MTG Salvation

Allow me to introduce myself. I am the technical administrator of EN World and the front end design administrator of the Wizards of the Coast messageboards, including the official Magic: The Gathering boards. In a nutshell I'm the guy responsible for how the Wizards boards display their information.

That said, allow me to stress that what I'm about to write is my own opinion entirely, and doesn't represent in any way the opinions or policies of Wizards of the Coast or its staff members.

Guys, I've read mtgnews since the days of Tempest block and The Dojo. And in that time I've enjoyed the previews immensely as well as the insight of some of the articles (I'm chiefly a casual player). In that time I've also been on the staff of several messageboards. I have never in that time seen such a public and humiliating meltdown of a staff as the lot of you have displayed over the Christmas holidays.

I haven't read enough of the self-important manifestos to care who's at fault. Truth is, I don't browse the forums enough to know any of you. I have no opinions about any of you on either site. The only reason I'm posting here instead of at mtgnews is that the membership confirmation email from mtgnews never gets to me - probably because of a server side spam blocker. I have tried to contact the admins about this several times in the last six months and have gotten no response.

I don't know what the problem really is and I will not pretend to know. What I do know is what is displayed on the front page of each site and in the forums of each site. Both sides are equally sickening. Trying to tear each other down will accomplish nothing, except perhaps to drive the readership of www.brainburst.com up a little higher.

I'm not in a position to offer specific advice to rectify whatever problems you guys have - if they can be rectified. I can offer some general advice - go back to admin boot camp. Spend a day or so reading threads and articles over at The Admin Zone. Take down these inter-board squabble forums and threads. If you can no longer live together at least stop hurling boulders at each other. In short: Grow Up.

A couple of months ago I offered to skin the mtgnews forums to make them match the homepage free of charge. That's about $200 work at the going rate. I never received a response. The offer still stands if you guys get your act together and start behaving like responsible adults.

:shocked1: This is very interesting stuff...Too bad I can't do anything about it, my say around here means diddly squat.

-Alpha

First of all, welcome! Salvation is a really great board, I hope you enjoy yourself here if you stick around at all.

Now don't take this the wrong way, but it may be a little foolhardy to pass judgment on a situation as well as those reacting to it when you yourself admit to not knowing the full story. I believe you mean well, but telling us all to grow up will only raise the ire of those who you were probably targetting. At least I hope you weren't referring to the whole community because the majority of us have moved on from the problem and are working hard at rebuilding the community as a whole. There were, and to a small extent still are, a few childish individuals on both boards who seem elated to add fuel to the fire and try to stir up trouble, but that is hardly representative of the bigger community. On either site.

Things have improved immensely in the last week, but posting a message such as this will only lead to a regression to raised tensions. We're trying to move on, and the wonderful admins here plan to close this subforum this week I believe, once the need for healing discussion is gone.

So, thanks for posting.

ETA:

Too bad I can't do anything about it, my say around here means diddly squat.

You shouldn't say that. TNK and the rest of the admin staff are very responsive to the criticisms and suggestions of the community. They made this place for us and intend to make it a place where every member's say means something. So you should really make your voice heard, you might be surprised.

My message is addressed specifically to the administrators and moderators - the staff. It is the duty of those in leadership to keep this sort of thing private. That it because public is indicative of a failure of leadership by someone - or multiples someones. Exactly who, I don't know. But it is saddening to see.

Quote from "Michael Morris" »

My message is addressed specifically to the administrators and moderators - the staff. It is the duty of those in leadership to keep this sort of thing private. That it because public is indicative of a failure of leadership by someone - or multiples someones. Exactly who, I don't know. But it is saddening to see.

But the problem wasn't really ever private. A massive split in the community was caused by the resignation of half the News' admin staff. This public forum is here to allow us to air our opinions in the hope of some kind of resolution and mutual moving on. In that respect, this subforum is a great success, not a failure as you say. The community was already in an uproar, trying to keep a lid on it would only make it worse. This site was formed on that very basis, to allow us to voice our dissatisfaction and opinions. So saying the admins here are in the wrong to allow us to discuss this problem in the community publically is pretty much wrong itself in my view.

You're right, it certainly is saddening to see this forum. That doesn't mean that the administrators and volunteer staff over on MTGnews necessarilly made a mistake. At a certain point, they got fed up with a perceived lack of action from the owner and gave up. They (understandably) wanted to take as much of the community with them as they could.

I'm actually not doing any work administrating on this site (or MTGnews anymore for that matter). I'm just helping them get setup with some minor code variations other admin working setting up vBulletin. But the admins definitely understand that this forum needs to dissappear shortly. Fortunately, with discussion dying down, that won't be too long at all.

Michael, I'm sure that Greg (the owner of MTGnews) would be very glad to accept your offer. I don't know how he missed it. If you could contact me via private message, email (darth [dot] cow [at] mindspring [dot] com) or IM (darthc0w on AIM) I'd be happy to give his personal email address. He has a serious lack of competent programmers and designers and seems to have some trouble finding volunteers.

First of all, do note that this particular section of the site is not that long away from being closed. So believe me, we agree with you to an extent.

*dons therapist hat*

The thing is, when the admins and mods of MTGNews left, there was very little sign as to what had actually happened. Subterranean_Spirit, the admin whose policies and actions supposably drove the other admins and most of the mods to leave, deleted the initial "goodbye" message by Rancored_Elf and posted his own.

Following that, there was a spam attack on MTGNews by several members of this site (I'm not really sure all of them) which was somewhat immature, but effective. The 'News users found at least a place to regroup while wondering what would happen (MTGNews was down at that point to prevent further spam attacks). When Rancored_Elf found his way over here and said that what Subterranean_Spirit had posted was, for the most part, a lie, people got angry, righteously.

People were confused as to what was going on. People were angry. People were sad. And they brought all those emotions here. And "people" includes admins and mods.

Most of the pure, simple anger was disposed of early on. If you're interested in what's been happening, I suggest that you go to the top of "MTGNews Discussion" and click on "Links to Old Forum Threads" to see the fury that was unleashed right after the cataclysm.

This section of the site has simply been some flame therapy, getting it out of our systems. We all loved MTGNews, and we percieve Subterranean_Spirit to be the cause of its downfall. He was an immature man; yet an immature man with a lot of power. Immaturity tends to bring on immature responses. So do flames.

Some admins and mods have, in this section, taken the bashing a little too far. But it was simply participating in a loud scream that's lasted for about a week and is starting to lower and sharpen to an enthusiastic Hurrah, especially since Subterranean_Spirit has been de-admined over at MTGNews.

Please, if you want to know the extent of this story, and get a better feel of the reasonings for actions, click the "Links to Old Forum Threads" link.

*removes therapist hat*

-Goblinboy

I have been mulling over the threads on both sites out of morbid curiousity than anything else and getting a better picture of what's going on. I haven't pointed fingers yet and I'm not going to start now.

I didn't mean to offend anyone - and if I have I'm sorry. I was very careful in the wording of my statements above. Everyone knows what was done and knows what applies to them and what doesn't.

We all make mistakes - I've made more than most. Just pick up the pieces and move on. Life is too short for grudges, in my opinion. The people that get hurt the most in these situations are those caught in the middle. I've had friends fight before, and it's never pleasant.

I think we are moving on, for the most part. The spamming has stopped, the anger has subsided now that SS is no longer in charge of MTGnews, and this particular forum (MTGnews discussion) is going to be shut down within a few days. It doesn't seem likely that the MTGnews community will be whole again, but I think that has more to due with the excitement surrounding a new site than any bitterness between the forums. A lot of people post both here and at 'news anyway (myself included). It's inconvenient, but not that bad really. Thank you for your insight, and also for your offer to help us out at 'news. I hope that works out.

Quote from Michael Morris »

I was very careful in the wording of my statements above. Everyone knows what was done and knows what applies to them and what doesn't.

Then why did you need to post?

No offense, but it sounds like you decided to stick your nose into something that you didn't have the first clue about.

WOOPS!

Regardless of anything that anyone might take offense at, I'm sure that your gracious offer is appreciated by whomever you directed it at, whether it be the owner of this site, the owner of MTGnews, or both. Most of the damage has subsided, and while I agree with you, most of what you are suggesting is already in effect, ie the calming down Thank you though, and I look forward to seeing what gets decided.

Hrm, I've seen you post at the Wiz_O boards...welcome!

Am I the only person thinking this is secretly the DPC or something using a cheap trick to get people to go back :sweat:?

Quote from Greg »

Am I the only person thinking this is secretly the DPC or something using a cheap trick to get people to go back :sweat:?

I hope so... :whatever: Greg... Posts like that? Not helping...

We're moving on.

No offense, Michael, but you're catching this at the tail end of things, really. At this point, we're working through the situation in a much more mature fashion. I understand that you are refering to the admin side of things, but I get the impression that the majority of the administrative folks involved did an admirable job of keeping it professional. There was a mistake of some "confidential" information being posted, but I get the impression that the individual involved now regrets having done it and has learned from the experience. (Like you said, we all make mistakes. ;))

I think that we're okay.

Rabit

Quote from Rabit »

I hope so... :whatever: Greg... Posts like that? Not helping...

We're moving on.

No offense, Michael, but you're catching this at the tail end of things, really. At this point, we're working through the situation in a much more mature fashion. I understand that you are refering to the admin side of things, but I get the impression that the majority of the administrative folks involved did an admirable job of keeping it professional. There was a mistake of some "confidential" information being posted, but I get the impression that the individual involved now regrets having done it and has learned from the experience. (Like you said, we all make mistakes. ;))

I think that we're okay.

Rabit

agrees with rabit

and then bows to michael (if thats really who you are) - you do a GREAT job with wizards.com :smile3:

The thing is, as much as the sentiment is correct, you must understand the timing. The entire MTGnews community was torn apart by a catastrophic structure meltdown, only made worse by a bunch of really horrible administrative decisions. The general public needed somewhere to talk about it, and that place has become here.

Yes, the past week has been full of immature actions on the part of many people, but unfortunately, Subterranean_Spirit blocked all the mature ways of handling the problem. Talking it out on the MTGnews forums was the correct solution, and if you so much as brought it up, you were banned. Hence, vigilante justice took hold and people got the message across the only way they could, and came here to discuss it. This forum was created to remove the clutter of the discussion on the state of MTGnews from the rest of the sections of the website, to clean up the forums and make it so the rest of the site could be used for other topics, instead of flooding the rest of the forums with rightfully angry people. When the topic finally dies down in a day or two, this forum will be locked and archived. This isn't the administrators promoting a war, this is the administrators attempting to keep order on their forums, a move I can fully agree with.

Also, while I don't mind the sentiment that you stated, I do mind your total lack of research before posting it. I do not appreciate being told to shut up and move on when I already pretty much have. I really don't like being told to "GROW UP" when I've been handling this entire affair with as much maturity as I possibly can. I haven't been flaming. I haven't been acting like a retard. I have been discussing it in a civilized manner with other people who are also discussing it in a civilized manner. Don't assume that every member is as bad as the ones who cause trouble. If you really are the administrator over the official Wizards' forums, I'd assume you know that every forum has its troublemakers, spammers, and trolls. You cannot possibly judge a forum by the people at the bottom of the membership in intelligence.

There won't be a forum war, and if such a thing somehow does come to be, I will be packing up and leaving again for another forum with members with some better common sense and maturity, like I did early January. I'd hope to think I'm correct in assuming most of the people here would be along with me for the trip.

Edit: Badly worded sentence.

Quote from rancored_elf »

No offense, but it sounds like you decided to stick your nose into something that you didn't have the first clue about.

WOOPS!

Quoted because it's true.
Michael, let me be the first to say that your response is both timely and accurate to the current state of affairs. The only way your response could have been more timely was if it included a tsunami refrence and/or Admiral Akbar proclaiming "It's a trap!" In the very same tone, I welcome your timely response and usership as a response to something you openly admit to not knowing a damn thing about.
While I'm sure the work you do is wonderful, joining our boards to tell us to "grow up" almost 2 weeks after the events you're responding to with very little in the sense of "what the hell is actually going on here" is almost as childish as repremanding our community on "0M6! FLAEM WARZZZ11one" alone when, if you'd been reading more thuroughly, most mebers of our forum were repremanding other users who chose to actively attack MTGnews. In addition, claiming that a 'continued flame war will only drive more users to brainburst' should be exclamated with the fact that our userbase, during and after (I can't give you current numbers) the schism, was greater than two other competing forum-based magic websites, MiseTings and MTGnews.
Thank you again for your avid support of our community, but make sure the platform you're standing on is sturdy before you start pitching rocks at the crowd below.