nice looking list, i like the ability of harbinger to tutor for more dorans as well as the mana, along with the changeling removal, also with rotation coming ( im not sure if im allowed to mention it yet ) you only lose a few cards, goyf can easily be replaced possibly another knight or even stoneforge mystyic, fauna shaman, one thing I would want to test is chameleon colossus, against the jund and faeries matchups its very strong and can be fetched up with harbinger
Chameleon Colossus is a "treefolk" and is big and bomby. Give it flying with Elspeth, Knight Errant and he can be a quick end. He also dodges a lot of removal except for the white crap.
I like the list however wouldn't Loam Lion be better off as steppe lynx instead? Or possibly just run both? Maybe even a singleton ranger of eos to fetch lion/lynx/harbinger? Definately love the interaction of the deck.
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I like the list however wouldn't Loam Lion be better off as steppe lynx instead? Or possibly just run both? Maybe even a singleton ranger of eos to fetch lion/lynx/harbinger? Definately love the interaction of the deck.
The reason why they are playing Loam Lion is because of its interaction with Murmuring Bosk, you can go t1 Fetch -> Bosk -> Loam Lion who is a 2/3 on turn 1 so its essentially the new Kird ape.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
The reason why they are playing Loam Lion is because of its interaction with Murmuring Bosk, you can go t1 Fetch -> Bosk -> Loam Lion who is a 2/3 on turn 1 so its essentially the new Kird ape.
That's fine and all but kird ape was really only good in Zoo and as such I would rather have a turn 1 0/1 creature then on turn 2 power out a 4/5 with a fetchland or at least a 2/3 with a regular land....now if we play both then sure why not....but Lynx just seems stronger is all
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“Anyone who does not love, does not know God, for God is love” (1 John 4:8, NLT).
Jesus told him, “Iam the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6
I think a combination of stag and colossus can fill the goyf spot or you can go the nighthawk route too. All a meta/personal choice kind of thing.
The debate over lynx or lion is more of a meta/personal choice. lynx can get big with the right draws but in the end is a 0/1 blocker most times (1/1 with doran out)
You lose pacts and rule of law also but seems easy to fill those slots.
but loam lion is consistantly a 2/3 or a 3/3 with doran out where steppe lynx requires the land fall to be a real threat, although he can push through damage on a much higher level i think either one is a good call, i just think lion fits a bit better here
edit: loam lion also doesnt die to "trigger on the stack punishing fire" so that may have been the reasoning behind this
but loam lion is consistantly a 2/3 or a 3/3 with doran out where steppe lynx requires the land fall to be a real threat, although he can push through damage on a much higher level i think either one is a good call, i just think lion fits a bit better here
edit: loam lion also doesnt die to "trigger on the stack punishing fire" so that may have been the reasoning behind this
i'm not suggesting running lynx over lion, i'm suggesting both.
as for the pfire, it rotates in a month before any more major events will be played...tho i imagine doran did so well in part that all of it's creatures were 3 toughness or higher.
I am taking a different direction with Doran, with a more disruptive, midrange strategy. A slightly slower deck should do better against hyper-aggressive decks like mono-red and white weenie. It is also fine against faeries as a turn 1 birds or noble hierarch can put you pretty far ahead.
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Tarmogoyf is such a good blue card that you cannot pitch it to force of will. It is meant to be played.
the WW deck that had 2 top 8s ran lynx with 8 fetches, same number doran runs and it seemed to work fine for them
additionally marsh flats is also in color if we needed to run more
You are comparing 2 different types of decks. WW is a straigh aggro deck that likes beats early and often. Doran is a midrange deck where your critters are meant to survive an onslaught.
Also, flagstones fueled lynx t some huge beats which are rotating.
For those who still think that Doran is a "midrange" deck, you are sadly mistaken. Doran will be the new Zoo deck for the coming format alongside Naya if Sparkmage and Bloodbraid are enough for the the red over black (which it might be because it is strong against Fae).
I would assume that Doran is going to look something like this:
Well I figure the Important thing is what does this deck beat, as fae looks like it may be a hard match. I expect the metagame to be Doran, Fae, Jund, Merfolk, and Prolly a Control varient.
For those who still think that Doran is a "midrange" deck, you are sadly mistaken. Doran will be the new Zoo deck for the coming format alongside Naya if Sparkmage and Bloodbraid are enough for the the red over black (which it might be because it is strong against Fae).
I would assume that Doran is going to look something like this:
If you want to have a chance against fea you need more GSS and colossus. That being said, if fea doesnt come to the front strong I can see this build being fairly popular. I still perfer nighthawk in the build since it deals with so much.
You are comparing 2 different types of decks. WW is a straigh aggro deck that likes beats early and often. Doran is a midrange deck where your critters are meant to survive an onslaught.
Also, flagstones fueled lynx t some huge beats which are rotating.
For those who still think that Doran is a "midrange" deck, you are sadly mistaken. Doran will be the new Zoo deck for the coming format alongside Naya if Sparkmage and Bloodbraid are enough for the the red over black (which it might be because it is strong against Fae).
this ^
if the most efficient creatures are in white black green there is no reason a "zoo strategy" is not possible.
So post rotation, what to we play instead of Tarmogoyf? Do we run mana accelerants or some other bigger stuff say like a 4th Knight of the Reliquary and something else?
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I see there are different thoughts on what deck lists should look like and how the deck should play. Losing the punishing fire combo in the format should push Doran to the midrange spot. Yes it can be built to be dark zoo, but thats a different thought process all together.
The synergy between harbinger, bosk and doran leaves little room for birds and/or noble. Start pushing too many mana dorks into the build and then you are relying on Doran to hit, stick, and win you the game. In most builds Doran isnt needed to win, but hes nice to have.
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Rock decks, etc.
Loam Lion's a cool new addition, I guess.
>Insert comment about Doran not winning events.
>Troll all following posters.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Murmuring Bosk
3 Reflecting Pool
1 Swamp
3 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loam Lion
4 Putrid Leech
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Treefolk Harbinger
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Thoughtseize
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crib Swap
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Infest
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Reveillark
2 Rule of Law
1 Slaughter Pact
Please keep comments on topic.
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Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
Trade:
The reason why they are playing Loam Lion is because of its interaction with Murmuring Bosk, you can go t1 Fetch -> Bosk -> Loam Lion who is a 2/3 on turn 1 so its essentially the new Kird ape.
That's fine and all but kird ape was really only good in Zoo and as such I would rather have a turn 1 0/1 creature then on turn 2 power out a 4/5 with a fetchland or at least a 2/3 with a regular land....now if we play both then sure why not....but Lynx just seems stronger is all
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
Trade:
The debate over lynx or lion is more of a meta/personal choice. lynx can get big with the right draws but in the end is a 0/1 blocker most times (1/1 with doran out)
You lose pacts and rule of law also but seems easy to fill those slots.
what?
the WW deck that had 2 top 8s ran lynx with 8 fetches, same number doran runs and it seemed to work fine for them
additionally marsh flats is also in color if we needed to run more
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
edit: loam lion also doesnt die to "trigger on the stack punishing fire" so that may have been the reasoning behind this
i'm not suggesting running lynx over lion, i'm suggesting both.
as for the pfire, it rotates in a month before any more major events will be played...tho i imagine doran did so well in part that all of it's creatures were 3 toughness or higher.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
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Tarmogoyf is such a good blue card that you cannot pitch it to force of will. It is meant to be played.
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWEnchantressWG
You are comparing 2 different types of decks. WW is a straigh aggro deck that likes beats early and often. Doran is a midrange deck where your critters are meant to survive an onslaught.
Also, flagstones fueled lynx t some huge beats which are rotating.
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I would assume that Doran is going to look something like this:
4x Doran, the Siege Tower
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Loam Lion
4x Putrid Leech
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Treefolk Harbinger
1x Ranger of Eos
4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Nameless Inversion
Lands(23)
4x Murmuring Bosk
4x Verdant Catacomb
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Stirring Wildwood
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Reflecting Pool
2x Marsh Flats
1x Swamp
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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If you want to have a chance against fea you need more GSS and colossus. That being said, if fea doesnt come to the front strong I can see this build being fairly popular. I still perfer nighthawk in the build since it deals with so much.
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Tarmogoyf is such a good blue card that you cannot pitch it to force of will. It is meant to be played.
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWEnchantressWG
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
this ^
if the most efficient creatures are in white black green there is no reason a "zoo strategy" is not possible.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
considering one of the cornerstones of the deck is a 0/3 with no other abilities while in play, i think you might want to rethink that argument.
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considering it fetches a 5/5 for 3 that makes it a 3/3 for G i don't think so
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
The synergy between harbinger, bosk and doran leaves little room for birds and/or noble. Start pushing too many mana dorks into the build and then you are relying on Doran to hit, stick, and win you the game. In most builds Doran isnt needed to win, but hes nice to have.