The initial rule set for games 1 and 2 has a few problems, which are basically due to the changes made to adapt it to forum play with a moderator. Therefore, it might be a good idea to start future games with a rule set designed for electronic play with a moderator. A good basis is the Agora initial rule set. I've made a few changes, in italics, to adapt it to the forum. The changes are all minor, mostly changing "distribute to all players" to "post on the forum" in all the places it occurs.
Immutable Rules
101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect,
in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the
Initial Set are in effect at the beginning of the first game.
The Initial Set consists of rules 101-116 (immutable) and
201-219 (mutable).
102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the
200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted
(that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may
be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules
in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.
103. At any time, each player shall be either a Voter or the Moderator; no
player may simultaneously be a Voter and a Moderator. At any time
there shall be exactly one Moderator. The term "player" in the rules
shall specifically include both the Voters and the Moderator.
104. The Moderator for the first game shall be [Insert Name Here].
105. A rule change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal,
or amendment of a mutable rule; or (2) the transmutation
of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.
(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new
rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable,
may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are
mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be
transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)
106. All rule changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on.
They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number
of votes and quorum is achieved.
107. Any proposed rule change must be posted in the forum before it is voted on. If adopted, it
must guide play in the form in which it was voted on.
108. No rule change may take effect earlier than the moment of the
completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording
explicitly states otherwise. No rule change may have retroactive
application.
109. The Moderator shall give each proposed rule change a number for
reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule change
proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive
integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.
If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the
proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it
receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it.
110. Rule changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules
may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among votes
legally cast. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be
stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.
111. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the
immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be
entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to
transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable
rule.
112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered
from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The
magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed,
and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be
enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.
113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than
continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than
losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.
114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of
rule changes must never become completely inpermissible.
115. Rule changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply
rule changes are as permissible as other rule changes. Even
rule changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible.
No rule change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of
the self-reference or self-application of a rule.
116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted
and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules,
which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or
implicitly permits it.
Mutable rules
201. Quorum for a proposed rule change is defined to be 20% of Voters
at the beginning of the prescribed voting period for that proposal
202. All players begin with 0 points. Points may not be gained, lost, or
traded except as explicitly stated in the rules.
203. The winner is the first Voter to achieve 100 (positive) points.
If more than one Voter achieves this condition simultaneously, all
such Voters win. The game ends when a player or players win.
204. A proposal shall be made by submitting it to the Moderator by private message. Only
Voters may make proposals. As soon as possible after receiving
a proposal, the Moderator shall assign the proposal a number and post it to the forum.
205. The prescribed voting period for a proposal shall be one week,
beginning at the time the Moderator posts it to the forum.
206. Each Voter has exactly one vote. The Moderator may not vote.
207. Voters may vote either for or against any proposal within its
prescribed voting period. In order to be legally cast, the vote
must be made on the forum thread containing the proposal by the end of the prescribed voting
period. Any Voter who does not legally vote within
the prescribed voting period shall be deemed to have abstained.
208. At the end of the prescribed voting period on a proposal, the
Moderator shall tally all votes legally cast on that proposal. If
the Moderator's consent may be required for a proposal to be adopted,
then the Moderator should indicate at that time whether or not e gives
eir consent. If the Moderator does not explicitly indicate that e
refuses to consent to the proposal, it shall be assumed that e
consents.
209. The required votes for a proposal to be adopted is as follows:
For a proposal which would directly alter the actions which are
required of and/or forbidden to the Moderator:
a) a simple majority of all votes legally cast, if the
Moderator consents;
b) a 2/3 majority of all votes legally cast, if the
Moderator does not consent;
For all other proposals, a simple majority of votes legally cast.
This rule defers to rules which set the required number of votes
for proposals which propose to transmute a rule.
210. An adopted rule change takes full effect at the moment of the
completion of the vote that adopted it.
211 Voters who voted against proposals which are adopted receive 10 points apiece.
Players whose proposals are adopted shall receive
a random number of points in the range 1-10 inclusive. Players
whose proposals are not adopted shall lose 10 points.
212. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if
two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule
with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.
If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself
that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence
over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall
supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.
If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or
defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.
213. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the
interpretation or application of a rule, then a player may invoke
judgement by submitting a statement for judgement to the Moderator.
Disagreement, for the purposes of this rule, may be created by the
insistence of any player. When judgement is invoked, the Moderator
must, as soon as possible, select a Judge as described in the Rules.
The Moderator must then post the statement to be judged, along
with the identity of the Judge, on the forum.
214. If judgement was invoked by a Voter, then the first Judge to be
selected to judge that statement shall be the Moderator. If judgement
was invoked by the Moderator, the first Judge to be selected shall be
a randomly selected Voter.
In all cases, if a Judge beyond the first must be selected to judge
a statement, it shall be a randomly selected Voter. The Voter thus
selected may not be the player most recently selected as Judge for
that statement, nor may e be the player who invoked judgement.
215. After the Moderator has distributed the statement to be judged and the
identity of the Judge, the Judge has one week in which to deliver a
legal judgement. If the Judge fails to deliver a judgement within
this time, e is penalized 10 points and a new Judge is selected.
A judgement is delivered by posting that judgement on the forum.
216. A legal judgement is either TRUE, FALSE, or UNDECIDED. The
judgement may be accompanied by reasons and arguments, but such
reasons and arguments form no part of the judgement itself. [deleted]
217. All judgements must be in accordance with the rules; however, if
the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the statement
to be judged, then the Judge shall consider game custom and the
spirit of the game before applying other standards.
218. In addition to duties which may be listed elsewhere in the rules,
the Moderator shall have the following duties:
-register new players
-maintain a list of all players and their current scores, and post it on the forum
-maintain a complete list of the current rules, and post it on the forum
-make a random determination whenever such determination is
required by the rules.
219. If a player believes that the rules are such that further play is
impossible, or that the legality of a move cannot be determined with
finality, or that a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the
player may invoke judgement on a statement to that effect. If the
statement is judged TRUE, then the player who invoked judgement
shall be declared the winner of that game, and the game ends, with
no provision for starting another game.
This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the
winner of the game.
One additional rule that the moderators might want to include, to simplify their lives:
220. From the time a player submits a valid proposal to the time that proposal's voting period ends, that player may not submit additional proposals. There can only be one active proposal for each player. [Since there are no turns, this keeps a few players from swamping the moderator with proposals. It will probably be modified or repealed once the initial flurry stops.]
I'm not sure that you could rename the Speaker to the Moderator. That would go against the Meta-Rules, since only the first moderator posts the initial rule-set, so the Moderator couldn't change.
I'm not sure that you could rename the Speaker to the Moderator. That would go against the Meta-Rules, since only the first moderator posts the initial rule-set, so the Moderator couldn't change.
I removed the provision for changing Speaker and restarting when someone wins. So even if the moderator can't change, it shouldn't be a problem. If being able to change Speaker is really a desirable thing, I can change it back, or the moderators can change the meta-rules so that their definition of "moderator" doesn't override the game's.
The one problem I see with the rule set is that it doesn't define who a Voter is.
Rule 103 implies that the Voters are all players except the Moderator. The term "player" isn't defined anywhere, so it has its normal meaning. That's good because it allows people to drop the game without a special rule.
Rule 103 implies that the Voters are all players except the Moderator. The term "player" isn't defined anywhere, so it has its normal meaning. That's good because it allows people to drop the game without a special rule.
It's also bad because it allows anyone to just join in the game and it makes it sufficiently hard to keep track over people that are playing. Not defining the word "player" is what allows anyone to come and go at any time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
It's also bad because it allows anyone to just join in the game and it makes it sufficiently hard to keep track over people that are playing. Not defining the word "player" is what allows anyone to come and go at any time.
Joining is regulated by rule 208, which puts the Moderator in charge of registering new players. That's sufficient to hold things together, at least until someone makes a proposal to regulate it further. There's no need for the starting rule set to be perfect as long as it works.
I'd like to see some process allowing for changes to proposals after they're PMed to the moderator. I think the addition of a "non-voting" debate period where changes can be recommended has done wonders for Nomic #1.
I know this is something that could be added in as a mutable rule afterwards, but I'd really like it to be in an initial ruleset.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
I'd like to see some process allowing for changes to proposals after they're PMed to the moderator. I think the addition of a "non-voting" debate period where changes can be recommended has done wonders for Nomic #1.
I know this is something that could be added in as a mutable rule afterwards, but I'd really like it to be in an initial ruleset.
I'm seriously considering having my first proposal be a rule allowing proposals to be withdrawn in the first 3 days of voting.
Immutable Rules
101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect,
in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the
Initial Set are in effect at the beginning of the first game.
The Initial Set consists of rules 101-116 (immutable) and
201-219 (mutable).
102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the
200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted
(that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may
be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules
in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.
103. At any time, each player shall be either a Voter or the Moderator; no
player may simultaneously be a Voter and a Moderator. At any time
there shall be exactly one Moderator. The term "player" in the rules
shall specifically include both the Voters and the Moderator.
104. The Moderator for the first game shall be [Insert Name Here].
105. A rule change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal,
or amendment of a mutable rule; or (2) the transmutation
of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.
(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new
rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable,
may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are
mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be
transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)
106. All rule changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on.
They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number
of votes and quorum is achieved.
107. Any proposed rule change must be posted in the forum before it is voted on. If adopted, it
must guide play in the form in which it was voted on.
108. No rule change may take effect earlier than the moment of the
completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording
explicitly states otherwise. No rule change may have retroactive
application.
109. The Moderator shall give each proposed rule change a number for
reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule change
proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive
integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.
If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the
proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it
receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it.
110. Rule changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules
may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among votes
legally cast. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be
stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.
111. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the
immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be
entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to
transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable
rule.
112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered
from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The
magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed,
and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be
enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.
113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than
continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than
losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.
114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of
rule changes must never become completely inpermissible.
115. Rule changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply
rule changes are as permissible as other rule changes. Even
rule changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible.
No rule change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of
the self-reference or self-application of a rule.
116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted
and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules,
which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or
implicitly permits it.
Mutable rules
201. Quorum for a proposed rule change is defined to be 20% of Voters
at the beginning of the prescribed voting period for that proposal
202. All players begin with 0 points. Points may not be gained, lost, or
traded except as explicitly stated in the rules.
203. The winner is the first Voter to achieve 100 (positive) points.
If more than one Voter achieves this condition simultaneously, all
such Voters win.
The game ends when a player or players win.
204. A proposal shall be made by submitting it to the Moderator by private message. Only
Voters may make proposals. As soon as possible after receiving
a proposal, the Moderator shall assign the proposal a number and
post it to the forum.
205. The prescribed voting period for a proposal shall be one week,
beginning at the time the Moderator posts it to the forum.
206. Each Voter has exactly one vote. The Moderator may not vote.
207. Voters may vote either for or against any proposal within its
prescribed voting period. In order to be legally cast, the vote
must be made on the forum thread containing the proposal by the end of the prescribed voting
period. Any Voter who does not legally vote within
the prescribed voting period shall be deemed to have abstained.
208. At the end of the prescribed voting period on a proposal, the
Moderator shall tally all votes legally cast on that proposal. If
the Moderator's consent may be required for a proposal to be adopted,
then the Moderator should indicate at that time whether or not e gives
eir consent. If the Moderator does not explicitly indicate that e
refuses to consent to the proposal, it shall be assumed that e
consents.
209. The required votes for a proposal to be adopted is as follows:
For a proposal which would directly alter the actions which are
required of and/or forbidden to the Moderator:
a) a simple majority of all votes legally cast, if the
Moderator consents;
b) a 2/3 majority of all votes legally cast, if the
Moderator does not consent;
For all other proposals, a simple majority of votes legally cast.
This rule defers to rules which set the required number of votes
for proposals which propose to transmute a rule.
210. An adopted rule change takes full effect at the moment of the
completion of the vote that adopted it.
211 Voters who voted against proposals which are adopted receive 10 points apiece.
Players whose proposals are adopted shall receive
a random number of points in the range 1-10 inclusive. Players
whose proposals are not adopted shall lose 10 points.
212. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if
two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule
with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.
If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself
that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence
over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall
supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.
If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or
defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.
213. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the
interpretation or application of a rule, then a player may invoke
judgement by submitting a statement for judgement to the Moderator.
Disagreement, for the purposes of this rule, may be created by the
insistence of any player. When judgement is invoked, the Moderator
must, as soon as possible, select a Judge as described in the Rules.
The Moderator must then post the statement to be judged, along
with the identity of the Judge, on the forum.
214. If judgement was invoked by a Voter, then the first Judge to be
selected to judge that statement shall be the Moderator. If judgement
was invoked by the Moderator, the first Judge to be selected shall be
a randomly selected Voter.
In all cases, if a Judge beyond the first must be selected to judge
a statement, it shall be a randomly selected Voter. The Voter thus
selected may not be the player most recently selected as Judge for
that statement, nor may e be the player who invoked judgement.
215. After the Moderator has distributed the statement to be judged and the
identity of the Judge, the Judge has one week in which to deliver a
legal judgement. If the Judge fails to deliver a judgement within
this time, e is penalized 10 points and a new Judge is selected.
A judgement is delivered by posting that judgement on the forum.
216. A legal judgement is either TRUE, FALSE, or UNDECIDED. The
judgement may be accompanied by reasons and arguments, but such
reasons and arguments form no part of the judgement itself. [deleted]
217. All judgements must be in accordance with the rules; however, if
the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the statement
to be judged, then the Judge shall consider game custom and the
spirit of the game before applying other standards.
218. In addition to duties which may be listed elsewhere in the rules,
the Moderator shall have the following duties:
-register new players
-maintain a list of all players and their current scores, and
post it on the forum
-maintain a complete list of the current rules, and post it on the forum
-make a random determination whenever such determination is
required by the rules.
219. If a player believes that the rules are such that further play is
impossible, or that the legality of a move cannot be determined with
finality, or that a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the
player may invoke judgement on a statement to that effect. If the
statement is judged TRUE, then the player who invoked judgement
shall be declared the winner of that game, and the game ends, with
no provision for starting another game.
This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the
winner of the game.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
220. From the time a player submits a valid proposal to the time that proposal's voting period ends, that player may not submit additional proposals. There can only be one active proposal for each player. [Since there are no turns, this keeps a few players from swamping the moderator with proposals. It will probably be modified or repealed once the initial flurry stops.]
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
I removed the provision for changing Speaker and restarting when someone wins. So even if the moderator can't change, it shouldn't be a problem. If being able to change Speaker is really a desirable thing, I can change it back, or the moderators can change the meta-rules so that their definition of "moderator" doesn't override the game's.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I would just say to keep it named the Speaker, not the Moderator.
Avatar by Grey. Banner by spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Rule 103 implies that the Voters are all players except the Moderator. The term "player" isn't defined anywhere, so it has its normal meaning. That's good because it allows people to drop the game without a special rule.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
It's also bad because it allows anyone to just join in the game and it makes it sufficiently hard to keep track over people that are playing. Not defining the word "player" is what allows anyone to come and go at any time.
Joining is regulated by rule 208, which puts the Moderator in charge of registering new players. That's sufficient to hold things together, at least until someone makes a proposal to regulate it further. There's no need for the starting rule set to be perfect as long as it works.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I know this is something that could be added in as a mutable rule afterwards, but I'd really like it to be in an initial ruleset.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I'm seriously considering having my first proposal be a rule allowing proposals to be withdrawn in the first 3 days of voting.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.