I have heard that the store he worked/played at is also under investigation for knowingly selling stolen property.
The store they supply cards for was confiscated and left for investigation of the store, i go there frequently and i got the run down on it.
One of the workers brothers was a suspect in the robbings, and explains that the owner of said cards was taken away to leave the store itself with the cards it has gotten and things like that.
Im really pulling for the store itself and hope that they make it through.
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The fellas in question should be dealt with as harshly as possible by all measures of the law allowed. No excuse for that kind of behavior.
Amen. This kind of stuff needs to be dealt with so that it stops. My local store was having problems with theft right around when I started playing. Thankfully the owner took action and stopped it. He threw the guys out and told them never to come back.
I am not sure who said it before, but this seems pretty ridiculous for the DCI to go "Your going to get banned for life, but were not going to call you a thief." Everybody who looks at the four and sees the reason being "gross misconduct" knows that this wasn't some argument with the judge or even an USC major. DCI has to keep matters private and pretends that we don't know, nudge nudge, wink wink.
I am all for putting their picture of the DCI. Especially considering that there is a very good chance they will not remain in AZ after this is all said and done.
Calling them thieves before they even go to trial would technically be slander, I think. It's better this way than banning them for alleged theft imo. Judicial system > DCI.
Or maybe they merely have a preset number of offenses (just like the floor rules) and theft just falls under gross misconduct. It's not like it's the DCI's job to provide us with information.
I don't know if putting up pictures is legal pre- or post-conviction but I tend to be for it as well. Not so in the case of some fifteen year old kid who sees a deserted deck and can't resist; but this case is neither local nor (relatively) minor.
In any case, it hardly benefits Wizards or the DCI if there are thieves out there; it doesn't benefit if we don't know; but they may still decide to keep it under wraps officially so players and concerned parents don't get paranoid or for legal reasons. They know their community, they know there's no way large-scale theft at a GP won't trickle down to the internets. Just a thought, though.
What, slander is spoken while libel is, from wikipedia, "harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast"
Or maybe they merely have a preset number of offenses (just like the floor rules) and theft just falls under gross misconduct. It's not like it's the DCI's job to provide us with information.
I would disagree in this case and say it is the DCI's job to let us know who the thieves are. Especially when only 1 is being put to trial at this point, and 3 of the "CHicago 4" are still out there.
Well the way I look at it, if you're a TO and your really afraid of these guys coming around you should just ask to see a picture ID and a DCI card. Since they're banned they're numbers would come up as so and I think they'll be hard pressed to every get a new DCI card with their actual names on it. Sure they could get a DCI card with another name, but then that's not gonna match their ID.
And if you see some guys with magic cards, watching people play magic, but they don't have DCI numbers, well that's what I call a red flag.
Seriously, how well would you remember a photo anyway, the names alone should be enough identify them.
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There seems to be quite a few sociopaths in this thread talking about how much they'd love to injure the (alleged) thieves or even kill them.
Apparently property is worth more to some of you than a human's life.
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SLIVER LEGION?!?!?
An open challenge to all salvation posters: Come play me at fnm at Toys From the Attic in Somersworth New Hampshire, the name is Chris Laskey and if you dare face the kithkin/red deck wins onslaught.
I look at it this way: a thief, by attempting to steal from me, has decided that my possessions are worth more than his life. Who am I to argue?
But even more, my sense of "I'm not a victim" is worth more than the life of someone who seeks to make me his victim.
This is probably the single most disgusting post i've ever read. Your attempts at rationalizing your sociopathic thought is hilarious. Possessions can be replaced a human life cannot.
SLIVER LEGION?!?!?
An open challenge to all salvation posters: Come play me at fnm at Toys From the Attic in Somersworth New Hampshire, the name is Chris Laskey and if you dare face the kithkin/red deck wins onslaught.
Your attempts at rationalizing your sociopathic thought is hilarious. Possessions can be replaced a human life cannot.
Frankly, the thief who seeks to make people his victims should have considered that before deciding to steal from people. There are quite a few people who will not let themselves be victims.
You don't like this mentality, there is something you can do. Don't steal. Tell your friends to not steal. Tell your family to not steal. Come to think of it, tell your enemies to not steal.
Let me be clear; when I go to Grand Prix: Tacoma, I'm not going to shoot someone who is stealing cards; the combination of too many people in a confined space and I don't own a gun makes it a bad option. But I got no qualms about using force to detain the person until the police arrive, and if he wants to take a swing, then well, I do know how and where to inflict pain.
Now, as for the topic, I understand WotC not wanting to say, "Banned for stealing" on their website. Freedom of the press only protects what you can prove is true, and unless the 4 are convicted, if it's said that they were stealing, all they have to do is say, "Prove I stole it, because the law couldn't," and they just won the lawsuit jackpot for libel.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
As for being a sociopath, I think not. If your brave enough to steal from me and you don`t get caught.....hurray for you ....my bad for being stupid enough to put myself in a bad enough position to let you do it.
But if you get caught by me, I consider it a teachable moment. If I did nothing but turn you over to the authorities and they just slapped your wrist and said"bad boy....don`t do it again"....what did you learn? Nothing but, "Hey I can do it better next time and not get caught", which from some other posts here is probably what they did. They got better at it.
If you get your ass whipped very badly by me for stealing my stuff....what did you learn?.....Holy ****! That wasnt worth it at all. Its quite painful in fact. Let me not do it again. Lesson learned. Then you go to the authorities. Maybe I go with you. But either way you don`t ever....ever steal MY stuff again.
So I'm guessing you didn't have time to read my whole post huh?:rolleyes:
As I mentioned above, I figure they will try to get a new DCI card with a fake name, but I doubt they will pay the scratch to make a fake Drivers License. As I said, check the card against the ID. It's pretty simple.
And as I was saying, unless your gonna post their picture behind the counter, your not gonna remember their face from a pic you see here anyway. Plus they could just grow some facial hair and change their looks.
Another reason why they probably don't want to make too much information about these guys public yet is that they are awaiting trial and they don't want someone from the internet tracking these guys down and beating them up just yet. Do that and the judge might have sympathy and go easy on them.
I mean I guess wizards could have implanted RFID chips in them while they were in judge custody and then Gleemax could track their whereabouts and update it on twitter.
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I mean I guess wizards could have implanted RFID chips in them while they were in judge custody and then Gleemax could track their whereabouts and update it on twitter.
This is a little bit of genius. Well played!
No need for vigilante mobs going after these guys. I'm sure the law will come down hard on them.
I'm a fairly new player, and I've never been to a big tournament before. This has enlightened me quite a bit. I had no idea that stealing could be as prevalent as cards being stolen out of a deck while talking to judges!
I'll make sure to keep my deck on me, or in sight, at all times. Also, if I do carry a bag (which I rarely do), I'll have it cinched on my body so it can't be removed and I'll see if anyone tries to open it if they are close.
Also, even though it's a bit silly, I think I might attach a sign to my chair saying "Please remain at least 1 foot away from me at all times", perhaps with some more insight on why I'd do it.
Also, why not ask your opponent to watch your back, and you watch his/her back? It may draw your attention away from the game a bit, but I can't imagine anything worse than getting your stuff stolen during an event the should be fun.
Sorry Moderator for getting sort of off topic. If you ask me the Justice System of this country,although it works quite well in some areas, doesnt,imho, do enough. Ive heard alot of stories and know some ex-cons, who, after spending a few years in a vacation resort, come out to do the same things they went in there for in the first place.
Thats why the vigilante in me sometimes rears its ugly head.
Now, on topic, If the DCI and Wizards really want to make an example of the "assumed guilty" parties, they would post names,pictures and any pertinent information about the "assumed guilty" parties. That way the officials and store managers,etc.etc....can know who they are and take appropriate steps to get rid of them before they have an oppurtunity to practice their poison.
Its almost as if Ive heard this before. Sounds like Congress wanting to know the names of AGI officials who received bonuses, and they end up taxing the pants off of them to get their mistake back. Sorry, off topic again.
Does this sort of thing happen alot at other places. Big name events? Ive only ever heard of it locally, and until this was posted I had no idea that it was that bad, especially at a big event.
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"These aren`t the Droids your looking for......Move along."
This just makes me feel extremely lucky. I left a completely foiled Extended Doran Rock deck away from me for about three minutes only to have a good samaritan return it to me as I ran about panicking. He easily could have taken it and walked out of the tournament, but he knew me as the 'foil Doran' kid and found me ASAP.
It amazes me how much better one person can be than another.
This just makes me feel extremely lucky. I left a completely foiled Extended Doran Rock deck away from me for about three minutes only to have a good samaritan return it to me as I ran about panicking. He easily could have taken it and walked out of the tournament, but he knew me as the 'foil Doran' kid and found me ASAP.
It amazes me how much better one person can be than another.
wow thats awesome dude, you are a lucky individual. see, good always triumphs! haha
lol I don't see much of a differnece in a lifetime ban and being banned until 2055.
I guess its for (can't think of the word) purposes.
David Cox had his ban for a lifetime, but it later was changed to 50 years. While I doubt these guys will have the length of the ban changed, I hope they get prison time. Not jail time, I said prison time.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
As for asking your opponent to watch your stuff, that's tantamount to asking him to pay less attention to the match and shifts some of the blame on him should something be stolen, regardless of your intentions.
At least that's what I think. At a GP, you will play plenty of people you'll never meet again, but you probably don't want to alienate local players you'll see relatively often. (A better approach would maybe be to tell people to not look over your shoulder because it makes you nervous.)
If you have a flat trade binder, you can use it as part of the playing field. If you have two flat binders, you can use it as the entire playing field. That way, a thief would have to physically penetrate the area you're paying most attention to.
I didn't mean to try and shift the blame to someone else. I meant if you're playing and you see someone shifty behind your opponent, give them a heads-up so that they know to be a little more careful.
One thought is maybe we need a rule stating a minimum distance from players at upper level events?
To an extent, that's already true with events like U.S. Nationals and Pro Tours. Only competitors, event staff, and press are allowed on the floor of those events. Anyone else has to be outside the designated play area.
Events like Grand Prixes, on the other hand, are meant to be public and open. Because the decision is that WotC wants them to be accessible to people to see. Plus, from a logistical standpoint, it's difficult to designate and enforce a play area only open to competitors when you have 500 or more players.
Not saying that what you want isn't a good idea, it just may be one that may not be easy to pull off when faced with other concerns.
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Did I mention I also hate puppies? Did I have to?
My comments were not directed at folks who take sufficient precautions.
They were directed at those who do not. There are some of those out there too, ok?
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The store they supply cards for was confiscated and left for investigation of the store, i go there frequently and i got the run down on it.
One of the workers brothers was a suspect in the robbings, and explains that the owner of said cards was taken away to leave the store itself with the cards it has gotten and things like that.
Im really pulling for the store itself and hope that they make it through.
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Amen. This kind of stuff needs to be dealt with so that it stops. My local store was having problems with theft right around when I started playing. Thankfully the owner took action and stopped it. He threw the guys out and told them never to come back.
I am all for putting their picture of the DCI. Especially considering that there is a very good chance they will not remain in AZ after this is all said and done.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What, slander is spoken while libel is, from wikipedia, "harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast"
Actually why doesn't everybody just take a look at the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander#Slander_and_libel
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I would disagree in this case and say it is the DCI's job to let us know who the thieves are. Especially when only 1 is being put to trial at this point, and 3 of the "CHicago 4" are still out there.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And if you see some guys with magic cards, watching people play magic, but they don't have DCI numbers, well that's what I call a red flag.
Seriously, how well would you remember a photo anyway, the names alone should be enough identify them.
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Apparently property is worth more to some of you than a human's life.
An open challenge to all salvation posters: Come play me at fnm at Toys From the Attic in Somersworth New Hampshire, the name is Chris Laskey and if you dare face the kithkin/red deck wins onslaught.
I look at it this way: a thief, by attempting to steal from me, has decided that my possessions are worth more than his life. Who am I to argue?
But even more, my sense of "I'm not a victim" is worth more than the life of someone who seeks to make me his victim.
This is probably the single most disgusting post i've ever read. Your attempts at rationalizing your sociopathic thought is hilarious. Possessions can be replaced a human life cannot.
Flame infraction -Rax
An open challenge to all salvation posters: Come play me at fnm at Toys From the Attic in Somersworth New Hampshire, the name is Chris Laskey and if you dare face the kithkin/red deck wins onslaught.
Sure it can. There are six BILLION of them already, and more every day.
Clearly you don't read many posts. Probably not even many of mine.
Frankly, the thief who seeks to make people his victims should have considered that before deciding to steal from people. There are quite a few people who will not let themselves be victims.
You don't like this mentality, there is something you can do. Don't steal. Tell your friends to not steal. Tell your family to not steal. Come to think of it, tell your enemies to not steal.
Let me be clear; when I go to Grand Prix: Tacoma, I'm not going to shoot someone who is stealing cards; the combination of too many people in a confined space and I don't own a gun makes it a bad option. But I got no qualms about using force to detain the person until the police arrive, and if he wants to take a swing, then well, I do know how and where to inflict pain.
Now, as for the topic, I understand WotC not wanting to say, "Banned for stealing" on their website. Freedom of the press only protects what you can prove is true, and unless the 4 are convicted, if it's said that they were stealing, all they have to do is say, "Prove I stole it, because the law couldn't," and they just won the lawsuit jackpot for libel.
Still a bit hard for them to do anything in Arizona where everyone knows them. Outside of Arizona... we'll see what happens.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
But if you get caught by me, I consider it a teachable moment. If I did nothing but turn you over to the authorities and they just slapped your wrist and said"bad boy....don`t do it again"....what did you learn? Nothing but, "Hey I can do it better next time and not get caught", which from some other posts here is probably what they did. They got better at it.
If you get your ass whipped very badly by me for stealing my stuff....what did you learn?.....Holy ****! That wasnt worth it at all. Its quite painful in fact. Let me not do it again. Lesson learned. Then you go to the authorities. Maybe I go with you. But either way you don`t ever....ever steal MY stuff again.
So I'm guessing you didn't have time to read my whole post huh?:rolleyes:
As I mentioned above, I figure they will try to get a new DCI card with a fake name, but I doubt they will pay the scratch to make a fake Drivers License. As I said, check the card against the ID. It's pretty simple.
And as I was saying, unless your gonna post their picture behind the counter, your not gonna remember their face from a pic you see here anyway. Plus they could just grow some facial hair and change their looks.
Another reason why they probably don't want to make too much information about these guys public yet is that they are awaiting trial and they don't want someone from the internet tracking these guys down and beating them up just yet. Do that and the judge might have sympathy and go easy on them.
I mean I guess wizards could have implanted RFID chips in them while they were in judge custody and then Gleemax could track their whereabouts and update it on twitter.
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This is a little bit of genius. Well played!
No need for vigilante mobs going after these guys. I'm sure the law will come down hard on them.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
The thread is not about crime and punishment in general.
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I'll make sure to keep my deck on me, or in sight, at all times. Also, if I do carry a bag (which I rarely do), I'll have it cinched on my body so it can't be removed and I'll see if anyone tries to open it if they are close.
Also, even though it's a bit silly, I think I might attach a sign to my chair saying "Please remain at least 1 foot away from me at all times", perhaps with some more insight on why I'd do it.
Also, why not ask your opponent to watch your back, and you watch his/her back? It may draw your attention away from the game a bit, but I can't imagine anything worse than getting your stuff stolen during an event the should be fun.
Thanks for the insight!
Thats why the vigilante in me sometimes rears its ugly head.
Now, on topic, If the DCI and Wizards really want to make an example of the "assumed guilty" parties, they would post names,pictures and any pertinent information about the "assumed guilty" parties. That way the officials and store managers,etc.etc....can know who they are and take appropriate steps to get rid of them before they have an oppurtunity to practice their poison.
Its almost as if Ive heard this before. Sounds like Congress wanting to know the names of AGI officials who received bonuses, and they end up taxing the pants off of them to get their mistake back. Sorry, off topic again.
Does this sort of thing happen alot at other places. Big name events? Ive only ever heard of it locally, and until this was posted I had no idea that it was that bad, especially at a big event.
It amazes me how much better one person can be than another.
wow thats awesome dude, you are a lucky individual. see, good always triumphs! haha
David Cox had his ban for a lifetime, but it later was changed to 50 years. While I doubt these guys will have the length of the ban changed, I hope they get prison time. Not jail time, I said prison time.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
I didn't mean to try and shift the blame to someone else. I meant if you're playing and you see someone shifty behind your opponent, give them a heads-up so that they know to be a little more careful.
Also, thanks for the flat binder tip.
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
To an extent, that's already true with events like U.S. Nationals and Pro Tours. Only competitors, event staff, and press are allowed on the floor of those events. Anyone else has to be outside the designated play area.
Events like Grand Prixes, on the other hand, are meant to be public and open. Because the decision is that WotC wants them to be accessible to people to see. Plus, from a logistical standpoint, it's difficult to designate and enforce a play area only open to competitors when you have 500 or more players.
Not saying that what you want isn't a good idea, it just may be one that may not be easy to pull off when faced with other concerns.