hero of bladehold could be in the spot of thistledown liege (they are both knights) but im liking thistledown's ability to be played at end of opponents turn vs faeries so they counter and you can run out what ever you want in your turn. and the fact that it doesnt have to survive a whole turn to have an effect on the board other then to block. but bladehold does dominate by itself once it gets to attack and even better if there is more creatures out.
the deck runs 13 anthem effects so it can get out of vollcanic fallout range very fast and exemplar can hold off day of judgement hopefully
exemplar also combined with multiple firststrike dudes allows the deck to just dominate the midrange creature based decks.
have not had much testing vs jund or rdw but ww has always just rolled rdw anyways.
im like 8-3 vs faeries. the only way you lose is getting stuck on 3 mana (never actually lost from this) or getting cryptic command chains. as mistbind isnt actually that great if you are running liege
stillmoon cavalier is just better then mirran crusader. It hoses white (all big green creatures are also white apart from primeval tiatn and you are probably dead if he resolves anyway), black and can block demigod, mistbind etc
if not replaced in sb atleast take it out of md....
stillmoon cavalier is just better then mirran crusader. It hoses white (all big green creatures are also white apart from primeval tiatn and you are probably dead if he resolves anyway), black and can block demigod, mistbind etc
if not replaced in sb atleast take it out of md....
I still like him for the Double Strike, but Stillmoon is probably better.
I do like the new guys double strike but Still moon is just too superior to replace. Flying, pumping and Pro black and white is much better. I can see maybe the new guy for the big green guys but he might not have an actual slot.
has anybody thought about using Light from Within? I used to run a block deck with that and cards like Hearthfire Hobgoblin, Kitchen Finks, etc... The doublestrike of Hobgoblin and Crusader would both get pretty nasty with that on the board.
has anyone considered Hero of Bladehold with Windbrisk Heights?
This doesn't work:
Quote from Windbrisk Heights Ruling »
10/1/2007: At the time the ability resolves, you'll get to play the card if you declared three different creatures as attackers at any point in the turn. A creature declared as an attacker in two different attack phases counts only once. A creature that entered the battlefield attacking (such as a token created by Militia's Pride) doesn't count because you never attacked with it
that aside i think i can give a few pointers if your interested.
1. drop Goldmeadow Stalwart down to 3... figure of destiny is far superior.
2. unless you see alot of red in ur meta, drop burrenton forge-tenders to the side.... to be funny you could add some signal pest (lol @ kithkin with battlecry) but i would bump up Knight of meadowgrain to 4
3. with the remaining 2 slots i would add oblivion ring to the main... its litterally the best removal white has.
4. i wouldnt go over 22 lands... that being said i wouldnt really play too many 5 drops Cloudgoat ranger being an exception, that would leave you with an additional 3 slots. if you can get your hands on them, Stillmoon Cavalier is awesome/techy.
just my two cents
control was always a hard match for kithkin, its not fast enough to finish the job by turn 3 but doesnt have the stupid good late game cards (FU Cruel Ultimatum) at least im assuming your talking about five color control... tho fairies was annoying too.
that aside i think i can give a few pointers if your interested.
1. drop Goldmeadow Stalwart down to 3... figure of destiny is far superior.
2. unless you see alot of red in ur meta, drop burrenton forge-tenders to the side.... to be funny you could add some signal pest (lol @ kithkin with battlecry) but i would bump up Knight of meadowgrain to 4
3. with the remaining 2 slots i would add oblivion ring to the main... its litterally the best removal white has.
4. i wouldnt go over 22 lands... that being said i wouldnt really play too many 5 drops Cloudgoat ranger being an exception, that would leave you with an additional 3 slots. if you can get your hands on them, Stillmoon Cavalier is awesome/techy.
just my two cents
control was always a hard match for kithkin, its not fast enough to finish the job by turn 3 but doesnt have the stupid good late game cards (FU Cruel Ultimatum) at least im assuming your talking about five color control... tho fairies was annoying too.
Haha, Kithkin are fun. I'll take your points in response as follows:
1. Hmm, I'll test that, thanks! The only issue I might have with that is that turn one Stalwart curves to well into a Lord or Honor of the Pure.
2. Burrenton is amust-have main-deck IMO. Volcanic Fallout, Firespout, and to some extent the new Slagstorm see play main-decked. If you don't want to just outright die to a few of these, you need to keep some Burrenton main-decked, as to continue the assault without needing to play around sweepers. Any other ideas what to drop for Meadowgrain?
3. Hmm... IDK, I haven't found myself needing it main decked yet, but I'll see how it works.
4. I'll cut those down, sure. What should I bump up? Knight and what?
Also, like I said, it requires a bit of thinking to win control matchups, not that they are impossible
Also, I was about to bring up Pest. Has anyone tried it in a more traditional list like this?:
I played WW quite a bit before rotation...it was strong then so I've been thinking about WW in extended.
I've been testing several different builds, with varying degrees of success. I think I've come to the conclusion that splashing blue barely affects the mana base at all and adds a few nice cards, so I'm looking at going down that route.
I've found this to be the most effective straight white build. The allies are powerful by themselves (2/2 vig first strike is nice...3/3 is great) but can easily be buffed by grabbing 2 more freeblades with the Ranger. Nonetheless, even though i feel like Lapse of Certainty is very necessary given the combo and control meta, it still was agonizing slow at 3cc.
The non ally blue splash build. Testing pretty nicely, although occasionally the heights + colonade can slow down the early game some.
I've also tested a knights build. It offers more raw power in terms of creature synergy, but at the cost of pumping up the mana curve. I'm not sure making the deck more mid-range is the way to go. We'll see
Took my Wu Weenie build to a Prq today. I went 4-3. I felt very good about the deck.
R1: Fae 2-0
R2: Wargate: 0-2 (he was at 1 both games..played out omen and scapeshift on the same turn twice
R3: RDW 2-0 cakewalk
R4: Pestermite combo/control 0-2 (t3 pestermite, t4 splintertwin sucks)
R5: Naya 2-0
R6: Fae 0-2 (Severe mana screw and mull problems. Still almost took g2 for the draw
R7: Bant 2-1
As I was afraid, the deck pretty much auto-loses to combo g1, which is why I added blue. The blue helped, but I still lost 2 very close matches to combo decks. The fae deck was simply losing to muls and mana screw.
I found that my 1 of Ajani Goldmane and Elspeth Tirel really pulled their weight. Best cards in the deck were honor, spectral procession, path, and brave. The worst cards main were Leyline of Sanctity and the mana-base, which made me mull a lot.
It ran brilliantly for me. I was never mana screwed, so that's a good thing. I always seemed to have a 1-drop when I needed it, a 2-drop when I needed it, etc.
Thoughts?
I'm not 100% sure of all your 4-ofs. Elite vanguard also seems iffy, but if has been working for you, go with it. I'd also up ranger to 3x since you have so many 1 drops.
You need to run 4x windbrisk heights. It is one of the best cards in the deck. period.
Other than that, the list looks very solid. Have you tried the new elspeth instead of the older one? She was absolutely insane for me.
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I'm thinking about removing the Squire for FoD but i'm not sure as the synergy is good. Also Burrenton Forge-Tender over Kor Firewalker...Any thoughts?
Burrenton is definitely better. Kor is basically dead vs RG Scapeshift, while Burrenton will usually force them to wait for Omen to cast Scapeshift. I was thinking about a metal Weenie list, maybe something like:
I played WW last night at FNM and went 3-0 with it. I lost one game because I mulled to 5 and kept a one land hand, didn't draw a land for 7 turns.
Essentially ran Knights (no exemplar), Figures, and 7 Allies w/ 3 Elspeth KE and Path/Honor/Brave the Elements. Also one of Baneslayer for games that went deep for some reason.
Was fast, strong, and recovered well from board wipes.
I beat (in order)
RW Boros
BR Control/Demigod
Mono White Control
Seems good, when my Student of Warfares and my Ranger of Eos makes it here I'll post an actual decklist.
Thanks to arête and Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Signature and Avatar!
so heres my list of knights/ww
4x windbrisk heights
19x plains
creatures
4x figure of destiny
4x student of warfare
4x knight exemplar
4x knight of th meadowgrain
4x knight of the white orchid
3x thistledown leige
4x honor the pure
4x brave the elements
4x spectral procession
2x ajani goldmane
4x tectonic edge
4x leyline of sanctity
3x burrenton forge-tender
4x path to exile
hero of bladehold could be in the spot of thistledown liege (they are both knights) but im liking thistledown's ability to be played at end of opponents turn vs faeries so they counter and you can run out what ever you want in your turn. and the fact that it doesnt have to survive a whole turn to have an effect on the board other then to block. but bladehold does dominate by itself once it gets to attack and even better if there is more creatures out.
the deck runs 13 anthem effects so it can get out of vollcanic fallout range very fast and exemplar can hold off day of judgement hopefully
exemplar also combined with multiple firststrike dudes allows the deck to just dominate the midrange creature based decks.
have not had much testing vs jund or rdw but ww has always just rolled rdw anyways.
im like 8-3 vs faeries. the only way you lose is getting stuck on 3 mana (never actually lost from this) or getting cryptic command chains. as mistbind isnt actually that great if you are running liege
If you're gonna run WG, why not Knight of the Reliquary?
I really need to look this over since there is a PTQ in LA on February 12... too bad Paris is that same weekend and not sooner.
4 Student of Warfare
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight Exemplar
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Brave the Elements
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Spectral Procession
Lands
2 Tectonic Edge
18 Plains
3 Path to Exile
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Runed Halo
2 Leyline of Sanctity
Stillmoon, Mirran Crusader and Leyline vs. Faeries
That takes care of the 2 biggest extended threats.
if not replaced in sb atleast take it out of md....
I still like him for the Double Strike, but Stillmoon is probably better.
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4x Elite Vanguard
4x Student of Warfare
4x Kor Firewalker
4x White Knight
4x Knight Exemplar
3x Stillmoon Cavalier
3x Mirran Crusader
2x Sun Titan
4x Path to Exile
4x Brave the Elements
3x Honor of the Pure
Land: 20
18x Plains
2x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
has anybody thought about using Light from Within? I used to run a block deck with that and cards like Hearthfire Hobgoblin, Kitchen Finks, etc... The doublestrike of Hobgoblin and Crusader would both get pretty nasty with that on the board.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
This doesn't work:
12 Plains
4 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
Creatures: 22
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
4 Wizened Cenn
3 Knight of Meadowgrain
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Ranger of Eos
2 Cloudgoat Ranger
4 Spectral Procession
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ajani Goldmane
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Oblivion Ring
3 ?
2 Reveillark
2 Leonin Arbiter
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
awww..... i miss my kithkin deck
that aside i think i can give a few pointers if your interested.
1. drop Goldmeadow Stalwart down to 3... figure of destiny is far superior.
2. unless you see alot of red in ur meta, drop burrenton forge-tenders to the side.... to be funny you could add some signal pest (lol @ kithkin with battlecry) but i would bump up Knight of meadowgrain to 4
3. with the remaining 2 slots i would add oblivion ring to the main... its litterally the best removal white has.
4. i wouldnt go over 22 lands... that being said i wouldnt really play too many 5 drops Cloudgoat ranger being an exception, that would leave you with an additional 3 slots. if you can get your hands on them, Stillmoon Cavalier is awesome/techy.
just my two cents
control was always a hard match for kithkin, its not fast enough to finish the job by turn 3 but doesnt have the stupid good late game cards (FU Cruel Ultimatum) at least im assuming your talking about five color control... tho fairies was annoying too.
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Modern Lists:
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Kithkin
Haha, Kithkin are fun. I'll take your points in response as follows:
1. Hmm, I'll test that, thanks! The only issue I might have with that is that turn one Stalwart curves to well into a Lord or Honor of the Pure.
2. Burrenton is amust-have main-deck IMO. Volcanic Fallout, Firespout, and to some extent the new Slagstorm see play main-decked. If you don't want to just outright die to a few of these, you need to keep some Burrenton main-decked, as to continue the assault without needing to play around sweepers. Any other ideas what to drop for Meadowgrain?
3. Hmm... IDK, I haven't found myself needing it main decked yet, but I'll see how it works.
4. I'll cut those down, sure. What should I bump up? Knight and what?
Also, like I said, it requires a bit of thinking to win control matchups, not that they are impossible
Also, I was about to bring up Pest. Has anyone tried it in a more traditional list like this?:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
14 Plains
Creatures: 23
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
3 Equipment
4 Spectral Procession
I've been testing several different builds, with varying degrees of success. I think I've come to the conclusion that splashing blue barely affects the mana base at all and adds a few nice cards, so I'm looking at going down that route.
Anyway, here are the few lists I've been testing:
16x Plains
4x Windbrisk Heights
1x Gargoyle Castle
4x Student of Warfare
4x Hada Freeblade
3x Path to Exile
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
3x Brave the elements
4x Kazandu Blademaster
4x Spectral Procession
3x Lapse of Certainty
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Ranger of Eos
2x Talus Paladin
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x War priest of Thune
2x Runed Halo
2x Oversoul of Dusk
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Kor Sanctifiers
1x Leyline of Sanctity
I've found this to be the most effective straight white build. The allies are powerful by themselves (2/2 vig first strike is nice...3/3 is great) but can easily be buffed by grabbing 2 more freeblades with the Ranger. Nonetheless, even though i feel like Lapse of Certainty is very necessary given the combo and control meta, it still was agonizing slow at 3cc.
This leads me to the next build:
8x Plains
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Windbrisk Heights
3x Mystic Gate
2x Celestial Colonade
4x Student of Warfare
3x Path to Exile
3x Brave The elements
3x Figure of Destiny
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Knight of the Meadowgrain
1x Negate
3x Meddling Mage
3x Honor the Pure
4x Spectral Procession
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Ranger of Eos
3x War priest of Thune
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x Day of Judgement
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Runed Halo
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Negate
The non ally blue splash build. Testing pretty nicely, although occasionally the heights + colonade can slow down the early game some.
I've also tested a knights build. It offers more raw power in terms of creature synergy, but at the cost of pumping up the mana curve. I'm not sure making the deck more mid-range is the way to go. We'll see
9x Plains
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Windbrisk Heights
3x Mystic Gate
2x Celestial Colonade
4x Student of Warfare
3x Path to Exile
3x Brave The elements
4x Knight of the Meadowgrain
4x Sigiled Paladin
4x Honor the Pure
4x Knight Exemplar
3x Spectral Procession
2x Hero of Bladehold
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier
2x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x Meddling Mage
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Runed Halo
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Negate
I'm still deciding between builds, but I'm think meddling mage and mana leak have sold me on a blue splash.
Notice that I'm not playing knight of the white orchid or stoneforge mystic due to leonin arbiter in the side.
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"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
R1: Fae 2-0
R2: Wargate: 0-2 (he was at 1 both games..played out omen and scapeshift on the same turn twice
R3: RDW 2-0 cakewalk
R4: Pestermite combo/control 0-2 (t3 pestermite, t4 splintertwin sucks)
R5: Naya 2-0
R6: Fae 0-2 (Severe mana screw and mull problems. Still almost took g2 for the draw
R7: Bant 2-1
As I was afraid, the deck pretty much auto-loses to combo g1, which is why I added blue. The blue helped, but I still lost 2 very close matches to combo decks. The fae deck was simply losing to muls and mana screw.
I found that my 1 of Ajani Goldmane and Elspeth Tirel really pulled their weight. Best cards in the deck were honor, spectral procession, path, and brave. The worst cards main were Leyline of Sanctity and the mana-base, which made me mull a lot.
Standard
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Modern
BWUTeachingsBWU
GUGU TempoGU
WLifeW
RWValakut ControlRW
UBModern MillUB
Legacy
UMUCU
BPoxB
BWRTokensBWR
Pauper
UBGRW Domain UBGRW
Vintage
RVise-Burn!R
"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
4 Student of Warfare
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Ranger of Eos
1 Ajani Goldmane
4 Brave the Elements
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Spectral Procession
It ran brilliantly for me. I was never mana screwed, so that's a good thing. I always seemed to have a 1-drop when I needed it, a 2-drop when I needed it, etc.
Thoughts?
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EDIT: What are the opinions on Hero of Bladehold, Accorder Paladin, and Signal Pest?
krackshott made this ^
Proudly back from a hiatus!
I'm not 100% sure of all your 4-ofs. Elite vanguard also seems iffy, but if has been working for you, go with it. I'd also up ranger to 3x since you have so many 1 drops.
You need to run 4x windbrisk heights. It is one of the best cards in the deck. period.
Other than that, the list looks very solid. Have you tried the new elspeth instead of the older one? She was absolutely insane for me.
Standard
Blows
Modern
BWUTeachingsBWU
GUGU TempoGU
WLifeW
RWValakut ControlRW
UBModern MillUB
Legacy
UMUCU
BPoxB
BWRTokensBWR
Pauper
UBGRW Domain UBGRW
Vintage
RVise-Burn!R
"Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight was ever made" - Immanuel Kant
18 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Windbrisk Heights
Creatures:
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Akrasan Squire
4 Captain of the Watch
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Veteran Armorsmith
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Ajani Goldmane
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Celestial Purge
3 Divine Offering
3 Lapse of Certainty
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ranger of Eos
I'm thinking about removing the Squire for FoD but i'm not sure as the synergy is good. Also Burrenton Forge-Tender over Kor Firewalker...Any thoughts?
4 Court Homologous
4 Signal Pest
4 Figure of Destiny/Elite Vanguard
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Ajani Goldmane
3 Contested Warzone
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Essentially ran Knights (no exemplar), Figures, and 7 Allies w/ 3 Elspeth KE and Path/Honor/Brave the Elements. Also one of Baneslayer for games that went deep for some reason.
Was fast, strong, and recovered well from board wipes.
I beat (in order)
RW Boros
BR Control/Demigod
Mono White Control
Seems good, when my Student of Warfares and my Ranger of Eos makes it here I'll post an actual decklist.
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