Well, special missions or good deeds done could be a fgorm of item/money giving. Pretty much a rewards system. After reaching a certin level of training, you could begfin to recieve a salary of some kind.
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Bounties and bonuses for missions completed seem like a natural way to distribute wealth. If players perform services for someone capable of producing weapons, armor, or gear, that individual might be inclined to offer the player special gear (either at a reduced rate, or gear that isn't normally for sale.) I feel that wealth, like other forms of advancement, should be tied to a player contributing to the game to the best of his or her ability.
The way the item system works is likely tied to how much magic permeates the setting, specifically how common magical or extraordinary items are. If the varieties of sword are just "cheap sword", "nice sword", and "masterwork sword", it probably pays to set up things differently than if there are dozens of magical or extraordinary swords with various properties flying around.
In a numbers-light system, it's important, I think, to establish what effect a weapon or piece of armor has at all. From the vibes I'm getting, "you got a better sword" means "you can and should now play your character as being more effective at fighting with a sword" rather than "your attack power went up by 12".
I think that if we use some kind of monetary system, we shouldn't start out with any money. It just leads to people walking straight into the nearest shop to buy weapons, spells and armour.
Also, I think that money (and thus also items) should be hard to get. That way, people will really feel that they've achieved something, like a guy who finally got T6 together.
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It's reasonable to assume that, unlike most console and PC RPG games, people won't be wearing the same gear for everything they do. It might normally pay to wear company-issue padded leather armor, but that's no good if you're trying to prevent an assassination at a formal event and one or more of the group members needs to blend in. In many cases, a player's gear will be dictated by the nature of the mission; many missions might make the most spectacular armor available a poor choice. Simple items should be fairly easy to obtain, perhaps easy enough to obtain that they may as well be free. Anything unique, exotic, or extraordinary, I agree, should be much more difficult to obtain, and should be considered a major or minor point of character advancement, depending on the nature of the item.
Players should begin with company-issue gear or things of similar quality; perhaps each player could begin with one or two minor exotic or special items. Again, this depends on the rarity of extraordinary items.
One possibility is to lump extraordinary items, specific spells, blessings, pets and pet tricks, special martial combat techniques, and other similar things together as methods of character advancement that aren't skills or rank. These things could be given out as rewards to various characters depending on the direction the character is taking. Giving characters money to spend on these things isn't that different from giving them the things directly, so on a case by case basis whatever makes more sense can be given to the character. (Or the character can just be given cash as a reward if they don't know what sort of thing they want at the moment.) A character with a signature weapon probably doesn't want to replace it, but might be interested in a new martial combat technique. A "reward" for such a character might be, "the armsmaster has taken notice of you and has invited you to train under him," at which point the captain and the player could work to develop a new martial technique for the character.
What I sort of feel from most people, although I could be misreading this, is that currency is something that makes for a nice, standard reward, but people don't really want an economy, per say. Personally, I feel as if a world without money is kind of odd. It's pretty strange for every client to approach a mercenary company to offer to pay in a hodge-podge of items and things.
With the type of game being that you're in a squad/regiment, it should be that every group leader has and allotment of weapons and other items that he can give to other people in his group. What he gives to whom, on the other hand, is totally up to him, and if you lose your weapon, getting a new one won't be certain. Those that have good standing should be allowed to have more/better items. This encourages people to actually play the game concentrating on what it's meant to be concentrating on.
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Well, special missions or good deeds done could be a fgorm of item/money giving. Pretty much a rewards system. After reaching a certin level of training, you could begfin to recieve a salary of some kind.
This is pretty much how I saw it. You get a salary at a certain rank, and then you get a cache of items after every quest/mission/whathaveyou that are given out by the captain depending on need and ability.
Bounties and bonuses for missions completed seem like a natural way to distribute wealth. If players perform services for someone capable of producing weapons, armor, or gear, that individual might be inclined to offer the player special gear (either at a reduced rate, or gear that isn't normally for sale.) I feel that wealth, like other forms of advancement, should be tied to a player contributing to the game to the best of his or her ability.
This is a good idea, and promotes a system where the entire cohort doesn't have to do a single quest, so we have many stories going at once. And yes, wealth should tie in with contribution, not just being there. So it'd be, salary-wise, 'you get X amount of money every week you post X amount of times, with content'.
The way the item system works is likely tied to how much magic permeates the setting, specifically how common magical or extraordinary items are. If the varieties of sword are just "cheap sword", "nice sword", and "masterwork sword", it probably pays to set up things differently than if there are dozens of magical or extraordinary swords with various properties flying around.
In a numbers-light system, it's important, I think, to establish what effect a weapon or piece of armor has at all. From the vibes I'm getting, "you got a better sword" means "you can and should now play your character as being more effective at fighting with a sword" rather than "your attack power went up by 12".
I think basic swords, of the 'cheap, nice, masterwork' varieties, aren't as much 'you can fight better' as 'these are sharper, last longer, and are probably lighter'. Your fighting ability should be separate from your weapon. However, a better weapon is more damage and more durability. And magical weapons just go up the scale, adding effects and enchantments to your weapons as well as increasing strength more.
I think that if we use some kind of monetary system, we shouldn't start out with any money. It just leads to people walking straight into the nearest shop to buy weapons, spells and armour.
Also, I think that money (and thus also items) should be hard to get. That way, people will really feel that they've achieved something, like a guy who finally got T6 together.
Agreed. I feel a character should start with no money, and are given the basics (light leather armor and a sword) as they enter the cohort. Then they can gain better stuff as they work for it.
I think we should remember we're role-playing here. Money isn't always spent on armor and weapons. What about food? Shelter? Better blankets or clothes?
It's reasonable to assume that, unlike most console and PC RPG games, people won't be wearing the same gear for everything they do. It might normally pay to wear company-issue padded leather armor, but that's no good if you're trying to prevent an assassination at a formal event and one or more of the group members needs to blend in. In many cases, a player's gear will be dictated by the nature of the mission; many missions might make the most spectacular armor available a poor choice. Simple items should be fairly easy to obtain, perhaps easy enough to obtain that they may as well be free. Anything unique, exotic, or extraordinary, I agree, should be much more difficult to obtain, and should be considered a major or minor point of character advancement, depending on the nature of the item.
Players should begin with company-issue gear or things of similar quality; perhaps each player could begin with one or two minor exotic or special items. Again, this depends on the rarity of extraordinary items.
Reasonable? That's exactly how this should be. Joyd hits it on the nose again.
I already voiced my opinion on this. I don't like numbers in Colosseum RPs. I say we abandon the money, and get the basic items from "guild leaders" or something of the like, then get the rest of the items either from dropping (I don't mean rats dropping Longswords. Dropping that makes sense), from services (not quests. Trading Fresh Rat Meat, from a rat you just killed for a Steel Dagger) or from quests (though this should be mainly for magical / enchanted items)
It should work well, and not have too much numbers involved
I'll tell you the problems with this.
A.) Guild leaders have to get the items from somewhere.
B.) Since you won't constantly be on a quest, and since rewards are usually limited, you may not get what you need when you need it, making you useless for a while.
C.) This also means you don't get to choose what you get, the choice is made for you. Which means that the guild leader/captain has more control over your fighting style than you do.
D.) The only way to fix point C is to have your character choose items. This either means first come first serve (not good for those who can't be on much), or unlimited items, which conflicts with A.
Instead, you can give the characters money to buy their basic equipment and buy enchantments, and then hand out rewards as they come, giving the best of both worlds.
One possibility is to lump extraordinary items, specific spells, blessings, pets and pet tricks, special martial combat techniques, and other similar things together as methods of character advancement that aren't skills or rank. These things could be given out as rewards to various characters depending on the direction the character is taking. Giving characters money to spend on these things isn't that different from giving them the things directly, so on a case by case basis whatever makes more sense can be given to the character. (Or the character can just be given cash as a reward if they don't know what sort of thing they want at the moment.) A character with a signature weapon probably doesn't want to replace it, but might be interested in a new martial combat technique. A "reward" for such a character might be, "the armsmaster has taken notice of you and has invited you to train under him," at which point the captain and the player could work to develop a new martial technique for the character.
Agreed. Don't force stuff on characters when they don't need it, and don't deny what a character needs when they need it. However, I think it fits a little better with "Your character just gained $X, and now they can pay $Y to the armsmaster to learn a new skill" as opposed to "The armsmaster wishes to teach you something". We want to give control to the players and their characters, instead of putting the control in the WPL/Captains' hands. Not only less work for the WPL (trust me, much less work), it also makes the game more fun when you can shape your own character.
What I sort of feel from most people, although I could be misreading this, is that currency is something that makes for a nice, standard reward, but people don't really want an economy, per say. Personally, I feel as if a world without money is kind of odd. It's pretty strange for every client to approach a mercenary company to offer to pay in a hodge-podge of items and things.
I say yes on money. I think you should be able to buy certain universal spells.
I think the 'universals' should be a sword and some leather armor, or a bow and some leather armor, or something similar. Anything else needs to be bought, and needs to have a specific supply. Things aren't unlimited.
With the type of game being that you're in a squad/regiment, it should be that every group leader has and allotment of weapons and other items that he can give to other people in his group. What he gives to whom, on the other hand, is totally up to him, and if you lose your weapon, getting a new one won't be certain. Those that have good standing should be allowed to have more/better items. This encourages people to actually play the game concentrating on what it's meant to be concentrating on.
I sort of like how this is. Higher ranks comes with perks. However, the basics for a character should always be available. If your sword just got broken, you should be able to get a basic one again. If your armor is ripped to shreds, you should be able to get leather again. Super-powerful-and-expensive swords aren't just going to break two minutes after you buy them. When they do break, you should have gained enough money again to buy something to replace it. Between then, you should be able to have something basic to use in the interim.
Anything that's absolutely unique and irreplacable should be practically invulnerable to permanent breaking.
This is just my opinion, but I kind of don't want players to have to worry about finicky details with money. Money should be a means to an end; you get X money, you spend it to make your character cooler. Killing 23 bugbears on the way to kill the bugbear king and then selling 23 bugbear hats for 23 silver just makes bookkeeping. I'd rather than abilities and items ultimately be awarded effectively at at a speed propotional to the player's actual contribution and not preferentially to players that bother to bog things down by trying to trade away anything remotely valuable they come across to NPC vendors. I am fully aware that this is less "realistic" in some senses. It's very easy to ask "Why shouldn't a player who scrounges up money by doing inane things be able to afford better gear?" I would answer that it's ultimately not very good for the game. Not everyone wants to bother with MMO-style vendor-trash dumping, and they shouldn't be punished in character development for it. (On the flip side, it's probably reasonable for a character who is particularly frivolous with his money to have a harder time affording things.)
In short, if two players contribute at roughly the same rate, thier characters should get "goodies" - the aforementioned "extraordinary items, specific spells, blessings, pets and pet tricks, special martial combat techniques, and other similar things" at roughly the same rate. Money is just one way to get characters these things.
In my experience, it's less 'get item sell item' for money. What I'm talking about is money given as a reward for services instead of, or perhaps alongside of, items and other goodies.
It's not 'kill 23 bugbears and sell 23 pelts for 23 silver.' The quest would be, "Kill the bugbears in Bearbug forest for 50 gold flat rate." Not much in the way of bookkeeping.
The reason we do this is so that players have control over the evolution of their characters. If the captain hands a character a magical dagger, but the character has no experience in fighting with daggers, then the character should have the following options: Sell the dagger, trade the dagger, learn how to fight with the dagger. But without money, selling the dagger isn't possible. If no vendor or player wants it, then the character can't trade the dagger away. Which means they either keep dead weight on them, throw it away, or learn to fight with it. The captain, in this case, decided the character will fight with daggers. The captain shouldn't have that control. It should be that the player can sell that dagger for a sum of gold, then use that gold on, say, a magical bow that shoots bowling balls, since their player is actually an archer.
Money is a means to an end. We make it very simple round numbers on both ends. Always ending in 5s or 0s. You get a lump sum for completing your objective (with possible bonuses), and then you use that sum of money on whatever you happen to need. And if you get an item you don't need, you can sell it or trade it away.
Choices need to be available for the player and character. We don't want to limit their choices. Simply editing your profile to reflect that you gained 50 gold isn't hard. Nor is it to edit to reflect the 35 gold spent on a new quiver.
As for trading, you have to be able to set a value system. Who sets the value of the item you are trading? If money was involved, we'd have a good idea. A bronze sword is 50 gold, so you should be trading for something, or several somethings, worth around 50 gold. A magical bronze sword? Well, let's say between 50 gold and 100 gold, which is what a silver sword is worth. If you don't have something to set the value to, the player is just making up value. And if you have ever tried to haggle with a street vendor in any place like China or India (I did the former) where the value system isn't set, you notice that -someone- gets screwed in the end.
No, I agree with you exactly. Players should tend to receive gold as a reward, for exactly the reasons you state. What I'd hope to avoid is a system where it's "optimal" to always be trying to squeeze as much coin as possible out of the system.
There'll always be someone who wants to go on one event after another. My character Kit in Gutter World is sort of like that. But all you have to do is limit them. And give them a set ceiling of "This is how much you are paid" with no negotiation.
I'm not saying that players shouldn't be allowed to take as many actual missions as their character has time to go on, although if you want to limit them, that's fine too. I'm more concerned about players attempting to squeeze extra money out of the system by "vendor selling" random bric-a-brac they come across on the course of those missions. (I don't think that anyone is suggesting that that'd actually be a desirable thing; we just want to make sure the system doesn't make it something that characters actually try to do, which is just a matter of not attaching a monetary value to most of the things characters could theoretically haul with them home from a mission situation.)
There's actually a good system for something like that that was created in the EW. It's usually used for quests or large storylines. Minor tasks and jobs usually have set rewards.
Basically, you come up with a list of rewards. Various magical items, trinkets, weapons, what have you. Things the characters want. You attach to each of these a point value. Then give the characters X amount of points to spend, first come first serve. Then, allow them to trade points for gold at an X:1 ratio. Usually 3:1 or 4:1. Four points to one piece of gold. That way, the items are more valuable than the gold is. Then they can sell those items if they truly want to, but it's usually not worth it.
Most characters will want the items, not the gold. The gold is there for things like spells (if they're sold), training, abilities, items, pets, things of that nature. People don't often build those up. They prefer items.
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The way the item system works is likely tied to how much magic permeates the setting, specifically how common magical or extraordinary items are. If the varieties of sword are just "cheap sword", "nice sword", and "masterwork sword", it probably pays to set up things differently than if there are dozens of magical or extraordinary swords with various properties flying around.
In a numbers-light system, it's important, I think, to establish what effect a weapon or piece of armor has at all. From the vibes I'm getting, "you got a better sword" means "you can and should now play your character as being more effective at fighting with a sword" rather than "your attack power went up by 12".
Also, I think that money (and thus also items) should be hard to get. That way, people will really feel that they've achieved something, like a guy who finally got T6 together.
Players should begin with company-issue gear or things of similar quality; perhaps each player could begin with one or two minor exotic or special items. Again, this depends on the rarity of extraordinary items.
What I sort of feel from most people, although I could be misreading this, is that currency is something that makes for a nice, standard reward, but people don't really want an economy, per say. Personally, I feel as if a world without money is kind of odd. It's pretty strange for every client to approach a mercenary company to offer to pay in a hodge-podge of items and things.
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and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
This is pretty much how I saw it. You get a salary at a certain rank, and then you get a cache of items after every quest/mission/whathaveyou that are given out by the captain depending on need and ability.
This is a good idea, and promotes a system where the entire cohort doesn't have to do a single quest, so we have many stories going at once. And yes, wealth should tie in with contribution, not just being there. So it'd be, salary-wise, 'you get X amount of money every week you post X amount of times, with content'.
I think basic swords, of the 'cheap, nice, masterwork' varieties, aren't as much 'you can fight better' as 'these are sharper, last longer, and are probably lighter'. Your fighting ability should be separate from your weapon. However, a better weapon is more damage and more durability. And magical weapons just go up the scale, adding effects and enchantments to your weapons as well as increasing strength more.
Agreed. I feel a character should start with no money, and are given the basics (light leather armor and a sword) as they enter the cohort. Then they can gain better stuff as they work for it.
I think we should remember we're role-playing here. Money isn't always spent on armor and weapons. What about food? Shelter? Better blankets or clothes?
Reasonable? That's exactly how this should be. Joyd hits it on the nose again.
I'll tell you the problems with this.
A.) Guild leaders have to get the items from somewhere.
B.) Since you won't constantly be on a quest, and since rewards are usually limited, you may not get what you need when you need it, making you useless for a while.
C.) This also means you don't get to choose what you get, the choice is made for you. Which means that the guild leader/captain has more control over your fighting style than you do.
D.) The only way to fix point C is to have your character choose items. This either means first come first serve (not good for those who can't be on much), or unlimited items, which conflicts with A.
Instead, you can give the characters money to buy their basic equipment and buy enchantments, and then hand out rewards as they come, giving the best of both worlds.
Exactly, in every way.
Agreed. Don't force stuff on characters when they don't need it, and don't deny what a character needs when they need it. However, I think it fits a little better with "Your character just gained $X, and now they can pay $Y to the armsmaster to learn a new skill" as opposed to "The armsmaster wishes to teach you something". We want to give control to the players and their characters, instead of putting the control in the WPL/Captains' hands. Not only less work for the WPL (trust me, much less work), it also makes the game more fun when you can shape your own character.
Agreed.
I think the 'universals' should be a sword and some leather armor, or a bow and some leather armor, or something similar. Anything else needs to be bought, and needs to have a specific supply. Things aren't unlimited.
I sort of like how this is. Higher ranks comes with perks. However, the basics for a character should always be available. If your sword just got broken, you should be able to get a basic one again. If your armor is ripped to shreds, you should be able to get leather again. Super-powerful-and-expensive swords aren't just going to break two minutes after you buy them. When they do break, you should have gained enough money again to buy something to replace it. Between then, you should be able to have something basic to use in the interim.
Anything that's absolutely unique and irreplacable should be practically invulnerable to permanent breaking.
My helpdesk should you need me.
In short, if two players contribute at roughly the same rate, thier characters should get "goodies" - the aforementioned "extraordinary items, specific spells, blessings, pets and pet tricks, special martial combat techniques, and other similar things" at roughly the same rate. Money is just one way to get characters these things.
It's not 'kill 23 bugbears and sell 23 pelts for 23 silver.' The quest would be, "Kill the bugbears in Bearbug forest for 50 gold flat rate." Not much in the way of bookkeeping.
The reason we do this is so that players have control over the evolution of their characters. If the captain hands a character a magical dagger, but the character has no experience in fighting with daggers, then the character should have the following options: Sell the dagger, trade the dagger, learn how to fight with the dagger. But without money, selling the dagger isn't possible. If no vendor or player wants it, then the character can't trade the dagger away. Which means they either keep dead weight on them, throw it away, or learn to fight with it. The captain, in this case, decided the character will fight with daggers. The captain shouldn't have that control. It should be that the player can sell that dagger for a sum of gold, then use that gold on, say, a magical bow that shoots bowling balls, since their player is actually an archer.
Money is a means to an end. We make it very simple round numbers on both ends. Always ending in 5s or 0s. You get a lump sum for completing your objective (with possible bonuses), and then you use that sum of money on whatever you happen to need. And if you get an item you don't need, you can sell it or trade it away.
Choices need to be available for the player and character. We don't want to limit their choices. Simply editing your profile to reflect that you gained 50 gold isn't hard. Nor is it to edit to reflect the 35 gold spent on a new quiver.
As for trading, you have to be able to set a value system. Who sets the value of the item you are trading? If money was involved, we'd have a good idea. A bronze sword is 50 gold, so you should be trading for something, or several somethings, worth around 50 gold. A magical bronze sword? Well, let's say between 50 gold and 100 gold, which is what a silver sword is worth. If you don't have something to set the value to, the player is just making up value. And if you have ever tried to haggle with a street vendor in any place like China or India (I did the former) where the value system isn't set, you notice that -someone- gets screwed in the end.
My helpdesk should you need me.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Basically, you come up with a list of rewards. Various magical items, trinkets, weapons, what have you. Things the characters want. You attach to each of these a point value. Then give the characters X amount of points to spend, first come first serve. Then, allow them to trade points for gold at an X:1 ratio. Usually 3:1 or 4:1. Four points to one piece of gold. That way, the items are more valuable than the gold is. Then they can sell those items if they truly want to, but it's usually not worth it.
Most characters will want the items, not the gold. The gold is there for things like spells (if they're sold), training, abilities, items, pets, things of that nature. People don't often build those up. They prefer items.
My helpdesk should you need me.