Do we have any way to ensure that someone isn't just using someone else's name? The example I used over at MTG News is what if someone went to Misetings and registered as Rabit, then proceeded to spam them. Am I going to get warned?
I agree that banning on first offense isn't fair, in any case.
I also agree that, whatever S_S does, it does not give anyone justification to spam them. To paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite TV shows, that kind of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thinking will leave everyone blind and toothless. Seriously, it isn't productive - only destructive. Would you like someone to start spamming MTG Salvation, simply becuase they have a grudge against TNK? Is that fair to us, the users of the site? I personally don't think that it is, and I'd rather not give people on other forums the impression that we think it is.
S_S has already used comments like this against us, over there, supporting his actions. Seems like we keep giving him ammunition to use in preventing the community from healing... :whatever:
Charles, while you probably are no longer reading this, I'd like to say that of all the MTGNews loyalists, you're easily the LEAST convincing. While TKN is definately not doing a perfect job, given the circumstances (a thousand-member community practially over-night) he's not doing so badly, either. This community needs work, yes, but thats because it's relatively new and lacks cohesion.
MTGNews is not in the wrong. S_S is. None of us are saying that MTGNews is a bad place, but with S_S in charge, and utilizing 'TEH BANSTICK' it's moving further into the deep end. Which isn't good, because MTGNews is still having some trouble treading water. I am still a member at both, and I'd like to tell you that there has been NO member-stealing (how dense do you have to be to think we are STEALING MEMBERS?!). People have left MTGNews/joined here because there IS something wrong over there, and we want an alternative (sorry, but I absolutely hate the humour at MiseTings).
We do NOT condone spamming, and have NOT sent people on advertising or spamming raids. I think TKN meant to say what he said a little more suavely. I'm pretty sure he meant that there is absolutely NO way we can stop people from spamming other sites. What he failed to realize is that we can obviously discourage them, but his point is still valid. These people are not acolytes of Salvation, they are merely releasing their OWN pent up anger. The affiliation is non exhistant.
EDIT: Oh, and it pains me that you are misquoting so horribly, Mr. (above). 'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' was said by Mahatma Gandi.
Oh, and it pains me that you are misquoting so horribly, Mr. (above). 'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' was said by Mahatma Gandi.
Uh, no offense intended, but since you apparently didn't read closely, I wasn't quoting (or even misquoting) Mahatma Gandi. I was paraphrasing a quote from a character named Delenn from a television series called Babylon 5. (She was speaking to a character named Michael Garibaldi about his statement that he was an "eye for an eye kinda guy".)
I'm very sure that the Delenn quote stemmed from Mahatma Gandi's quote, however, but I wasn't misquoting anyone, since I specifically said I was paraphrasing.
But I am sorry to have caused you pain, even due to a misunderstanding - my apologies.
*cracks knuckles* Now, what I'd really like to see happen is for Scott to come register and join us at MT. Let's see how he handles people who can be far bigger ********s than him.
Come to the dark side, Scott... give into your anger... :evil1:
i wouldn't even consider him an ********. he's just a mild irritant with a piss poor attitude regarding, well, everything.
an ******** is someone like, well, most of hte people at MT (myself included).
Alrighty, now everyone here is insisting that we do something about the spam, and TNK is saying that we can't. TNK is right, and here is a simple reason why:
How are we supposed to prove that the spammer is indeed the same person from this community? There is no practical way to determine that except for the screen name. That is one of the most easily faked things in the history of the internet. Before you say "IP" or "hostmask", let me remind you that using a proxy is simple enough, and by doing so you could easily change your IP address to something totally unrelated, or even worse, you could change your IP to something similar to another member in an attempt to get in trouble. Not to mention this all rests on having S_S provide us with correct IP information. There is no way to determine what he's saying is true, and he has obviously got a large amount of motivation to lie to us. We cannot prove who is who on the internet, and henceforth, banning people for things that they may or may not have done on another message board is bad policy.
I agree, spamming MTGnews in the name of MTG Salvation is wrong, immoral, and should not be done. However, we do not condone it, and we actively say you shouldn't do it. We cannot take responsibility for people who are breaking your rules and our rules, because we are not that person. The only person who should take responsibility for breaking a rule is the person who broke the rule, and I see no reason why your ban-happy admin cannot ban someone who is spamming as well. It's happening on his forum, so he should be the one to administer a punishment. At least banning someone for spamming is a ban I can agree with, and if all he was doing was banning spammers, then I would consider him to be responding more correctly.
I agree, but EVERY POST I have seen of yours is hilarious.
You beg to be a mod on news, kiss Scott's ass, agree with everything, etc.
We can co-exist, yes. It will take a little while.
I just hope people will pick one site and stick to it. It makes no sense to post on both.
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News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
Charles, while you probably are no longer reading this, I'd like to say that of all the MTGNews loyalists, you're easily the LEAST convincing. While TKN is definately not doing a perfect job, given the circumstances (a thousand-member community practially over-night) he's not doing so badly, either. This community needs work, yes, but thats because it's relatively new and lacks cohesion.
MTGNews is not in the wrong. S_S is. None of us are saying that MTGNews is a bad place, but with S_S in charge, and utilizing 'TEH BANSTICK' it's moving further into the deep end. Which isn't good, because MTGNews is still having some trouble treading water. I am still a member at both, and I'd like to tell you that there has been NO member-stealing (how dense do you have to be to think we are STEALING MEMBERS?!). People have left MTGNews/joined here because there IS something wrong over there, and we want an alternative (sorry, but I absolutely hate the humour at MiseTings).
We do NOT condone spamming, and have NOT sent people on advertising or spamming raids. I think TKN meant to say what he said a little more suavely. I'm pretty sure he meant that there is absolutely NO way we can stop people from spamming other sites. What he failed to realize is that we can obviously discourage them, but his point is still valid. These people are not acolytes of Salvation, they are merely releasing their OWN pent up anger. The affiliation is non exhistant.
EDIT: Oh, and it pains me that you are misquoting so horribly, Mr. (above). 'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' was said by Mahatma Gandi.
First of all, it is oly your belief that S_S is wrong, it hasn't been proven. Second, atleast charles is agruing that we should all stop fighting. You seem to be in favour of continued seperation, which clearly isn't in the best interests of the community.
Also, we ned some people to argue the "other side". Whether they actually support scott, or are just playing Devil's advocate, it helps us put in all in perspective.
Alot of the people are spamming news because they think it is in the bst interests of salvation. If TNK says "Don't Do That", and threatens warnings, and explains how it helps nobody, maybe people will realise that it isn't a good plan, and stop. We can stop some of the spam, and we have to atlest try.
Charles- I must say, I wish you'd post here as I consider you one of the best members this community has ever had, and a good friend.
That said, if we knew for a fact that a member of ours did post threads (like R_E's statement) all over News that would get them banned for spamming and advertising, I personally think a banning is right. Afterall, in the first few hours, it was confusion, but know, everyone knows what will happen and they do it with that intention. IMHO, it deserves a banning.
Ok:
1. Bob Jennings from Rolland, Missouri visits NarutoEX and decides to use the "Sasuke going into curse mode" Avatar I use and spam/floods MTGnews. He makes no distinction as to who he's affiliated with, only that he doesn't like MTGnews. I happen to be using said Avatar. By your logic, by preemtively banning people suspected of flooding/spamming, I am going to be banned. I don't support that policy- I didn't when we went to war in Iraq and I'm pretty damn sure I don't support it now.
If you are going to berate anyone for doing something, usually it's best to do it to the person doing it as to someone who has no knowledge of that person. You don't cut your head off when you try to pop a pimple, you squeeze the pimple and that should be that.
2. Constantly restating, over and over again, when only a select few individuals have taken it upon themselves to spam "GO TO MTGSALVATION!!!111 OMGZZZZZZZZ!11one" over and over again, that "OMG, U GIEZ NEAD 2 STOP!1" annoys me quite a bit, especially when you direct it to the whole of the community, and especially when I, as part of the community, have not and will not do anything. In my eyes, you're spamming our forums and, as you've openly agreed, spamming should not be tolerated. Please stop spamming our forums and maybe you won't instigate more people to spam your forums.
There's only so many times you can beat a dead horse before EVERYONE realizes you're a ****ing idiot.
3. I was banned from MTGnews for one or all of the following reasons:
- Started a topic in the General Discussion forum wanting to discuss the following which had not previously been discussed on the MTGnews boards
- I criticized S_S's skills as a "respectable, responsible" businessperson who is claiming to the community as a whole that he is in the right and has done nothing wrong
- Posted an email received by R_E that was sent to R_E's personal email box. The email was not posted or discussed in the Mod Lounge and was made public by R_E himself
- I did NOT mention MTGSalvation, Salvation, berate the MTGnews community, spam, flood, curse, or break any forum rule I was aware of
Before the banning, I'd been a part of the community via lurking since Ody and a registered member since the forum was remade at the beginning of 2004. I was outraged that S_S had driven off the integral members (and moderators, no less) from the forums and that his unwillingness to compromise in addition to his pile of broken promises was now effecting the MTGnews community. Soon afterwards (still before the banning), I learned that S_S was REALLY Scott Gearhardt, an individual I've had a personal grudge with for approximately 8 years who I have had direct contact with via his email, his websites, his internet stores, and now, his forums. It was because of this that I have singled out S_S and refuse to acknowledge anything he tries to do to appease those who feel the way I do about his actions as anything more than lies and deception, which is all I've even known him for in my 8 years knowing him.
4. Being a zealot about MTGnews reduces you to the same level as the zealots of MTGsalvation, since that seems to be some kind of issue of any meaning or relevance. Before you criticize others for "sinking to a low", take a look in the mirror.
Ok, I'm done. If the words don't have any effect, you lose.
As I said, Banning is only an option to me if we are 100% we know exactly who it is... While it may be difficult to deem that, some users have posted saying they did things like that, and that is a confirmation we can be sure of.
Wow, This surprises me. I mean i knew ss would eventually get a brain and realize he needs to at least try to resolve this civilly. I never thought he would b the first one over there to really say that, but hey, he is right for once. We should try to get along with the people at mtgnews, because they are still a part of what makes the community great, and being able to realize that he needs to do this is the first step in the right direction that SS has made i believe.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
I still think its total BS to ban someone for something they do at another site. No matter what they say.
I personally think, once your fair and decent on any given site it shouldn't matter what you do on any other site. If I want to go to MT and spam the crap out of them, I should only face some kind of banning there.
What's next? Are they going to make it so that if they find your screen name on a message board that has absolutley nothing to do with magic and see that your being silly only to ban you on News or Salvation.
I just want to make it clear that there are people who think its an AWFUL idea. And that you should face absolutley NO punishment for anything you do on any other board.
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"All Thats Good Is Gone, I Have Tried Too Long" Rasputina - A Quitter
I just want to make it clear that there are people who think its an AWFUL idea. And that you should face absolutley NO punishment for anything you do on any other board.
I'd agree with you, but these same ********s are posting here saying "LOL, I TOTALLY OWNED MTGNEWS, EWE GIEZ!!"
People like that are not needed in our community, especially when we're trying to establish that we're not here to nuke their forums.
I still think its total BS to ban someone for something they do at another site. No matter what they say.
I personally think, once your fair and decent on any given site it shouldn't matter what you do on any other site. If I want to go to MT and spam the crap out of them, I should only face some kind of banning there.
What's next? Are they going to make it so that if they find your screen name on a message board that has absolutley nothing to do with magic and see that your being silly only to ban you on News or Salvation.
I just want to make it clear that there are people who think its an AWFUL idea. And that you should face absolutley NO punishment for anything you do on any other board.
AS - You're a really nice persona nd all, but the honest truth is your side is just a little biased, no?
Anyways, spamming another site is one thing. Doing it in the name of another site is wrong.
Although I did spam there before now that they have more less declared peace I say we embrace them. Although I do think people should be allowed to spam the site, that is there choice but do not make it look like it is for us or anything. If you hate them and want to spam them fine, but do not make it look like it is this forum. That makes us look bad and provokes them to spam us. That is just my take consisting mosting of what has already been said..
I will agree with what Sorryguy said. He put it a lot better.
I can understand that saying "Hey, im from News and (Insert Site Name Here) sucks, and your all stupid and News rules" gives News a bad name and that its generally in poor taste. But none the less, I still feel they shouldn't recieve any kind of repurcussions anywhere but where they spammed.
And thank you for thinking im nice Butteblues, I appreciate that. And I suppose I might be slightly biased on the issue, but in the same vein, I think that having experiance in the issue helps support my opinion on some level. Im sorry if that doesn't make any sense.
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"All Thats Good Is Gone, I Have Tried Too Long" Rasputina - A Quitter
Charles, while you probably are no longer reading this, I'd like to say that of all the MTGNews loyalists, you're easily the LEAST convincing.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, wait. "MTGNews loyalists"? What the hell is this? Are we going to be called "Tories" next? Come on. This is getting absurd.
We do NOT condone spamming, and have NOT sent people on advertising or spamming raids. I think TKN meant to say what he said a little more suavely. I'm pretty sure he meant that there is absolutely NO way we can stop people from spamming other sites. What he failed to realize is that we can obviously discourage them, but his point is still valid. These people are not acolytes of Salvation, they are merely releasing their OWN pent up anger. The affiliation is non exhistant.
I just hope people will pick one site and stick to it. It makes no sense to post on both.
:whatever:
Uh, I guess that I should apologize for not making any sense, then?
Why does it not make sense? Personally, I can give you a number of reasons, not all of which apply to me:
The individual still has friends on both sites that he/she likes to post with
The individual is interested in waiting out the current chaos to see how things settle out
The individual has time available to post on multiple sites and is interested in the conversations going on at both MTG News and MTG Salvation
The individual has an interest in seeing that all sides are represented in this situation, preventing any one site from becoming too biased against the other
That's just some things that make sense to me as to why someone would post on both sites. Now, they may not make sense to you - or to anyone else, for that matter - but we are all allowed our different opinions...
I agree that banning on first offense isn't fair, in any case.
I also agree that, whatever S_S does, it does not give anyone justification to spam them. To paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite TV shows, that kind of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thinking will leave everyone blind and toothless.
S_S has already used comments like this against us, over there, supporting his actions. Seems like we keep giving him ammunition to use in preventing the community from healing... :whatever:
Rabit
MTGNews is not in the wrong. S_S is. None of us are saying that MTGNews is a bad place, but with S_S in charge, and utilizing 'TEH BANSTICK' it's moving further into the deep end. Which isn't good, because MTGNews is still having some trouble treading water. I am still a member at both, and I'd like to tell you that there has been NO member-stealing (how dense do you have to be to think we are STEALING MEMBERS?!). People have left MTGNews/joined here because there IS something wrong over there, and we want an alternative (sorry, but I absolutely hate the humour at MiseTings).
We do NOT condone spamming, and have NOT sent people on advertising or spamming raids. I think TKN meant to say what he said a little more suavely. I'm pretty sure he meant that there is absolutely NO way we can stop people from spamming other sites. What he failed to realize is that we can obviously discourage them, but his point is still valid. These people are not acolytes of Salvation, they are merely releasing their OWN pent up anger. The affiliation is non exhistant.
EDIT: Oh, and it pains me that you are misquoting so horribly, Mr. (above). 'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' was said by Mahatma Gandi.
I'm very sure that the Delenn quote stemmed from Mahatma Gandi's quote, however, but I wasn't misquoting anyone, since I specifically said I was paraphrasing.
But I am sorry to have caused you pain, even due to a misunderstanding - my apologies.
Rabit
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Curse Premiumi wouldn't even consider him an ********. he's just a mild irritant with a piss poor attitude regarding, well, everything.
an ******** is someone like, well, most of hte people at MT (myself included).
How are we supposed to prove that the spammer is indeed the same person from this community? There is no practical way to determine that except for the screen name. That is one of the most easily faked things in the history of the internet. Before you say "IP" or "hostmask", let me remind you that using a proxy is simple enough, and by doing so you could easily change your IP address to something totally unrelated, or even worse, you could change your IP to something similar to another member in an attempt to get in trouble. Not to mention this all rests on having S_S provide us with correct IP information. There is no way to determine what he's saying is true, and he has obviously got a large amount of motivation to lie to us. We cannot prove who is who on the internet, and henceforth, banning people for things that they may or may not have done on another message board is bad policy.
I agree, spamming MTGnews in the name of MTG Salvation is wrong, immoral, and should not be done. However, we do not condone it, and we actively say you shouldn't do it. We cannot take responsibility for people who are breaking your rules and our rules, because we are not that person. The only person who should take responsibility for breaking a rule is the person who broke the rule, and I see no reason why your ban-happy admin cannot ban someone who is spamming as well. It's happening on his forum, so he should be the one to administer a punishment. At least banning someone for spamming is a ban I can agree with, and if all he was doing was banning spammers, then I would consider him to be responding more correctly.
I agree, but EVERY POST I have seen of yours is hilarious.
You beg to be a mod on news, kiss Scott's ass, agree with everything, etc.
We can co-exist, yes. It will take a little while.
I just hope people will pick one site and stick to it. It makes no sense to post on both.
Twitter
why?
DotP
Plastik
Anyway, this idea of scott's is absurd. I mean, what rabit said.
Out.
First of all, it is oly your belief that S_S is wrong, it hasn't been proven. Second, atleast charles is agruing that we should all stop fighting. You seem to be in favour of continued seperation, which clearly isn't in the best interests of the community.
Also, we ned some people to argue the "other side". Whether they actually support scott, or are just playing Devil's advocate, it helps us put in all in perspective.
Alot of the people are spamming news because they think it is in the bst interests of salvation. If TNK says "Don't Do That", and threatens warnings, and explains how it helps nobody, maybe people will realise that it isn't a good plan, and stop. We can stop some of the spam, and we have to atlest try.
did you really have to be such an ass over there?
DotP
Plastik
That said, if we knew for a fact that a member of ours did post threads (like R_E's statement) all over News that would get them banned for spamming and advertising, I personally think a banning is right. Afterall, in the first few hours, it was confusion, but know, everyone knows what will happen and they do it with that intention. IMHO, it deserves a banning.
However, it is not my choice in the matter.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
1. Bob Jennings from Rolland, Missouri visits NarutoEX and decides to use the "Sasuke going into curse mode" Avatar I use and spam/floods MTGnews. He makes no distinction as to who he's affiliated with, only that he doesn't like MTGnews. I happen to be using said Avatar. By your logic, by preemtively banning people suspected of flooding/spamming, I am going to be banned. I don't support that policy- I didn't when we went to war in Iraq and I'm pretty damn sure I don't support it now.
If you are going to berate anyone for doing something, usually it's best to do it to the person doing it as to someone who has no knowledge of that person. You don't cut your head off when you try to pop a pimple, you squeeze the pimple and that should be that.
2. Constantly restating, over and over again, when only a select few individuals have taken it upon themselves to spam "GO TO MTGSALVATION!!!111 OMGZZZZZZZZ!11one" over and over again, that "OMG, U GIEZ NEAD 2 STOP!1" annoys me quite a bit, especially when you direct it to the whole of the community, and especially when I, as part of the community, have not and will not do anything. In my eyes, you're spamming our forums and, as you've openly agreed, spamming should not be tolerated. Please stop spamming our forums and maybe you won't instigate more people to spam your forums.
There's only so many times you can beat a dead horse before EVERYONE realizes you're a ****ing idiot.
3. I was banned from MTGnews for one or all of the following reasons:
- Started a topic in the General Discussion forum wanting to discuss the following which had not previously been discussed on the MTGnews boards
- I criticized S_S's skills as a "respectable, responsible" businessperson who is claiming to the community as a whole that he is in the right and has done nothing wrong
- Posted an email received by R_E that was sent to R_E's personal email box. The email was not posted or discussed in the Mod Lounge and was made public by R_E himself
- I did NOT mention MTGSalvation, Salvation, berate the MTGnews community, spam, flood, curse, or break any forum rule I was aware of
Before the banning, I'd been a part of the community via lurking since Ody and a registered member since the forum was remade at the beginning of 2004. I was outraged that S_S had driven off the integral members (and moderators, no less) from the forums and that his unwillingness to compromise in addition to his pile of broken promises was now effecting the MTGnews community. Soon afterwards (still before the banning), I learned that S_S was REALLY Scott Gearhardt, an individual I've had a personal grudge with for approximately 8 years who I have had direct contact with via his email, his websites, his internet stores, and now, his forums. It was because of this that I have singled out S_S and refuse to acknowledge anything he tries to do to appease those who feel the way I do about his actions as anything more than lies and deception, which is all I've even known him for in my 8 years knowing him.
4. Being a zealot about MTGnews reduces you to the same level as the zealots of MTGsalvation, since that seems to be some kind of issue of any meaning or relevance. Before you criticize others for "sinking to a low", take a look in the mirror.
Ok, I'm done. If the words don't have any effect, you lose.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
As I said, Banning is only an option to me if we are 100% we know exactly who it is... While it may be difficult to deem that, some users have posted saying they did things like that, and that is a confirmation we can be sure of.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
I personally think, once your fair and decent on any given site it shouldn't matter what you do on any other site. If I want to go to MT and spam the crap out of them, I should only face some kind of banning there.
What's next? Are they going to make it so that if they find your screen name on a message board that has absolutley nothing to do with magic and see that your being silly only to ban you on News or Salvation.
I just want to make it clear that there are people who think its an AWFUL idea. And that you should face absolutley NO punishment for anything you do on any other board.
Rasputina - A Quitter
I'd agree with you, but these same ********s are posting here saying "LOL, I TOTALLY OWNED MTGNEWS, EWE GIEZ!!"
People like that are not needed in our community, especially when we're trying to establish that we're not here to nuke their forums.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
AS - You're a really nice persona nd all, but the honest truth is your side is just a little biased, no?
Anyways, spamming another site is one thing. Doing it in the name of another site is wrong.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
I can understand that saying "Hey, im from News and (Insert Site Name Here) sucks, and your all stupid and News rules" gives News a bad name and that its generally in poor taste. But none the less, I still feel they shouldn't recieve any kind of repurcussions anywhere but where they spammed.
And thank you for thinking im nice Butteblues, I appreciate that. And I suppose I might be slightly biased on the issue, but in the same vein, I think that having experiance in the issue helps support my opinion on some level. Im sorry if that doesn't make any sense.
Rasputina - A Quitter
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, wait. "MTGNews loyalists"? What the hell is this? Are we going to be called "Tories" next? Come on. This is getting absurd.
I'm very very happy to say that you're wrong.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=12705&postcount=1
Ok, this is the kind of crap that undermines everything. Why the hell not?
:whatever:
Uh, I guess that I should apologize for not making any sense, then?
Why does it not make sense? Personally, I can give you a number of reasons, not all of which apply to me:
- The individual still has friends on both sites that he/she likes to post with
- The individual is interested in waiting out the current chaos to see how things settle out
- The individual has time available to post on multiple sites and is interested in the conversations going on at both MTG News and MTG Salvation
- The individual has an interest in seeing that all sides are represented in this situation, preventing any one site from becoming too biased against the other
That's just some things that make sense to me as to why someone would post on both sites. Now, they may not make sense to you - or to anyone else, for that matterRabit