I have been play testing this deck a lot on MODO, and I liked the spells, but I was never really happy with the creature mix. I have tried all sorts of combinations. I tried a list with Plated Geopede, I tried a list with Kargan Dragonlord, and they all felt too slow, especially in the 1/3 of the hands that didn't feature a one-drop. I wasn't putting enough pressure on the control decks; my turn 2 plays were running into mana leaks, and I didn't have enough 1-drops to reliably cast one on turn one. Finally, the build I settled on is one that was used earlier in the season, with 12 one-drops, and Hell's Thunder. Twelve one-drops give me roughly an 80% chance of having one in my opening hand (up from 66%). I like the Hell's Thunder; it is only weak against Faeries, and I side it out in that matchup. However, it is better than Ball Lightning or Ram-Gang against everyone with Mountains, which I was expecting to see a decent amount of. I went 5-2 at the PTQ this weekend with this build:
Overall the day didn't go too badly. I only won one of my seven die rolls, which hurt my matchups a little bit (against both of the Valakut decks I believe that I would have won if I had been on the play, since both times they killed me I was holding more than lethal damage in my hand). However, I was lucky that two of the guys I played against struggled with their mana, so I guess my luck evened out for the day. My rounds went like this:
U/B Poison – Won 2-0
W/R/b Midrange – Won 2-0
R/G Valakut – Lost 1-2
Naya – Won 2-1
Faeries – Won 2-1
R/G Valakut – Lost 1-2 (I stayed in at this point since top 16 got ½ a box)
Faeries – Won 2-0
How do people feel about maindecking 3-4 copies of Koth? It seems like an excellent option against control, and could serve to give the deck some nice midgame stability, which it sorely lacks. I know I've played a few control matchups where I may have made an unwise decision to keep a bad hand, topdecked a koth, then went to town.
i played
r1 architect deck 2-0
r2 wargate omen 2-0
r3 naya 2-0
r4 Elves 2-1
r5 Valakut R/G 2-0
r6 Valakut R/G 2-1
r7 draw
r8 draw
top 8 naya 1-2
How did you feel about Boggart Ram Gang? Did it ever feel too slow/like it wasn't performing as well as you wanted it to? Same question to all of the card choices. Which ones were great and you would definitely keep, and which felt the opposite? I ask this because I am looking to make that almost exact deck but running Koth of the hammer as a 4-of instead of something in your list (probably the ram gangs).
Also, you didn't run any of the haste graveyard cards like hellspark elemental, hell's thunder, or ball lightning. Why? Do you feel like they aren't good in this meta or just not good compared to the cards you ran in general? I'm very interested in your response as I don't play extended much but plan to go to the upcoming extended tournament in Roanoke this month and play this deck. Thanks! (=
i played
r1 architect deck 2-0
r2 wargate omen 2-0
r3 naya 2-0
r4 Elves 2-1
r5 Valakut R/G 2-0
r6 Valakut R/G 2-1
r7 draw
r8 draw
top 8 naya 1-2
I'm intrigued by this transformative sideboard idea, with the summons bushwacker package. I think it may be useful in G2s against fast decks like Jund/Valakut/Prismatic Scapeshift. What are other people's thoughts on this type of sideboard?
I suppose for the Valakut/Scapeshift matchups Tunnel Ignus could work just as well, but I'm just not sure if there's a better way to outrace Jund. Anyone else have play experience that may clear this up?
What have you guys been bringing in against:
Jund
Naya
Faeries
U/g Scapeshift
4 & 5 CC
R/G scapeshift
Mythic
U/W
Tempered Steel
G/W little kid
etc.
I'm trying to figure out if Fallouts are just good enough for the main now. They seem to be pretty relevant in board states against the popular aggro decks like Jund and Naya. And a better game 1 against faeries can go a long way. Plus uncounterable way to clear out Vendilion cliques and Finks from the U/W and 4cc is decent sometimes.
Also trying to figure out where Stigma Lasher is worth it. Clearly against a deck with little board presence yet one that brings in Baloth is good (thinking of Scapeshift here). And since Jund can bring in both Baloth and Finks it gets the nod there. But against Naya, many times you're battling something like Forge-tender and their only lifegain is from the Collar. Plus Fallout looks increasingly good in that MU and Fallout is a little awkward when Lasher in on your board.
I really need better percentages against Naya and Jund. What's working for you guys?
not a lot of jund in my meta. besides rdw is fast enough to the point that life gain becomes irrelevant. combust is there for faeries and blue/white (which is my meta). everlasting torment for any life gain shenanigans.
@Manila Boy: Why not Red Leyline for lifegain? It may cost 1 more to play, but it's also free some of the time. I find it hard to get to 3 mana and actually want to cast Torment over the other gas in my hand, or get it through the counter wall most UW decks like to have ready for turns 2 on.
@Manila Boy: Why not Red Leyline for lifegain? It may cost 1 more to play, but it's also free some of the time. I find it hard to get to 3 mana and actually want to cast Torment over the other gas in my hand, or get it through the counter wall most UW decks like to have ready for turns 2 on.
there was a game where i drew a leyline and not see a fourth land. besides, the wither factor comes in handy for when you shrink a baneslayer or something big. one prime example of this was when i was able to kill a couple of kitchen finks with a volcanic fallout. next extended though leyline is going to be a key card for us but for now everlasting torment is my pick to use.
And even besides the Figure, we gain plenty of reach through Unearthable guys and Demigod. Mimic Vat just seems too slow IMO.
while it is a decent 1 drop... its not better than goblin guide...
and I would lmost never sink mana into leveling it any more than I would Kargan. theyd just kill it.
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There are only 2 seasons each year... summer and hockey, and summer lasts too long.
and if it dies then you have a bit of a safer time to drop a ball lightning later on... the dies to removal problem always exists, sometimes its good that your opponent wastes it on a 1-drop rather than the threats that come up later.
i do agree with the kargan bit though... his level up only as sorcery really makes him alot weaker here.
Hey there, guys. I have three Standard-legal Red decks that I would like to transition over to Extended once the rotation hits. They're a Goblin deck, a KRed deck, and a plain RDW deck. I would love it if you guys were to look at my decks and suggest adjustments I could make in order to make them Extended playable. SB options would also be appreciated since I'm not too familiar with Extended meta. But yeah, without further adieu, here are my deck lists.
So, with what M12 brings and with the printing of a good Pro-Red kill spell, I feel it's time to start running this again. What do you guys think of Incinerate > Flame Javelin?
okay i am brand new to extended burn and i was wondering which build of burn to do. the green splash, black splash, or straight red. for the record i am not a noob to magic just extended. i play legacy dark burn and have been playing legacy for a long time
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4x Figure of Destiny
4x Goblin Guide
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Hell's Thunder
4x Burst Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Searing Blaze
4x Flame Javelin
4x Scalding Tarn
12x Mountain
4x Teetering Peeks
4x Devastating Summons
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Magma Spray
3x Volcanic Fallout
Overall the day didn't go too badly. I only won one of my seven die rolls, which hurt my matchups a little bit (against both of the Valakut decks I believe that I would have won if I had been on the play, since both times they killed me I was holding more than lethal damage in my hand). However, I was lucky that two of the guys I played against struggled with their mana, so I guess my luck evened out for the day. My rounds went like this:
U/B Poison – Won 2-0
W/R/b Midrange – Won 2-0
R/G Valakut – Lost 1-2
Naya – Won 2-1
Faeries – Won 2-1
R/G Valakut – Lost 1-2 (I stayed in at this point since top 16 got ½ a box)
Faeries – Won 2-0
4 figure of destiny
4 kargan dragonlord
4 plated geopede
4 boggart ramgang
4 burst lightning
4 searing blaze
4 flame javelin
4 scalding tarn
4 arid mesa
4 teetering peaks
4 goblin bushwacker
4 devastating summons
3 koth of the hammer
i played
r1 architect deck 2-0
r2 wargate omen 2-0
r3 naya 2-0
r4 Elves 2-1
r5 Valakut R/G 2-0
r6 Valakut R/G 2-1
r7 draw
r8 draw
top 8 naya 1-2
How did you feel about Boggart Ram Gang? Did it ever feel too slow/like it wasn't performing as well as you wanted it to? Same question to all of the card choices. Which ones were great and you would definitely keep, and which felt the opposite? I ask this because I am looking to make that almost exact deck but running Koth of the hammer as a 4-of instead of something in your list (probably the ram gangs).
Also, you didn't run any of the haste graveyard cards like hellspark elemental, hell's thunder, or ball lightning. Why? Do you feel like they aren't good in this meta or just not good compared to the cards you ran in general? I'm very interested in your response as I don't play extended much but plan to go to the upcoming extended tournament in Roanoke this month and play this deck. Thanks! (=
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
I ran this to 10th place and 6-2 at the Seattle PTQ
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Plated Geopede
4 Bolt Lightning
4 Searing Blaze
4 Flame Javelin
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
8 Mountain
4 Teetering Peaks
I was actually suppose to run 4 figures instead of the 4 bolt lightning, but I got distracted during the deck building, haha.
This is what I might be testing for Portland:
4 Ball Lightning
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Boggart ramgang
4 Bloodbraid elf
4 Plated Geopede
4 flame javelin
4 Searing blaze
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
8 Mountain
Still unsure about the sideboard. Any suggestions, criticisms? I think it might be too slow, but again, I'm unsure.
My Trade Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=317330
I'm intrigued by this transformative sideboard idea, with the summons bushwacker package. I think it may be useful in G2s against fast decks like Jund/Valakut/Prismatic Scapeshift. What are other people's thoughts on this type of sideboard?
I suppose for the Valakut/Scapeshift matchups Tunnel Ignus could work just as well, but I'm just not sure if there's a better way to outrace Jund. Anyone else have play experience that may clear this up?
this is my sideboard:
4 volcanic fallout
4 tunnel ignus
3 everlasting torment
2 combust
2 smash to smithereens
not a lot of jund in my meta. besides rdw is fast enough to the point that life gain becomes irrelevant. combust is there for faeries and blue/white (which is my meta). everlasting torment for any life gain shenanigans.
"Can you apply the penal code to demons?"
there was a game where i drew a leyline and not see a fourth land. besides, the wither factor comes in handy for when you shrink a baneslayer or something big. one prime example of this was when i was able to kill a couple of kitchen finks with a volcanic fallout. next extended though leyline is going to be a key card for us but for now everlasting torment is my pick to use.
but for some reason, blightning deck wins seems to win out every time.
so here is my extended rdw.
4 goblin guide
4 kiln fiend
4 hellspark elemental
4 hell's thunder
4 ball lightning
4 Demigod of revenge
Artifacts: (2)
2 Mimic Vat
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Blightning
4 Flame Javelin
Lands: (22)
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Graven Cairns
12 Mountains
2 Leyline of Punishment
3 Earthquake
4 Go for the throat
2 Smash to smithereens
3 Magma Spray
1 Red sun zenith
▲
▲ ▲
Mimic vat is more of a turn 4 or 5 play...
nothing says loving like an unearthable ball lightning (Demigod?) every turn. Or being able to block with instant speed ball lightning.
regardless it gives a sustaining power, the deck used to lack.
I notice you don't run Figure of Destiny...
And even besides the Figure, we gain plenty of reach through Unearthable guys and Demigod. Mimic Vat just seems too slow IMO.
while it is a decent 1 drop... its not better than goblin guide...
and I would lmost never sink mana into leveling it any more than I would Kargan. theyd just kill it.
i do agree with the kargan bit though... his level up only as sorcery really makes him alot weaker here.
Goblins:
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Bushwhacker
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Incinerate
Sorceries (8):
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lead the Stampede
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootboud Crag
14 Mountain
KRed:
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Incinerate
Sorceries (8):
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
3 Contested War Zone
17 Mountain
RDW:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Chandra's Pheonix
4 Quest for Pure Flame
Instants (16):
4 Burst Lightning
4 Gut Shot
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Forked Bolt
4 Slagstorm
Lands (21):
21 Mountain
16 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
Creatures: 23
4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Plated Geopede
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Demigod of Revenge
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
3 Searing Blaze
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Dismember
3 Pithing Needle
3 Manic Vandal
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Koth of the Hammer