At that PR I mentioned, the police officers tried to talk the vendor out of pressing charges and looked oddly at him when he said it was Grand theft.
Typical. But I heard there was, like iPods and other electronics in their stolen goods stash too, and that will probably get the authorities' interest. I'm guessing that their reaction was from their belief the guy had 'merely' stolen a bunch of cards...
yea the problem with this is that you dont need a DCI card to go to a GP/PT to just watch or steal in their case...banning them doesn't solve the problem...
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
yea the problem with this is that you dont need a DCI card to go to a GP/PT to just watch or steal in their case...banning them doesn't solve the problem...
Banning them wasn't the solution though...they were charged accordingly for their crimes.
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I haven't been to any high-level events, but whenever I draft locally I put my bag on the floor directly in front of my feet and then wrap the shoulder strap of the bag around my ankle. If I am seated at the end of the table I will actually freeze the match in progress if someone kneels down or bends over or near my bag. Once someone stopped to tie their shoe in that area, and I paused the match and watched them tie their shoe. My decks are some of my most cherished possessions, and I watch them like a hawk.
Now, that said, I'm not the biggest fan of all property rights. Corporate property especially. Some major international corporations (notably NOT Wizards, IMO) are only operating to make a profit for shareholders at the expense of the environment and our general quality of life, and deserve to have their property vandalized as a part of a larger political statement. Even some individuals own such large and disproportionate amounts of real estate that squatting on their property or forcibly redistributing some of their wealth robin-hood style would be the morally right and fair thing to do (outside capitalist preconceptions of fairness).
But this is a game, not shelter or food, and the gamers targeted by these theives are most probably not the wealthiest or greediest of individuals. If the theives at these events were stealing to feed or shelter their families that would be understandable at least (though still not morally justified IMO due to their choice of targets for theivery), but I highly doubt it, and more suspect greed and opportunism as their primary influences.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you are going to steal, steal morally and righteously (for example- you could hold up a bank known to give massive loans to millitary weapons contractors). Dont steal because you can- steal because you must, because sometimes there is a moral imperitive to steal.
In other words, these theives should have watched more disney movies. To quote my favorite...
"It seems to me, that in the rare occasion where the right course is committing an act of piracy, then an act of piracy is the right course!"
I haven't been to any high-level events, but whenever I draft locally I put my bag on the floor directly in front of my feet and then wrap the shoulder strap of the bag around my ankle. If I am seated at the end of the table I will actually freeze the match in progress if someone kneels down or bends over or near my bag. Once someone stopped to tie their shoe in that area, and I paused the match and watched them tie their shoe. My decks are some of my most cherished possessions, and I watch them like a hawk.
Now, that said, I'm not the biggest fan of all property rights. Corporate property especially. Some major international corporations (notably NOT Wizards, IMO) are only operating to make a profit for shareholders at the expense of the environment and our general quality of life, and deserve to have their property vandalized as a part of a larger political statement. Even some individuals own such large and disproportionate amounts of real estate that squatting on their property or forcibly redistributing some of their wealth robin-hood style would be the morally right and fair thing to do (outside capitalist preconceptions of fairness).
But this is a game, not shelter or food, and the gamers targeted by these theives are most probably not the wealthiest or greediest of individuals. If the theives at these events were stealing to feed or shelter their families that would be understandable at least (though still not morally justified IMO due to their choice of targets for theivery), but I highly doubt it, and more suspect greed and opportunism as their primary influences.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you are going to steal, steal morally and righteously (for example- you could hold up a bank known to give massive loans to millitary weapons contractors). Dont steal because you can- steal because you must, because sometimes there is a moral imperitive to steal.
In other words, these theives should have watched more disney movies. To quote my favorite...
"It seems to me, that in the rare occasion where the right course is committing an act of piracy, then an act of piracy is the right course!"
rofl. seriously.
Sorry, but I just can't take internet revolutionaries seriously. I would love to see you and your friends try something like what the Weathermen or Baader-Meinhoff did in the 60's (and the Weathermen never got caught either.)
Puh-leaze.
Stealing is stealing. I can see a lesser sentence being foisted if the proceeds of the theft were paying for essentials, but really, the ends don't justify the means. If a bank is making big loans to giant military contractors, why not vote for politicians that will decrease military spending, if that is what you wish? If you feel no politicians represent your interests, why don't YOU run for office? Why not protest or petition for redress, legally? The wheels of democracy turn slowly, but they do turn.
As per the thieves, I hope they're beaten senseless with over-sized Mag-Lights. I too, have had stuff stolen from me (most notably, a cherished Thoughtseize), and the organized nature of the crime is most disturbing. For whatever reason, TCG's just to attract these sort of people: mean-spirited, nasty, stab-you-in-the-back cheats and thieves. A clear message needs to be sent.
i don't understand why the police wouldn't call this Grand Larceny. after all 90% of legacy decks have some rather expensive cards including but not limited to parts of the Power 9. it's grand Larceny, mainly because the product stolen is worth in Goods up to $2000 or more half the time. and they shouldn't get some trivial Misdemeanor for it. Grand Larceny in any other means is a felony conviction. these bastards deserve to be felons.
Not to mention the hotel room the Judges and police searched contained Ipods, Laptops. Cellphones. ect. Probably Even Credit Cards and things. I've known people who leave their Wallets in their play bags. and that's possible Identity Theft.
I hope that WotC honestly pulls their own lawyers into this (highly doubtful, but one can hope) and charge these ****ers with Grand Larceny, and attempted Identity Theft. these people deserve it
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i don't understand why the police wouldn't call this Grand Larceny. after all 90% of legacy decks have some rather expensive cards including but not limited to parts of the Power 9. it's grand Larceny, mainly because the product stolen is worth in Goods up to $2000 or more half the time. and they shouldn't get some trivial Misdemeanor for it. Grand Larceny in any other means is a felony conviction. these bastards deserve to be felons.
Not to mention the hotel room the Judges and police searched contained Ipods, Laptops. Cellphones. ect. Probably Even Credit Cards and things. I've known people who leave their Wallets in their play bags. and that's possible Identity Theft.
I hope that WotC honestly pulls their own lawyers into this (highly doubtful, but one can hope) and charge these ****ers with Grand Larceny, and attempted Identity Theft. these people deserve it
Because CCG cards haven't been recognized liek comic books and baseball cards have yet.
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i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
i don't understand why the police wouldn't call this Grand Larceny. after all 90% of legacy decks have some rather expensive cards including but not limited to parts of the Power 9. it's grand Larceny, mainly because the product stolen is worth in Goods up to $2000 or more half the time.
All of the power nine are banned in Legacy. Most legacy decks are in the $500 range, and only if a deck was fully pimped with beta duals and all japanese foils could it approach $2000.
You might be thinking of vintage, where its commonplace to have all of the power nine in a single deck, as well as other $100+ cards, but this isn't really the case with legacy.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
You might be thinking of vintage, where its commonplace to have all of the power nine in a single deck, as well as other $100+ cards, but this isn't really the case with legacy.
iPods, cell phones, all the other tech trash gamers keep in their bags - this wasn't just cards. Throw the book at these bottom-feeders.
Wikipedia says its grand theft usually when the item stolen is worth over $400.
It doesn't seem too unreasonable to think a pile of ipods, bags, and MTG cards can add up to well over that amount.
now if we can only do something about people who don't take showers and *******s at these events
I agree with that 110% with that, but it won't happen for the same reason they won't make "weight" laws: The laws would be too vague and the judgement of the law is in the eye of the beholder. But seriously, just practice holding your breath so that you can't last a couple of minutes without walking out for fresh air...
I got my collection aside from my decks stolen at Saviors of Kamigawa prerelease, and quit magic soon after (just picked it up again at Shards). And I had the bag between my legs too. So it's nice to see them buckling down on something that has been a big problem for way longer than they care to admit.
There are stupid people out there asking to have their stuff stolen though. At one big event I went to, I saw a binder on a completely empty table, went over and opened up the binder...front page had 3 Moxes, a Black Lotus and some other old valuable stuff. Whoever owned that binder must have been REALLY out of it to leave that there, and for all intents should have lost that stuff. Lucky for him, I was the one that found it, and I brought it to the judge table. The owner came up to me about 15 minutes later with a judge and thanked me greatly.
Could these guys also have been operating in Memphis during worlds. My friend still has had no leads on the bag he had stolen. Thankfully he is still playing.
My worst story of thievery was back when I was still playing YGO, a new freind stole my $500+ deck that I'd been working on for the better part of two years. But I couldn't do anything because his grandmother was the supervisor, and his parents just got divorced. Having gone through that myself I couldn't bring myself to turn him in.
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I was playing at the other end of the room when this all happened. Couldn't really see anything, only hear "Judge! Judge! Judge!"
Apparently these guys are rumored to be linked to the same group that went through GP: Denver stealing stuff. Who knows how many other thefts they have committed.
Being an AZ player, I know all of these guys. And they all deserved what they got. Especially Esposito, that guy is one the scummiest douches that you'd ever meet. He's the one that is 'pending trial', because he's the ringleader. He's been at this for years, it just took the DCI a ridiculously long time to get around to acting on it.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Perhaps what will be most frustrating of all of this is that the punishment rehabilitation will end at some point and, according to statistical evidence, these men will repeat what they did (either in the very same way or with somethese else in a similar manner).
I've been burned by theives before, but I love to trade so I choose not to leave everything else at home when I go to play. Perhaps the best advice against theives comes from this very site:
The Carabiner (thanks to Lesurgo)
A more unusual tactic but a most effective one. Attach a carabiner to any bag or case you might bring along with you, connecting it to a belt loop on your pants. That way there is no chance of your stuff getting swiped and equally no chance of you forgetting it!
I sometimes use bicycle brake wire to form an extension so I can comfortably put my stuff down. On casual night there are a lot of decent guys on lookout (we all take care of each other; and I know I don't have the most expensive stuff anyway) but I don't trust FNMs.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
It is very fashionable in our society to "blame the victim" (a hold-out in my opinion of our primate psychology). But thieves and crooks are very cunning and they rely somewhat on shifting guilt to their victims. I had two cards stolen out of my binder during a trade by the person I was trading with.
They are brazen crooks. They are the guilty ones. Yes, take all the reasonable precautions you can. (I was far more sensitized to my exposure when my opp. got his stuff stolen during our match.) But, ultimately it's the crooks who should exhibit change of behavior, not the victims.
They are brazen crooks. They are the guilty ones. Yes, take all the reasonable precautions you can. (I was far more sensitized to my exposure when my opp. got his stuff stolen during our match.) But, ultimately it's the crooks who should exhibit change of behavior, not the victims.
J
No one is putting that in doubt. But alot of players need to recognize that big time events aren't the same as your local FNM. At my local shop I never fail to find several abandoned backpacks, binders out on tables(some are even open!), and deckboxes or simply someone's deck out on the table while their owner is playing video games or out getting food. Many of the players there go to events like GPs and with the careless attitude they display at home I wasn't at all shocked to hear that they'd been stolen from. Being aware of your environment is serious business because your very life may depend on it. This carelessness cannot be easily dismissed because many Magic players are adults and have supposedly put away childish things.
No one is putting that in doubt. But alot of players need to recognize that big time events aren't the same as your local FNM. At my local shop I never fail to find several abandoned backpacks, binders out on tables(some are even open!), and deckboxes or simply someone's deck out on the table while their owner is playing video games or out getting food. Many of the players there go to events like GPs and with the careless attitude they display at home I wasn't at all shocked to hear that they'd been stolen from. Being aware of your environment is serious business because your very life may depend on it. This carelessness cannot be easily dismissed because many Magic players are adults and have supposedly put away childish things.
Nice combo: a poll of one with a touch of religion.
In all seriousness, consider very serious crimes like rape. Because a women or man dresses in a skimpy, revealing, or "inviting" manner doesn't warrant, excuse, or permit acceptance of rape and sexual abuse. A problematic issue in most US cities are the bicycles are stolen off of front porches everywhere. Could the owner keep the bicycle inside (you know, next to the dinner table in the tiny duplex)? Sure. Should they need to? Most of us would agree no, they should be able to store their bike outside like one would expect.
Can individuals do more to prevent criminal activity from impacting their lives? Absolutely. Is it their fault that it happened to them? Rarely. Outside of instigation or knowledge that something would be unsafe, criminals are choosing to engage in behavior prohibited by law. It isn't a matter or "right or wrong" or even "moral or immoral" (though such considerations can be useful and powerful), it's simply that an individual is choosing convenience and ease over work. Taking what somebody else earned is as old as life. Only through the inhuman lens of "survival of the fittest" or "those who are stronger take from the weaker" would the victim be at fault for their experience at the hands of a criminal.
Of course, take what I argue with a grain of salt. But don't hit me up to help you out in getting your cards back in order in time for a tournament if you won't sympathize with those who have been wronged.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
(puts face in hands and weeps)
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When I sit down, I put my backpack under me, with it looped around my leg so i almost trip everytime I get up.
How could they possibly do this.. I'd like to see it in action lol.
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Typical. But I heard there was, like iPods and other electronics in their stolen goods stash too, and that will probably get the authorities' interest. I'm guessing that their reaction was from their belief the guy had 'merely' stolen a bunch of cards...
Netdecking is Rightdecking
My latest data-driven Magic the Gathering strategy article
(TLDR: Analysis of the Valakut matchups. UB rising in the rankings. Aggro correspondingly taking a dive.)
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Banning them wasn't the solution though...they were charged accordingly for their crimes.
Twitter
Now, that said, I'm not the biggest fan of all property rights. Corporate property especially. Some major international corporations (notably NOT Wizards, IMO) are only operating to make a profit for shareholders at the expense of the environment and our general quality of life, and deserve to have their property vandalized as a part of a larger political statement. Even some individuals own such large and disproportionate amounts of real estate that squatting on their property or forcibly redistributing some of their wealth robin-hood style would be the morally right and fair thing to do (outside capitalist preconceptions of fairness).
But this is a game, not shelter or food, and the gamers targeted by these theives are most probably not the wealthiest or greediest of individuals. If the theives at these events were stealing to feed or shelter their families that would be understandable at least (though still not morally justified IMO due to their choice of targets for theivery), but I highly doubt it, and more suspect greed and opportunism as their primary influences.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you are going to steal, steal morally and righteously (for example- you could hold up a bank known to give massive loans to millitary weapons contractors). Dont steal because you can- steal because you must, because sometimes there is a moral imperitive to steal.
In other words, these theives should have watched more disney movies. To quote my favorite...
"It seems to me, that in the rare occasion where the right course is committing an act of piracy, then an act of piracy is the right course!"
BRYAUGH plays punk and metal covers of songs from LOTR movies! Check out BRYAUGH on bandcamp and facebook!
rofl. seriously.
Sorry, but I just can't take internet revolutionaries seriously. I would love to see you and your friends try something like what the Weathermen or Baader-Meinhoff did in the 60's (and the Weathermen never got caught either.)
Puh-leaze.
Stealing is stealing. I can see a lesser sentence being foisted if the proceeds of the theft were paying for essentials, but really, the ends don't justify the means. If a bank is making big loans to giant military contractors, why not vote for politicians that will decrease military spending, if that is what you wish? If you feel no politicians represent your interests, why don't YOU run for office? Why not protest or petition for redress, legally? The wheels of democracy turn slowly, but they do turn.
As per the thieves, I hope they're beaten senseless with over-sized Mag-Lights. I too, have had stuff stolen from me (most notably, a cherished Thoughtseize), and the organized nature of the crime is most disturbing. For whatever reason, TCG's just to attract these sort of people: mean-spirited, nasty, stab-you-in-the-back cheats and thieves. A clear message needs to be sent.
Not to mention the hotel room the Judges and police searched contained Ipods, Laptops. Cellphones. ect. Probably Even Credit Cards and things. I've known people who leave their Wallets in their play bags. and that's possible Identity Theft.
I hope that WotC honestly pulls their own lawyers into this (highly doubtful, but one can hope) and charge these ****ers with Grand Larceny, and attempted Identity Theft. these people deserve it
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Because CCG cards haven't been recognized liek comic books and baseball cards have yet.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
All of the power nine are banned in Legacy. Most legacy decks are in the $500 range, and only if a deck was fully pimped with beta duals and all japanese foils could it approach $2000.
You might be thinking of vintage, where its commonplace to have all of the power nine in a single deck, as well as other $100+ cards, but this isn't really the case with legacy.
NO RUG
Team America
U/W Stoneblade
Zoo
No FOW bant
Modern:
In testing
It doesn't seem too unreasonable to think a pile of ipods, bags, and MTG cards can add up to well over that amount.
I agree with that 110% with that, but it won't happen for the same reason they won't make "weight" laws: The laws would be too vague and the judgement of the law is in the eye of the beholder. But seriously, just practice holding your breath so that you can't last a couple of minutes without walking out for fresh air...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There are stupid people out there asking to have their stuff stolen though. At one big event I went to, I saw a binder on a completely empty table, went over and opened up the binder...front page had 3 Moxes, a Black Lotus and some other old valuable stuff. Whoever owned that binder must have been REALLY out of it to leave that there, and for all intents should have lost that stuff. Lucky for him, I was the one that found it, and I brought it to the judge table. The owner came up to me about 15 minutes later with a judge and thanked me greatly.
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My friends say I'm very limited.
Apparently these guys are rumored to be linked to the same group that went through GP: Denver stealing stuff. Who knows how many other thefts they have committed.
For more information on this, see thestarkingtonpost: http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/?p=406 and its updates: http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/?p=408 & http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/?cat=271
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
Is this a mistake or what?
That is very odd... either that is a mistake, or they had two different people using the same DCI card...
e: ^ fellow arizonan represent
punishmentrehabilitation will end at some point and, according to statistical evidence, these men will repeat what they did (either in the very same way or with somethese else in a similar manner).I've been burned by theives before, but I love to trade so I choose not to leave everything else at home when I go to play. Perhaps the best advice against theives comes from this very site:
I sometimes use bicycle brake wire to form an extension so I can comfortably put my stuff down. On casual night there are a lot of decent guys on lookout (we all take care of each other; and I know I don't have the most expensive stuff anyway) but I don't trust FNMs.
They are brazen crooks. They are the guilty ones. Yes, take all the reasonable precautions you can. (I was far more sensitized to my exposure when my opp. got his stuff stolen during our match.) But, ultimately it's the crooks who should exhibit change of behavior, not the victims.
J
No one is putting that in doubt. But alot of players need to recognize that big time events aren't the same as your local FNM. At my local shop I never fail to find several abandoned backpacks, binders out on tables(some are even open!), and deckboxes or simply someone's deck out on the table while their owner is playing video games or out getting food. Many of the players there go to events like GPs and with the careless attitude they display at home I wasn't at all shocked to hear that they'd been stolen from. Being aware of your environment is serious business because your very life may depend on it. This carelessness cannot be easily dismissed because many Magic players are adults and have supposedly put away childish things.
Nice combo: a poll of one with a touch of religion.
In all seriousness, consider very serious crimes like rape. Because a women or man dresses in a skimpy, revealing, or "inviting" manner doesn't warrant, excuse, or permit acceptance of rape and sexual abuse. A problematic issue in most US cities are the bicycles are stolen off of front porches everywhere. Could the owner keep the bicycle inside (you know, next to the dinner table in the tiny duplex)? Sure. Should they need to? Most of us would agree no, they should be able to store their bike outside like one would expect.
Can individuals do more to prevent criminal activity from impacting their lives? Absolutely. Is it their fault that it happened to them? Rarely. Outside of instigation or knowledge that something would be unsafe, criminals are choosing to engage in behavior prohibited by law. It isn't a matter or "right or wrong" or even "moral or immoral" (though such considerations can be useful and powerful), it's simply that an individual is choosing convenience and ease over work. Taking what somebody else earned is as old as life. Only through the inhuman lens of "survival of the fittest" or "those who are stronger take from the weaker" would the victim be at fault for their experience at the hands of a criminal.
Of course, take what I argue with a grain of salt. But don't hit me up to help you out in getting your cards back in order in time for a tournament if you won't sympathize with those who have been wronged.