if you want the build to be more consistent, include cards that improve consistency. Signal Pest and Court homunculus are just more weenie drops and don't really add anything to the deck. I'm getting bored watching you guys flounder with the deck when you're missing a lot of important pieces. The reason you're all running into problems is that you either catch something to make your creatures threats or you fizzle out. When you're running a deck like that it's important to have ways to get to those cards. you run exactly zero means of getting to your important pieces and wonder why you fall flat on your face. I've been running tempered steel since October and I figured that out the first time I tried a build. anyways, here's my new list with Tezz. Enjoy.
Sideboard options ( Pick what you want depending on your meta )
Indomitable Archangel - Strong vs. Doran, Doran is weak to flying and she eats removal for you.
Darksteel Juggernaut - Strong vs. 5cc and Time Seive. Survives wrath effects.
Twisted Image - Amazing Vs. Doran. Kill a creature and draw a card for 1 blue.
Ethersworn Cannonist - Strong Vs. Elves, Jund & Dredgevine - no cascade for you, and no massive elf drop either.
Leyline of the Void - End of Dredge. No explanation needed, not really important unless there's a TON of dredge in your meta.
Leyline of Sanctity - I've never had a problem with scapeshift, but I'm pretty sure if you play this they don't have a win condition anymore.
You do realise that card like Signal Pest and Court homunculus are vital to trigger Mox Opal and effectively use Springleaf Drum, I know Ornithopter and Memnite can do much the same thing however some times they are not enough.....
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if you want the build to be more consistent, include cards that improve consistency. Signal Pest and Court homunculus are just more weenie drops and don't really add anything to the deck. I'm getting bored watching you guys flounder with the deck when you're missing a lot of important pieces. The reason you're all running into problems is that you either catch something to make your creatures threats or you fizzle out. When you're running a deck like that it's important to have ways to get to those cards. you run exactly zero means of getting to your important pieces and wonder why you fall flat on your face. I've been running tempered steel since October and I figured that out the first time I tried a build. anyways, here's my new list with Tezz. Enjoy.
Sideboard options ( Pick what you want depending on your meta )
Indomitable Archangel - Strong vs. Doran, Doran is weak to flying and she eats removal for you.
Darksteel Juggernaut - Strong vs. 5cc and Time Seive. Survives wrath effects.
Twisted Image - Amazing Vs. Doran. Kill a creature and draw a card for 1 blue.
Ethersworn Cannonist - Strong Vs. Elves, Jund & Dredgevine - no cascade for you, and no massive elf drop either.
Leyline of the Void - End of Dredge. No explanation needed, not really important unless there's a TON of dredge in your meta.
Leyline of Sanctity - I've never had a problem with scapeshift, but I'm pretty sure if you play this they don't have a win condition anymore.
No way you are getting metalcraft enough mate. I've begun to become disaffected by Naya, and this is one of the decks I've been looking at. the most consistent build I've come up with is a combination of the normal deck and the Esper Aggro deck on the developing forum:
No way you are getting metalcraft enough mate. I've begun to become disaffected by Naya, and this is one of the decks I've been looking at. the most consistent build I've come up with is a combination of the normal deck and the Esper Aggro deck on the developing forum:
You do realise that card like Signal Pest and Court homunculus are vital to trigger Mox Opal and effectively use Springleaf Drum, I know Ornithopter and Memnite can do much the same thing however some times they are not enough.....
That's why I've taken first place at 9 out of 12 extended tournaments I've played it at and I play in one of the more competitive meta's in Pennsylvania. That would also explain why local pro-level players agree that my deck is the best build they've seen. I'm not gonna argue too much because I'm fine with being the only one winning consistently with the deck, but I'll try and put this into as simple terms as possible. Signal Pest, Court Homunculus, Ornithopter and Memnite all have something in common. They're all very underwhelming creatures on the board, they simply have the advantage that they drop quickly. If you don't get one of your critical pieces to go with them like tempered steel or Master of Etherium you can't win because they just don't do enough. Have you found yourself running out of steam? or do you not playtest?
Anyways, regarding Metalcraft I should point out that you don't get a mox opal turn 1 every game. That aside you do need to be able to catch the bonus mana. Fortunately you only need one creature to use springleaf, with memnites and thopters you can get it turn 1 often enough. Or the same is true with Opal, and since you can drop Opal and a single creature at 0 cmc then ponder. Ponder can get you another 0cmc, or can get a tidehollow for turn 2 activating opal for 3-4 mana for a turn 3 play. T1: Land, Opal, Memnite, Ponder; T2: Land, Tidehollow, Opal for Springleaf; T3: Lodestone. It loses a little of it's lightning speed but gets solid threats on the table while taking away your opponent's ability to play effectively. This gives you the most options, and allows you to play slightly higher cmc creatures without trouble. I can agree that cheap creatures are important, but you need to remember at some point you need to add an extra way to get to your win conditions. You can't run this deck effectively without solid card draw. I would think that would be a concept simple enough anyone could understand.
That's why I've taken first place at 9 out of 12 extended tournaments I've played it at and I play in one of the more competitive meta's in Pennsylvania. That would also explain why local pro-level players agree that my deck is the best build they've seen. I'm not gonna argue too much because I'm fine with being the only one winning consistently with the deck, but I'll try and put this into as simple terms as possible. Signal Pest, Court Homunculus, Ornithopter and Memnite all have something in common. They're all very underwhelming creatures on the board, they simply have the advantage that they drop quickly. If you don't get one of your critical pieces to go with them like tempered steel or Master of Etherium you can't win because they just don't do enough. Have you found yourself running out of steam? or do you not playtest?
Anyways, regarding Metalcraft I should point out that you don't get a mox opal turn 1 every game. That aside you do need to be able to catch the bonus mana. Fortunately you only need one creature to use springleaf, with memnites and thopters you can get it turn 1 often enough. Or the same is true with Opal, and since you can drop Opal and a single creature at 0 cmc then ponder. Ponder can get you another 0cmc, or can get a tidehollow for turn 2 activating opal for 3-4 mana for a turn 3 play. T1: Land, Opal, Memnite, Ponder; T2: Land, Tidehollow, Opal for Springleaf; T3: Lodestone. It loses a little of it's lightning speed but gets solid threats on the table while taking away your opponent's ability to play effectively. This gives you the most options, and allows you to play slightly higher cmc creatures without trouble. I can agree that cheap creatures are important, but you need to remember at some point you need to add an extra way to get to your win conditions. You can't run this deck effectively without solid card draw. I would think that would be a concept simple enough anyone could understand.
first off your curve is extremely high and it may be just me but im not a big fan of lodestone golem. second you say all the one drops are underwhelming creatures well duh thats kinda the whole point of the deck to begin with having a bunch of 1/1's turn into 5/5's. also thats why we run like 12 lords...we shouldnt have a problem getting one of them. i do agree with you adding in the card draw but im still not sure which is the best cards to use to get that effect. plus i see alot of people took out the discard but i love it alot and its what helps protect all your creatures. although it may be very little card draw i do run esper charm...it gives the option to either refill your hand or do the opposite to your opponent...plus the destroy part is just icing on the cake taking care of a bitterblossom when they tap out turn 2 to play it. i believe the slower decks will find it alot harder to deal with matchups like the fae. and i believe just a small bit of inconsistancy is the price you pay for having an aggro deck (or even hyper-aggro) deck. i run goblins in standard and thats just about as inconsistant as you can get sometimes but thats why magic has that lovely option of mulliganing. i guess some (may be few) of the reasons ppl may be complaining about inconsistancy is just cause they keep hands they shouldnt (myself included). well i think thats all i got on my mind right now but to sum things up i think the more people start to deviate from the decks original concept, the less effective it will be.
-chias
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I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
first off your curve is extremely high and it may be just me but im not a big fan of lodestone golem. second you say all the one drops are underwhelming creatures well duh thats kinda the whole point of the deck to begin with having a bunch of 1/1's turn into 5/5's. also thats why we run like 12 lords...we shouldnt have a problem getting one of them. i do agree with you adding in the card draw but im still not sure which is the best cards to use to get that effect. plus i see alot of people took out the discard but i love it alot and its what helps protect all your creatures. although it may be very little card draw i do run esper charm...it gives the option to either refill your hand or do the opposite to your opponent...plus the destroy part is just icing on the cake taking care of a bitterblossom when they tap out turn 2 to play it. i believe the slower decks will find it alot harder to deal with matchups like the fae. and i believe just a small bit of inconsistancy is the price you pay for having an aggro deck (or even hyper-aggro) deck. i run goblins in standard and thats just about as inconsistant as you can get sometimes but thats why magic has that lovely option of mulliganing. i guess some (may be few) of the reasons ppl may be complaining about inconsistancy is just cause they keep hands they shouldnt (myself included). well i think thats all i got on my mind right now but to sum things up i think the more people start to deviate from the decks original concept, the less effective it will be.
-chias
I agree with this guy. The more things you have to spend mana on that DON'T directly make your opponent dead, the worse the aggro deck tends to be. I'm not a fan of card draw in aggro decks, because it doesn't actually DO anything. Sign in Blood would be ok, because it can actually work as burn, but I'd run NO MORE than 3. Same goes for Esper Charm, though the 3 cost is VERY relavent in a deck with 23-24 mana sources, only 17-18 of which are lands. I do LIKE ponder in the deck, but the mana just isn't there to make it really effective - I'd rather be able to run Tar Pits and Heights.
Also, running ANY four drops outside Tez seems a mistake...
That's why I've taken first place at 9 out of 12 extended tournaments I've played it at and I play in one of the more competitive meta's in Pennsylvania. That would also explain why local pro-level players agree that my deck is the best build they've seen. I'm not gonna argue too much because I'm fine with being the only one winning consistently with the deck, but I'll try and put this into as simple terms as possible. Signal Pest, Court Homunculus, Ornithopter and Memnite all have something in common. They're all very underwhelming creatures on the board, they simply have the advantage that they drop quickly. If you don't get one of your critical pieces to go with them like tempered steel or Master of Etherium you can't win because they just don't do enough. Have you found yourself running out of steam? or do you not playtest?
Anyways, regarding Metalcraft I should point out that you don't get a mox opal turn 1 every game. That aside you do need to be able to catch the bonus mana. Fortunately you only need one creature to use springleaf, with memnites and thopters you can get it turn 1 often enough. Or the same is true with Opal, and since you can drop Opal and a single creature at 0 cmc then ponder. Ponder can get you another 0cmc, or can get a tidehollow for turn 2 activating opal for 3-4 mana for a turn 3 play. T1: Land, Opal, Memnite, Ponder; T2: Land, Tidehollow, Opal for Springleaf; T3: Lodestone. It loses a little of it's lightning speed but gets solid threats on the table while taking away your opponent's ability to play effectively. This gives you the most options, and allows you to play slightly higher cmc creatures without trouble. I can agree that cheap creatures are important, but you need to remember at some point you need to add an extra way to get to your win conditions. You can't run this deck effectively without solid card draw. I would think that would be a concept simple enough anyone could understand.
lol who have you been playing against? yep thats how to improve an agro deck take out creatures and put in draw....
2 Sphinx Summoner
...
Indomitable Archangel - Strong vs. Doran
...
Darksteel Juggernaut - Strong vs. 5cc and Time Seive.
...
Twisted Image - Amazing Vs. Doran. Kill a creature and draw a card for 1 blue.
...
Leyline of the Void - End of Dredge
...
Leyline of Sanctity - I've never had a problem with scapeshift, but I'm pretty sure if you play this they don't have a win condition anymore.
You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about do you? Doran hasn't been a deck in forever, but probably twice as long as time sseive has been, and you know scape plays a set of cryptics right?
But you're right, definitely the way to improve this deck is to remove the 1 drops in favour of 4 and 5 drops. I definitely can't see how that would be ... oh no wait you just killed the deck.
I don't know why anyone took him seriously in the first place. 17 lands in a curve that includes more 4-drops than RDW or Doran is a joke, period. The point of Tempered Steel is to create an overwhelming board presence before your opponent can even respond. The deck is built to get past Kitchen Finks and DOJ, so why would you slow that down? What's worse is that you're ditching Ranger of Eos for Summoner and Lodestone? I don't see how that A)Improves consistency or B)Stifles your opponents gameplan.
I don't know why anyone took him seriously in the first place. 17 lands in a curve that includes more 4-drops than RDW or Doran is a joke, period. The point of Tempered Steel is to create an overwhelming board presence before your opponent can even respond. The deck is built to get past Kitchen Finks and DOJ, so why would you slow that down? What's worse is that you're ditching Ranger of Eos for Summoner and Lodestone? I don't see how that A)Improves consistency or B)Stifles your opponents gameplan.
Summoner's not bad per say, but he works in a build like mine, not the traditional one.
What do you guys think about this list, its more aggressive than most. Haven't had a lot of time to test but seems fun. What are your thoughts of trying flayerhusk?
flayerhusk is bad cause well tempered steel does nothing with it...and steel overseer cant pump it. the only thing it does is create a 1/1 body for 1 which i think is worse than ornithopter, and pump master of etherium....so im going to vote no for flayer husk
-chias
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I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
That is an interesting idea, with the Stormblades, Strixes, and Architects, but there are some problems with the idea - namely, that you are MUCH more susceptible to spot removal, specifically burn and GFtT. Also, why aren't you running the BEST creature in the deck (Tidehollow Sculler)? It is an interesting idea, but it seems a tad gimmicky, and likely to have hands that are all fat and no meat (meaning, Tez, Steel, and the big dudes and something like Homunculus and no Architect or small stuff). Worth looking at, though...
Also, what is Tempered Steel really doing for you in this deck? It doesn't seem to me like it would appreciably increase your clock.
What do you guys think about this list, its more aggressive than most. Haven't had a lot of time to test but seems fun. What are your thoughts of trying flayerhusk?
I have a couple of questions for you (well, Socratic ones), since I started out testing a list like yours:
1) What removal spell is Fae likely to be running?
2) Are Borderposts & Stormblade better than Windbrisk Heights and manlands? Also, how many mulligans do they produce?
3) What deck do you really want Etched Champion against that you wouldn't rather have Master's Call or Tez?
4) What creatures (that aren't 6-drops, since if they're hitting six drops you have basically failed your job) do you really need to Path? Meaning, that actually affect the board?
5) Once again, where are the Scullers? They are the BEST CARD IN THE DECK. They are one of only two reasons to run this deck over red (the other being Tez for the longer game).
Here is my newest list, which may or may not illustrate some of my points:
I've been tweaking the deck considerably. I cut down to three Tez, mainly because I was tired of getting them trapped in hand. I may put the fourth back in the 'Board in place of a Thoughtseize or Tutelage (they'd come in against the same decks). Speaking of the board, the Meddling Mages act as Sculler 5+6 when you bring in the Thoughtseizes - there are surprisingly few cards you really care about in many decks. Against decks with DoJ or Firespout, that is target #1; against Fae there really isn't much you care about, though taking removal or Mistbinds can be good; against Scapeshift you just care about sweepers and Omen (only if they've got a Valakut down) or Titan (sometimes); you pull the discard (including scullers) against most creature decks for the Arbiters and Revokers, which just slow them down a whole bunch.
yea most people dont realize that its not an artifact creature itself.
I think this deck is going to be good. definatly needs to go up to 20 lands+drum+mox's
i think that tezzeret brings to the deck another threat equal or superior to mater of etherium and tempered steel im not sure yet. ranger of eos is good but unlike tezzeret its not really a formidable threat itself (it relies on either tempered steel or master for its ability to have a decent effect)
also tezzeret may be the card that justifies windbrisk heights inclusion in the deck (the reason this card has been questioned is that the deck is threat light and by threat I meant eh 1 drop artifact 2/2 is not a threat in ext a 3 drop enchantment that makes you team huge is)
yea most people dont realize that its not an artifact creature itself.
I think this deck is going to be good. definatly needs to go up to 20 lands+drum+mox's
i think that tezzeret brings to the deck another threat equal or superior to mater of etherium and tempered steel im not sure yet. ranger of eos is good but unlike tezzeret its not really a formidable threat itself (it relies on either tempered steel or master for its ability to have a decent effect)
also tezzeret may be the card that justifies windbrisk heights inclusion in the deck (the reason this card has been questioned is that the deck is threat light and by threat I meant eh 1 drop artifact 2/2 is not a threat in ext a 3 drop enchantment that makes you team huge is)
I agree - that's why I added the Heights in the first place, though that is also why I ended up cutting down to two. They are very impressive, since there are 15 cards you want to hit with them (Tez, Sculler, Steel, Master), but they are only good late and not particularly good in multiples. The same goes for Tez - I kept getting hands with 2, and cutting to 3 still leaves you with a 50/50 chance of hitting once T3, while drastically reducing the chance of drawing 2. I was also getting flooded some, so I cut one of the War Zones, adding in 2 maindeck Revokers, though they suck against Scapeshift and Fae...
As far as the lands, your curve is stupid low, so 17 or 18 lands is fine, since Mox is basically a land in this deck and you almost never have a hand where drum doesn't make mana. Going up to 24-26 mana sources is a problem, since you would be reducing the already light thread density - there are only 11 real threats (Tez, Steel, Master), and they all depend on other cards to be good.
What you think about Inkmoth Nexus ? Maybe with any pumper you have a new way to win and a good fae blocker.
Master of Etherium , Steel Overseer, Tezz 2.0 , Signal Pest and Tempered Steel.
Still waiting for sideboarding tips!
Thanks a lot!
anyone still runnning thoughtsieze? also for SB ethersworn cannonist is an allstar. not so sure if im going to run that leonin arbitor yet. my sb is still incomplete as well so any input would also be appreciated.
-chias
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I am petitioning for the removal of people who whine about mythic rarity. Sig this if you agree; they should just get over it. The mythic rarity serves to protect the price of rares that due to record printings are extremely lower than what they were during say, Ravnica block. Get a job.
What you think about Inkmoth Nexus ? Maybe with any pumper you have a new way to win and a good fae blocker.
Master of Etherium , Steel Overseer, Tezz 2.0 , Signal Pest and Tempered Steel.
Still waiting for sideboarding tips!
Thanks a lot!
Given that it would be the ONLY poison card in the deck, Nexus seems bad.
As far as sideboarding tips, my build is pretty easy to 'board. Here's my general strategy:
Fae:
-4 Signal Pest (can be a liability)
-2 Phyrexian Revoker (does nothing)
-1 Steel Overseer (had to cut something, not as effective out of the board)
+4 Thoughtseize (to take the inevitable removal)
+3 Dark Tutelage (The stone nuts against a deck that has trouble putting pressure on you)
Wargate/UG Omen (no Expeditions):
-4 Signal Pest (weakest card in the deck)
-4 Steel Overseer (gets a lot weaker with the number of non-artifact creatures)
-2 Phyrexian Revoker (does nothing but stop Jace, who you don't really care about)
+4 Thoughtseize (you are the control in this matchup)
+4 Leonin Arbiter (duh)
+2 Meddling Mage (goes with the Thoughtseize to make Sculler #5+6)
On the draw, you cut 1 Tez and 1 Ornithopter for two Tutelages.
GR Omen / UG Omen with Expeditions:
Same as before, but cut Ornithopters and Memnites to keep 3 Revokers
Naya/GW/Ooze/Dredgevine (all have similar boarding strategies):
-4 Tidehollow Sculler (hard to cast, and not too effective - cut Overseer instead against Ooze)
-2 Memnite (weaker than 'thopter)
RDW, white weenie:
Well, that's up to you - I do it so I'm the control if I'm on the draw, meaning bringing in Thoughtseize and Meddling Mage. If I'm on the play, I just cut something random for the other Revokers - they stop Figure and unearth dudes, along with random PW's. They also stop Ratchet Bomb...
That's about it for the testing I've done. I've been running hot (something like 65/35 G1 total, better after board in all but RDW and WW), but the deck is HELLA inconsistant - though it does mulligan well. I'd highly suggest doing a bunch of mull practice before taking it to a tourney, but it is one of the fastest and most resilient decks I've ever seen, so it seems worth it to me.
so, just to clear a few things up for people who still haven't figured it out. #1, the deck doesn't actually have low mana, so there's no need to stick to all low drops. Although you're running only 17 land, you run a total of 23-24 mana sources. This is comparable to decks that look to top out their curve at 6. the bonus this deck has though is that it has a lot of alternate mana meaning it hit's that curve faster. Also, although the deck plays a lot like aggro, there's a lot of cards that end up dead if you don't get a TS or a Master, so you're reliant somewhat like combo. Although Tezz is a new add, my previous record with the deck is 83/17 and that's against every other top tier deck in the format: Faeries, Jund, 5CC, Scapeshift, Elves, Kithkin, Fish, Doran, Shamans, Time Seive. The majority of the people I game with do pro level events. And trust me, Doran is still a deck and it's one of the harder matchups.
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You do realise that card like Signal Pest and Court homunculus are vital to trigger Mox Opal and effectively use Springleaf Drum, I know Ornithopter and Memnite can do much the same thing however some times they are not enough.....
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No way you are getting metalcraft enough mate. I've begun to become disaffected by Naya, and this is one of the decks I've been looking at. the most consistent build I've come up with is a combination of the normal deck and the Esper Aggro deck on the developing forum:
4 Court Homunculus
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Esper Stormblade
2 Tidehollow Strix
2 Etched Champion
4 Grand Architect
4 Master of Etherium
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Tempered Steel
2 Fieldmist Borderpost
2 Mistvein Borderpost
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Land (18):
4 DarkslickShores
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Fetid Heath
3 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Swamp
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Borderposts with no basics???
That's why I've taken first place at 9 out of 12 extended tournaments I've played it at and I play in one of the more competitive meta's in Pennsylvania. That would also explain why local pro-level players agree that my deck is the best build they've seen. I'm not gonna argue too much because I'm fine with being the only one winning consistently with the deck, but I'll try and put this into as simple terms as possible. Signal Pest, Court Homunculus, Ornithopter and Memnite all have something in common. They're all very underwhelming creatures on the board, they simply have the advantage that they drop quickly. If you don't get one of your critical pieces to go with them like tempered steel or Master of Etherium you can't win because they just don't do enough. Have you found yourself running out of steam? or do you not playtest?
Anyways, regarding Metalcraft I should point out that you don't get a mox opal turn 1 every game. That aside you do need to be able to catch the bonus mana. Fortunately you only need one creature to use springleaf, with memnites and thopters you can get it turn 1 often enough. Or the same is true with Opal, and since you can drop Opal and a single creature at 0 cmc then ponder. Ponder can get you another 0cmc, or can get a tidehollow for turn 2 activating opal for 3-4 mana for a turn 3 play. T1: Land, Opal, Memnite, Ponder; T2: Land, Tidehollow, Opal for Springleaf; T3: Lodestone. It loses a little of it's lightning speed but gets solid threats on the table while taking away your opponent's ability to play effectively. This gives you the most options, and allows you to play slightly higher cmc creatures without trouble. I can agree that cheap creatures are important, but you need to remember at some point you need to add an extra way to get to your win conditions. You can't run this deck effectively without solid card draw. I would think that would be a concept simple enough anyone could understand.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
first off your curve is extremely high and it may be just me but im not a big fan of lodestone golem. second you say all the one drops are underwhelming creatures well duh thats kinda the whole point of the deck to begin with having a bunch of 1/1's turn into 5/5's. also thats why we run like 12 lords...we shouldnt have a problem getting one of them. i do agree with you adding in the card draw but im still not sure which is the best cards to use to get that effect. plus i see alot of people took out the discard but i love it alot and its what helps protect all your creatures. although it may be very little card draw i do run esper charm...it gives the option to either refill your hand or do the opposite to your opponent...plus the destroy part is just icing on the cake taking care of a bitterblossom when they tap out turn 2 to play it. i believe the slower decks will find it alot harder to deal with matchups like the fae. and i believe just a small bit of inconsistancy is the price you pay for having an aggro deck (or even hyper-aggro) deck. i run goblins in standard and thats just about as inconsistant as you can get sometimes but thats why magic has that lovely option of mulliganing. i guess some (may be few) of the reasons ppl may be complaining about inconsistancy is just cause they keep hands they shouldnt (myself included). well i think thats all i got on my mind right now but to sum things up i think the more people start to deviate from the decks original concept, the less effective it will be.
-chias
I agree with this guy. The more things you have to spend mana on that DON'T directly make your opponent dead, the worse the aggro deck tends to be. I'm not a fan of card draw in aggro decks, because it doesn't actually DO anything. Sign in Blood would be ok, because it can actually work as burn, but I'd run NO MORE than 3. Same goes for Esper Charm, though the 3 cost is VERY relavent in a deck with 23-24 mana sources, only 17-18 of which are lands. I do LIKE ponder in the deck, but the mana just isn't there to make it really effective - I'd rather be able to run Tar Pits and Heights.
Also, running ANY four drops outside Tez seems a mistake...
Ah, that was a mistake, the original version of this deck was UB and ran basics. Updating my list now.
EDIT: Anyway, what do you guys think of it? Its more color-intensive, but also has major ramp possibilities, and additional pump from the Architect.
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lol who have you been playing against? yep thats how to improve an agro deck take out creatures and put in draw....
You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about do you? Doran hasn't been a deck in forever, but probably twice as long as time sseive has been, and you know scape plays a set of cryptics right?
But you're right, definitely the way to improve this deck is to remove the 1 drops in favour of 4 and 5 drops. I definitely can't see how that would be ... oh no wait you just killed the deck.
I concede to your nebulous appeal to authority.
This was supposed to be the competitive thread....
Agree with u 100%
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Summoner's not bad per say, but he works in a build like mine, not the traditional one.
EDIT: Updated version after testing
4 Court Homunculus
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Esper Stormblade
2 Tidehollow Strix
4 Etched Champion
4 Grand Architect
4 Master of Etherium
2 Sphinx Summoner
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Tempered Steel
3 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Mistvein Borderpost
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Island
3 Swamp
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Yup! I started at 15 but i got mana flooded too much
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4 Esper Stormblade
4 Memnite
4 Master of Etherium
3 Etched Champions
3 Ornithopter
3 Ardent Recruit
3 Ranger of Eos
2 Signal Pest
4 Path to Exile
3 Springleaf drum
3 Mox Opal
2 Fieldmist Boarderpost
2 Mistvein Boarderpost
3 Marsh Flats
3 Seachrome Coast
2 plains
2 swamp
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flayerhusk is bad cause well tempered steel does nothing with it...and steel overseer cant pump it. the only thing it does is create a 1/1 body for 1 which i think is worse than ornithopter, and pump master of etherium....so im going to vote no for flayer husk
-chias
That is an interesting idea, with the Stormblades, Strixes, and Architects, but there are some problems with the idea - namely, that you are MUCH more susceptible to spot removal, specifically burn and GFtT. Also, why aren't you running the BEST creature in the deck (Tidehollow Sculler)? It is an interesting idea, but it seems a tad gimmicky, and likely to have hands that are all fat and no meat (meaning, Tez, Steel, and the big dudes and something like Homunculus and no Architect or small stuff). Worth looking at, though...
Also, what is Tempered Steel really doing for you in this deck? It doesn't seem to me like it would appreciably increase your clock.
I have a couple of questions for you (well, Socratic ones), since I started out testing a list like yours:
1) What removal spell is Fae likely to be running?
2) Are Borderposts & Stormblade better than Windbrisk Heights and manlands? Also, how many mulligans do they produce?
3) What deck do you really want Etched Champion against that you wouldn't rather have Master's Call or Tez?
4) What creatures (that aren't 6-drops, since if they're hitting six drops you have basically failed your job) do you really need to Path? Meaning, that actually affect the board?
5) Once again, where are the Scullers? They are the BEST CARD IN THE DECK. They are one of only two reasons to run this deck over red (the other being Tez for the longer game).
Here is my newest list, which may or may not illustrate some of my points:
4 Court Homunculus
4 Signal Pest
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Tempered Steel
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Fetid Heath
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Plains
1 Contested War Zone
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Meddling Mage
3 Dark Tutelage
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thoughseize
I've been tweaking the deck considerably. I cut down to three Tez, mainly because I was tired of getting them trapped in hand. I may put the fourth back in the 'Board in place of a Thoughtseize or Tutelage (they'd come in against the same decks). Speaking of the board, the Meddling Mages act as Sculler 5+6 when you bring in the Thoughtseizes - there are surprisingly few cards you really care about in many decks. Against decks with DoJ or Firespout, that is target #1; against Fae there really isn't much you care about, though taking removal or Mistbinds can be good; against Scapeshift you just care about sweepers and Omen (only if they've got a Valakut down) or Titan (sometimes); you pull the discard (including scullers) against most creature decks for the Arbiters and Revokers, which just slow them down a whole bunch.
I think this deck is going to be good. definatly needs to go up to 20 lands+drum+mox's
i think that tezzeret brings to the deck another threat equal or superior to mater of etherium and tempered steel im not sure yet. ranger of eos is good but unlike tezzeret its not really a formidable threat itself (it relies on either tempered steel or master for its ability to have a decent effect)
also tezzeret may be the card that justifies windbrisk heights inclusion in the deck (the reason this card has been questioned is that the deck is threat light and by threat I meant eh 1 drop artifact 2/2 is not a threat in ext a 3 drop enchantment that makes you team huge is)
I agree - that's why I added the Heights in the first place, though that is also why I ended up cutting down to two. They are very impressive, since there are 15 cards you want to hit with them (Tez, Sculler, Steel, Master), but they are only good late and not particularly good in multiples. The same goes for Tez - I kept getting hands with 2, and cutting to 3 still leaves you with a 50/50 chance of hitting once T3, while drastically reducing the chance of drawing 2. I was also getting flooded some, so I cut one of the War Zones, adding in 2 maindeck Revokers, though they suck against Scapeshift and Fae...
As far as the lands, your curve is stupid low, so 17 or 18 lands is fine, since Mox is basically a land in this deck and you almost never have a hand where drum doesn't make mana. Going up to 24-26 mana sources is a problem, since you would be reducing the already light thread density - there are only 11 real threats (Tez, Steel, Master), and they all depend on other cards to be good.
Master of Etherium , Steel Overseer, Tezz 2.0 , Signal Pest and Tempered Steel.
Still waiting for sideboarding tips!
Thanks a lot!
-chias
Given that it would be the ONLY poison card in the deck, Nexus seems bad.
As far as sideboarding tips, my build is pretty easy to 'board. Here's my general strategy:
Fae:
-4 Signal Pest (can be a liability)
-2 Phyrexian Revoker (does nothing)
-1 Steel Overseer (had to cut something, not as effective out of the board)
+4 Thoughtseize (to take the inevitable removal)
+3 Dark Tutelage (The stone nuts against a deck that has trouble putting pressure on you)
Wargate/UG Omen (no Expeditions):
-4 Signal Pest (weakest card in the deck)
-4 Steel Overseer (gets a lot weaker with the number of non-artifact creatures)
-2 Phyrexian Revoker (does nothing but stop Jace, who you don't really care about)
+4 Thoughtseize (you are the control in this matchup)
+4 Leonin Arbiter (duh)
+2 Meddling Mage (goes with the Thoughtseize to make Sculler #5+6)
On the draw, you cut 1 Tez and 1 Ornithopter for two Tutelages.
GR Omen / UG Omen with Expeditions:
Same as before, but cut Ornithopters and Memnites to keep 3 Revokers
Naya/GW/Ooze/Dredgevine (all have similar boarding strategies):
-4 Tidehollow Sculler (hard to cast, and not too effective - cut Overseer instead against Ooze)
-2 Memnite (weaker than 'thopter)
+4 Leonin Arbiter (2-mana LD + Disruption FTW!)
+2 Phyrexian Revoker (same deal - stops half their decks - Knight, Shaman, Sparkmage, Looter, Pridgemage, etc.)
RDW, white weenie:
Well, that's up to you - I do it so I'm the control if I'm on the draw, meaning bringing in Thoughtseize and Meddling Mage. If I'm on the play, I just cut something random for the other Revokers - they stop Figure and unearth dudes, along with random PW's. They also stop Ratchet Bomb...
That's about it for the testing I've done. I've been running hot (something like 65/35 G1 total, better after board in all but RDW and WW), but the deck is HELLA inconsistant - though it does mulligan well. I'd highly suggest doing a bunch of mull practice before taking it to a tourney, but it is one of the fastest and most resilient decks I've ever seen, so it seems worth it to me.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!