Any mtgnews.com members who intentionally spam other forums in the name of mtgnews.com stand to get banned here. Talking about the site is one thing, blatent spam is not tolerated.
Scott
I think we should make the same pledge. News and slavation share many members, we shouldn't fight. Its a good rule, too. I'm for following this example. You?
As long as I'm allowed to link to the autocard of Channel the Suns, fine.
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New Rules come out for 1999 6th Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO PORTAL! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for 2010 Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO YU-GI-OH! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for *Reserved for something in 2020* "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO *currently "simple" game by the more "skilled" players*! THE GAME IS..." etc.
It's not even a matter of question. If we're really going to follow this policy that we are the same community as MTGNews, only with a different URL, then this is a policy that must be instated. Anything less would simply acknowledge that there is a divide in the community, which would deny the reason this site was created to begin with.
It's not even a matter of question. If we're really going to follow this policy that we are the same community as MTGNews, only with a different URL, then this is a policy that must be instated. Anything less would simply acknowledge that there is a divide in the community, which would deny the reason this site was created to begin with.
Actually, TNK could argue that S_S doesn't represent the community. Still, nipping that argument in the bud, whatever S_S represents, this sort of action is what is best for both forums.
I agree... although a lot of us are hurt at by what has happened recently, we can't act irrationally about it. It may be self satisfying to try and burn 'News, but it is also self destructive. I personally would like this site to stand for everything that 'News lost, and we should lead by example.
I would like to think that a rule like this shouldn't even be neccessary, that spamming other sites should just be discouraged and not actively punished. I also wouldn't like the mods and admins trying to control what we do on other sites.
However, if this is what is required to prevent MTGNews from becoming a complete spamfest and saving Salvation's reputation, then I guess it is something that maybe has to happen.
(ps: I couldn't find where you got the quote from, god child. could you post a link?)
Lead means that that person/side took the initiative. Seeing as Scott was the one to do so, Salvation isn't in the position to lead by example. In fact Salvation is the reason this has come into effect basically.
Quote from ikerr »
I would like to think that a rule like this shouldn't even be neccessary, that spamming other sites should just be discouraged and not actively punished. I also wouldn't like the mods and admins trying to control what we do on other sites.
However, if this is what is required to prevent MTGNews from becoming a complete spamfest and saving Salvation's reputation, then I guess it is something that maybe has to happen.
(ps: I couldn't find where you got the quote from, god child. could you post a link?)
I would think it shouldn't need to be said as well, but I'd rather have the rule than the following said:
Quote from Kuberr »
Well whoever Pwnd is that username isn't even registered here. I'll PM the other two and tell them not to spam but I'm not going to punish them for their actions on another website, even if it is MTGnews. What they do here is here, what they do there is there. If they persist to spam even after I ask them not to, its your problem, not mine. For all we know they may not even be the same persons but using that name, impersonating them. Heck, for all we know, someone at MTGnews could be doing that to try and get people here in trouble. If you're getting spam attacked thank your wonderful owner for making people want to.
Maybe if Salvation gets spam attacked everyone will thank Kuberr for making people want to. Yes I've thought about spamming this place (and getting friends too as well), but that doesn't accomplish anything, just makes whichever side I'm associated with look even worse. Which is the case with Salvation. If Kuberr cares about his site's reputation, he'll do what he can to put an end to this rather then just brushing it off because "it's not his problem." That's the cheap way out and you all know it.
Last thing I'll say is this:
While Scott may not have done the best job in the past, at least he's trying now. Something Chris/Ricky can really learn from if he wants to be a good leader for his community (which I know he does).
With that said, I doubt I'll be posting here again cause frankly I don't like being associated with a site that basically condones its members spamming another site in the hopes of stealing it's members. I wish you all luck since I have many friends here and it's always nice to have another good community for those looking for an alternate/another.
~Charles
(SapphireDragon26)
EDIT:
Quote from Belgareth »
Scott is not taking first step , as we have already issued warnings to spammers of news' but we don't censor talk against us here.
Salvation is on swear word list over there.
Look above. If you're trying to tell me what Kuberr said is the first step, then you need to open your eyes.
We don't all condone that type of behavior. Just like a news, there are people who spam, people with short fuses, so to at Salvation. But we also have our fair share of good members too, some who can't or won't got back to 'news. By refusing to not post here, you are saying goodbye to those members.
You should stay and post, we need some more people with a less bias opinion.
Say what you want but compared to the things Scott's been doing since New Years Eve, a few rogues I have no control over spamming MTGnews in the name of Salvation or whatever doesn't put Scott in the lead by example (which I've said time and again I do not condone). I believe we took big steps in not banning him when he came here and started posting more b.s. (what he's best at), and not deleting MTGnews zealots posts because their opinion may not agree with ours. Not to mention we haven't censored words, banned people for linking there, failed to give credit to sources of info, and lie through our teeth. If we were truly the ones in the wrong then I'm pretty sure over a thousand people wouldn't have registered here in the last four days.
You should stay and post, we need some more people with a less bias opinion.
Not a chance in hell. Here's why:
Quote from The Numen, Kuberr »
If we were truly the ones in the wrong then I'm pretty sure over a thousand people wouldn't have registered here in the last four days.
Glad to think that Salvation did nothing wrong.
And yes you said you don't condone it, but you also said it wasn't your problem. When your site is associated with it, it is your problem.
Please ban me now as trying to reason with members who are "Salvation only" appears to be pointless. I'll converse with the reasonable ones who go to both (or just News) over there.
*cracks knuckles* Now, what I'd really like to see happen is for Scott to come register and join us at MT. Let's see how he handles people who can be far bigger ********s than him.
Come to the dark side, Scott... give into your anger... :evil1:
Just because he is more wrong than us, which is debatable, tha doesn't put us in the right, and doens't give us the right to do what we want. If our members were spamming any other board, you'd be on them like a ton of bricks.
If our members were spamming any other board I would have the same stance on that as I do on MTGnews. Don't assume my position on things. I don't dislike MTGnews, I dislike Scott. I'm not going to punish people at MTGnews by leading hordes of demonic spam raiders against MTGnews. As a matter of fact any mod can tell you that we have a strict rule in place that we will not tolerate grudges againt people who still post at MTGnews or post there and here both.
And yes Charles, arguing with MTGnews zealots is pretty pointless because they seem to be blind to what they have over their heads over there and that there's a hole in their ship and it's sinking really fast. And no, if people registered here are spamming your board, it is not my problem nor my place to take care of it. You all can quit expecting us to do things we shouldn't have to do because you're discontent with the way things are there.
I'm done with this entire idiotic argument. I have things to do, alot better things to do than argue a pointless argument with a side that will never give up. The only thing MTG Salvation is to be blamed for is being a better community and website than MTGnews is right now under Scott's power, and the fact that we're drawing away from it because we're actually doing something with this place. I care about our community and have things to do besides worry about some ignorant accusations. There's a long list of things to do I need to get back to. Good day.
And yes you said you don't condone it, but you also said it wasn't your problem. When your site is associated with it, it is your problem.
Please ban me now as trying to reason with members who are "Salvation only" appears to be pointless. I'll converse with the reasonable ones who go to both (or just News) over there.
Good luck.
What abou the reasonable members who've been banned on 'news for linking to salvation, without ever being harshly pro-salvation.
Dont' give up on this forum yet, Steph.
TNK: The only reason they are "sinking" is because we aren't doing enough to help. I respect MTGnews, and don't want to see it forgotten, because of the actions of a small few. News doesn't ahve to die, and we shouldn't, as a community, want ti to die. If the point of salvation is to destroy news, then I've misunderstood something. I thought this was to be a safe-haven, where we could rebuild news. Whether we do that on the url www.mtgnews.com or www.mtgsalvation.com doesn't matter, what does is the community.
I dont see how this is a first step plenty of our mods have been on mtgnews, stating that we do not condone any of the spamming that happened, we took the first step not S_S.
Qwerty
Really, because thats not what TNK has been saying, and I don't think you threatened to ban people who spam other boards.
*cracks knuckles* Now, what I'd really like to see happen is for Scott to come register and join us at MT. Let's see how he handles people who can be far bigger ********s than him.
Come to the dark side, Scott... give into your anger... :evil1:
I dont see how this is a first step plenty of our mods have been on mtgnews, stating that we do not condone any of the spamming that happened, we took the first step not S_S.
Qwerty
its a small concession. Hopefully Scott gains intellect from learning how to run a forum.
-tinker
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Tinker, you rock!
Quote from i love tinker »
Ignorance may be bliss, but the ignorant are still stupid.
This makes me sad. You're a good friend and it upsets me to hear you talk like that. I never said that Salvation "never did anything wrong", and I don't think Numen meant to say that, either. I don't have anything against News, I just can't post there because I'm banned. I resigned as admin, and lost my ability to continue as part of that site. I'm still in the community, though. This is the future of that community. Being "loyal" to MTGnews is honorable, but I think some people think it's their duty to go down with a sinking ship. I prefer to simply accept that there are two sites for the community. One is old, one is new. One starts with N, one starts with S. But in the end, we're one community, and some of us post on one "area", some post on the other "area", and some post on both.
What I'd love is for SS to have an unfortunate smelting accident and end up unable to continue destroying MTGnews, and perhaps everybody could just join together, hold hands, and sing kumbaya. I guess that won't happen, though.
I think we all want MTGNews to get back to the way it used to... but everyone has a different opinion on how to do it. Me personally, I take the word Salvation to heart. This is not a place meant to revolutionize or destroy 'News, this is a place to recover. I have a feeling the old news may return, but its a wave. Because what is happening now, the wave is going down... news is dying, people come here, Raa and S_S figure it's not worth the money, and jump ship as well. What happens after that is unknown, but possibly someone more reasonable or the community could reclaim the site... Something to that effect.
But to think that Salvation should punish people for being stupid in 'News seems a bit dumb to me. We all came here because we were tired of the oppression, and if we start punishing people for what they do in 'News, we're following the same path. We may not condone it, we may not agree with it, and maybe we are inadvertently linked to 'News, but ultimately, it's Raa and S_S' forum, not ours. So they have to deal with the problems in there, we deal with what is in here. We may not like the people who jump over to poke more holes in the sinking ship, but that is their decision. It's like trying to get someone arrested for a crime they did in another country... Don't flame me for this or anything because I admit I have no clue how the laws work, but I have the impression that it's the country's responsibility to deal with their crime. Maybe they help other countries, but ultimately, it's their problem.
Same thing here really. We may not condone the spamming and flaming, but it honestly isn't our problem... Are the spams ending up in here? No. How can we clean up MTGNews when we aren't allowed to be a part of it (thanks to S_S' blindness)?
This makes me sad. You're a good friend and it upsets me to hear you talk like that. I never said that Salvation "never did anything wrong", and I don't think Numen meant to say that, either. I don't have anything against News, I just can't post there because I'm banned. I resigned as admin, and lost my ability to continue as part of that site. I'm still in the community, though. This is the future of that community. Being "loyal" to MTGnews is honorable, but I think some people think it's their duty to go down with a sinking ship. I prefer to simply accept that there are two sites for the community. One is old, one is new. One starts with N, one starts with S. But in the end, we're one community, and some of us post on one "area", some post on the other "area", and some post on both.
What I'd love is for SS to have an unfortunate smelting accident and end up unable to continue destroying MTGnews, and perhaps everybody could just join together, hold hands, and sing kumbaya. I guess that won't happen, though.
Never looking back.
Agreed, both in terms of Charles not continuing to post and the idea of there being two websites for the community. But if I may say so, rancored_elf, I really can't help but agree with Charles that a lot of things I've seen in this forum have gone too far. It seems like a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that while the URL is different, the community is the same. The tolerance advocated in your post is very refreshing, especially coming from the person who seems to have lost the most in this, but a lot of other people don't see that damaging MTGNews is not the way to go.
Quote from CrAzEd MiKe »
But to think that Salvation should punish people for being stupid in 'News seems a bit dumb to me. We all came here because we were tired of the oppression, and if we start punishing people for what they do in 'News, we're following the same path. We may not condone it, we may not agree with it, and maybe we are inadvertently linked to 'News, but ultimately, it's Raa and S_S' forum, not ours. So they have to deal with the problems in there, we deal with what is in here. We may not like the people who jump over to poke more holes in the sinking ship, but that is their decision. It's like trying to get someone arrested for a crime they did in another country... Don't flame me for this or anything because I admit I have no clue how the laws work, but I have the impression that it's the country's responsibility to deal with their crime. Maybe they help other countries, but ultimately, it's their problem.
Same thing here really. We may not condone the spamming and flaming, but it honestly isn't our problem... Are the spams ending up in here? No. How can we clean up MTGNews when we aren't allowed to be a part of it (thanks to S_S' blindness)?
That makes no sense at all. Yeah, it may be Raa and S_S' forum, but it's still our community! As rancored_elf said, our community is not tied to a URL. However, what you and many others fail to realize is that such an idea works in both directions. You claim that Raa and S_S are damaging MTGNews, and yet you don't understand why someone from Salvation damaging MTGNews should be punished? Don't you understand that you're harming the people who choose to continue participating in MTGNews?
Moreover, S_S, for all of his faults, is at least taking this effort to bridge the gap. Yes, he probably is the person that's most responsible for creating the gap in the first place, but if this website was really created to provide a place that is superior to S_S' leadership, which is what the creators claim, then we should reciprocate this effort.
Highroller: We've got enough on our hands. Yes, our community is the same, but the way it's being run is different. Let's face the facts, TNK has done us all a HUGE favor by making this site, and is now keeping it running. He doesn't have the TIME to hunt down and punish the people who spam at news. He has tons to do over here, *ESPECIALLY* since it's a new site. I'm not saying we shouldn't do ANYTHING about it, but recognize that this is, indeed, their problem (in regards to the spamming) not ours. We should try and stop it, yes, but punishment isn't the way to go. Besides, if someone REALLY wanted to spam on MTGNews, chances are they won't leave a direct trail to follow over here. If I were to do it, I'd go to the library, make a dumb account, and spam away. It's not that hard to make it fairly difficult to trace...
My whole point is, yes it is a problem for which we should be *CONCERNED*, but we should not try and bring the hammer down until we've gotten things settled down here. S_S is doing the best he can in 'News to keep it together, and that's what he should be doing. He feels that this is the way to do it, so be it.
And quite frankly, even though we are the community, Raa and S_S are the owners. I'm not saying I like this, but that means that they have to take the flak for it, not somebody else. If the community owned MTGNews, then we could help as a community, but under a dictatorship, the dictator has to keep the minions in check.
Actualy when the mods were chatting on msn, we disscussed having a private word with people (some admins were included) who spammed on the news boards, hence that promted me to make my thread in the Cafe of mtgnews, while explain my reasons for not being as active and saying at the same time that we would try to stop it. I didnt threaten to ban, because A) i didnt have the right, and b) salvation is a fresh start. But what we could/can do is have a word (via pm) with the person and ask then to stop, and then if they didnt we could take action. This is not full proof but its was a friendly gesture.
Qwerty
Qwerty, I don't see how you can say that you don't have the right to ban those people. If we're really going by the "one community, two URLs" policy that rancored_elf implies, then you have full right. These people are SPAMing the community. It matters little whether they're SPAMing it here or there, if someone SPAMs our community then we do not allow them into our community. If we really are against those damaging MTGNews then why can we not apply this to all who damage MTGNews, and not just a select group of people that evoked enough anger to cause people to leave the site?
I find it hard to trust Scott, considering I was banned without warning, without violating any of the rules, or guidlines on mtgnews. I never created a link to another site, or said anything remotley derogatory towards him or anyone involved with either site, nor mentioned mtgsalvation. If he did not wish to create a rift in the community, he should not have banned or allowed to be banned a large portion of the community. The idea of banning someone for a link to another site, is rediculous, something so silly could simply be a warning, or edited by a moderator, or both. Ontop of that some people seem to be banned for the sake of banning. What good is a 'community' when the voices of the community are not allowed to be heard?
Regardless of what other people have said, if you read enough of S_S's posts and own comments, he is clearly unstable amd dishonest and rude. That alone is a good enough reason for me to want to seek another forum outside mtgnews, the fact I was banned without warning or reason is just the push out the door.
I am glad MTGSalvation was formed, and made up and running so quickly, I would like to thank the owners, and everyone who got things up and running so quickly and smoothly. Thank you to the owners, administrators and users of mtgsalvation, and I would also like to thank the creators and past mods and admins of MTGnews, I had many fun years there, thanks!
Highroller: We've got enough on our hands. Yes, our community is the same, but the way it's being run is different. Let's face the facts, TNK has done us all a HUGE favor by making this site, and is now keeping it running. He doesn't have the TIME to hunt down and punish the people who spam at news. He has tons to do over here, *ESPECIALLY* since it's a new site. I'm not saying we shouldn't do ANYTHING about it, but recognize that this is, indeed, their problem (in regards to the spamming) not ours. We should try and stop it, yes, but punishment isn't the way to go. Besides, if someone REALLY wanted to spam on MTGNews, chances are they won't leave a direct trail to follow over here. If I were to do it, I'd go to the library, make a dumb account, and spam away. It's not that hard to make it fairly difficult to trace...
My whole point is, yes it is a problem for which we should be *CONCERNED*, but we should not try and bring the hammer down until we've gotten things settled down here. S_S is doing the best he can in 'News to keep it together, and that's what he should be doing. He feels that this is the way to do it, so be it.
And quite frankly, even though we are the community, Raa and S_S are the owners. I'm not saying I like this, but that means that they have to take the flak for it, not somebody else. If the community owned MTGNews, then we could help as a community, but under a dictatorship, the dictator has to keep the minions in check.
So it's their fault people are SPAMing them? That's bull Mike. That's absolute bull. Just because you don't like the management of MTGNews is not an excuse to SPAM the hell out of them. It doesn't matter who's running the site.
Quote from Qwerty »
I will not stand by and let you say we must ban people, I stated my reason's why we wouldn’t (apart from the fact its hard to prove user ids with IPs and even then its iffy).
We could fix the problem by speaking to the individuals, when a child steals a biscuit from a cookie jar do you beat the chilld round the kitchen, no you tell the child that’s was bad and stand him in the corner (still a bit excessive).
People are upset over what has happened, because of this they may to out of character things these are forgivable,
Also we can only do damage control if MTGnews helps us control that damage.
Qwerty
Ok, obviously outright banning is rather draconian, you're right. But I don't see why at least warning said people is out of the question.
Just an honest question, Qwerty, do you really think speaking to the individuals is an effective deterrent? Moreover, what if said individuals choose to ignore you?
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I think we should make the same pledge. News and slavation share many members, we shouldn't fight. Its a good rule, too. I'm for following this example. You?
Actually, TNK could argue that S_S doesn't represent the community. Still, nipping that argument in the bud, whatever S_S represents, this sort of action is what is best for both forums.
However, if this is what is required to prevent MTGNews from becoming a complete spamfest and saving Salvation's reputation, then I guess it is something that maybe has to happen.
(ps: I couldn't find where you got the quote from, god child. could you post a link?)
Lead means that that person/side took the initiative. Seeing as Scott was the one to do so, Salvation isn't in the position to lead by example. In fact Salvation is the reason this has come into effect basically.
I would think it shouldn't need to be said as well, but I'd rather have the rule than the following said:
Maybe if Salvation gets spam attacked everyone will thank Kuberr for making people want to. Yes I've thought about spamming this place (and getting friends too as well), but that doesn't accomplish anything, just makes whichever side I'm associated with look even worse. Which is the case with Salvation. If Kuberr cares about his site's reputation, he'll do what he can to put an end to this rather then just brushing it off because "it's not his problem." That's the cheap way out and you all know it.
Last thing I'll say is this:
While Scott may not have done the best job in the past, at least he's trying now. Something Chris/Ricky can really learn from if he wants to be a good leader for his community (which I know he does).
Link to Scott's post: http://forums.mtgnews.com/showpost.php?p=2585407&postcount=24
With that said, I doubt I'll be posting here again cause frankly I don't like being associated with a site that basically condones its members spamming another site in the hopes of stealing it's members. I wish you all luck since I have many friends here and it's always nice to have another good community for those looking for an alternate/another.
~Charles
(SapphireDragon26)
EDIT:
Look above. If you're trying to tell me what Kuberr said is the first step, then you need to open your eyes.
You should stay and post, we need some more people with a less bias opinion.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Although... if what he said about not doing anything on our site that's ban-worthy, that means that peopel could go over there and threaten him!
Scott, if I meet you in a dark alley I am go to give you a very angry stare and perhaps have a few harsh words with you.
WotC, please hire me already.
Not a chance in hell. Here's why:
Glad to think that Salvation did nothing wrong.
And yes you said you don't condone it, but you also said it wasn't your problem. When your site is associated with it, it is your problem.
Please ban me now as trying to reason with members who are "Salvation only" appears to be pointless. I'll converse with the reasonable ones who go to both (or just News) over there.
Good luck.
Come to the dark side, Scott... give into your anger... :evil1:
WotC, please hire me already.
If our members were spamming any other board I would have the same stance on that as I do on MTGnews. Don't assume my position on things. I don't dislike MTGnews, I dislike Scott. I'm not going to punish people at MTGnews by leading hordes of demonic spam raiders against MTGnews. As a matter of fact any mod can tell you that we have a strict rule in place that we will not tolerate grudges againt people who still post at MTGnews or post there and here both.
And yes Charles, arguing with MTGnews zealots is pretty pointless because they seem to be blind to what they have over their heads over there and that there's a hole in their ship and it's sinking really fast. And no, if people registered here are spamming your board, it is not my problem nor my place to take care of it. You all can quit expecting us to do things we shouldn't have to do because you're discontent with the way things are there.
I'm done with this entire idiotic argument. I have things to do, alot better things to do than argue a pointless argument with a side that will never give up. The only thing MTG Salvation is to be blamed for is being a better community and website than MTGnews is right now under Scott's power, and the fact that we're drawing away from it because we're actually doing something with this place. I care about our community and have things to do besides worry about some ignorant accusations. There's a long list of things to do I need to get back to. Good day.
(Also known as Xenphire)
What abou the reasonable members who've been banned on 'news for linking to salvation, without ever being harshly pro-salvation.
Dont' give up on this forum yet, Steph.
TNK: The only reason they are "sinking" is because we aren't doing enough to help. I respect MTGnews, and don't want to see it forgotten, because of the actions of a small few. News doesn't ahve to die, and we shouldn't, as a community, want ti to die. If the point of salvation is to destroy news, then I've misunderstood something. I thought this was to be a safe-haven, where we could rebuild news. Whether we do that on the url www.mtgnews.com or www.mtgsalvation.com doesn't matter, what does is the community.
Really, because thats not what TNK has been saying, and I don't think you threatened to ban people who spam other boards.
This sounds like a good idea to me.
its a small concession. Hopefully Scott gains intellect from learning how to run a forum.
-tinker
This makes me sad. You're a good friend and it upsets me to hear you talk like that. I never said that Salvation "never did anything wrong", and I don't think Numen meant to say that, either. I don't have anything against News, I just can't post there because I'm banned. I resigned as admin, and lost my ability to continue as part of that site. I'm still in the community, though. This is the future of that community. Being "loyal" to MTGnews is honorable, but I think some people think it's their duty to go down with a sinking ship. I prefer to simply accept that there are two sites for the community. One is old, one is new. One starts with N, one starts with S. But in the end, we're one community, and some of us post on one "area", some post on the other "area", and some post on both.
What I'd love is for SS to have an unfortunate smelting accident and end up unable to continue destroying MTGnews, and perhaps everybody could just join together, hold hands, and sing kumbaya. I guess that won't happen, though.
Never looking back.
But to think that Salvation should punish people for being stupid in 'News seems a bit dumb to me. We all came here because we were tired of the oppression, and if we start punishing people for what they do in 'News, we're following the same path. We may not condone it, we may not agree with it, and maybe we are inadvertently linked to 'News, but ultimately, it's Raa and S_S' forum, not ours. So they have to deal with the problems in there, we deal with what is in here. We may not like the people who jump over to poke more holes in the sinking ship, but that is their decision. It's like trying to get someone arrested for a crime they did in another country... Don't flame me for this or anything because I admit I have no clue how the laws work, but I have the impression that it's the country's responsibility to deal with their crime. Maybe they help other countries, but ultimately, it's their problem.
Same thing here really. We may not condone the spamming and flaming, but it honestly isn't our problem... Are the spams ending up in here? No. How can we clean up MTGNews when we aren't allowed to be a part of it (thanks to S_S' blindness)?
Agreed, both in terms of Charles not continuing to post and the idea of there being two websites for the community. But if I may say so, rancored_elf, I really can't help but agree with Charles that a lot of things I've seen in this forum have gone too far. It seems like a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that while the URL is different, the community is the same. The tolerance advocated in your post is very refreshing, especially coming from the person who seems to have lost the most in this, but a lot of other people don't see that damaging MTGNews is not the way to go.
That makes no sense at all. Yeah, it may be Raa and S_S' forum, but it's still our community! As rancored_elf said, our community is not tied to a URL. However, what you and many others fail to realize is that such an idea works in both directions. You claim that Raa and S_S are damaging MTGNews, and yet you don't understand why someone from Salvation damaging MTGNews should be punished? Don't you understand that you're harming the people who choose to continue participating in MTGNews?
Moreover, S_S, for all of his faults, is at least taking this effort to bridge the gap. Yes, he probably is the person that's most responsible for creating the gap in the first place, but if this website was really created to provide a place that is superior to S_S' leadership, which is what the creators claim, then we should reciprocate this effort.
My whole point is, yes it is a problem for which we should be *CONCERNED*, but we should not try and bring the hammer down until we've gotten things settled down here. S_S is doing the best he can in 'News to keep it together, and that's what he should be doing. He feels that this is the way to do it, so be it.
And quite frankly, even though we are the community, Raa and S_S are the owners. I'm not saying I like this, but that means that they have to take the flak for it, not somebody else. If the community owned MTGNews, then we could help as a community, but under a dictatorship, the dictator has to keep the minions in check.
Qwerty, I don't see how you can say that you don't have the right to ban those people. If we're really going by the "one community, two URLs" policy that rancored_elf implies, then you have full right. These people are SPAMing the community. It matters little whether they're SPAMing it here or there, if someone SPAMs our community then we do not allow them into our community. If we really are against those damaging MTGNews then why can we not apply this to all who damage MTGNews, and not just a select group of people that evoked enough anger to cause people to leave the site?
Regardless of what other people have said, if you read enough of S_S's posts and own comments, he is clearly unstable amd dishonest and rude. That alone is a good enough reason for me to want to seek another forum outside mtgnews, the fact I was banned without warning or reason is just the push out the door.
I am glad MTGSalvation was formed, and made up and running so quickly, I would like to thank the owners, and everyone who got things up and running so quickly and smoothly. Thank you to the owners, administrators and users of mtgsalvation, and I would also like to thank the creators and past mods and admins of MTGnews, I had many fun years there, thanks!
So it's their fault people are SPAMing them? That's bull Mike. That's absolute bull. Just because you don't like the management of MTGNews is not an excuse to SPAM the hell out of them. It doesn't matter who's running the site.
Ok, obviously outright banning is rather draconian, you're right. But I don't see why at least warning said people is out of the question.
Just an honest question, Qwerty, do you really think speaking to the individuals is an effective deterrent? Moreover, what if said individuals choose to ignore you?
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread