Allow me to break it down for you, and then I'm getting off, sicne I have a basketball game to watch.
You do not like S_S banning people for arbitrary reasons.
People came to this site, with promise that that wouldn't happen to them.
S_S comes here, and you call for his arbitrary banning.
He hasn't even posted. Further, as I said, it would lower you to his level to do what he did. Take the higher road, m'kay?
Except for that it's not arbitrary.
Again, 9/11 comparison works here. Didn't you hate Al quaeda?
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I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
I've had a quick PM conversation with Subterranean Spirit, and I'm still waiting for a response, which I'm sure I'll get eventually.
Quote from Senori »
Quote from Subterranean Spirit »
Quote from Senori »
Quote from Subterranean Spirit »
Quote from Senori »
Quote from Subterranean Spirit »
Quote from Senori »
If I may, why are you specifically editting out any "this came from MTG Salvation" from posts in the Rumor Mill? Do you allow "this came from StarCityGames.com", or "this came from *XYZ.com*"?
*I* am not. I have never once editted a post in the rumor mill that creditted any site for information. My mods or admins might have, but in the rumor mill, I'm clean.
I didn't censor a credit. I censored an ad. You can give a name for credit, but linking to it is not okay. There is a difference. If you post an ad, I don't remove the link part, I remove all of it.
Scott
If I may, why not just remove the URL? Surely it isn't that much of a bother, plus, it would reduce the allegations of "S_S is censoring us", or "You really should let us credit people".
Frankly, if people can't follow the rules, then there should be punishment. If you can't do it the right way, I'm not going to "fix" it for you. People know what they're doing when they do it, as do I.
Scott
Then why not simply Warn them, instead of deleting the URL, and punishing the website (and the credibility of MTGnews) for the actions of the poster?
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
that is an incredibly fine and trivial distinction to say forums.mtgsalvation.com is ok but forums.mtgsalvation.com is not. It's just a technicality, they both have the same purpose/function.
People have often linked to wizards.com forums before when revealing new info and that never caused a problem. Crediting a url is not an ad, it's how you credit websites (see anything about citing web-sources in bibliographies).
Plastik: I have to be objective and impartial as an admin. I can't just ban him for registering. If he assaults our forums with spam and the like, then he would be deserving of a ban, but right now, no. I'm not going to be like him.
give credit where credit is due, I think the MTGnews of yore made a hall of shame for places taking things that didnot belong to them and claming credit ,,
I agree. He shouldn't be banned if he follows all the rules. I know its hard to be impartial, but it would be almost as bad to ban him as it was for him banning the other people.
I agree. He shouldn't be banned if he follows all the rules. I know its hard to be impartial, but it would be almost as bad to ban him as it was for him banning the other people.
Agreed. It would be bad business on our end to ban him for his actions on another site. That would give him full right to ban every member of this site for our comments here. If we were banned there for something we said here, and yet did nothing there to warrant it, we would complain about it being unfair if we got banned there. So it wouldn't be right.
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New Rules come out for 1999 6th Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO PORTAL! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for 2010 Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO YU-GI-OH! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for *Reserved for something in 2020* "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO *currently "simple" game by the more "skilled" players*! THE GAME IS..." etc.
in it, and I'm waiting to see how long it takes them to edit it. I posted it in a horribly badly credited rumour, although since my posting Skabatou DID give it proper refference.
While I believe that is unjust, I'd just like to say ...
HAH! MODS are too DUMB to realize what
agboctdoemftgghsiajlkvlamtnioopnq.rnsettufvowrxryez says. C'mon, it's not even CODED. Just HIDDEN. I mean, they deleted your post without editing my ad.
As a formaility, someone should systematically take screen shots of each thread with a card "confirmed by R_E" as soon as you see it. Then, if any changes are made to it, especially by an admin, take another if the source is then left out. That may help later...
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"I never allowed my schooling to interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
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The war is for oil..its one of the ways to make this huge operation worthwhile. People care more about lower gas prices than iraqis anyway.
What others say about me:
Quote from JayC »
You're obviously an ignorant conservative. I blame your hill-billy Mom and Dad.
I don't spam. Ever. Not in retaliation, not for any reason. Yeah, I watch what's going on here, but will obviously be a less-the-frequent poster.
I also don't put links in my sig. Nothing mentioning where I am from, nothing to advertise an outside site. It's rude, IMHO. If you want to be on one site, be on that site. If you want to be on another, go to another. just don't use one as an excuse to advertise on the other. That's it.
Trust me - you'll have no reason to ban me for my behavior here.
Scott
Quote from Sakabatou »
Plastik: I have to be objective and impartial as an admin. I can't just ban him for registering. If he assaults our forums with spam and the like, then he would be deserving of a ban, but right now, no. I'm not going to be like him.
But, to be fair, Scott, Sakabatou ONLY SAID that the cards were from a different forum called MTG Salvation - no link or URL. What YOU allowed was plagiarism. Which, my friend, is both immoral and illegal. Rude, to say the least.
If you want to allow information theft, then don't complain about spam.
Trust me - you'll have no reason to ban me for my behavior here.
Scott
I'm sure I can believe this. As much as everyone here (including myself at times) makes him out to be satan in jest, I'm positive that he's at least professional enough to not do as many members from here have done there, such as spam hate messages and such. Even if it was funny at first, guys, it's very old by now. I know some of the newer revolutionists have just begun, but still. Anyways, SS, I don't find it rude to put links in your signature to another site. If you are making posts going "go here" without permission from the site admins, then yes, I agree with the censorship. If it's in your banner, even saying "Check this out!" then there should be no problem. They don't get pissed at McDonald's if I walk in wearing a Taco Bell shirt, but they will get pissed if I stand up screaming "YOUR FOOD SUCKS! TACOS RULE!" over and over. I work a website as well, and I've had some time dealing with situations like these, and I do not ever get offended, even if they put rivals like that. As long as they don't go making posts about "rivals", which is bad for business, as you would agree.
However, since you are here, you claim that you do not edit out things without links, and yet Sak's post was deleted? Why is this? If its your mods doing it, then would it be too much trouble to ask them to stop and clarify your intentions? I believe that it would benifit both if we stop the fighting so much, and stick to mainly poking fun at each other, as you seem to be doing with your new "user title" (which I believe is a bit arrogant, but you probably find it funny, as I find my new sig funny). We give credit for things that might hit MTGNews before here, although I've yet to see something there and it not be here, but we do. Why are they not allowed to credit us?
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New Rules come out for 1999 6th Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO PORTAL! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for 2010 Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO YU-GI-OH! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for *Reserved for something in 2020* "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO *currently "simple" game by the more "skilled" players*! THE GAME IS..." etc.
#1 - You can't steal information that doesn't belong to you. Cards and card text are property of WotC and no one else.
#2 - I'm not even saying I am stealing information from here. I do have my own sources, you know.
#3 - I have never deleted just "MTG Salvation". Either a URL or link was there. That is a no-no.
But you know what, I'm going to do two things at once. Why I'm doing this, I don't know, but I'm going to give you guys some information I haven't even given news yet. Chalk this one up for your rumor mill, though I won't post it there myself.
New card in Betrayers that will be rare and a functional reprint of Hurkyl's Recall. I'd tell you the name, but my source did not release that information to me.
Consider this my olive branch.
Scott
Quote from ness_the_mess »
But, to be fair, Scott, Sakabatou ONLY SAID that the cards were from a different forum called MTG Salvation - no link or URL. What YOU allowed was plagiarism. Which, my friend, is both immoral and illegal. Rude, to say the least.
If you want to allow information theft, then don't complain about spam.
While I appreciate the "rumor", and appreciate the gesture as well, what I don't understand is this. If your number one is your response to why credit should not be allowed to be given, then would it be fair if we started not giving credit here and claiming it as our own? Other sites do that, and they fall. MTGnews has always been a large portrayer of giving credit where its due, and while you can't claim it as "yours", if I gave info to MTGnews, and someone else took the info and gave it to their site, they'd credit MTGnews, not me, nor my own sources. It doesn't go down the chain, because they never heard from those on the chain, only the part they got it from.
Again, if you do not delete the things without links or urls, then why are some still being deleted? You've stated that your mods may be doing it; well then is there any way to come to the agreement that they not do so? I'm sure it will be much appreciated. And of course some will probably still go do things stupid at MTGnews, but then that's because we, just like you, cannot control the masses, even if we constantly request that no flame-spam happens. I wouldn't hold it against MTGnews if some people came here doing it, just as we've never held it against MiseTings as a whole over the stupid things that their cult, err, members have done. Though I have heard they are encouraged, but I do not know the truth in this... Arrr... I digress. Anyways, if someone does credit us, I don't believe they should be changed. I agree with the URL part though. Maybe if your mods didn't delete the posts since you aren't the one doing it?
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New Rules come out for 1999 6th Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO PORTAL! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for 2010 Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO YU-GI-OH! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for *Reserved for something in 2020* "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO *currently "simple" game by the more "skilled" players*! THE GAME IS..." etc.
I'm willing to believe that you didn't delete the post, but I read the words myself, and there was no link or url. I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you at least talked to your mods about it, and I'm sure you have.
I don't know who you are, and in the past I've gotten some bad vibes from R_E, but I still think that you haven't been entirely in the right. I'm glad that at least you can recognize this site as its own entity and respect that.
Still, in the Rumour Mill at MTGNews, when threads that are started which mearly say 'r_e confirmed' and 'from MTG Salvation' are edited, even if not by you, it is not right. This IS plagiarism, if not information theft. Salvation IS the source, and the authors ARE citing it, but either you or your mods are editing this. I hope you have domain over your own 'staff,' and really, we would all appreciate if you rectified the situation (hopefully by creating a CLEAR policy on reffering to sources).
EDIT: I didn't see Cold Logic's post. Basically the same.
n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own
So....did you write the card? Did you or anyone on this site create the original text for these cards? If you make fake ones, then sure, it's plagiarism. Real ones, though, were written by WotC R&D.
Furthermore, I'm still not telling you I got any information from this site. If you think I did, fine - it really doesn't matter.
Even furthermore, can someone please tell me why I should provide ANY even slight recognition of this site after your owner came in and cursed on our front page comments? It is obvious he has no respect for us - why should we have any for him?
They said it, it's theres.
If i said bakalaka. And then you said that YOU said bakalaka just then, that would be plagiarizm.
Furthermore, I don't think it is appropriate for you to come to these forums and start telling us that you "didn't not say something so there-fore i didn't not un-say it."
That's just rude and childish.
Because it's common courtesy, that's why. And because he could have done a lot worse. In fact, I'm fairly certain he could have merged every post, deleted the metapost, and banned every member, effectively destroying your site. But he didn't. So don't do this to us.
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I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
Depends on how literal you want to be on write. Whomever typed out the card into the box wrote it, really.
But thats a stupid point. A more realistic one is that your site were taking the words as if they were their own. Anyway, I NEVER said you took information from this site. I said members of your site did, cited us, and then you REMOVED the citation.
In responce to your 'even furthermore' - if you don't want to recognize this site, don't post here, mmkay?
I'm sure one of many x-staff at MTGNews would be glad to talk about lack of respect.
I can't say that I condone whatever act to which you are reffering, but one evil act does NOT deserve another. If you believe in the Just War theory, then obviously we are justified in responding to your responce. Do not try to use revenge as a logical ally. Or threat.
EDIT: Spelling. Again, I was beaten to the chase.
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Except for that it's not arbitrary.
Again, 9/11 comparison works here. Didn't you hate Al quaeda?
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
There really is no more to say.
People have often linked to wizards.com forums before when revealing new info and that never caused a problem. Crediting a url is not an ad, it's how you credit websites (see anything about citing web-sources in bibliographies).
MTGS Retired Administrator
This is a sig. Yes it is.
I vote hall of shame on front page
kick them where it hurts
Agreed. It would be bad business on our end to ban him for his actions on another site. That would give him full right to ban every member of this site for our comments here. If we were banned there for something we said here, and yet did nothing there to warrant it, we would complain about it being unfair if we got banned there. So it wouldn't be right.
"agboctdoemftgghsiajlkvlamtnioopnq.rnsettufvowrxryez"
in it, and I'm waiting to see how long it takes them to edit it. I posted it in a horribly badly credited rumour, although since my posting Skabatou DID give it proper refference.
MTGS Retired Administrator
This is a sig. Yes it is.
HAH! MODS are too DUMB to realize what
agboctdoemftgghsiajlkvlamtnioopnq.rnsettufvowrxryez says. C'mon, it's not even CODED. Just HIDDEN. I mean, they deleted your post without editing my ad.
What others say about me:
Sven Dostei
Unofficial Official arrogant teenage elitist of The Ivory Tower
I also don't put links in my sig. Nothing mentioning where I am from, nothing to advertise an outside site. It's rude, IMHO. If you want to be on one site, be on that site. If you want to be on another, go to another. just don't use one as an excuse to advertise on the other. That's it.
Trust me - you'll have no reason to ban me for my behavior here.
Scott
If you want to allow information theft, then don't complain about spam.
I'm sure I can believe this. As much as everyone here (including myself at times) makes him out to be satan in jest, I'm positive that he's at least professional enough to not do as many members from here have done there, such as spam hate messages and such. Even if it was funny at first, guys, it's very old by now. I know some of the newer revolutionists have just begun, but still. Anyways, SS, I don't find it rude to put links in your signature to another site. If you are making posts going "go here" without permission from the site admins, then yes, I agree with the censorship. If it's in your banner, even saying "Check this out!" then there should be no problem. They don't get pissed at McDonald's if I walk in wearing a Taco Bell shirt, but they will get pissed if I stand up screaming "YOUR FOOD SUCKS! TACOS RULE!" over and over. I work a website as well, and I've had some time dealing with situations like these, and I do not ever get offended, even if they put rivals like that. As long as they don't go making posts about "rivals", which is bad for business, as you would agree.
However, since you are here, you claim that you do not edit out things without links, and yet Sak's post was deleted? Why is this? If its your mods doing it, then would it be too much trouble to ask them to stop and clarify your intentions? I believe that it would benifit both if we stop the fighting so much, and stick to mainly poking fun at each other, as you seem to be doing with your new "user title" (which I believe is a bit arrogant, but you probably find it funny, as I find my new sig funny). We give credit for things that might hit MTGNews before here, although I've yet to see something there and it not be here, but we do. Why are they not allowed to credit us?
#2 - I'm not even saying I am stealing information from here. I do have my own sources, you know.
#3 - I have never deleted just "MTG Salvation". Either a URL or link was there. That is a no-no.
But you know what, I'm going to do two things at once. Why I'm doing this, I don't know, but I'm going to give you guys some information I haven't even given news yet. Chalk this one up for your rumor mill, though I won't post it there myself.
New card in Betrayers that will be rare and a functional reprint of Hurkyl's Recall. I'd tell you the name, but my source did not release that information to me.
Consider this my olive branch.
Scott
Again, if you do not delete the things without links or urls, then why are some still being deleted? You've stated that your mods may be doing it; well then is there any way to come to the agreement that they not do so? I'm sure it will be much appreciated. And of course some will probably still go do things stupid at MTGnews, but then that's because we, just like you, cannot control the masses, even if we constantly request that no flame-spam happens. I wouldn't hold it against MTGnews if some people came here doing it, just as we've never held it against MiseTings as a whole over the stupid things that their cult, err, members have done. Though I have heard they are encouraged, but I do not know the truth in this... Arrr... I digress. Anyways, if someone does credit us, I don't believe they should be changed. I agree with the URL part though. Maybe if your mods didn't delete the posts since you aren't the one doing it?
I don't know who you are, and in the past I've gotten some bad vibes from R_E, but I still think that you haven't been entirely in the right. I'm glad that at least you can recognize this site as its own entity and respect that.
Still, in the Rumour Mill at MTGNews, when threads that are started which mearly say 'r_e confirmed' and 'from MTG Salvation' are edited, even if not by you, it is not right. This IS plagiarism, if not information theft. Salvation IS the source, and the authors ARE citing it, but either you or your mods are editing this. I hope you have domain over your own 'staff,' and really, we would all appreciate if you rectified the situation (hopefully by creating a CLEAR policy on reffering to sources).
EDIT: I didn't see Cold Logic's post. Basically the same.
Plagiarism:
n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own
So....did you write the card? Did you or anyone on this site create the original text for these cards? If you make fake ones, then sure, it's plagiarism. Real ones, though, were written by WotC R&D.
Furthermore, I'm still not telling you I got any information from this site. If you think I did, fine - it really doesn't matter.
Even furthermore, can someone please tell me why I should provide ANY even slight recognition of this site after your owner came in and cursed on our front page comments? It is obvious he has no respect for us - why should we have any for him?
They said it, it's theres.
If i said bakalaka. And then you said that YOU said bakalaka just then, that would be plagiarizm.
Furthermore, I don't think it is appropriate for you to come to these forums and start telling us that you "didn't not say something so there-fore i didn't not un-say it."
That's just rude and childish.
Because it's common courtesy, that's why. And because he could have done a lot worse. In fact, I'm fairly certain he could have merged every post, deleted the metapost, and banned every member, effectively destroying your site. But he didn't. So don't do this to us.
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
But thats a stupid point. A more realistic one is that your site were taking the words as if they were their own. Anyway, I NEVER said you took information from this site. I said members of your site did, cited us, and then you REMOVED the citation.
In responce to your 'even furthermore' - if you don't want to recognize this site, don't post here, mmkay?
I'm sure one of many x-staff at MTGNews would be glad to talk about lack of respect.
I can't say that I condone whatever act to which you are reffering, but one evil act does NOT deserve another. If you believe in the Just War theory, then obviously we are justified in responding to your responce. Do not try to use revenge as a logical ally. Or threat.
EDIT: Spelling. Again, I was beaten to the chase.