I don't think these people really care about their DCI cards.
Hopefully they all get sentenced appropriately.
I hadn't heard of these thefts until now, but I have to commend the TOs on how they had the police at the event and how everything was handled.
I am shocked at how ballsy these guys were.
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I witnessed the kid getting taken down.
Though eyewitnesses are not to be trusted, I saw a third man, not a judge, sweep up very quickly behind the thief and get him in a neck hold. This got the thief to the ground immediatedly where the two judges kept him. The third guy disappeared just as quickly out the back door. I presumed it was one of the cops.
The whole affair was handled very well, though.
The thief was on his cell phone the whole time and I presume he was alerting someone that he was about to be caught. He charged the judges with his shoulder before the third guy nabbed him.
One of my opponents was one of the victims. His bag was stolen from under his seat while we played. Naturally, no one noticed. It was a disgusting violation of his property to witness in person.
I agree. Despite being a fairly new trend the judges handled the whole situation very well. Just goes to show how serious those who put these events together are about the safety and well-being of their guests.
I wonder what WOTC will say about this, since now its becoming like a whole big thing. this is something i think the 'mouthpiece of magic' MaRo should talk about
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I wonder what WOTC will say about this, since now its becoming like a whole big thing. this is something i think the 'mouthpiece of magic' MaRo should talk about
Highly doubtful. It isn't 'becoming a big thing' because they were charged and caught.
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There are alot more people suspended for "dissemination of privileged information" than I thought there'd be. I digress...I'm not shocked by this at all. Thieves exist in every TCG and big events are excellent opportunities to make bank. In YGO I've heard some bad stories. Like someone's $2,000 deck being stolen while he and his opponent conferred with judges! >.< A friend who went to Chicago told me his Chrome Mox was stolen and that his friend had cards stolen from his deck on day 1. The friend did some turbo trading and got his deck back in order.
My advice to people is to bring only what you need to play. Trades need to stay in your room or car(in the trunk with your GPS noob!) and try to avoid keeping cash on you. Also, you don't need your phone, iPod, AND handheld video game system. Take your phone and leave the rest. When playing make sure you're comfortable and that any spectators are at least a foot and a half away, mainly so judges can see you more easily. If someone is getting too close to you, ask them to please move back a little and if they don't comply call a judge or security over to assist you. Players, please be aware of your rights at both the venue and the event itself. Doing so will go a long way to preventing such widespread theft in the future.
My advice to people is to bring only what you need to play. Trades need to stay in your room or car(in the trunk with your GPS noob!) and try to avoid keeping cash on you. Also, you don't need your phone, iPod, AND handheld video game system. Take your phone and leave the rest. When playing make sure you're comfortable and that any spectators are at least a foot and a half away, mainly so judges can see you more easily. If someone is getting too close to you, ask them to please move back a little and if they don't comply call a judge or security over to assist you. Players, please be aware of your rights at both the venue and the event itself. Doing so will go a long way to preventing such widespread theft in the future.
Seconded. When I go to play, I keep my cell on me and my one deck, that's it. The more stuff you have on you, the more stuff there is to have stolen/go missing. Minimize your risk by only taking what you need.
I wonder what WOTC will say about this, since now its becoming like a whole big thing. this is something i think the 'mouthpiece of magic' MaRo should talk about
What remains to be said, exactly?
'Don't steal, mkay?' & 'There are bad people out there, so don't be a dumbass & watch your personal property.'
P.S. 'Don't eat yellow snow.' & 'Don't stick a fork in electrical outlets.'
How many times should people be told what they oughtta know already?
The folks who got their stuff swiped also themselves to blame, frankly. Don't lose your head just b/c you're there to have a good time and play the game you love.
I think this is a fine example of how important it is to look after your own belongings like a mother dragon guarding her eggs. I'm also pleased to hear that judges stepped in, risking their own lives in apprehending the criminal. (He could have been carrying a gun.)
I just hope everyone gets their stuff back without problem.
Tekno.
I agree, its good to see that they're not only protecting the game, but the players them selves.
There are alot more people suspended for "dissemination of privileged information" than I thought there'd be. I digress...I'm not shocked by this at all. Thieves exist in every TCG and big events are excellent opportunities to make bank. In YGO I've heard some bad stories. Like someone's $2,000 deck being stolen while he and his opponent conferred with judges! >.< A friend who went to Chicago told me his Chrome Mox was stolen and that his friend had cards stolen from his deck on day 1. The friend did some turbo trading and got his deck back in order.
My advice to people is to bring only what you need to play. Trades need to stay in your room or car(in the trunk with your GPS noob!) and try to avoid keeping cash on you. Also, you don't need your phone, iPod, AND handheld video game system. Take your phone and leave the rest. When playing make sure you're comfortable and that any spectators are at least a foot and a half away, mainly so judges can see you more easily. If someone is getting too close to you, ask them to please move back a little and if they don't comply call a judge or security over to assist you. Players, please be aware of your rights at both the venue and the event itself. Doing so will go a long way to preventing such widespread theft in the future.
It is pitiful to resort to stealing. And I hope these guys get what they deserve.
The judges deserve a medal or something, how this was handled was exceptional.
Oh, I carry a bag, but I normally do something to keep it safe(like put the straps around my ankle), I do have to pay extra attention if I get up, but it keeps my stuff safe just in case.
I also wear utility cargo pants(they look cool and hold a lot) you never know when you might need 50+ pockets.
The folks who got their stuff swiped also themselves to blame, frankly. Don't lose your head just b/c you're there to have a good time and play the game you love.
Use. Your. Head.
I'd say having your bag between your legs under the table is pretty safe - it prevents anyone from stealing because they see an easy opportunity. These guys, however, were specifically looking to steal the whole weekend. I don't think you can be considered "to blame" when there is an intent on stealing. That's like saying a conservatively dressed woman walking on a sidewalk in the daytime is asking to be raped.
I hate to point this out, but theft & magic have gone together for as long as i've been playing (pretty much since Magic's inception). I quite playing competitive constructed back when all fo the rare cards were stolen out of my Erhnam-Geddon deck at a tournement while i sat and talked to an accomplice of the thief. Let me tell you, having cards stolen sucks, but having to drop out of a tournament because your cards were stolen sucks doubly so.
About a year or two earlier i had a Forcefield stolen at a card shop right off of the table while i was playing. The thief was banned from the store, but i never actually got my card back. Among other terrible thefts i've seen, i think the worst was when a friend had his binder stolen that had his Mox collection (this was back in 1997) in it. That was pretty traumatic.
In any case i think TeknoLink has the right idea. You have to watch your belongings closely! Don't let anyone handle your deck/binder/etc unless you're watching them closely. Don't turn away to talk to anyone while someone else is browsing your "trade binder" or "checking out you're deck". While you're playing make sure your bag in your sight or attached to you in some way (i usually make sure the strap is pinned behind by back).
And more importantly... stealing is stealling, whether its Magic cards or cash. Don't do it! It's illegal, immoral, and hurtful!
@Ness: If you leave your bike out without a chain and it gets stolen.. If you leave you car running, unattended, with the keys in the ignition, and it gets stolen.. In both cases, I'm sorry, you're partially to blame.
No one deserves to get raped, of course. I think that's a slightly imprecise analogy but I see where you're going with it. Rape & Theft really are apples & oranges, crime-wise, apart from both being crimes.
Put your chair leg through the bag loop so it cannot PHYSICALLY be removed without you're noticing. THEN relax and enjoy yourself. It's called 'not making it any easier for them' and it deters all but the most determined thieves, from what I've heard.
Hey, I totally empathize with them, ok?, but they really should've been more careful all the same. Thieves prey on easy targets, so don't be one.
The Phoenix Arizona store owners (Game Nightz and Samurai Comics) will probably get a note from Wizards.
How can they ban these players for life. It won't stop them from obtaining a new DCI cards with a different name. They can go to any event and use those new DCI cards. It is a positive thing that wizards are banning them, but it doesn't stop them from doing the same thing if they wanted to at a different event. This is all a waste of time. The only good thing to come out of this is these guys are charged for some wrong doing and spend some time in jail, which mostly like they won't. They'll probably get house arrest or something.
How can they ban these players for life. It won't stop them from obtaining a new DCI cards with a different name. They can go to any event and use those new DCI cards. It is a positive thing that wizards are banning them, but it doesn't stop them from doing the same thing if they wanted to at a different event. This is all a waste of time. The only good thing to come out of this is these guys are charged for some wrong doing and spend some time in jail, which mostly like they won't. They'll probably get house arrest or something.
Every store in Arizona knows them, and they won't be allowed in (other than the one that employs Esposito - they'll probably break all sorts of rules to let him play, and if they do, hopefully someone up in Phoenix will get some pictures and use that to get the store's sanctioning pulled savagely). If the guys try to show up at any WotC-run event out of state, other hilarity shall ensue. ¬_¬
Of course, we're also hoping that the alleged thief confesses and turns in his associates for criminal charges. We'll see!
RE: The players being partially to blame - not really. I'm not going into details on the speculated modus operandi, but if the allegations are correct, it was subtle enough that the players couldn't have taken any other reasonable precautions other than simply not bringing anything at all, which means no trading at the GP and that would be pretty lame. :/
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RE: The players being partially to blame - not really. I'm not going into details on the speculated modus operandi, but if the allegations are correct, it was subtle enough that the players couldn't have taken any other reasonable precautions other than simply not bringing anything at all, which means no trading at the GP and that would be pretty lame. :/
This. Multiple people got their stuff stolen as they were sitting down with their legs through the back pack strap.
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These guys are complete scum and I'm glad they finally got caught. We've been highly suspicious of them here in Arizona for years, but have never caught them or had enough proof to ban them from events. Not to sound too bitter, but I hope they serve time and I hope a man named Bubba becomes close personal friends with Mike Espesito (who tried to pick a fight with me during a PRERELASE after I called a judge on him for slow play(do you know how slow you have to play for me to do this during a PRL???)). Beyond us suspecting him of being a thief, he was generally just a mean spirited person and real plague upon the magic community in Phoenix and Arizona. Good riddance.
Nice to see someone get caught, and hopefully this will cause more people to be aware of the problem/be prepared to say something if they see something suspicious.
Though I'm glad that I've been able to see some of the advice posted here in other places before I attended my first gp. It was a real weight off my shoulders knowing the worst that could be taken from me was my deck for the main event.
Right, stealing is stealing and dumb is dumb. You can try to protect yourself the best you can, it's all you can really do, but even then people might try to steal from you.
Anyone here remember hearing about the Orlando Lorowyn Prerelease card theft attempt?
Back when PRs were still big events, 3 guys decided to try and steal the expensive binders from a vendor. The vendor was located at the far end of the hall opposite the entrance. Needless to say when he looked over and yell'd "stop them" the entire room looked up and dozens of people went to tackle the thieves.
People who steal will try to steal, even when the odds make it very dumb.
The lesson really is to just do your best to protect yourself and be smart about what you bring. ie if your not planning selling your set of Moxes right away, leave them secured somewhere else why you play.
When/if they prosecute these guys I hope their pictures go up on the internet so their shame can become community knowledge. But they'll probably get a slap on the wrist by authorities. At that PR I mentioned, the police officers tried to talk the vendor out of pressing charges and looked oddly at him when he said it was Grand theft.
I am honestly more interested in the guys who got suspended from 2009 to 2012 for dissemination of privileged information, specifically the guys from Texas. I have heard that there was something particularly stupid about what these guys did, and I missed all the fuss and hubbub... crappy day.
Anyways, on topic, the lifetime bans were probably the right thing for Wizards to do. However I still think that a 20 year or even 30 year ban might have been more appropriate, but then again, a life time ban does have the benefit of showing how severe this sort of thing is and says "If you do this, then expect to never play magic again!"
This sort of theft issue is exactly why I am actually glad I didn't go to the Grand Prix, believe it or not...
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Not useful if someone rips through the back of your backpack with a knife and removes the contents. Believe me, there are some real Arsene Lupins roaming around and I think you are being rather naive in considering that the people who had their belongings stolen are partially to blame for carelessness :-/.
this was what i was thinking the whole time i was reading this thread. you can get the strap that is "holding" it cut, and whoops... there goes the bag!
once, i was trading with a guy who opened his bag for his trade binder and left it open; someone swiped a deck box from him containing a fully foiled scepter chant (extended) deck. another time, friends of mine (one of whom i loaned cards to) had cards swiped by other players they invited into their hotel room to "party" with after a GP or something. they targeted specific cards; my 4x foil auntie's hovels and a friend's 4x foil mutavaults were among the stolen property.
in both cases, someone did something dumb. doesn't seem like most people at the GP did much dumb - other than the thieves, of course.
not bringing stuff with you is sometimes impractical/impossible. some people take public trans. to events and have to carry all the gear they bring with them - no one's leaving their ipod and/or PSP/DS at home when they have to ride the rails! also, people will want to trade - especially so at large events, where there are more available traders.
i'm lucky enough to play at a store where all the regulars are civil folk and look out for each other when new people are around... but i'm not naive. when i go to a "big" gathering, i leave extra decks, dice and playmats at home and keep my deck on my person as much as possible. i carry a backpack with my trade binders and other essentials, and always store it under the table, between my feet. if i open a pocket of the backpack and don't take out everything (like, say, both my trade binders), i close it up again and secure it.
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This is thought to be directly related to the Chicago GP theft incidences.
Check it out - -
http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/?p=416
The DCI Suspended List - - -
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/suspended
The Phoenix Arizona store owners (Game Nightz and Samurai Comics) will probably get a note from Wizards.
~
Hopefully they all get sentenced appropriately.
I hadn't heard of these thefts until now, but I have to commend the TOs on how they had the police at the event and how everything was handled.
I am shocked at how ballsy these guys were.
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Though eyewitnesses are not to be trusted, I saw a third man, not a judge, sweep up very quickly behind the thief and get him in a neck hold. This got the thief to the ground immediatedly where the two judges kept him. The third guy disappeared just as quickly out the back door. I presumed it was one of the cops.
The whole affair was handled very well, though.
The thief was on his cell phone the whole time and I presume he was alerting someone that he was about to be caught. He charged the judges with his shoulder before the third guy nabbed him.
One of my opponents was one of the victims. His bag was stolen from under his seat while we played. Naturally, no one noticed. It was a disgusting violation of his property to witness in person.
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A truly great petition
Highly doubtful. It isn't 'becoming a big thing' because they were charged and caught.
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My advice to people is to bring only what you need to play. Trades need to stay in your room or car(in the trunk with your GPS noob!) and try to avoid keeping cash on you. Also, you don't need your phone, iPod, AND handheld video game system. Take your phone and leave the rest. When playing make sure you're comfortable and that any spectators are at least a foot and a half away, mainly so judges can see you more easily. If someone is getting too close to you, ask them to please move back a little and if they don't comply call a judge or security over to assist you. Players, please be aware of your rights at both the venue and the event itself. Doing so will go a long way to preventing such widespread theft in the future.
Seconded. When I go to play, I keep my cell on me and my one deck, that's it. The more stuff you have on you, the more stuff there is to have stolen/go missing. Minimize your risk by only taking what you need.
I guess its for (can't think of the word) purposes.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
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I think it's to show the severity of the offense. At least i'm assuming that.
What remains to be said, exactly?
'Don't steal, mkay?' & 'There are bad people out there, so don't be a dumbass & watch your personal property.'
P.S. 'Don't eat yellow snow.' & 'Don't stick a fork in electrical outlets.'
How many times should people be told what they oughtta know already?
The folks who got their stuff swiped also themselves to blame, frankly. Don't lose your head just b/c you're there to have a good time and play the game you love.
Use. Your. Head.
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I agree, its good to see that they're not only protecting the game, but the players them selves.
It is pitiful to resort to stealing. And I hope these guys get what they deserve.
The judges deserve a medal or something, how this was handled was exceptional.
Oh, I carry a bag, but I normally do something to keep it safe(like put the straps around my ankle), I do have to pay extra attention if I get up, but it keeps my stuff safe just in case.
I also wear utility cargo pants(they look cool and hold a lot) you never know when you might need 50+ pockets.
I'm glad these guys were caught.
I'd say having your bag between your legs under the table is pretty safe - it prevents anyone from stealing because they see an easy opportunity. These guys, however, were specifically looking to steal the whole weekend. I don't think you can be considered "to blame" when there is an intent on stealing. That's like saying a conservatively dressed woman walking on a sidewalk in the daytime is asking to be raped.
I hate to point this out, but theft & magic have gone together for as long as i've been playing (pretty much since Magic's inception). I quite playing competitive constructed back when all fo the rare cards were stolen out of my Erhnam-Geddon deck at a tournement while i sat and talked to an accomplice of the thief. Let me tell you, having cards stolen sucks, but having to drop out of a tournament because your cards were stolen sucks doubly so.
About a year or two earlier i had a Forcefield stolen at a card shop right off of the table while i was playing. The thief was banned from the store, but i never actually got my card back. Among other terrible thefts i've seen, i think the worst was when a friend had his binder stolen that had his Mox collection (this was back in 1997) in it. That was pretty traumatic.
In any case i think TeknoLink has the right idea. You have to watch your belongings closely! Don't let anyone handle your deck/binder/etc unless you're watching them closely. Don't turn away to talk to anyone while someone else is browsing your "trade binder" or "checking out you're deck". While you're playing make sure your bag in your sight or attached to you in some way (i usually make sure the strap is pinned behind by back).
And more importantly... stealing is stealling, whether its Magic cards or cash. Don't do it! It's illegal, immoral, and hurtful!
No one deserves to get raped, of course. I think that's a slightly imprecise analogy but I see where you're going with it. Rape & Theft really are apples & oranges, crime-wise, apart from both being crimes.
Put your chair leg through the bag loop so it cannot PHYSICALLY be removed without you're noticing. THEN relax and enjoy yourself. It's called 'not making it any easier for them' and it deters all but the most determined thieves, from what I've heard.
Hey, I totally empathize with them, ok?, but they really should've been more careful all the same. Thieves prey on easy targets, so don't be one.
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How can they ban these players for life. It won't stop them from obtaining a new DCI cards with a different name. They can go to any event and use those new DCI cards. It is a positive thing that wizards are banning them, but it doesn't stop them from doing the same thing if they wanted to at a different event. This is all a waste of time. The only good thing to come out of this is these guys are charged for some wrong doing and spend some time in jail, which mostly like they won't. They'll probably get house arrest or something.
Every store in Arizona knows them, and they won't be allowed in (other than the one that employs Esposito - they'll probably break all sorts of rules to let him play, and if they do, hopefully someone up in Phoenix will get some pictures and use that to get the store's sanctioning pulled savagely). If the guys try to show up at any WotC-run event out of state, other hilarity shall ensue. ¬_¬
Of course, we're also hoping that the alleged thief confesses and turns in his associates for criminal charges. We'll see!
RE: The players being partially to blame - not really. I'm not going into details on the speculated modus operandi, but if the allegations are correct, it was subtle enough that the players couldn't have taken any other reasonable precautions other than simply not bringing anything at all, which means no trading at the GP and that would be pretty lame. :/
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This. Multiple people got their stuff stolen as they were sitting down with their legs through the back pack strap.
If it's truly irreplaceable, I guess leave it in the car trunk or something.
Again, my sympathies to the victims. Sincerely.
However, $5 spent on a cheap luggage lock would've prevented even this sort of sneakiness. Maybe it's time to invest, guys.
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those can be broken into. whatever people think up, someone will find out how to break into it
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A truly great petition
Though I'm glad that I've been able to see some of the advice posted here in other places before I attended my first gp. It was a real weight off my shoulders knowing the worst that could be taken from me was my deck for the main event.
Anyone here remember hearing about the Orlando Lorowyn Prerelease card theft attempt?
Back when PRs were still big events, 3 guys decided to try and steal the expensive binders from a vendor. The vendor was located at the far end of the hall opposite the entrance. Needless to say when he looked over and yell'd "stop them" the entire room looked up and dozens of people went to tackle the thieves.
People who steal will try to steal, even when the odds make it very dumb.
The lesson really is to just do your best to protect yourself and be smart about what you bring. ie if your not planning selling your set of Moxes right away, leave them secured somewhere else why you play.
When/if they prosecute these guys I hope their pictures go up on the internet so their shame can become community knowledge. But they'll probably get a slap on the wrist by authorities. At that PR I mentioned, the police officers tried to talk the vendor out of pressing charges and looked oddly at him when he said it was Grand theft.
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Anyways, on topic, the lifetime bans were probably the right thing for Wizards to do. However I still think that a 20 year or even 30 year ban might have been more appropriate, but then again, a life time ban does have the benefit of showing how severe this sort of thing is and says "If you do this, then expect to never play magic again!"
This sort of theft issue is exactly why I am actually glad I didn't go to the Grand Prix, believe it or not...
once, i was trading with a guy who opened his bag for his trade binder and left it open; someone swiped a deck box from him containing a fully foiled scepter chant (extended) deck. another time, friends of mine (one of whom i loaned cards to) had cards swiped by other players they invited into their hotel room to "party" with after a GP or something. they targeted specific cards; my 4x foil auntie's hovels and a friend's 4x foil mutavaults were among the stolen property.
in both cases, someone did something dumb. doesn't seem like most people at the GP did much dumb - other than the thieves, of course.
not bringing stuff with you is sometimes impractical/impossible. some people take public trans. to events and have to carry all the gear they bring with them - no one's leaving their ipod and/or PSP/DS at home when they have to ride the rails! also, people will want to trade - especially so at large events, where there are more available traders.
i'm lucky enough to play at a store where all the regulars are civil folk and look out for each other when new people are around... but i'm not naive. when i go to a "big" gathering, i leave extra decks, dice and playmats at home and keep my deck on my person as much as possible. i carry a backpack with my trade binders and other essentials, and always store it under the table, between my feet. if i open a pocket of the backpack and don't take out everything (like, say, both my trade binders), i close it up again and secure it.
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