Theoretically, changelings are all creature types at all times, so you can have a Dragon Merfolk Faerie Rogue Cleric Wizard if you really wanted to go there.
That is not the crux of the situation, though.
I want to know why you think allowing all colors to have access to an X Spirit Guide is broken.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
OTHER than changlelings, thats, like saying a dragon merfolk is possible.
okay I think we need to get back on the topic here...
Okay Avatar as far as why this is broken. First off, lets think about this rationally:
White
Turn 1: Plains, Suntail Hawk, ASG, Holy Day on opponents turn. Turn 2: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, attack for 3/5, ASG Holy Day on opponents turn. Turn 3: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, Attack for 5/9 for a total of 8 damage on turn 3. And this is in White, a slow color. Normally White would have had to hold back mana in order to be able to holy day on the opponents turn. This, this is just sickening.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
Turn 1: Plains, Suntail Hawk, ASG, Holy Day on opponents turn. Turn 2: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, attack for 3/5, ASG Holy Day on opponents turn. Turn 3: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, Attack for 5/8 for a total of 8 damage on turn 3. And this is in White, a slow color. Normally White would have had to hold back mana in order to be able to holy day on the opponents turn. This, this is just sickening.
On that theoretical second turn, red can Shock in response to that first Holy Strength, black can Terror/Deathmark/Ghastly Demise/ any other random kill spell, white can simply Holy Day right back, and green can Utopia Vow or block it with something like Uktabi Drake or one of the nine million green things that hates on fliers. Blue can Unsummon, which is fairly annoying and gets rid of the auras.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
First turn boomerang? is that it? honestly green can get out of that one quite easily since it still gets to double Ranger on turn one...
Honestly Dalkon why is it that with you every time something gets added you manage to go on a witch hunt because it synergizes with the faerie queen? theres ways around it i mean you can just as easily ESG then Guttural Response the boomerang (gotta wait for shadowmoor but still its an applicable example)
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Sure, blue can fight out of this: Guide, Annul the Trinisphere. Blue seems to be about the only colour, though, as you can't cast artifact removal on the Trinisphere after it has landed. There might be some other way to get out, but they are really rare.
The question here, however, is if it is the boomerangs, the guides or the Trinisphere that causes most problems. My vote goes for the Trinisphere - The guides are strong, but not unbeatable. Boomerang is just something you'll have to deal with, and there are like, 80 different variants of it anyway. Note, also, that any other colour with 3cc "LD" can do this.
And please tell me that you are going to restrict each satchel to 4 of Spirit Guides TOTAL. I'd rather not have someone going: "1 of each spirit guide for mana."
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Honestly Dalkon why is it that with you every time something gets added you manage to go on a witch hunt because it synergizes with the faerie queen? theres ways around it i mean you can just as easily ESG then Guttural Response the boomerang (gotta wait for shadowmoor but still its an applicable example)
WAIT... WHAT??? Witch Hunt? I don't follow? what exactly is your argument?
I merely have a problem with the first turn potential for blue to mill people for 5 cards (or the MTG the RPG equivalent) for a single mana, while at the same time I have another problem with the blue decks being able to land lock just about every deck except maybe black decks which have extirpate, and green decks which are able to get and keep their Skyshroud Rangers on the field long enough to build up a mana base. To me that is a problem.
Granted that problem is slightly mitigated by the Spirit Guides themselves, but not nearly enough.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
WAIT... WHAT??? Witch Hunt? I don't follow? what exactly is your argument?
You heard me, its tiresome you go bemoaning Boomerang as the be all do all of brokeness, the only time this is applicable is in 1v1 which is usually arena matches and there the only color shafter by this is white, incidentally white is also one of the longest lasting colors in PvQ (player vs quest) due to all the damage prevention and life gain they have which allows them to stall until they can reset board and gain the upper hand.
So yeah your complaints about Boomerang and how its so broken are getting old.
I merely have a problem with the first turn potential for blue to mill people for 5 cards (or the MTG the RPG equivalent) for a single mana, while at the same time I have another problem with the blue decks being able to land lock just about every deck except maybe black decks which have extirpate, and green decks which are able to get and keep their Skyshroud Rangers on the field long enough to build up a mana base. To me that is a problem.
Granted that problem is slightly mitigated by the Spirit Guides themselves, but not nearly enough.
Actually again this is only a factor in 1v1 battles which are mostly Arena, and in quests if you really are silly enough to get yourself in a fight with a fellow PC or NPC that uses this tactics then you really consider escaping or just apologizing (anyways WPL's wont really kill you unless you intentionally start the fight or if permanent death was part of the quest possibilities)
@ Amadi: I ask the WPL's to ban Trinisphere right now, if only so Amadi can stop posting Chrome Mox. Trinisphere examples
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Sure, blue can fight out of this: Guide, Annul the Trinisphere. Blue seems to be about the only colour, though, as you can't cast artifact removal on the Trinisphere after it has landed. There might be some other way to get out, but they are really rare.
The question here, however, is if it is the boomerangs, the guides or the Trinisphere that causes most problems. My vote goes for the Trinisphere - The guides are strong, but not unbeatable. Boomerang is just something you'll have to deal with, and there are like, 80 different variants of it anyway. Note, also, that any other colour with 3cc "LD" can do this.
And please tell me that you are going to restrict each satchel to 4 of Spirit Guides TOTAL. I'd rather not have someone going: "1 of each spirit guide for mana."
@ Amadi: I ask the WPL's to ban Trinisphere right now, if only so Amadi can stop posting Chrome Mox. Trinisphere examples
*Bwahahahahah* Soon you will all bow to my will! *Bwahahahaha*
==========
On a more serious note, I just believe it is broken, and lowers all duels this game to the level of: "You lost the roll, do you have answer to turn 1 trinisphere?"
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
You heard me, its tiresome you go bemoaning Boomerang as the be all do all of brokeness, the only time this is applicable is in 1v1 which is usually arena matches and there the only color shafter by this is white, incidentally white is also one of the longest lasting colors in PvQ (player vs quest) due to all the damage prevention and life gain they have which allows them to stall until they can reset board and gain the upper hand.
Incidentally I don't believe I ever stated whether I was discussing PvP or PvE type settings. So I don't think your complaint holds any water against me. Nor do I recall claiming that it was intrinsically broken on its own. What I did claim was that a first turn boomerang was intrinsically more broken (though I think Amadi's point about the first turn Trinisphere was even more valid than the Boomerang) than say a second turn or later boomerang. However I will admit that does not necessarily mean it is unbeatable.
And please tell me that you are going to restrict each satchel to 4 of Spirit Guides TOTAL. I'd rather not have someone going: "1 of each spirit guide for mana."
I'm guessing that since each color will now have a Spirit Guide, they will revert back to the "can only use it if you can use the color" restriction. And it is one SG use per turn, not one of every color per turn (I'm guessing, but it's an educated one... ).
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They love and hate to see me walk through the door. I'm the man with the box, one to carry all his Standard cards with him. I've got the commons and uncommons they need. But I've also got my decks. If I walk into FNM, I came to play. And they never know what I'm gonna pull out of my hat next. I may lose more than I win, but it just might be THIS deck that has all the answers that they don't have answers for. They fear the unknown. They fear me. And they never see me coming!
Incidentally I don't believe I ever stated whether I was discussing PvP or PvE type settings. So I don't think your complaint holds any water against me. Nor do I recall claiming that it was intrinsically broken on its own. What I did claim was that a first turn boomerang was intrinsically more broken (though I think Amadi's point about the first turn Trinisphere was even more valid than the Boomerang) than say a second turn or later boomerang. However I will admit that does not necessarily mean it is unbeatable.
Turn 1: Island, Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox, Trinisphere, pass.
Turn 2: Island,
I count 3 sources of permanent mana by turn 2 in that scenerio, the Mox, and the 2 Islands.
Yeah was thinking about the wrong card. There are a few plays that some mages will be able to perform but the trinisphere definitely is a head ache if you lose the roll in the arena. But that's still just arena play and not quest play. I rather not say my green response so I still have an answer when Amadi tries to pull this.
Yeah was thinking about the wrong card. There are a few plays that some mages will be able to perform but the trinisphere definitely is a head ache if you lose the roll in the arena. But that's still just arena play and not quest play. I rather not say my green response so I still have an answer when Amadi tries to pull this.
ESG, Oxidize the Mox. Too bad it doesn't help as he has more Guides to cast boomerangs with.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I honestly can't imagine why anyone would fight a blue mage with that satchel. He'd never win any matches because he'd only get one opponent, the first who discovered the Sphere. I think even WPLs would refuse to fight him with NPCs unless they had an answer.
Hey, is there anyone else on the forums going to Rice University in Houston? We could ALWAYS use more people in our Magic games. PM me if you want to play sometime
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Funny thing about the blue and white proposed mages is that if i'm a decently designed red mage I just laugh my butt off as i burn you out in a few turns as you waste spells targeting my lands.
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Originally commissioned through High~Light Studios
Funny thing about the blue and white proposed mages is that if i'm a decently designed red mage I just laugh my butt off as i burn you out in a few turns as you waste spells targeting my lands.
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
You know, I used to think that Trinisphere was a good tactic against burn decks.
Then I used it in my sideboard in my Legacy Mono Black Control deck.
It doesn't bother them, really. It just takes an extra turn for you to die.
The difference is that your MBC doesn't have recurring LD that can stop them from ever getting to three mana.
It's as if you started with Helldozer on table, and that Helldozer had Shroud. And Pacifism, somehow. And you had 3 mana, quaranteed, 100% chance.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
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That is not the crux of the situation, though.
I want to know why you think allowing all colors to have access to an X Spirit Guide is broken.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
okay I think we need to get back on the topic here...
Okay Avatar as far as why this is broken. First off, lets think about this rationally:
White
Turn 1: Plains, Suntail Hawk, ASG, Holy Day on opponents turn.
Turn 2: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, attack for 3/5, ASG Holy Day on opponents turn.
Turn 3: Plains, Double Holy Strength on Suntail Hawk, Attack for 5/9 for a total of 8 damage on turn 3. And this is in White, a slow color. Normally White would have had to hold back mana in order to be able to holy day on the opponents turn. This, this is just sickening.
My response to that is
Swamp, Deathmark.
On that theoretical second turn, red can Shock in response to that first Holy Strength, black can Terror/Deathmark/Ghastly Demise/ any other random kill spell, white can simply Holy Day right back, and green can Utopia Vow or block it with something like Uktabi Drake or one of the nine million green things that hates on fliers. Blue can Unsummon, which is fairly annoying and gets rid of the auras.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
That reminds me. I should pick up a one-cast of Extirpate.
Even that kind of land-lock can be disrupted, providing the player plays smartly.
In other words, choose your spells wisely, people.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Honestly Dalkon why is it that with you every time something gets added you manage to go on a witch hunt because it synergizes with the faerie queen? theres ways around it i mean you can just as easily ESG then Guttural Response the boomerang (gotta wait for shadowmoor but still its an applicable example)
Assume the blue mage starts.
Turn 1: Island, Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox, Trinisphere, pass.
Turn 2: Island, Boomerang.
Turn 3: Island, Boomerang.
Turn 4: Island, Boomerang.
Turns 5-20: Reminisces, Boomerangs, More Boomerangs.
Sure, blue can fight out of this: Guide, Annul the Trinisphere. Blue seems to be about the only colour, though, as you can't cast artifact removal on the Trinisphere after it has landed. There might be some other way to get out, but they are really rare.
The question here, however, is if it is the boomerangs, the guides or the Trinisphere that causes most problems. My vote goes for the Trinisphere - The guides are strong, but not unbeatable. Boomerang is just something you'll have to deal with, and there are like, 80 different variants of it anyway. Note, also, that any other colour with 3cc "LD" can do this.
And please tell me that you are going to restrict each satchel to 4 of Spirit Guides TOTAL. I'd rather not have someone going: "1 of each spirit guide for mana."
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
WAIT... WHAT??? Witch Hunt? I don't follow? what exactly is your argument?
I merely have a problem with the first turn potential for blue to mill people for 5 cards (or the MTG the RPG equivalent) for a single mana, while at the same time I have another problem with the blue decks being able to land lock just about every deck except maybe black decks which have extirpate, and green decks which are able to get and keep their Skyshroud Rangers on the field long enough to build up a mana base. To me that is a problem.
Granted that problem is slightly mitigated by the Spirit Guides themselves, but not nearly enough.
And white, well. 2x Weathered Wayfarer should be decent enough.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
except Weathered Wayfarer does diddly squat in MTG the RPG. Unless it has been errataed?
So yeah your complaints about Boomerang and how its so broken are getting old.
Actually again this is only a factor in 1v1 battles which are mostly Arena, and in quests if you really are silly enough to get yourself in a fight with a fellow PC or NPC that uses this tactics then you really consider escaping or just apologizing (anyways WPL's wont really kill you unless you intentionally start the fight or if permanent death was part of the quest possibilities)
@ Amadi: I ask the WPL's to ban Trinisphere right now, if only so Amadi can stop posting Chrome Mox. Trinisphere examples
Boomerang then costs three in that situation...
*Bwahahahahah* Soon you will all bow to my will! *Bwahahahaha*
==========
On a more serious note, I just believe it is broken, and lowers all duels this game to the level of: "You lost the roll, do you have answer to turn 1 trinisphere?"
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Incidentally I don't believe I ever stated whether I was discussing PvP or PvE type settings. So I don't think your complaint holds any water against me. Nor do I recall claiming that it was intrinsically broken on its own. What I did claim was that a first turn boomerang was intrinsically more broken (though I think Amadi's point about the first turn Trinisphere was even more valid than the Boomerang) than say a second turn or later boomerang. However I will admit that does not necessarily mean it is unbeatable.
Turn 1: Island, Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox, Trinisphere, pass.
Turn 2: Island,
I count 3 sources of permanent mana by turn 2 in that scenerio, the Mox, and the 2 Islands.
I'm guessing that since each color will now have a Spirit Guide, they will revert back to the "can only use it if you can use the color" restriction. And it is one SG use per turn, not one of every color per turn (I'm guessing, but it's an educated one... ).
As for trinisphere it will most likely be made legendary as the aether vial, scepter and a few other normal artifacts have been.
Yeah was thinking about the wrong card. There are a few plays that some mages will be able to perform but the trinisphere definitely is a head ache if you lose the roll in the arena. But that's still just arena play and not quest play. I rather not say my green response so I still have an answer when Amadi tries to pull this.
ESG, Oxidize the Mox. Too bad it doesn't help as he has more Guides to cast boomerangs with.
Remember that the blue mage has only cast two spells so far, too, and has Commandeer, Disrupting Shoal and at least one blue spell from one to 3 mana available, just in case you tried anything fancy in response to Trinisphere.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Hey, is there anyone else on the forums going to Rice University in Houston? We could ALWAYS use more people in our Magic games. PM me if you want to play sometime
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Burn through Trinisphere?
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Then I used it in my sideboard in my Legacy Mono Black Control deck.
It doesn't bother them, really. It just takes an extra turn for you to die.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
When I play legacy slide I love dropping it at one and laughing my butt off at them attempt to get around that and lifegain.
The difference is that your MBC doesn't have recurring LD that can stop them from ever getting to three mana.
It's as if you started with Helldozer on table, and that Helldozer had Shroud. And Pacifism, somehow. And you had 3 mana, quaranteed, 100% chance.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.