Recently, MTGO held an online Worlds qualfier where the winner won a trip to Paris for Worlds, as well as a spot to play in the event. FelixLeong, who is a frequent top 8 player in Online Premier Events, ended up pulling off the victory. However, the attention that he got from this victory ended up costing him a lot more then he would've imagined, losing his entire online collection to someone who hacked the account:
Hi to everyone playing magic , this is Felix Leong Bao Jie , the guy who won the online worlds qualifer. My Magic online accounts Felixleong and Felixleong2 has been hacked , my password changed and both email accounts linked to the account disable, password and security question changed , i cannot access any of my emails and i cannot access my online accounts. So i called wizards and i was told there were 100 over trades made within this day , so all is lost , my account hacked and cards shipped away . i have a collection of over 200,000 cards including 2000++ rare, most which are tournament playable rares , that collection also consist of almost all of the present standard decks in the format and a couple of extended decks , i am very sad , i am very depressed , i no longer feel to play magic anymore and i wish i never won the online worlds qualifer and maybe if i didnt i wouldnt have been the center of attention and therefore a target by these hackers
Now i can only pray for wizards go deep into investigation and are able to retrieve my cards , but my hopes are not high as other online people that i met had got hack rarely got their stuff back
So Paris will probably be my last event and i wish u guys out there all the best and becareful of your accounts. I never told anyone my password , not even my family members know my password yet i still got hack , both emails and online accounts , those hacker are really smart if they would go work i bet they will be a very earning lots of $$ instead of hurting people and destorying people's lifes
This two accounts has been 3 years of my effort and time spent , and it hurts me so much to see it being stolen by such means , if u put yourself in my shoes , how would u feel?
i really hope wizards can do more about magic online , not only focusing on the game but also to us players , to have a more secure system , i really think thats lots of improvement that can be made, as i hear so many hack and scam cases online , but i never thought i would be the one to fall pray ..
thats all i gonnna say , have a nice day everyone and please continue to have fun , magic is really an amazing and fun game but in such an big community there's always bound to be a few that spoils our game
That is sickening, truly sickening.
And this is the problem with mtgo. The simple fact that no matter HOW good the security on mtgo *which im told isnt too good really* everything can be gone with thousands of dollars of cards just disappear.
I hope the best, and that Felix gets his cards back or some sort of... compensation from WoTC, which isnt likely sadly.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Wow that sucks. Its like he said, there's always bound to be a few that spoil it for the rest of us. The fact that someone who could have been a great contributer to the game is now going to give it up because some insensitive ******* decided it would be fun to take all of his stuff. Seriously though, stealing online cards? how low do you get?
Pathetic, utterly pathetic, Whatever little faith I had in MTGO is now gone. That hacker is dispicable. Forcing a player(a high ranking on at that) to resign is utteryl unacceptable.
It sucks, but even more it has ruined his joy in playing a GAME. where fun is the key element. It is unfortunate to have to see someone quit such an awesome thing such as magic. I hope all works out for him in the long run.
That sux so bad! I don't even play online, and after hearing this I certainly would think twice. Wotc better hook that guy up because this is the worst press they could have gotten for a potential customer like myself. This definitley speaks to the security of their site! I wonder if people are using credit cards to activate or pay for their accounts? Something worth thinking about!
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"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
This is a horrible crime. And equally as bad is MTGO's response. They easily have the means to replace his collection, costing them nothing. I have a friend who this happened to, not on remotely the same scale, however. MTGO really needs to step up to the plate and help their loyal customers. Ever since what happened to Rancored_Elf, I have seen Wizards as more concerned about the profitability of their business than their customers/fans. Stupid capitalism...:mad:
The same thing happened to me over the summer, though I probably 'only' lost 3-4K worth of cards. It's unfortunate, but, it's impossible to expect WotC to do anything about it. Also, saying that this is just 'some fault of MTGO' isn't really fair. If you have some binders in a backpack and it gets stolen, do you expect the store owner to compensate you? No, you don't. The thought doesn't even cross your mind. Do you fault that store owner? Most likely not, except in extreme circumstances. As such, it always makes me wonder when this happens on MTGO and people blame MTGO. Aside from which, if WotC was in the habit of replacing collections in this kind of circumstance, it would be extremely easy to fake your own collection getting hijacked and just rip them off on a continual basis.
The situation sucks, but, it's a risk of playing Magic. You just suck it up and start again, you don't quit.
I really hope the hackers are brought to justice. Hacking into somebody's account and stealing their magic cards is just like getting your bank account hacked into and robbed of all your money.
I shed my tears to this guy, and I hope you get your collection back.
If Felix doesn't get his cards back, I'm selling my modo collection. And I'd advise anyone else with a heavy investment in the game to do the same. There is no reason why we should need to put up with shoddy service like that. The big difference between having something stolen on modo and in real life is that in real life, you usually have control over your belongings. On Modo, you just get violated.
In real life, you either watch your cards, or risk someone stealing them. Online, you rely on a company to have decent security, and if you don't, you not only feel wronged, but BETRAYED. ESPECIALLY when Wizards can simply add those cards to your account once again. They're not even spending money on the printing press to reprint anything. They just add in some code, and bam. Problem solved. No big deal. Saying they can't do anything is completely bogus.
Seriously! What the hell can you do about a hacker getting your collection?
The same thing happened to me over the summer, though I probably 'only' lost 3-4K worth of cards. It's unfortunate, but, it's impossible to expect WotC to do anything about it. Also, saying that this is just 'some fault of MTGO' isn't really fair. If you have some binders in a backpack and it gets stolen, do you expect the store owner to compensate you? No, you don't. The thought doesn't even cross your mind. Do you fault that store owner? Most likely not, except in extreme circumstances. As such, it always makes me wonder when this happens on MTGO and people blame MTGO. Aside from which, if WotC was in the habit of replacing collections in this kind of circumstance, it would be extremely easy to fake your own collection getting hijacked and just rip them off on a continual basis.
The situation sucks, but, it's a risk of playing Magic. You just suck it up and start again, you don't quit.
I am extremely sorry to hear that this happened to you as well.
Of course you can't expect store owners to replace your paper cards. It is entirely possible to expect a giant corporation to replace your 'digital cards.' I understand people may try to take advantage of such a policy, but this is the type of issues a fraud department handles. And certainly, for a corporation that makes as much money as Hasbro does, it is in their better interest to take care of people that have given them as much business as you and Felix Leong have.
I'm dissapointed in Felix, he worked so hard, and succeeded where many; like myself, have failed. I know what it's like having your cards stolen. It happened to me too. Except I was at a Regionals in Baltimore, and all my cards were stolen. I asked my wife to watch my bag while I went to the bathroom. I come back to find her talking to some guy about why she's there. I look under the seat and find my cards stolen. So I look at the guy hitting on my wife, and just tackle his ass. I was arrested and thrown out of DCI tournies for 2 years. I told them that guy had something to do with it, that he distracted her, or something. They ignored me.
Point is, 2 years later, I have my collection back and running, I play FNM's and placed top 10 at Seattle Regionals on May20th this year, and I'm going to someday reach the top.
Granted, what that Hacker did is horrible, it makes me sick to imagine someone sitting there with all those cards taken, looking at them, and laughing to himself. However the guy is probably worried that WOTC will catch up to it, however the hacker must have known that WOTC wouldn't really care, or do that deep of an investigation, if he knew they would have, he never would have done it.
So it's sad to say I highly doubt Wizards will persue this issue. I was considering MTGO, for the prices. But seeing that security is lack, I wont be doing that anytime soon.
In the end, I have to say, shame on the person that stole his cards, assuming he didn't steal them himself, and shame on Felix for giving up so quickly. He has the talent, and the endurance to go that far, and for his cards to be stolen, and just put up his arms and give up.
Personally I think it's silly, I'm not that high in the pro-ranking, and I'm sponsored, how is it he doesn't have someone to back him. Knowing he has incredible potential, and alot of publicity.
personally, I think felix is obtuse, and too quick to give up.
don't get me wrong. But I think he should show his manner of a man, wipe off the sniffly tears, and tuck in that lip, and get back to deck building.
I'm an mmo-rpg player and Hacking has been an issue and was NEVER solved or have any items RETURNED. Imagine what you have invested here: TIME, MONEY and EFFORT... THEN YOU GET [EMAIL="!@%^*((^$"]!@%^*((^$[/EMAIL] HACKED?!!?!?The reason why i quit playing mmo's
I completely understand why Felix would want to quit now and it sucks bad because it just goes to show how bad security can get with this game. Thank goodness I'm not playing MTGO, but will I play it? I doubt it.
Yeah if any of you guys have accounts or cards just sell them or anything, don't be a victim. We are so suppose to enjoy this game; not to be milking cows of some...
(M:tG) It's a hobby which costs money. You can't play golf without the right clubs and a membership for the golf court, you can't play paintball with a cardboard armor and a sling, you can't go to the movies without paying for a ticket and you can't play Magic without owning the cards. Simple as that.
I personally believe that the best way to counteract such theft would be for each trade to require Email confirmation. So that way, in order for people to hack you, they need to hack two seperate accounts. And if you keep your email private it would be nearly impossible to end up with this result.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I'd really hope that Wizards gives Felix every card back that was stolen.
But, that would mean giving away product! All that man power and time and effort, holy cow. Customer service? Come on people, give MTGO a break.[/sarcasm]
Their options are to repair the damage, or not repair the damage.
Not repairing the damage would brand a bad image on MTGO for those that have invested lots of time and money into their collections.
While it may have an affect on the number of new people starting up MTGO, it really shouldn't scare anyone who doesn't intend on spending lots of time or money. People like me who try to fit in a draft every few weeks or so, and maybe a league here or there, are not targets of hackers [unless people are REALLY desperate to be hated]. It is, however, the people that take the game as a strict hobby and greatly enjoy it, and input resources to make Magic as involved as it is today that are potential victims of hacks.
I think that IP checks should be run for Felix's logins for the day where those trades took place. They OBVIOUSLY weren't by him. If they could take it a step further and compare billing addresses [documented for purchase purposes], then perhaps they could realistically figure out who hacked.
I forsee the creation of PINs [a little known fact that the term 'PIN number' is redundant] to trade and partake in tournaments, as an additional wall of security.
I'm sorry for your loss Felix, ans wish that perhaps it wouldn't knock you down and out. And extreme shame shall fall on those responsible.
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Waiting patiently for MTGO Leagues to become a priority again. It's been 4 years :sick:.
Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
You can't call a guy a weakling for wanting to quit at a game that, as it has just been proven to him, can have everything taken away from him at no fault of his own. I only rarely played MTGO for drafts on the side anyways, but I'm not even gonna bother if this becomes a more common occurence.
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
Here's the biggest problem I have with MTGO's response:
They have records of the trades taking place.
One would think that they would also have records of the person on the receiving end of those trades and be able to close that person's account and prosecute for fraud.
I hope they at least shut down Felix's account, so the hacker doesn't max out his credit cards on event tickets and booster packs.
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Fa - ce - tious - ly: The only English word with every vowell in order.
While that's by far the harshest, most crushing story of card theft that I have ever heard, at least you can think on the positive side; You are finally free of the most addictive, time-consuming, life-changing, expensive drug on the face of the Earth! (think about it)
To my understanding, there isn't a way for a hacker to actually hack WOTC's end of the connection and determine whose collection to steal. If they did, they would've stolen a lot more than 1 guy's collection. Neither can you bruteforce your way into a person's account even thoguh the account name is the same as the logon name since the password itself would require a freaking supercomputer to try all possible combinations without timing out.
Most likely, he has a phantom keystroke program (and most likely picked up from a magic website) that captured his password which unfortunately means that this is his responsibility....
I doubt WOTC will do anything to compensate the man since they:
A) REFUSE to acknowledge the power creep taking place in MtG lately (cos there IS ONE imo, despite what that royal twit Forsythe says)
B) see NO PROBLEM at all in harshly persecuting those who use bad language, yet make NO DISCERNIBLE ATTEMPTS at addressing WHY they swear in the first place.
But both of those are points for other threads/other days.
Having been recently kicked for using bad language, I just want to give a shout out to Felix. I once met him in the finals of an 8-Man event of some sort (I cant quite remember what) and he split with me so we could both leave happy.
If he finds heart to come back I'll give him some stock towards recovery, because he was nice to a certain guy once, and there are FAR TOO MANY jerks on MTGO as is.
P.S How do i get rid of typeover?
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"Between your faith, and my Glock 9mm....I'll take my Glock." -- End Of Days
If I recall the MODO terms of service, there is basically a "you're screwed" clause that says if something like this happens all they are liable for is giving you a $15 certificate for the digital store so you can start over.
It is sad that he got hacked like that, but it probably was cause of a keystroke logger. Perhaps he could have been more vigilent about anti-virus and firewall software, but sometimes even those miss things.
And wizards should be able to figure out where the cards went since they have trade records, but I don't think they are going to do anything about it.
Quote from starcitygames.com »
The"You are Screwed" Clause "To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Wizards hereby disclaims all warranties and conditions with regard to the CD, the download, the software, the game service, the game products, the game, the account, and all other services"
So Wizards wants to eschew all responsibility. Oh yeah, except for:
"Wizards' liability to you or any third parties is limited to $15."
The original price of the game, if purchased in a store, is all you can get back. If the servers get hacked, if they go down at the beginning of a draft before you get a chance to draft that foil City of Brass you saw opened, if your account is deleted, or anything else - here's $15, sorry for your troubles. Wow, that really is ballsy.
I am extremely sorry to hear that this happened to you as well.
Of course you can't expect store owners to replace your paper cards. It is entirely possible to expect a giant corporation to replace your 'digital cards.' I understand people may try to take advantage of such a policy, but this is the type of issues a fraud department handles. And certainly, for a corporation that makes as much money as Hasbro does, it is in their better interest to take care of people that have given them as much business as you and Felix Leong have.
You seem confused about how magic, and especially, MTGO, works. I give very little 'business' to WotC. I've probably spent less than $100 out of my pocket on MTGO. It's not any different for any other successful competitive player. You pay 5 tix for an event, and you win however many packs from it, which you just convert to more tix, hence making a big profit, none of which MTGO actually sees any of, or has anything to do with. MTGO's bread and butter is NOT people that are good at Magic, it is people that are awful at magic.
It sucks that this happened, but, quitting over it or expecting to be compensated for it is just silly. You just keep playing and you'll get it back.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=723914
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
And this is the problem with mtgo. The simple fact that no matter HOW good the security on mtgo *which im told isnt too good really* everything can be gone with thousands of dollars of cards just disappear.
I hope the best, and that Felix gets his cards back or some sort of... compensation from WoTC, which isnt likely sadly.
"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."
- David Hume
"Arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them."
- Laura Teresa Marquez
The situation sucks, but, it's a risk of playing Magic. You just suck it up and start again, you don't quit.
I shed my tears to this guy, and I hope you get your collection back.
In real life, you either watch your cards, or risk someone stealing them. Online, you rely on a company to have decent security, and if you don't, you not only feel wronged, but BETRAYED. ESPECIALLY when Wizards can simply add those cards to your account once again. They're not even spending money on the printing press to reprint anything. They just add in some code, and bam. Problem solved. No big deal. Saying they can't do anything is completely bogus.
Seriously! What the hell can you do about a hacker getting your collection?
I am extremely sorry to hear that this happened to you as well.
Of course you can't expect store owners to replace your paper cards. It is entirely possible to expect a giant corporation to replace your 'digital cards.' I understand people may try to take advantage of such a policy, but this is the type of issues a fraud department handles. And certainly, for a corporation that makes as much money as Hasbro does, it is in their better interest to take care of people that have given them as much business as you and Felix Leong have.
Point is, 2 years later, I have my collection back and running, I play FNM's and placed top 10 at Seattle Regionals on May20th this year, and I'm going to someday reach the top.
Granted, what that Hacker did is horrible, it makes me sick to imagine someone sitting there with all those cards taken, looking at them, and laughing to himself. However the guy is probably worried that WOTC will catch up to it, however the hacker must have known that WOTC wouldn't really care, or do that deep of an investigation, if he knew they would have, he never would have done it.
So it's sad to say I highly doubt Wizards will persue this issue. I was considering MTGO, for the prices. But seeing that security is lack, I wont be doing that anytime soon.
In the end, I have to say, shame on the person that stole his cards, assuming he didn't steal them himself, and shame on Felix for giving up so quickly. He has the talent, and the endurance to go that far, and for his cards to be stolen, and just put up his arms and give up.
Personally I think it's silly, I'm not that high in the pro-ranking, and I'm sponsored, how is it he doesn't have someone to back him. Knowing he has incredible potential, and alot of publicity.
personally, I think felix is obtuse, and too quick to give up.
don't get me wrong. But I think he should show his manner of a man, wipe off the sniffly tears, and tuck in that lip, and get back to deck building.
Felix- Your a weakling.
That is all,
-AluCard-
I'm an mmo-rpg player and Hacking has been an issue and was NEVER solved or have any items RETURNED. Imagine what you have invested here: TIME, MONEY and EFFORT... THEN YOU GET [EMAIL="!@%^*((^$"]!@%^*((^$[/EMAIL] HACKED?!!?!?The reason why i quit playing mmo's
I completely understand why Felix would want to quit now and it sucks bad because it just goes to show how bad security can get with this game. Thank goodness I'm not playing MTGO, but will I play it? I doubt it.
Yeah if any of you guys have accounts or cards just sell them or anything, don't be a victim. We are so suppose to enjoy this game; not to be milking cows of some...
And to hackers, Yes there is Hell.
I'd really hope that Wizards gives Felix every card back that was stolen.
But, that would mean giving away product! All that man power and time and effort, holy cow. Customer service? Come on people, give MTGO a break.[/sarcasm]
Their options are to repair the damage, or not repair the damage.
Not repairing the damage would brand a bad image on MTGO for those that have invested lots of time and money into their collections.
While it may have an affect on the number of new people starting up MTGO, it really shouldn't scare anyone who doesn't intend on spending lots of time or money. People like me who try to fit in a draft every few weeks or so, and maybe a league here or there, are not targets of hackers [unless people are REALLY desperate to be hated]. It is, however, the people that take the game as a strict hobby and greatly enjoy it, and input resources to make Magic as involved as it is today that are potential victims of hacks.
I think that IP checks should be run for Felix's logins for the day where those trades took place. They OBVIOUSLY weren't by him. If they could take it a step further and compare billing addresses [documented for purchase purposes], then perhaps they could realistically figure out who hacked.
I forsee the creation of PINs [a little known fact that the term 'PIN number' is redundant] to trade and partake in tournaments, as an additional wall of security.
I'm sorry for your loss Felix, ans wish that perhaps it wouldn't knock you down and out. And extreme shame shall fall on those responsible.
Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
You can't call a guy a weakling for wanting to quit at a game that, as it has just been proven to him, can have everything taken away from him at no fault of his own. I only rarely played MTGO for drafts on the side anyways, but I'm not even gonna bother if this becomes a more common occurence.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
They have records of the trades taking place.
One would think that they would also have records of the person on the receiving end of those trades and be able to close that person's account and prosecute for fraud.
I hope they at least shut down Felix's account, so the hacker doesn't max out his credit cards on event tickets and booster packs.
MTGO account name: FSM
MTGO rating: 1795
To my understanding, there isn't a way for a hacker to actually hack WOTC's end of the connection and determine whose collection to steal. If they did, they would've stolen a lot more than 1 guy's collection. Neither can you bruteforce your way into a person's account even thoguh the account name is the same as the logon name since the password itself would require a freaking supercomputer to try all possible combinations without timing out.
Most likely, he has a phantom keystroke program (and most likely picked up from a magic website) that captured his password which unfortunately means that this is his responsibility....
thanks to perv90210!
A) REFUSE to acknowledge the power creep taking place in MtG lately (cos there IS ONE imo, despite what that royal twit Forsythe says)
B) see NO PROBLEM at all in harshly persecuting those who use bad language, yet make NO DISCERNIBLE ATTEMPTS at addressing WHY they swear in the first place.
But both of those are points for other threads/other days.
Having been recently kicked for using bad language, I just want to give a shout out to Felix. I once met him in the finals of an 8-Man event of some sort (I cant quite remember what) and he split with me so we could both leave happy.
If he finds heart to come back I'll give him some stock towards recovery, because he was nice to a certain guy once, and there are FAR TOO MANY jerks on MTGO as is.
P.S How do i get rid of typeover?
It is sad that he got hacked like that, but it probably was cause of a keystroke logger. Perhaps he could have been more vigilent about anti-virus and firewall software, but sometimes even those miss things.
And wizards should be able to figure out where the cards went since they have trade records, but I don't think they are going to do anything about it.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
You seem confused about how magic, and especially, MTGO, works. I give very little 'business' to WotC. I've probably spent less than $100 out of my pocket on MTGO. It's not any different for any other successful competitive player. You pay 5 tix for an event, and you win however many packs from it, which you just convert to more tix, hence making a big profit, none of which MTGO actually sees any of, or has anything to do with. MTGO's bread and butter is NOT people that are good at Magic, it is people that are awful at magic.
It sucks that this happened, but, quitting over it or expecting to be compensated for it is just silly. You just keep playing and you'll get it back.
No, it's not. In point of fact, it's a very common reaction.
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.