Not really. It draws three cards when EtB. That's dredging 15-18 cards.
Not to mention it puts the dredgers back in the GY or an Iona in hand. It really is sick as hell, especially in Extended Dredge (without Tireless Tribe and whatnot).
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
He's talking about if Iona is stuck in your hand, the sphinx allows you to dump it.
I think bloodghast is really sick in this deck. It reminds me of Ichorid. It's basically a free sac outlet to dread return. (Or should it be dredge return? yuk yuk yuk) Should be at least a 3 of. getting all of them in the yard allows you to basically cast 2 dread returns for free if you have a fetch land to play. play fetch, return them to play, sac them to return something, crack the fetch, repeat.
They help with some of the "easily splashed" anti-dredge, like Yixlid Jailer and Meddling Mage. Other than that, I am not entirely sure what else it is for.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I really wish I could find a way to put in a 4th bloodghast, but I'm already only running 2 ideas unbound, and that would probably be the first thing I would want to add.
They help with some of the "easily splashed" anti-dredge, like Yixlid Jailer and Meddling Mage. Other than that, I am not entirely sure what else it is for.
I really wish I could find a way to put in a 4th bloodghast, but I'm already only running 2 ideas unbound, and that would probably be the first thing I would want to add.
i would take out the dakmor salvage. youonle have two and you honestly can dredge fine with out them.
had an ext tourny last night at local store with a pretty good turn out. i went undefeated and 2-0'd all the compitition. this was the decklist, pretty standard i quess.
i would have prefered that the Spell Pierce had been Nix. however the spell pierce proved to be an all-star in a couple games, were as the nix would not have been. the SB was completely based on my local meta.
alot of good decks were running around such as, a couple rubin zoo, thopterhex, affinity, NLB, and cascade. i had a couple of grinding games but pulled thru in the clutch with what i think was the best play in every given senario.
i love the deck, but probebly wont play it again any time soon cause that is what they will be expecting. gotta keep em' on their toes.
i would take out the dakmor salvage. youonle have two and you honestly can dredge fine with out them.
I disagree. Against decks with hate, Dakmor Salvage is actually relevant. There will be times where you want to dredge back a land to trigger Bloodghasts and Hedron Crabs. Life from the Loam is good, but there are times where you want your mana open for other things.
20 lands is better than 19 because I do find myself hardcasting Sphinx and Dread Return and Grave-Trolls, besides Stinkweed Imps.
I find 2 Dakmor Salvage to be optimal. Besides, if you face a deck with dedicated hate, you often find yourself siding out 2 Ideas Unbound, 1 Flame-kin Zealot and 1-2 Glimpse the Unthinkable, however, it is actually possible to side out 2 Grave-Trolls as well because Grave-Troll is really just for dredging and is actually useless versus most graveyard removal. Having 2 Salvage allows one to side out 2 Troll and still keep the dredging engine.
The 1 mana drops, 4 Narco, 3 Ghast, 4 Stinkweed, 4 Bridge, 3 Dread are all core and should not be touched or sided out.
Against decks with graveyard hate, Dredge mostly wins by attrition war by pushing through damage with attackers like Rusulkas and Narcos and Bloodghasts and getting 3-6 Zombie tokens, hardcasting Stinkweeds, Trolls, Sphinxs and Dread Returns and recurring Bloodghasts. Seasoned players of dredge should know this and be very familiar with how Dredge wins against hate. Not through pure combo, but through attrition war and good decisions. Knowing the stack well, knowing when to dredge or draw and most importantly, knowing what type of hands to keep and predicting what cards your opponent has in their hand.
I would have prefered that the Spell Pierce had been Nix. however the spell pierce proved to be an all-star in a couple games, were as the nix would not have been. the SB was completely based on my local meta.
alot of good decks were running around such as, a couple rubin zoo, thopterhex, affinity, NLB, and cascade. i had a couple of grinding games but pulled thru in the clutch with what i think was the best play in every given senario.
i love the deck, but probebly wont play it again any time soon cause that is what they will be expecting. gotta keep em' on their toes.
When did counter in the SB become a good choice? The last time I sugggested it, I was eaten out by the forum, because it was apparently "stupid" to have more answers to GY hate and Hypergenesis.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
nix is good against crypts and traps..it can handle handle hypergenesis on its own and is a bad news for AIR howeever relevant that deck might become in the following months.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Shimizu's original list (at the start of the thread) had 3 Tombstalkers in the SB, what do you guys think those are there for? What matchups in particular, and what do you side out for them?
i wanted the nix cause i knew hypergen would be there. crypts were boarded in but i didnt see them the whole time (wasnt too worried about them in the first place). however not only did spell peirce work against hypergen g2, but it single handedly won me the game against NLB on g2.
round 1 i played against a rouge cascade deck, that cascades into living end and main decked 4x leyline of the void. he mulled to 4 G1 and didnt see leyline so i won pretty easy. G2 i sided in extirpate and he opened with leyline. and i milled him as fast as i could with double crab and glimpse, hit his living end and extirpate'd it. ended up milling him FTW < dont know why i wanted to mention that it was just kinda fun.
yeah crab mill for alt win con! I can say that that decklist KaNcEr is running is the standard that I've seen aside from land and Sb.
I can;t think of a better list.
Shimizu's original list (at the start of the thread) had 3 Tombstalkers in the SB, what do you guys think those are there for? What matchups in particular, and what do you side out for them?
Tombstalkers are their so you can Dredge early and still abuse it before your opponent it able to react with hate.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
The questions I have involve mulligan decisions. I'm having trouble figuring out which hands to keep to go off turn 2 or 3. Also, what would I board out to bring in 3 Echoing Truth vs. grave hate?
Thanks for your help.
If you replace "cards" with "deck" in your tags, it formats your list for you.
Im putting a pretty standard drege deck together but dont want to spend 60 on a playset of glimpse. I was thinking about running Tolarian Winds instead. Im thinking that as long as I have anything with dredge already in the graveyard it should work as an effective budget alternative. Anyone whos played the deck have any thoughts or an alternative I might want to consider?
Not really. It draws three cards when EtB. That's dredging 15-18 cards.
Not to mention it puts the dredgers back in the GY or an Iona in hand. It really is sick as hell, especially in Extended Dredge (without Tireless Tribe and whatnot).
I think bloodghast is really sick in this deck. It reminds me of Ichorid. It's basically a free sac outlet to dread return. (Or should it be dredge return? yuk yuk yuk) Should be at least a 3 of. getting all of them in the yard allows you to basically cast 2 dread returns for free if you have a fetch land to play. play fetch, return them to play, sac them to return something, crack the fetch, repeat.
totally sick.
They help with some of the "easily splashed" anti-dredge, like Yixlid Jailer and Meddling Mage. Other than that, I am not entirely sure what else it is for.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Glimpse
2 Ideas Unbound
2 Dakmor Salvage
3 Dread Return
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Iona
1 FKZ
3 Bloodghast
4 Drowned Rusalka
4 Hedron Crab
1 Life from the Loam
18 Other lands (10 fetches, 8 things to fetch)
I really wish I could find a way to put in a 4th bloodghast, but I'm already only running 2 ideas unbound, and that would probably be the first thing I would want to add.
Gaddock Teeg as well.
i would take out the dakmor salvage. youonle have two and you honestly can dredge fine with out them.
I agree with this, the original list had 3 ideas unbound, but since I only had 2, I put in a 2nd salvage.
The store does 2hg extended once a month, so I'll be playing this tomorrow on a team with my friend who will be piloting hive mind.
2x Watery Grave
2x Breeding Pool
1x Steam Vents
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dakmor Salvage
2x Island
1x Swamp
Creature:
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Flame-kin Zaelot
1x Sphinx of Lost Truths
3x Bloodghast
4x Drowned Rasulka
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Hedron Crab
4x Narcomoeba
4x Bridge from Below
Sorcery:
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable
3x Ideas Unbound
3x Dread Return
1x Life from the Loam
2x Pithing Needle
3x Echoing Truth
1x Darkblast
2x Ancient Grudge
4x Spell Pierce
1x Extirpate
1x Bloodghast
1x Ancestor's Chosen
i would have prefered that the Spell Pierce had been Nix. however the spell pierce proved to be an all-star in a couple games, were as the nix would not have been. the SB was completely based on my local meta.
alot of good decks were running around such as, a couple rubin zoo, thopterhex, affinity, NLB, and cascade. i had a couple of grinding games but pulled thru in the clutch with what i think was the best play in every given senario.
i love the deck, but probebly wont play it again any time soon cause that is what they will be expecting. gotta keep em' on their toes.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
I disagree. Against decks with hate, Dakmor Salvage is actually relevant. There will be times where you want to dredge back a land to trigger Bloodghasts and Hedron Crabs. Life from the Loam is good, but there are times where you want your mana open for other things.
20 lands is better than 19 because I do find myself hardcasting Sphinx and Dread Return and Grave-Trolls, besides Stinkweed Imps.
I find 2 Dakmor Salvage to be optimal. Besides, if you face a deck with dedicated hate, you often find yourself siding out 2 Ideas Unbound, 1 Flame-kin Zealot and 1-2 Glimpse the Unthinkable, however, it is actually possible to side out 2 Grave-Trolls as well because Grave-Troll is really just for dredging and is actually useless versus most graveyard removal. Having 2 Salvage allows one to side out 2 Troll and still keep the dredging engine.
The 1 mana drops, 4 Narco, 3 Ghast, 4 Stinkweed, 4 Bridge, 3 Dread are all core and should not be touched or sided out.
Against decks with graveyard hate, Dredge mostly wins by attrition war by pushing through damage with attackers like Rusulkas and Narcos and Bloodghasts and getting 3-6 Zombie tokens, hardcasting Stinkweeds, Trolls, Sphinxs and Dread Returns and recurring Bloodghasts. Seasoned players of dredge should know this and be very familiar with how Dredge wins against hate. Not through pure combo, but through attrition war and good decisions. Knowing the stack well, knowing when to dredge or draw and most importantly, knowing what type of hands to keep and predicting what cards your opponent has in their hand.
When did counter in the SB become a good choice? The last time I sugggested it, I was eaten out by the forum, because it was apparently "stupid" to have more answers to GY hate and Hypergenesis.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
round 1 i played against a rouge cascade deck, that cascades into living end and main decked 4x leyline of the void. he mulled to 4 G1 and didnt see leyline so i won pretty easy. G2 i sided in extirpate and he opened with leyline. and i milled him as fast as i could with double crab and glimpse, hit his living end and extirpate'd it. ended up milling him FTW < dont know why i wanted to mention that it was just kinda fun.
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Legacy
Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
I can;t think of a better list.
Sales
Legacy
Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
Tombstalkers are their so you can Dredge early and still abuse it before your opponent it able to react with hate.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Watery Grave
3 Bloodghast
4 Drowned Rusalka
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Hedron Crab
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Narcomoeba
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Dread Return
3 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Darkblast
4 Echoing Truth
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Nix
3 Tombstalker
The questions I have involve mulligan decisions. I'm having trouble figuring out which hands to keep to go off turn 2 or 3. Also, what would I board out to bring in 3 Echoing Truth vs. grave hate?
Thanks for your help.
If you replace "cards" with "deck" in your tags, it formats your list for you.