy monsters that MGM could take on with relative equality.
This is the Obelisk I had in mind, capable of laying waste to some of the most powerful creatures in the game:
Until this question is answered, I'm witholding my vote. I've watched both Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon Adventure, so I'd like a power level clarification before I pass my opinion along.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Hmmm... I don't know. Forgive me for saying this, but MetalGreymon would probably destroy a BlueEyesWhiteDragon rather easily. He's essentially a BEWD with cybernetic armor, flight, and missle launchers. Obelisk's card statistics aren't that much higher than a BEWD either, so make of that what you will.
A God, you say? So was Deathwing (Aspect of Death and all that). In fact, so was the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man (Physical manifestation of Gozer). Didn't save them from losing the previous round, did it?
Can we please forego the "This character is God" arguments? We've already established that even Gods can fall. Besides, if we're going to play that card (hah, pun intended) MGM destroyed Chaos Etemon, a creature who, with similar random destruction and reality shattering powers, would have wiped out the entire Digital world.
Are we using the "Egyptian God" version of Obelisk, or the version that Kaiba summons and uses to fight for duels? The former is probably in another weight class because of what Iso said. The latter can beat up many opponents without fatigue, and is only a few feet taller than Kaiba, a size comparable to MGM and Tai, and is probably a fairer fight, because it can also destroy monsters that MGM could take on with relative equality.
This is the Obelisk I had in mind, capable of laying waste to some of the most powerful creatures in the game:
Until this question is answered, I'm witholding my vote. I've watched both Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon Adventure, so I'd like a power level clarification before I pass my opinion along.
That's simply a hologram image of Obelisk... Obviously his size is contained within the holographic generator's capabilities... So his size changes rather than being constant, unlike the Egyptian God of the Obelisk, whose size and powers are constant... Besides, Obelisk's ability to gain Infinite Power makes him much to powerful for this contest, so Obviously I voted for Obelisk because he is so powerful...
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Are we using the "Egyptian God" version of Obelisk, or the version that Kaiba summons and uses to fight for duels? The former is probably in another weight class because of what Iso said. The latter can beat up many opponents without fatigue, and is only a few feet taller than Kaiba, a size comparable to MGM and Tai, and is probably a fairer fight, because it can also destroy monsters that MGM could take on with relative equality.
This is Kaiba's summon for duels Obelisk. He does not have infinite or God-like power, otherwise he'd be too broken for this weight class.
Are you joking, Poring? Kaiba is the size of Obelisk's fist, if that. And the only reason he's not bigger is so that the room can contain the holographic image!
Regardless, Obelisk requires 3 monsters as tribute, can destroy any opponents' monster through his effect, and...well, see for yourself.
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2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's simply a hologram image of Obelisk... Obviously his size is contained within the holographic generator's capabilities... So his size changes rather than being constant, unlike the Egyptian God of the Obelisk, whose size and powers are constant... Besides, Obelisk's ability to gain Infinite Power makes him much to powerful for this contest, so Obviously I voted for Obelisk because he is so powerful...
Plaguefather, you are correct, but I am, as you put it, "obviously", aware of the actual size of the Egyptian God Obelisk, and that the hologram is a limiter to his actual size. However, because this is the "Gundam-Class", I am also obviously assuming that no contestant is bigger than they should be, which is why I cited the video. After all, Obelisk unleashed is clearly too big and too powerful for this weight class, and logic dictates that we shouldn't assume that a character has abilities which would render every other opponent in the weight class trivial, otherwise there would be no point in having a tournament at all.
If you want to play that "size matters" card, I explained in a rather detailed post back in the nominations thread that a Digimon's size also fluctuates (because Digimon, being Digital Monsters, are made up of Data, which can expand or compress relative to the situation, just like with Kaiba's Duel Disk technology) depending on their opponents. If Obelisk's size is variable, MetalGreymon's should adjust accordingly, and this would be justified in Digimon canon and lore. So now the two are equal in size. Next point?
Are you joking, Poring? Kaiba is the size of Obelisk's fist, if that. And the only reason he's not bigger is so that the room can contain the holographic image!
As I mentioned in my rebuttal to Plaguefather, I am perfectly aware of how large the Egyptian God Obelisk is, Iso. In fact, you are as well, and I quoted you to show how correct you are in pointing out how that version of Obelisk is both too large and too powerful for this weight class, which is why I went to the trouble to select a video of the version of Obelisk which I thought (correctly, I might add, as Jay13x vindicated me in the above quote) I voted to have nominated. It makes no sense for the "omnipotent" version of Obelisk to be in a weight class where he is leagues beyond everyone else in size and power, so I picked that video, not out of ignorance, but in the interest of fairness.
Obelisk is damn powerful, ridiculous god card anime version or not.
Thank you for linking the card. I was looking for that.
Let's start by translating it to Magic terms (for those not knowledgable in Yu-Gi-Oh, or are too lazy to click the link): Obelisk is uncounterable (or has splitsecond) and has shroud (or has hexproof), and vigilance (because in Yu-Gi-Oh, creatures need not tap to attack). It has 4000 power and tougness, which makes it around 33% more powerful than BlueEyesWhiteDragon in terms of power, and 60% more powerful in terms of tougness, despite BEWD being regarded in the Anime as the most powerful creature in the game for Season 1 (or at least the first story arc).
I still stand by the idea that MetalGreymon can utterly destroy a BEWD with the same ease that Obelisk can, and therefore the Duel Disk Obelisk is a fair match for MetalGreymon, and well suited for this weight class.
Now read the fine print for his "Wrath of God" ability: "You can tribute 2 monsters [to] destroy all monsters your opponents control"
Now, I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in years, but if I remember correctly, this ability can only be activated if, in Magic terms, one is able to "Sacrifice two creatures: Destroy all creatures your opponents control".
This is a 1-on-1 match, and therefore, without other monsters to tribute, Obelisk clearly doesn't have access to his Wrath ability. Next point?
even still, Obelisk can wrath the opponent's board... Metalgreymon can't do that...lol.
As I wrote in my rebuttal to Iso, Obelisk can only do this if certain conditions are met, which cannot be fulfilled in a 1-on-1 match. However, I remember that in the Anime, they usually forego the whole "tribute necessary" clause for plot purposes, so I'll assume that Obelisk in the Anime has "When Obelisk the Tormentor comes into play, destroy all creatures your opponents control"... which still makes him too powerful for the tournament, since Obelisk merely materializing on Earth would utterly destroy his opponent regardless of weight class. Mechanically (within the confines of his own game), and for the sake of fairness, this makes absolutely no sense, so I would assume that this ability is something he cannot have access to for the match.
Oh, and no, MetalGreymon can't wrath an opponent's board, but here's what he can do: he can fly at extreme speed despite his size (which Duel Disk Obelisk cannot do), he can launch missles from his chest (which Obelisk regardless of form cannot do), and he can also rip apart creatures with his claws (which Duel Disk Obelisk can do, as in how he destroyed a BEWD without much effort in the video I linked).
However, unlike Obelisk, MetalGreymon can do this without needing to have access to magical powers that ruin the spirit of the tournament, of which I was under the impression that this would be a good old-fashioned mecha vs. kaiju showdown involving physical brawls, fire breath, various lasers and missles, and some serious city-leveling smackdowns, and not "Contestant X obliterates his opponent with a thought. Next match."
I stand by the opinion that the Obelisk fighting in this weight class should be the one who takes on monsters with his fists (who is already pretty powerful), and not the one who can wipe out Reaper Class monsters on a technicality.
TLDR version of my post: I suggest everyone reevaluate their votes, or at least the version of Obelisk they are voting for. It's probably too late to save this match due to the commanding 7-1 lead in favor of Obelisk, but in the future, Obelisk shouldn't be considered too powerful to beat.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I think you're grossly underestimating Obelisk and overestimating MetalGreymon. You forget, Poring, that I've seen Digimon, too.
In the second season of Digimon, Raidramon's storm is able to take out the Dark Spiral controlling MetalGreymon. This suggests to me that MetalGreymon isn't quite as fast as you seem to think. Additionally, I feel like MetalGreymon and a BEWD would one-for-one - you've seen White Lightning in action. To be fair, I think WarGreymon and Obelisk would be more evenly matched with WarGreymon being slightly more agile thus taking the advantage. Digivolutions always seem to leave a huge gap in power from the previous level. However, Obelisk could eat MetalGreymon for breakfast. Sure, Giga Blaster is a pair of bigass missiles...and? Obelisk has his Fist of Fate, which could easily decimate the missiles as they're coming at him. You have to bear in mind that Obelisk's strength is massive, and he's not just throwing a punch - he's using his energy as a monster in that hand of his.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think you're grossly underestimating Obelisk and overestimating MetalGreymon. You forget, Poring, that I've seen Digimon, too.
I have not forgotten, my friend, that you are a fellow Digimon fan, but your first post in the match put Obelisk in the Reaper class, and described him as being both too big and too powerful for the weight class, so forgive me if I felt that you have it the other way around: you're the one overestimating Obelisk and underestimating MetalGreymon.
In the second season of Digimon, Raidramon's storm is able to take out the Dark Spiral controlling MetalGreymon. This suggests to me that MetalGreymon isn't quite as fast as you seem to think.
Allow me to refresh your memory.
A few things to note here (I'm linking the exact episode you mentioned, albiet in German, though I'd be happy to translate if necessary):
1) Observe, first, that MetalGreymon is under the control of the Digimon Emperor, and is therefore slower than he normally is (because he has to wait for commands before moving), so his speed was considerably nerfed, and not to mention the fact that he wasn't flying.
2) Now, even with nerfed speed and not using his aerial capabilities an entire team of Digidestined Digimon fought against him, with the following results (again, I'm staying by the battle you yourself proposed to cite):
Digmon: Evaded multiple Drill Missles.
Nefertimon: Evaded Curse of the Queen.
Garurumon: Evaded Howling Blaster.
All in the video. The only attacks he didn't evade were from Halsemon (whose Tempest Wing conjured up a whirlwind, which literally did nothing but irritate him) and Raidramon (who had to cheat, because, if you watch closely, Raidramon had to use his impressive speed to close in on MetalGreymon, with assistance from Garurumon for a distraction, before using his lightning attack point blank; he couldn't have missed at that point). We have every reason to believe a long range lightning beam attack wouldn't have hit him either, based on how he was able to dodge everything else thrown at him (and let's not forget that MetalGreymon is easily twice as large as each of his opponents; unless you want to argue that they can't hit the broad side of a skyscraper, you'd have to acknowledge that MetalGreymon can dodge energy attacks at a relatively close range). Raidramon only succeeded because of his impressive speed, which makes him the fastest of the land-running Armor-level Digimon. They didn't actually even beat MetalGreymon in the end; they had to free him from mind control, and even then it took an entire party of Digimon to do so, and that was a mindless version of him, not the more powerful version we have of him for this match.
Additionally, I feel like MetalGreymon and a BEWD would one-for-one - you've seen White Lightning in action.
In that case, you and I will simply have to disagree, but personally, I was never impressed with a single BEWD. Kaiba had to always use three of them to threaten Yugi, and he still would lose every time.
To be fair, I think WarGreymon and Obelisk would be more evenly matched with WarGreymon being slightly more agile thus taking the advantage. Digivolutions always seem to leave a huge gap in power from the previous level.
I agree with you that Digimon tiers vary vastly from level to level (the official "equation" to this is that 10 Champions are an Ultimate and 10 Ultimates are a Mega, if the Dark Towers used to create BlackWarGreymon are any indication), but WarGreymon would be too much for Duel Disk Obelisk to handle, but may not be able to take Egyptian God Obelisk (take note that, in my POV, I'm using DD Oberlisk as the basis for this battle, but you seem to be using EG Obelisk, so we're probably talking about different things).
However, Obelisk could eat MetalGreymon for breakfast. Sure, Giga Blaster is a pair of bigass missiles...and? Obelisk has his Fist of Fate, which could easily decimate the missiles as they're coming at him. You have to bear in mind that Obelisk's strength is massive, and he's not just throwing a punch - he's using his energy as a monster in that hand of his.
I already acknowledge Obelisk's strength as being able to bust a BEWD into millions of bits, but MetalGreymon's Giga Blaster could arguably do the same.
Thus, I cite this video:
For the first half, Chaos Etemon is a huge being the size of a small moon, floating around, and can casually destroy the reality of the Digital World with a single toss of a glowing sphere. He effortlessly creates black holes that destroy an entire mountain and the digital equivalent of the Great Sphinx in Egypt. Birdramon and Kabuterimon's energy attacks do nothing to him, and each of their blasts is capable of causing serious damage to a small house. MetalGreymon shows up and smashes one of the black-hole-creating-energy-spheres with his claw (which is pretty fast). He then rams Chaos Etemon (who is easily twice MetalGreymon's size), and blasts him with those two big missles. What does it do? It causes Chaos Etemon to explode and tear a hole in reality.
He didn't even have to fly for that match, and he trivially beat another Ultimate level Digimon. Since this is Tai's veteran MetalGreymon from the end of the series, his powers have grown a lot since then, we just never see him as much in action because the power levels spike up appropriately for the Myotismon arc.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Plaguefather, you are correct, but I am, as you put it, "obviously", aware of the actual size of the Egyptian God Obelisk, and that the hologram is a limiter to his actual size. However, because this is the "Gundam-Class", I am also obviously assuming that no contestant is bigger than they should be, which is why I cited the video. After all, Obelisk unleashed is clearly too big and too powerful for this weight class, and logic dictates that we shouldn't assume that a character has abilities which would render every other opponent in the weight class trivial, otherwise there would be no point in having a tournament at all.
If you want to play that "size matters" card, I explained in a rather detailed post back in the nominations thread that a Digimon's size also fluctuates (because Digimon, being Digital Monsters, are made up of Data, which can expand or compress relative to the situation, just like with Kaiba's Duel Disk technology) depending on their opponents. If Obelisk's size is variable, MetalGreymon's should adjust accordingly, and this would be justified in Digimon canon and lore. So now the two are equal in size. Next point?
Thank you, Jay13x. This clarification is all I needed to build up a counter argument.
As I mentioned in my rebuttal to Plaguefather, I am perfectly aware of how large the Egyptian God Obelisk is, Iso. In fact, you are as well, and I quoted you to show how correct you are in pointing out how that version of Obelisk is both too large and too powerful for this weight class, which is why I went to the trouble to select a video of the version of Obelisk which I thought (correctly, I might add, as Jay13x vindicated me in the above quote) I voted to have nominated. It makes no sense for the "omnipotent" version of Obelisk to be in a weight class where he is leagues beyond everyone else in size and power, so I picked that video, not out of ignorance, but in the interest of fairness.
Thank you for linking the card. I was looking for that.
Let's start by translating it to Magic terms (for those not knowledgable in Yu-Gi-Oh, or are too lazy to click the link): Obelisk is uncounterable (or has splitsecond) and has shroud (or has hexproof), and vigilance (because in Yu-Gi-Oh, creatures need not tap to attack). It has 4000 power and tougness, which makes it around 33% more powerful than BlueEyesWhiteDragon in terms of power, and 60% more powerful in terms of tougness, despite BEWD being regarded in the Anime as the most powerful creature in the game for Season 1 (or at least the first story arc).
I still stand by the idea that MetalGreymon can utterly destroy a BEWD with the same ease that Obelisk can, and therefore the Duel Disk Obelisk is a fair match for MetalGreymon, and well suited for this weight class.
Now read the fine print for his "Wrath of God" ability: "You can tribute 2 monsters [to] destroy all monsters your opponents control"
Now, I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in years, but if I remember correctly, this ability can only be activated if, in Magic terms, one is able to "Sacrifice two creatures: Destroy all creatures your opponents control".
This is a 1-on-1 match, and therefore, without other monsters to tribute, Obelisk clearly doesn't have access to his Wrath ability. Next point?
As I wrote in my rebuttal to Iso, Obelisk can only do this if certain conditions are met, which cannot be fulfilled in a 1-on-1 match. However, I remember that in the Anime, they usually forego the whole "tribute necessary" clause for plot purposes, so I'll assume that Obelisk in the Anime has "When Obelisk the Tormentor comes into play, destroy all creatures your opponents control"... which still makes him too powerful for the tournament, since Obelisk merely materializing on Earth would utterly destroy his opponent regardless of weight class. Mechanically (within the confines of his own game), and for the sake of fairness, this makes absolutely no sense, so I would assume that this ability is something he cannot have access to for the match.
Oh, and no, MetalGreymon can't wrath an opponent's board, but here's what he can do: he can fly at extreme speed despite his size (which Duel Disk Obelisk cannot do), he can launch missles from his chest (which Obelisk regardless of form cannot do), and he can also rip apart creatures with his claws (which Duel Disk Obelisk can do, as in how he destroyed a BEWD without much effort in the video I linked).
However, unlike Obelisk, MetalGreymon can do this without needing to have access to magical powers that ruin the spirit of the tournament, of which I was under the impression that this would be a good old-fashioned mecha vs. kaiju showdown involving physical brawls, fire breath, various lasers and missles, and some serious city-leveling smackdowns, and not "Contestant X obliterates his opponent with a thought. Next match."
I stand by the opinion that the Obelisk fighting in this weight class should be the one who takes on monsters with his fists (who is already pretty powerful), and not the one who can wipe out Reaper Class monsters on a technicality.
TLDR version of my post: I suggest everyone reevaluate their votes, or at least the version of Obelisk they are voting for. It's probably too late to save this match due to the commanding 7-1 lead in favor of Obelisk, but in the future, Obelisk shouldn't be considered too powerful to beat.
Their ARE however humans, which he could "eat" to use his ability, Kill to humans own opponent, Obilisk doesn't need to control his sacrfises,
I have not forgotten, my friend, that you are a fellow Digimon fan, but your first post in the match put Obelisk in the Reaper class, and described him as being both too big and too powerful for the weight class, so forgive me if I felt that you have it the other way around: you're the one overestimating Obelisk and underestimating MetalGreymon.
Allow me to refresh your memory.
A few things to note here (I'm linking the exact episode you mentioned, albiet in German, though I'd be happy to translate if necessary):
1) Observe, first, that MetalGreymon is under the control of the Digimon Emperor, and is therefore slower than he normally is (because he has to wait for commands before moving), so his speed was considerably nerfed, and not to mention the fact that he wasn't flying.
2) Now, even with nerfed speed and not using his aerial capabilities an entire team of Digidestined Digimon fought against him, with the following results (again, I'm staying by the battle you yourself proposed to cite):
Digmon: Evaded multiple Drill Missles.
Nefertimon: Evaded Curse of the Queen.
Garurumon: Evaded Howling Blaster.
All in the video. The only attacks he didn't evade were from Halsemon (whose Tempest Wing conjured up a whirlwind, which literally did nothing but irritate him) and Raidramon (who had to cheat, because, if you watch closely, Raidramon had to use his impressive speed to close in on MetalGreymon, with assistance from Garurumon for a distraction, before using his lightning attack point blank; he couldn't have missed at that point). We have every reason to believe a long range lightning beam attack wouldn't have hit him either, based on how he was able to dodge everything else thrown at him (and let's not forget that MetalGreymon is easily twice as large as each of his opponents; unless you want to argue that they can't hit the broad side of a skyscraper, you'd have to acknowledge that MetalGreymon can dodge energy attacks at a relatively close range). Raidramon only succeeded because of his impressive speed, which makes him the fastest of the land-running Armor-level Digimon. They didn't actually even beat MetalGreymon in the end; they had to free him from mind control, and even then it took an entire party of Digimon to do so, and that was a mindless version of him, not the more powerful version we have of him for this match.
In that case, you and I will simply have to disagree, but personally, I was never impressed with a single BEWD. Kaiba had to always use three of them to threaten Yugi, and he still would lose every time.
I agree with you that Digimon tiers vary vastly from level to level (the official "equation" to this is that 10 Champions are an Ultimate and 10 Ultimates are a Mega, if the Dark Towers used to create BlackWarGreymon are any indication), but WarGreymon would be too much for Duel Disk Obelisk to handle, but may not be able to take Egyptian God Obelisk (take note that, in my POV, I'm using DD Oberlisk as the basis for this battle, but you seem to be using EG Obelisk, so we're probably talking about different things).
I already acknowledge Obelisk's strength as being able to bust a BEWD into millions of bits, but MetalGreymon's Giga Blaster could arguably do the same.
Thus, I cite this video:
For the first half, Chaos Etemon is a huge being the size of a small moon, floating around, and can casually destroy the reality of the Digital World with a single toss of a glowing sphere. He effortlessly creates black holes that destroy an entire mountain and the digital equivalent of the Great Sphinx in Egypt. Birdramon and Kabuterimon's energy attacks do nothing to him, and each of their blasts is capable of causing serious damage to a small house. MetalGreymon shows up and smashes one of the black-hole-creating-energy-spheres with his claw (which is pretty fast). He then rams Chaos Etemon (who is easily twice MetalGreymon's size), and blasts him with those two big missles. What does it do? It causes Chaos Etemon to explode and tear a hole in reality.
He didn't even have to fly for that match, and he trivially beat another Ultimate level Digimon. Since this is Tai's veteran MetalGreymon from the end of the series, his powers have grown a lot since then, we just never see him as much in action because the power levels spike up appropriately for the Myotismon arc.
Wut? Etemon was not close the size of a small moon in that video. Not to mention destroying a mountain is not that impressive in the Yugioh world.
You say Obelisk is OP for being able to one shot monsters, but apparently 1 shotting something "the size of a small moon" is considered fair and balanced.
Their ARE however humans, which he could "eat" to use his ability, Kill to humans own opponent, Obilisk doesn't need to control his sacrfises,
I was afraid someone would argue this. This means that, as long as Obelisk is fighting on a terrain anywhere on the planet where there are at least two people for him to sacrifice (two "tribute monsters"), he can one shot his opponents regardless of power.
Wut? Etemon was not close the size of a small moon in that video. Not to mention destroying a mountain is not that impressive in the Yugioh world.
You say Obelisk is OP for being able to one shot monsters, but apparently 1 shotting something "the size of a small moon" is considered fair and balanced.
Very good, Von. You illustrated a very poignant point for me quite clearly, that hyperbole, as a literary device, is so often used in debating these battles. Of course, you do realize that if I wanted to outright lie about MetalGreymon's powers, I wouldn't have posted the link that would have obviously contradicted what I said?
By the way, Etemon also clearly imploded under the weight of his own instability. MetalGreymon's missles simply triggered the meltdown that made Etemon's power fluctuate and cause the tear in reality. I hope you're happy that you called me out on this without touching anyone else's arguments. Despite the length of my post, all you commented on was my creative use of language to try and even an already unbalanced match.
So yes, as long as Obelisk can "decimate cities with a single blow and should be in the Reaper Class" (paraphrasing Iso), "is a God" (paraphrasing Plaguefather) and "is capable of owning his opponent by eating a few people" (paraphrasing draftguy2), I consider "destroying a small moon" to be a very fair, if not mild, argument indeed. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use exaggeration? It's what everyone else is clearly doing, and I don't see why you're specifically calling me out on this, especially since no one else is supporting MetalGreymon. Besides, you yourself said "destroying a small mountain is not impressive in the Yu-Gi-Oh world" (paraphrasing Von), so it's not like you aren't completely free from using such arguments whenever necessary to state your case.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
1) Observe, first, that MetalGreymon is under the control of the Digimon Emperor, and is therefore slower than he normally is (because he has to wait for commands before moving), so his speed was considerably nerfed, and not to mention the fact that he wasn't flying.
That shouldn't change his natural instinct to defend himself when threatened.
Quote from Poring »
2) Now, even with nerfed speed and not using his aerial capabilities an entire team of Digidestined Digimon fought against him, with the following results (again, I'm staying by the battle you yourself proposed to cite):
Digmon: Evaded multiple Drill Missles.
Nefertimon: Evaded Curse of the Queen.
Garurumon: Evaded Howling Blaster.
All in the video. The only attacks he didn't evade were from Halsemon (whose Tempest Wing conjured up a whirlwind, which literally did nothing but irritate him) and Raidramon (who had to cheat, because, if you watch closely, Raidramon had to use his impressive speed to close in on MetalGreymon, with assistance from Garurumon for a distraction, before using his lightning attack point blank; he couldn't have missed at that point). We have every reason to believe a long range lightning beam attack wouldn't have hit him either, based on how he was able to dodge everything else thrown at him (and let's not forget that MetalGreymon is easily twice as large as each of his opponents; unless you want to argue that they can't hit the broad side of a skyscraper, you'd have to acknowledge that MetalGreymon can dodge energy attacks at a relatively close range). Raidramon only succeeded because of his impressive speed, which makes him the fastest of the land-running Armor-level Digimon. They didn't actually even beat MetalGreymon in the end; they had to free him from mind control, and even then it took an entire party of Digimon to do so, and that was a mindless version of him, not the more powerful version we have of him for this match.
But the point is, you acknowledge the validity of my own argument here! The tier difference in Digimon is massive and indicates what I was talking about.
Quote from Poring »
In that case, you and I will simply have to disagree, but personally, I was never impressed with a single BEWD. Kaiba had to always use three of them to threaten Yugi, and he still would lose every time.
That's because Kaiba was a whiny rich boy. Yugi had to earn his skills. Kaiba could never match Bakura's level of strategy and that is why he would never be an adequate opponent for Yugi to face. That doesn't change the fact that beating Kaiba's BEWD MASSIVELY boosted Bakura's Diabound.
Quote from Poring »
I agree with you that Digimon tiers vary vastly from level to level (the official "equation" to this is that 10 Champions are an Ultimate and 10 Ultimates are a Mega, if the Dark Towers used to create BlackWarGreymon are any indication), but WarGreymon would be too much for Duel Disk Obelisk to handle, but may not be able to take Egyptian God Obelisk (take note that, in my POV, I'm using DD Oberlisk as the basis for this battle, but you seem to be using EG Obelisk, so we're probably talking about different things).
I'm talking about DD Obelisk. If we're talking about relative power here as compared to other creatures of the same continuity, Obelisk is by far one of the most powerful Yu-Gi-Oh! monsters with an ATK and DEF of 4000. To put that into perspective, let's say MetalGreymon is a monster you can summon with 2 tributes (because Ultimate-level). The strongest 2-tribute monster you can summon without additional cards to help you is Ultimate Obedient Fiend, which has ONLY 3500 ATK compared to Obelisk's 4000 (and UOF reminds me strongly of Diaboromon in appearance! Let's see MetalGreymon take out Diaboromon!) and it has a huge drawback ability. Obelisk and a handful of other monsters require 3 tributes because their power is just that massive. I am absolutely certain that Obelisk could tear apart a MetalSeadramon, which MetalGreymon can't even scratch.
Quote from Poring »
For the first half, Chaos Etemon is a huge being the size of a small moon, floating around, and can casually destroy the reality of the Digital World with a single toss of a glowing sphere. He effortlessly creates black holes that destroy an entire mountain and the digital equivalent of the Great Sphinx in Egypt. Birdramon and Kabuterimon's energy attacks do nothing to him, and each of their blasts is capable of causing serious damage to a small house. MetalGreymon shows up and smashes one of the black-hole-creating-energy-spheres with his claw (which is pretty fast). He then rams Chaos Etemon (who is easily twice MetalGreymon's size), and blasts him with those two big missles. What does it do? It causes Chaos Etemon to explode and tear a hole in reality.
That's indicative of the nature of Etemon's power, not MetalGreymon's own power.
Quote from Poring »
He didn't even have to fly for that match, and he trivially beat another Ultimate level Digimon. Since this is Tai's veteran MetalGreymon from the end of the series, his powers have grown a lot since then, we just never see him as much in action because the power levels spike up appropriately for the Myotismon arc.
Obelisk could definitely take out VenomMyotismon, too. Who, by the way, took WarGreymon AND MetalGarurumon to defeat.
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Wow, I would NOT compare Diaboromon to UOF... I would compare it more to Diabound than anything else... Incredibly hard to hit, Massively fast, incredibly powerful to boot (Literally smashing two other Mega Level Digimon into bits...) Diabound even Defeated the Gods themselves... Somehow... (usually missed those parts of the mangas...lol, only got to catch Diabound reversing time and unsummoning The Sun Dragon of Ra)
or I would Compare it to The Wicked Dreadroot, but certainly not UOF...lol.
Either way, back on topic. Why are we using BEWD as a basis for Metalgreymon's power level? Shouldn't we use something a bit more like MGM? Like, Metal Dragon? Or Red Eyes Black Metal Dragon? (BTW, REBMD was pretty colossal in the series too.)
Dunno, but comparing him to BEWD when the two aren't similar at all just doesn't seem right... MGM should be compared to another powerful dragon with Cybernetic components in my opinion...
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Wow, I would NOT compare Diaboromon to UOF... I would compare it more to Diabound than anything else... Incredibly hard to hit, Massively fast, incredibly powerful to boot (Literally smashing two other Mega Level Digimon into bits...) Diabound even Defeated the Gods themselves... Somehow... (usually missed those parts of the mangas...lol, only got to catch Diabound reversing time and unsummoning The Sun Dragon of Ra)
or I would Compare it to The Wicked Dreadroot, but certainly not UOF...lol.
Either way, back on topic. Why are we using BEWD as a basis for Metalgreymon's power level? Shouldn't we use something a bit more like MGM? Like, Metal Dragon? Or Red Eyes Black Metal Dragon? (BTW, REBMD was pretty colossal in the series too.)
Dunno, but comparing him to BEWD when the two aren't similar at all just doesn't seem right... MGM should be compared to another powerful dragon with Cybernetic components in my opinion...
No, that's a completely cybernetic dragon, MGM Is only part cybernetics...
Hence why I compared it to Red Eyes Black Metal Dragon, since that dragon only had armor and etc on it... Should still be a dragon type, not machine. lol.
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But the point is, you acknowledge the validity of my own argument here! The tier difference in Digimon is massive and indicates what I was talking about.
Never said you were wrong; I didn't disagree with you on that point. I even provided an equation based on the Dark Towers of Digimon 02 that Arukenimon is capable of transforming into Digimon:
1 tower is a Champion
10 towers is an Ultimate
100 towers is a Mega (used to make BlackWarGreymon)
Therefore the average amount of Digimon it takes to match one of the higher tier is ten, mathematically speaking.
I'm talking about DD Obelisk. If we're talking about relative power here as compared to other creatures of the same continuity, Obelisk is by far one of the most powerful Yu-Gi-Oh! monsters with an ATK and DEF of 4000. To put that into perspective, let's say MetalGreymon is a monster you can summon with 2 tributes (because Ultimate-level). The strongest 2-tribute monster you can summon without additional cards to help you is Ultimate Obedient Fiend, which has ONLY 3500 ATK compared to Obelisk's 4000 (and UOF reminds me strongly of Diaboromon in appearance! Let's see MetalGreymon take out Diaboromon!) and it has a huge drawback ability. Obelisk and a handful of other monsters require 3 tributes because their power is just that massive. I am absolutely certain that Obelisk could tear apart a MetalSeadramon, which MetalGreymon can't even scratch.
Okay, so you stand by Obelisk being able to destroy VenomMyotismon and MetalSeadramon. I can respect that opinion.
Let's put some facts out here:
Above is VenomMyotismon, clearly emerging from a building, destroying it from the inside, towering over Odaiba, and is clearly bigger than the Fuji Television Headquarters, featured in the TV series for scale, which, according to that travel guide link I provided, is over 100 meters tall. By juxtaposition, this means that VenomMyotismon is clearly taller than 100 meters.
Above is MetalSeadramon, whose length and height tower over even very gigantic sea Digimon, like Whamon (the whale Digimon), who isn't even a fourth his size. If Whamon is anything like an average blue whale (probably bigger, since the Digidestined and their Digimon can travel safely within him with no issue), that makes Whamon somewhere between 20-30 meters (a generously small estimate). MetalSeadramon, being at least four times as much, should easily be in the 80-120 meters range.
Now let's look at Jay13x's description of the Gundam Class tier (which, supposedly, Obelisk belongs to):
Gundam-Class Nominations
Height: 10-20 meters
Power: Can level many small buildings or one large building with ease
Now, I don't think MetalSeadramon and VenomMyotismon fit that description, given the evidence I just showed you for scale, and yet you think that Obelisk can defeat those two with relative ease.
Based on the fact that you think Obelisk can defeat two Mega level Digimon whose size and strength are well beyond the Gundam tier, and the various arguments made in the thread (such as Von's "mountains are trivial" argument; a mountain is still larger than many small buildings or one large one, and I should know, I live in a place surrounded by them), it seems that, once again, one of my nominations (the other one being The Hydra) is being pitted against an opponent who clearly shouldn't belong in the same weight class.
Since none of you seem to believe that Obelisk is OP for this weight class (and you even accuse me of exaggeration, for shame!) despite the concrete, empirical evidence I am providing, maybe it's my fault for nominating characters who were too "weak" to compete... or just my bad luck.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
How could you, when its opponent clearly outclassed it in every way? I nominated the Hydra, but even I didn't vote for it.
For the record, I haven't actually voted in this match yet, but after hearing the overwhelming evidence and opinions, I'll cast my vote for Obelisk, the Tormentor.
Though I like MetalGreymon more, I cannot vote for a character who is clearly less powerful, given all the evidence presented against my case.
I still don't understand why the well-researched nominations that actually belong in the tiers they should have to lose, while those who were not put in the proper weight class get to move on with a free pass to the next round. If I had known this was going to happen, I would have spent considerably less effort in doing my homework for this tournament.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
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How could you, when its opponent clearly outclassed it in every way? I nominated the Hydra, but even I didn't vote for it.
For the record, I haven't actually voted in this match yet, but after hearing the overwhelming evidence and opinions, I'll cast my vote for Obelisk, the Tormentor.
Though I like MetalGreymon more, I cannot vote for a character who is clearly less powerful, given all the evidence presented against my case.
I still don't understand why the well-researched nominations that actually belong in the tiers they should have to lose, while those who were not put in the proper weight class get to move on with a free pass to the next round. If I had known this was going to happen, I would have spent considerably less effort in doing my homework for this tournament.
I stated earlier, Poring, that I believed Obelisk was in the wrong class. I agree with you on that much.
I wondered the same thing, Plaguefather!
Why did I vote for the Hydra instead of wing zero?
Because, I despise the series "Gundam Wing" with a fiery passion, to me, it's not real Gundam, because everything in it is passed off, even the armor is called "gundaniam Alloy" ...really? Plus, the emo characters, just ticked me off....
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Combatants are from specific universes, and while parallel versions of themselves may exist, the specific version referenced in included in parentheses after the combatant's name. All machines requiring pilots will generally have their pilots named in their summaries, and those pilots are assumed to be in the machines. However, the Extraliens have implanted thoughts of aggressiveness in all of the combatants, and they must fight if the Extraliens pit them against one another. They have also been given knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of those they fight against.
Write-ups are appreciated, as elements from the best write ups will be included in the story conclusion. Voting can be done like TOC, you may select a poll option and/or post your choice. All in-text votes MUST BE IN BOLD.
Summary of battles so far:
Alduin defeats King Kong.
Gundam-Class
Wing Zero defeated the Hydra.
Clover-Class
Eva Unit 01 defeated the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man (and is moved up to Godzilla-Class due to incorrect size listing).
Godzilla-Class
Gipsy Danger defeats the Ultrazord.
Reaper-Class
Serpentera defeats Deathwing.
Background on the Combatants:
Height: ~9 meters (Estimate based on Tai standing next to him)
http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/MetalGreymon
Summary: Accompanying his friend Tai while stuck in the Digital World, against great threats Greymon can Digivolve into MetalGreymon. Torn from the Digital World and inserted into the real world, MetalGreymon searches for his friend Tai and a way back home.
Obelisk the Tormentor (Yu-Gi-Oh)
Height: ?
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Appearances:Obelisk_the_Tormentor
Summary: Played by Seto Kaiba during a tournament, this powerful Egyption God card took on a life of it’s own and quickly disappeared from play. Free of it’s restraints and the threat of it’s enemies from the card game, Obelisk is unleashed onto our world.
Story:MetalGreymon materializes in what appears to be a swamp. Jumping at a sudden crocodile attack, he feels silly as he realizes it's fake. A boat of passengers motors past him as everyone inside points at him and shouts. However, the screams from farther away reach him first as he looks up to see a magical-looking castle with an evil looking beings descending down the side.
MetalGreymon rushes outside, careful to avoid stomping any people, he realizes he is in a theme park of some kind. His curiosity is put on hold but a sudden desire to stop the creature he saw earlier.
Meanwhile, Obelisk grins with pleasure at the number of new victims he has found.
Battlefield: Celebration, Florida
Situation: The Magic Kingdom Theme park is packed full of tourists.
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Obelisk is a God...
Metalgreymon isn't...
Seems pretty straightforward.
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Vote Obelisk
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Hmmm... I don't know. Forgive me for saying this, but MetalGreymon would probably destroy a BlueEyesWhiteDragon rather easily. He's essentially a BEWD with cybernetic armor, flight, and missle launchers. Obelisk's card statistics aren't that much higher than a BEWD either, so make of that what you will.
A God, you say? So was Deathwing (Aspect of Death and all that). In fact, so was the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man (Physical manifestation of Gozer). Didn't save them from losing the previous round, did it?
Can we please forego the "This character is God" arguments? We've already established that even Gods can fall. Besides, if we're going to play that card (hah, pun intended) MGM destroyed Chaos Etemon, a creature who, with similar random destruction and reality shattering powers, would have wiped out the entire Digital world.
Are we using the "Egyptian God" version of Obelisk, or the version that Kaiba summons and uses to fight for duels? The former is probably in another weight class because of what Iso said. The latter can beat up many opponents without fatigue, and is only a few feet taller than Kaiba, a size comparable to MGM and Tai, and is probably a fairer fight, because it can also destroy monsters that MGM could take on with relative equality.
This is the Obelisk I had in mind, capable of laying waste to some of the most powerful creatures in the game:
Until this question is answered, I'm witholding my vote. I've watched both Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon Adventure, so I'd like a power level clarification before I pass my opinion along.
How well do you do against one?
That's simply a hologram image of Obelisk... Obviously his size is contained within the holographic generator's capabilities... So his size changes rather than being constant, unlike the Egyptian God of the Obelisk, whose size and powers are constant... Besides, Obelisk's ability to gain Infinite Power makes him much to powerful for this contest, so Obviously I voted for Obelisk because he is so powerful...
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This is Kaiba's summon for duels Obelisk. He does not have infinite or God-like power, otherwise he'd be too broken for this weight class.
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Are you joking, Poring? Kaiba is the size of Obelisk's fist, if that. And the only reason he's not bigger is so that the room can contain the holographic image!
Regardless, Obelisk requires 3 monsters as tribute, can destroy any opponents' monster through his effect, and...well, see for yourself.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130702163452/yugioh/images/thumb/d/d4/ObelisktheTormentor-BP02-EN-MSR-1E.png/300px-ObelisktheTormentor-BP02-EN-MSR-1E.png
Obelisk is damn powerful, ridiculous god card anime version or not.
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even still, Obelisk can wrath the opponent's board... Metalgreymon can't do that...lol.
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Plaguefather, you are correct, but I am, as you put it, "obviously", aware of the actual size of the Egyptian God Obelisk, and that the hologram is a limiter to his actual size. However, because this is the "Gundam-Class", I am also obviously assuming that no contestant is bigger than they should be, which is why I cited the video. After all, Obelisk unleashed is clearly too big and too powerful for this weight class, and logic dictates that we shouldn't assume that a character has abilities which would render every other opponent in the weight class trivial, otherwise there would be no point in having a tournament at all.
If you want to play that "size matters" card, I explained in a rather detailed post back in the nominations thread that a Digimon's size also fluctuates (because Digimon, being Digital Monsters, are made up of Data, which can expand or compress relative to the situation, just like with Kaiba's Duel Disk technology) depending on their opponents. If Obelisk's size is variable, MetalGreymon's should adjust accordingly, and this would be justified in Digimon canon and lore. So now the two are equal in size. Next point?
Thank you, Jay13x. This clarification is all I needed to build up a counter argument.
As I mentioned in my rebuttal to Plaguefather, I am perfectly aware of how large the Egyptian God Obelisk is, Iso. In fact, you are as well, and I quoted you to show how correct you are in pointing out how that version of Obelisk is both too large and too powerful for this weight class, which is why I went to the trouble to select a video of the version of Obelisk which I thought (correctly, I might add, as Jay13x vindicated me in the above quote) I voted to have nominated. It makes no sense for the "omnipotent" version of Obelisk to be in a weight class where he is leagues beyond everyone else in size and power, so I picked that video, not out of ignorance, but in the interest of fairness.
Thank you for linking the card. I was looking for that.
Let's start by translating it to Magic terms (for those not knowledgable in Yu-Gi-Oh, or are too lazy to click the link): Obelisk is uncounterable (or has splitsecond) and has shroud (or has hexproof), and vigilance (because in Yu-Gi-Oh, creatures need not tap to attack). It has 4000 power and tougness, which makes it around 33% more powerful than BlueEyesWhiteDragon in terms of power, and 60% more powerful in terms of tougness, despite BEWD being regarded in the Anime as the most powerful creature in the game for Season 1 (or at least the first story arc).
I still stand by the idea that MetalGreymon can utterly destroy a BEWD with the same ease that Obelisk can, and therefore the Duel Disk Obelisk is a fair match for MetalGreymon, and well suited for this weight class.
Now read the fine print for his "Wrath of God" ability: "You can tribute 2 monsters [to] destroy all monsters your opponents control"
Now, I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in years, but if I remember correctly, this ability can only be activated if, in Magic terms, one is able to "Sacrifice two creatures: Destroy all creatures your opponents control".
This is a 1-on-1 match, and therefore, without other monsters to tribute, Obelisk clearly doesn't have access to his Wrath ability. Next point?
As I wrote in my rebuttal to Iso, Obelisk can only do this if certain conditions are met, which cannot be fulfilled in a 1-on-1 match. However, I remember that in the Anime, they usually forego the whole "tribute necessary" clause for plot purposes, so I'll assume that Obelisk in the Anime has "When Obelisk the Tormentor comes into play, destroy all creatures your opponents control"... which still makes him too powerful for the tournament, since Obelisk merely materializing on Earth would utterly destroy his opponent regardless of weight class. Mechanically (within the confines of his own game), and for the sake of fairness, this makes absolutely no sense, so I would assume that this ability is something he cannot have access to for the match.
Oh, and no, MetalGreymon can't wrath an opponent's board, but here's what he can do: he can fly at extreme speed despite his size (which Duel Disk Obelisk cannot do), he can launch missles from his chest (which Obelisk regardless of form cannot do), and he can also rip apart creatures with his claws (which Duel Disk Obelisk can do, as in how he destroyed a BEWD without much effort in the video I linked).
However, unlike Obelisk, MetalGreymon can do this without needing to have access to magical powers that ruin the spirit of the tournament, of which I was under the impression that this would be a good old-fashioned mecha vs. kaiju showdown involving physical brawls, fire breath, various lasers and missles, and some serious city-leveling smackdowns, and not "Contestant X obliterates his opponent with a thought. Next match."
I stand by the opinion that the Obelisk fighting in this weight class should be the one who takes on monsters with his fists (who is already pretty powerful), and not the one who can wipe out Reaper Class monsters on a technicality.
TLDR version of my post: I suggest everyone reevaluate their votes, or at least the version of Obelisk they are voting for. It's probably too late to save this match due to the commanding 7-1 lead in favor of Obelisk, but in the future, Obelisk shouldn't be considered too powerful to beat.
How well do you do against one?
In the second season of Digimon, Raidramon's storm is able to take out the Dark Spiral controlling MetalGreymon. This suggests to me that MetalGreymon isn't quite as fast as you seem to think. Additionally, I feel like MetalGreymon and a BEWD would one-for-one - you've seen White Lightning in action. To be fair, I think WarGreymon and Obelisk would be more evenly matched with WarGreymon being slightly more agile thus taking the advantage. Digivolutions always seem to leave a huge gap in power from the previous level. However, Obelisk could eat MetalGreymon for breakfast. Sure, Giga Blaster is a pair of bigass missiles...and? Obelisk has his Fist of Fate, which could easily decimate the missiles as they're coming at him. You have to bear in mind that Obelisk's strength is massive, and he's not just throwing a punch - he's using his energy as a monster in that hand of his.
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I have not forgotten, my friend, that you are a fellow Digimon fan, but your first post in the match put Obelisk in the Reaper class, and described him as being both too big and too powerful for the weight class, so forgive me if I felt that you have it the other way around: you're the one overestimating Obelisk and underestimating MetalGreymon.
Allow me to refresh your memory.
A few things to note here (I'm linking the exact episode you mentioned, albiet in German, though I'd be happy to translate if necessary):
1) Observe, first, that MetalGreymon is under the control of the Digimon Emperor, and is therefore slower than he normally is (because he has to wait for commands before moving), so his speed was considerably nerfed, and not to mention the fact that he wasn't flying.
2) Now, even with nerfed speed and not using his aerial capabilities an entire team of Digidestined Digimon fought against him, with the following results (again, I'm staying by the battle you yourself proposed to cite):
Digmon: Evaded multiple Drill Missles.
Nefertimon: Evaded Curse of the Queen.
Garurumon: Evaded Howling Blaster.
All in the video. The only attacks he didn't evade were from Halsemon (whose Tempest Wing conjured up a whirlwind, which literally did nothing but irritate him) and Raidramon (who had to cheat, because, if you watch closely, Raidramon had to use his impressive speed to close in on MetalGreymon, with assistance from Garurumon for a distraction, before using his lightning attack point blank; he couldn't have missed at that point). We have every reason to believe a long range lightning beam attack wouldn't have hit him either, based on how he was able to dodge everything else thrown at him (and let's not forget that MetalGreymon is easily twice as large as each of his opponents; unless you want to argue that they can't hit the broad side of a skyscraper, you'd have to acknowledge that MetalGreymon can dodge energy attacks at a relatively close range). Raidramon only succeeded because of his impressive speed, which makes him the fastest of the land-running Armor-level Digimon. They didn't actually even beat MetalGreymon in the end; they had to free him from mind control, and even then it took an entire party of Digimon to do so, and that was a mindless version of him, not the more powerful version we have of him for this match.
In that case, you and I will simply have to disagree, but personally, I was never impressed with a single BEWD. Kaiba had to always use three of them to threaten Yugi, and he still would lose every time.
I agree with you that Digimon tiers vary vastly from level to level (the official "equation" to this is that 10 Champions are an Ultimate and 10 Ultimates are a Mega, if the Dark Towers used to create BlackWarGreymon are any indication), but WarGreymon would be too much for Duel Disk Obelisk to handle, but may not be able to take Egyptian God Obelisk (take note that, in my POV, I'm using DD Oberlisk as the basis for this battle, but you seem to be using EG Obelisk, so we're probably talking about different things).
I already acknowledge Obelisk's strength as being able to bust a BEWD into millions of bits, but MetalGreymon's Giga Blaster could arguably do the same.
Thus, I cite this video:
For the first half, Chaos Etemon is a huge being the size of a small moon, floating around, and can casually destroy the reality of the Digital World with a single toss of a glowing sphere. He effortlessly creates black holes that destroy an entire mountain and the digital equivalent of the Great Sphinx in Egypt. Birdramon and Kabuterimon's energy attacks do nothing to him, and each of their blasts is capable of causing serious damage to a small house. MetalGreymon shows up and smashes one of the black-hole-creating-energy-spheres with his claw (which is pretty fast). He then rams Chaos Etemon (who is easily twice MetalGreymon's size), and blasts him with those two big missles. What does it do? It causes Chaos Etemon to explode and tear a hole in reality.
He didn't even have to fly for that match, and he trivially beat another Ultimate level Digimon. Since this is Tai's veteran MetalGreymon from the end of the series, his powers have grown a lot since then, we just never see him as much in action because the power levels spike up appropriately for the Myotismon arc.
How well do you do against one?
Battle for Earth has been missing this so far.
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Their ARE however humans, which he could "eat" to use his ability, Kill to humans own opponent, Obilisk doesn't need to control his sacrfises,
Wut? Etemon was not close the size of a small moon in that video. Not to mention destroying a mountain is not that impressive in the Yugioh world.
You say Obelisk is OP for being able to one shot monsters, but apparently 1 shotting something "the size of a small moon" is considered fair and balanced.
I was afraid someone would argue this. This means that, as long as Obelisk is fighting on a terrain anywhere on the planet where there are at least two people for him to sacrifice (two "tribute monsters"), he can one shot his opponents regardless of power.
Very good, Von. You illustrated a very poignant point for me quite clearly, that hyperbole, as a literary device, is so often used in debating these battles. Of course, you do realize that if I wanted to outright lie about MetalGreymon's powers, I wouldn't have posted the link that would have obviously contradicted what I said?
By the way, Etemon also clearly imploded under the weight of his own instability. MetalGreymon's missles simply triggered the meltdown that made Etemon's power fluctuate and cause the tear in reality. I hope you're happy that you called me out on this without touching anyone else's arguments. Despite the length of my post, all you commented on was my creative use of language to try and even an already unbalanced match.
So yes, as long as Obelisk can "decimate cities with a single blow and should be in the Reaper Class" (paraphrasing Iso), "is a God" (paraphrasing Plaguefather) and "is capable of owning his opponent by eating a few people" (paraphrasing draftguy2), I consider "destroying a small moon" to be a very fair, if not mild, argument indeed. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use exaggeration? It's what everyone else is clearly doing, and I don't see why you're specifically calling me out on this, especially since no one else is supporting MetalGreymon. Besides, you yourself said "destroying a small mountain is not impressive in the Yu-Gi-Oh world" (paraphrasing Von), so it's not like you aren't completely free from using such arguments whenever necessary to state your case.
How well do you do against one?
That shouldn't change his natural instinct to defend himself when threatened.
But the point is, you acknowledge the validity of my own argument here! The tier difference in Digimon is massive and indicates what I was talking about.
That's because Kaiba was a whiny rich boy. Yugi had to earn his skills. Kaiba could never match Bakura's level of strategy and that is why he would never be an adequate opponent for Yugi to face. That doesn't change the fact that beating Kaiba's BEWD MASSIVELY boosted Bakura's Diabound.
I'm talking about DD Obelisk. If we're talking about relative power here as compared to other creatures of the same continuity, Obelisk is by far one of the most powerful Yu-Gi-Oh! monsters with an ATK and DEF of 4000. To put that into perspective, let's say MetalGreymon is a monster you can summon with 2 tributes (because Ultimate-level). The strongest 2-tribute monster you can summon without additional cards to help you is Ultimate Obedient Fiend, which has ONLY 3500 ATK compared to Obelisk's 4000 (and UOF reminds me strongly of Diaboromon in appearance! Let's see MetalGreymon take out Diaboromon!) and it has a huge drawback ability. Obelisk and a handful of other monsters require 3 tributes because their power is just that massive. I am absolutely certain that Obelisk could tear apart a MetalSeadramon, which MetalGreymon can't even scratch.
That's indicative of the nature of Etemon's power, not MetalGreymon's own power.
Obelisk could definitely take out VenomMyotismon, too. Who, by the way, took WarGreymon AND MetalGarurumon to defeat.
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or I would Compare it to The Wicked Dreadroot, but certainly not UOF...lol.
Either way, back on topic. Why are we using BEWD as a basis for Metalgreymon's power level? Shouldn't we use something a bit more like MGM? Like, Metal Dragon? Or Red Eyes Black Metal Dragon? (BTW, REBMD was pretty colossal in the series too.)
Dunno, but comparing him to BEWD when the two aren't similar at all just doesn't seem right... MGM should be compared to another powerful dragon with Cybernetic components in my opinion...
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Your right more like a Cyber laster Dragon? http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080115193803/yugioh/images/7/72/CyberLaserDragonDR04-EN-R.png&imgrefurl=http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Cyber_Laser_Dragon&h=580&w=400&sz=527&tbnid=RP8lIAstpxPM4M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=62&zoom=1&usg=__Q5LovNpVPsVILX2uYk2QnTalzjg=&docid=smB2rjzAFLHtvM&sa=X&ei=EbYwUqG3HpHwrAH8l4DwDw&ved=0CFMQ9QEwCA&dur=600
No, that's a completely cybernetic dragon, MGM Is only part cybernetics...
Hence why I compared it to Red Eyes Black Metal Dragon, since that dragon only had armor and etc on it... Should still be a dragon type, not machine. lol.
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Which proves my point that MetalGreymon is agile enough to dodge attacks at close range despite his size.
Never said you were wrong; I didn't disagree with you on that point. I even provided an equation based on the Dark Towers of Digimon 02 that Arukenimon is capable of transforming into Digimon:
1 tower is a Champion
10 towers is an Ultimate
100 towers is a Mega (used to make BlackWarGreymon)
Therefore the average amount of Digimon it takes to match one of the higher tier is ten, mathematically speaking.
Already admitted in my reply to Von.
Okay, so you stand by Obelisk being able to destroy VenomMyotismon and MetalSeadramon. I can respect that opinion.
Let's put some facts out here:
Above is VenomMyotismon, clearly emerging from a building, destroying it from the inside, towering over Odaiba, and is clearly bigger than the Fuji Television Headquarters, featured in the TV series for scale, which, according to that travel guide link I provided, is over 100 meters tall. By juxtaposition, this means that VenomMyotismon is clearly taller than 100 meters.
Above is MetalSeadramon, whose length and height tower over even very gigantic sea Digimon, like Whamon (the whale Digimon), who isn't even a fourth his size. If Whamon is anything like an average blue whale (probably bigger, since the Digidestined and their Digimon can travel safely within him with no issue), that makes Whamon somewhere between 20-30 meters (a generously small estimate). MetalSeadramon, being at least four times as much, should easily be in the 80-120 meters range.
Now let's look at Jay13x's description of the Gundam Class tier (which, supposedly, Obelisk belongs to):
Now, I don't think MetalSeadramon and VenomMyotismon fit that description, given the evidence I just showed you for scale, and yet you think that Obelisk can defeat those two with relative ease.
Based on the fact that you think Obelisk can defeat two Mega level Digimon whose size and strength are well beyond the Gundam tier, and the various arguments made in the thread (such as Von's "mountains are trivial" argument; a mountain is still larger than many small buildings or one large one, and I should know, I live in a place surrounded by them), it seems that, once again, one of my nominations (the other one being The Hydra) is being pitted against an opponent who clearly shouldn't belong in the same weight class.
Since none of you seem to believe that Obelisk is OP for this weight class (and you even accuse me of exaggeration, for shame!) despite the concrete, empirical evidence I am providing, maybe it's my fault for nominating characters who were too "weak" to compete... or just my bad luck.
How well do you do against one?
Shouldn't The Mecha be on the Earth Side, and the Kaiju (monsters) be on the other?
And Poring, I voted FOR the hydra...lol.
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How could you, when its opponent clearly outclassed it in every way? I nominated the Hydra, but even I didn't vote for it.
For the record, I haven't actually voted in this match yet, but after hearing the overwhelming evidence and opinions, I'll cast my vote for Obelisk, the Tormentor.
Though I like MetalGreymon more, I cannot vote for a character who is clearly less powerful, given all the evidence presented against my case.
I still don't understand why the well-researched nominations that actually belong in the tiers they should have to lose, while those who were not put in the proper weight class get to move on with a free pass to the next round. If I had known this was going to happen, I would have spent considerably less effort in doing my homework for this tournament.
How well do you do against one?
I wondered the same thing, Plaguefather!
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Why did I vote for the Hydra instead of wing zero?
Because, I despise the series "Gundam Wing" with a fiery passion, to me, it's not real Gundam, because everything in it is passed off, even the armor is called "gundaniam Alloy" ...really? Plus, the emo characters, just ticked me off....
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