But that doesn't make sense. All satchel spells are available at all times, as long as the character has the mana available and has not already cast all available castings of the spell. That's the way the satchel works, and part of the reason why this has more of an RPG flavor than a CCG flavor, especially to those players who don't feel the need to actually role-play!
Anyway, I would have to strongly disagree with the randomness factor just on general principle.
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I'd agree with restricting all the Leylines (yes, the white and red are the only ones that are better in multiples, but I figure while we're at it), and you can only start with one Leyline in play. So, if you're a GW mage, and you have Meek and Lifeforce, you need to decide which one you start with.
Even if we don't do either of those things, we need to limit a player to starting with one copy of each. That's just logical.
Oh, we welcome open discussion (usually, I do recall that I was a little harsh to something I just perceived as stupid once or twice). I'm not trying to put down your ideas, I'm just stating my position and why I disagree with you.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
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PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
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I dunno...it's potent, to be sure. But it's answerable, too. Get rid of the scepter, and that's a spell lost to them, too. I don't think it should be added to the list. Yet, anyways.
Actually, control, what's happening thus far with Isochron Scepter is that Fenris and I have discussed putting it in the same boat as AEther Vial--that is, we will be making it Legendary and probably not allowing a character to wield it in any way, shape or form.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
I agree that the Leylines should be restricted. I personally think that Leyline of the Meek should be banned. If you want +1/+1 effects, get Glorious Anthem. If you're G/W, get Gaea's Anthem to go with it.
Both of which cost less and affect everything you won. You can put out Leylines free, but, first, if you forget, they cost more than either, and second, they only affect tokens, which are more often than not, 1/1 vanillas. Admittedly, Lorwyn has since shook that up, and there are exceptions, by and large, they're weenies. Still, I do support restricting it.
among other cards I believe should get the banhammer in this game are: the beacon cycle from 5th dawn or at the very least the green and definitely the blue one, as getting those back in your hand over and over especially those two can lead to locking out of the game
also, on another note, I think if any player is in possesion of a gem that is banned after they gain possesion of it they should receive either its original worth in gold or a card of equal rarity from the same set.
To videojuegos: Are we going to change the leylines' rarity too? In the Ravnica Block set that they were printed in, their effects aren't powerful enough to make them rares unless they added the "free insertion" clause. So, if we remove that clause from the cards, we should make them uncommon.
To controlfreak1: As for the second part of your statement, I was thinking something very similar, as we shouldn't be punishing the player or the character for a rules change we enacted after they picked a reward. However, I'm not going to ask a player who picked a reward spell that we went ahead and banned to pick a new one. It is up to the player to tell the WPLs what they want in exchange, resulting in the fact that if they try to use the banned spell in the arena because they are not paying attention, then they will be disqualified.
Regarding the first part--the suggestion of what to ban: I do understand the potential problems behind Beacon of Tomorrows, as its effect is quite powerful, which is why it costs 8 mana and, I do think the blue beacon deserves more discussion, but I will put it on the list. What exactly is the problem with the Beacon of Creation, though?
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
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Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
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PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
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Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
t1 1 land 1 land-elf
t2 3 land 3 more land-elfs
t3 8 land play beacon twice 16 tokens
t4 12 land play twice more play beacon 3 times 52 tokens total
....
and that is not too broken an opening for most of the green mages we have playing, colors like white and black just can't compete against that (even with 4 wraths), and red has to be able to burn out the other player very quickly
When you say land-elf, do you mean Skyshroud Ranger or Llanowar Elves? Be clear. And, regardless of which example you use, you are mistaken in the amount of power there.
If you meant Skyshroud Ranger: activating the ability counts against spells per turn, of which a player only gets three. So, on turn 2, if you activate a ranger played on turn 1, you can only cast two more elves. Then, on your third turn, if you activate all three rangers, you cannot do anything else for the turn, meaning that it'll take just a bit longer to get out that Beacon.
If you meant Llanowar Elves: you can't get 8 mana by turn three. It's impossible. Plus, you'll only have three lands in play because you didn't use an ability to put more forests into play.
The limitations we put on spellcasting and on "put card into play" effects limit a Beacon of Creation as early as you say with as much power as you are estimating.
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
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Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
To controlfreak1: There's nothing wrong with Beacon of Creation. Even if you do get a ton of tokens with it, your opponent can just play Hideous Laughter and nerf it. Really, I don't understand why you want it gone. Think of it this way: If you fight against...
White Mage: He plays Wrath of God and nerfs it.
Blue Mage: Any counter of your choice...or Evacuation.
Black Mage: Like I said, Hideous Laughter or even Damnation.
Red Mage: Pyroclasm.
Green Mage: Probably the only one that would have a problem.
So, 4 out of 5 mages surveyed said they can handle a BoC.
White Mage: He plays Wrath of God and nerfs it.
Blue Mage: Any counter of your choice...or Evacuation.
Black Mage: Like I said, Hideous Laughter or even Damnation.
Red Mage: Pyroclasm.
But not every white mage has a Wrath-effect, not every blue mage has Evacuation, etc. The main problem with the spell is that it keeps coming back, meaning even if a red mage pyroclasms, it's a very temporary solution, as the green mage can just play it again and again and again... I think all five beacons should be banned; since we treat our library and our hand as one, these all essencially have free buyback, making them extremely potent.
Guys here is another spell to maybe think about as it is particularly strong.
temporal extortion If you can't counter this spell you basically are saying go ahead and ramp your mana to whatever you intend on doing. IT is possible that the spell is just to powerful. You might want to pay the life once but that still halves your life. It should be restricted at the very least. I mean think about it in the arena. You won't want to counter it as its quite dangerous because you go immedialy from 15 to 7 life and then if you would need to counter it again thats another 4 so you are at 3. Its very powerful especially when you can have so many shenanigans with it. If you think ban is to strong maybe restrict it?
Here is what I see.
Turn 1 land 1 drop
Turn 2 land 2x one drops or 1x terror/kill spell
Turn 3 land stuff
Turn 4 land Half your life please or give me an extra turn
Turn 4a land half your life again or extra turn
Turn 4b land same as before
Turn 4c land last time
Turn 4d land hmmm what could i do with 8 mana on a turn 4 whatever I want.
Don't even make me think about what happens with recursion and if they pay anywhere inbetween the next turn they cast it again forceing you to not pay as who wants to be at something like 10 and then 5 from 2 spells with them putting creaures down on the board to hord attack. A black green mage with it is even more rediculous.
I agree with Fallen Angel. Temporal Extortion is nasty in the wrong hands. One could argue that it balances the mana acceleration that green mages are known for, but if a green mage decides to go Golgari, then he's unstoppable. If not banned, Temporal Extortion should be restricted.
Query then, as a bit of a continuation of controlfreak1's opinion. How would those of you who advocate banning these cards handle the situation where a player character already has them?
For example, Howler, there is a red mage who is currently running Beacon of Destruction. What should he get in exchange if we ban that card?
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Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
Should be ban a card I beleive that its as easy as just saying that the player must repick a spell of the equal rarity and point value. That is that you could potentially pick something from standard in the case of beacon of distruction a rare but it would have to be equal or less in point value.
As for restricted cards if the player has a full gem they have the option of just takeing the restricted amount which counts for the full gem amount or doing something similar to how the ban replace system will.
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What?!?!? No!!!! If you restrict a spell, it should not count as a full gem of that spell because it won't count as a full gem in satchel volume calculations!
I think that if we are going to ban a card, then we ought to allow someone who already had a banned card in their satchel to get something a little extra in addition to the replacement spell because we inconvenienced him (or her). Whether that is another spell, a little bit of gold, or a little extra experience can be put up for discussion, but the point remains.
Also, if we restrict a spell that a player character currently has a full gem of, then they should get a voucher good at Frankie Peanuts' shop or Lyre's Bazaar or Warbeard's Weapon Shop for the value of the amount we took away plus an additional 25% for inconvenience's sake. It is not the player's fault that we did this, so the player shouldn't feel like we are punishing him/her for something he/she chose freely and with the understanding that it was legal.
For example, we restricted Extirpate. If, by some chance, a black mage had a full casting of Extirpate in his/her satchel when the restriction vote was tallied, then the player character should receive a voucher for an amount of gold calculated in the following manner:
(180 x .5) x 1.25=112.5
Therefore, the voucher (or direct gold supply to the character) should be worth 112 or 113 gold.
Never forget: there's always someone bigger, better and stronger than you.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God?
Quote from Me »
Stupidity cannot be tolerated. Idiots thrive on the indulgence of society's "understanding."
Quote from Fenris »
PUPPIES AND BUNNIES!!
A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
Quote from Me »
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Anyway, I would have to strongly disagree with the randomness factor just on general principle.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
Even if we don't do either of those things, we need to limit a player to starting with one copy of each. That's just logical.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
R Fast Burn
W Soldier Beatdown
UG Blue/Green Mess
WUBRG Door to Nothingness
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
Credit for banner goes to: a passer by
World of Pokemon---------------------------Michael Syne
Magic the RPG-------------------------------Forace
Community Project(Fantasy)-----------------Sammy Matthews
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The Pen and Paper Inn(Project PlanarChaos)--Valarie Liadon
also, on another note, I think if any player is in possesion of a gem that is banned after they gain possesion of it they should receive either its original worth in gold or a card of equal rarity from the same set.
To controlfreak1: As for the second part of your statement, I was thinking something very similar, as we shouldn't be punishing the player or the character for a rules change we enacted after they picked a reward. However, I'm not going to ask a player who picked a reward spell that we went ahead and banned to pick a new one. It is up to the player to tell the WPLs what they want in exchange, resulting in the fact that if they try to use the banned spell in the arena because they are not paying attention, then they will be disqualified.
Regarding the first part--the suggestion of what to ban: I do understand the potential problems behind Beacon of Tomorrows, as its effect is quite powerful, which is why it costs 8 mana and, I do think the blue beacon deserves more discussion, but I will put it on the list. What exactly is the problem with the Beacon of Creation, though?
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
t1 1 land 1 land-elf
t2 3 land 3 more land-elfs
t3 8 land play beacon twice 16 tokens
t4 12 land play twice more play beacon 3 times 52 tokens total
....
and that is not too broken an opening for most of the green mages we have playing, colors like white and black just can't compete against that (even with 4 wraths), and red has to be able to burn out the other player very quickly
If you meant Skyshroud Ranger: activating the ability counts against spells per turn, of which a player only gets three. So, on turn 2, if you activate a ranger played on turn 1, you can only cast two more elves. Then, on your third turn, if you activate all three rangers, you cannot do anything else for the turn, meaning that it'll take just a bit longer to get out that Beacon.
If you meant Llanowar Elves: you can't get 8 mana by turn three. It's impossible. Plus, you'll only have three lands in play because you didn't use an ability to put more forests into play.
The limitations we put on spellcasting and on "put card into play" effects limit a Beacon of Creation as early as you say with as much power as you are estimating.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
White Mage: He plays Wrath of God and nerfs it.
Blue Mage: Any counter of your choice...or Evacuation.
Black Mage: Like I said, Hideous Laughter or even Damnation.
Red Mage: Pyroclasm.
Green Mage: Probably the only one that would have a problem.
So, 4 out of 5 mages surveyed said they can handle a BoC.
R Fast Burn
W Soldier Beatdown
UG Blue/Green Mess
WUBRG Door to Nothingness
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
For the record:
Beacon of Immortality
Beacon of Tomorrows
Beacon of Unrest
Beacon of Destruction
Beacon of Creation
According to this study I should be deaf by now.
Banner made by: Spiderboy4 :o:o:o
It shouldn't be "dies"
It shouldn't be "is put into the graveyard from the battlefield"
It should be "is put into the graveyard from play"
temporal extortion If you can't counter this spell you basically are saying go ahead and ramp your mana to whatever you intend on doing. IT is possible that the spell is just to powerful. You might want to pay the life once but that still halves your life. It should be restricted at the very least. I mean think about it in the arena. You won't want to counter it as its quite dangerous because you go immedialy from 15 to 7 life and then if you would need to counter it again thats another 4 so you are at 3. Its very powerful especially when you can have so many shenanigans with it. If you think ban is to strong maybe restrict it?
Here is what I see.
Turn 1 land 1 drop
Turn 2 land 2x one drops or 1x terror/kill spell
Turn 3 land stuff
Turn 4 land Half your life please or give me an extra turn
Turn 4a land half your life again or extra turn
Turn 4b land same as before
Turn 4c land last time
Turn 4d land hmmm what could i do with 8 mana on a turn 4 whatever I want.
Don't even make me think about what happens with recursion and if they pay anywhere inbetween the next turn they cast it again forceing you to not pay as who wants to be at something like 10 and then 5 from 2 spells with them putting creaures down on the board to hord attack. A black green mage with it is even more rediculous.
R Fast Burn
W Soldier Beatdown
UG Blue/Green Mess
WUBRG Door to Nothingness
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
For example, Howler, there is a red mage who is currently running Beacon of Destruction. What should he get in exchange if we ban that card?
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.
As for restricted cards if the player has a full gem they have the option of just takeing the restricted amount which counts for the full gem amount or doing something similar to how the ban replace system will.
I think that if we are going to ban a card, then we ought to allow someone who already had a banned card in their satchel to get something a little extra in addition to the replacement spell because we inconvenienced him (or her). Whether that is another spell, a little bit of gold, or a little extra experience can be put up for discussion, but the point remains.
Also, if we restrict a spell that a player character currently has a full gem of, then they should get a voucher good at Frankie Peanuts' shop or Lyre's Bazaar or Warbeard's Weapon Shop for the value of the amount we took away plus an additional 25% for inconvenience's sake. It is not the player's fault that we did this, so the player shouldn't feel like we are punishing him/her for something he/she chose freely and with the understanding that it was legal.
For example, we restricted Extirpate. If, by some chance, a black mage had a full casting of Extirpate in his/her satchel when the restriction vote was tallied, then the player character should receive a voucher for an amount of gold calculated in the following manner:
(180 x .5) x 1.25=112.5
Therefore, the voucher (or direct gold supply to the character) should be worth 112 or 113 gold.
Someone once asked me why, when I talk about House Dimir, I don't put the word "the" in front of it.
At the time, I had no answer, but it just came to me.
Do we put the word "the" in front of God? A Storyteller is not a GM. A GM is God. God is one of the Storyteller's little minions.