Volcanic Fallout seems like it could devestate Fae and Elves. Anyone think that this archtype may get stronger post-Conflux?
I am concerned about Path to Exile, but what deck is going to be playing that? Zoo? We still have Blood Moon which will buy us a ton of time and I am pretty sure that's a strong MU anyway.
What other concerns should I have this season, because I built this and shuffled it up last night after about a 2 month leave from the game and smashed Elves!, Affinity, and Zoo all with about 65-70% favorable matches and 55% on Doran... I know I can't figure out why Doran was such a challange (but remember I haven't played for 2 months and I was playing sloppy against good online opponents).
I'm personally of the opinion that Path to Exile won't affect AiR too much, and I don't think its going to be affected too much by Conflux unless we get given another cheap red fatty with minimal drawbacks that either has haste or flash-though if someone at this point could clarify for me: If my opponent goes first in a match, can i still react during his turn-for example he drops a 1/1, can i remove Simian Spirit guide from the game to produce R to then shock it?
EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
Single player EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.
I'm personally of the opinion that Path to Exile won't affect AiR too much, and I don't think its going to be affected too much by Conflux unless we get given another cheap red fatty with minimal drawbacks that either has haste or flash-though if someone at this point could clarify for me: If my opponent goes first in a match, can i still react during his turn-for example he drops a 1/1, can i remove Simian Spirit guide from the game to produce R to then shock it?
If my opponent goes first in a match, can i still react during his turn-for example he drops a 1/1, can i remove Simian Spirit guide from the game to produce R to then shock it?
Yeah, but why would you want to? What 1/1 is going to be so game breaking that you would sacrifice CA to kill it on your turn 0? Wouldn't it be better to just Shock it on your turn?
I mean Llanowar Elves are scary but still very killable on turn 2....
That was simply an example but if we did get given a fatty with flash then it could be dropped during our opponents first turn so would be able to attack with it during our turn one... Just a thought really
EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
Single player EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.
I wrote a blog recently about this archetype, outlining a host of creatures that could take the place of Empty the Warrens (due to Engineered Explosives being everywhere). The leading candidate was Arc-Slogger, and the 4/5 actually saw a fair bit of play on Day 2 of Grand Prix-LA. The full GP-LA Day 2 lists are available here, and I know Rashad Miller, who made the deck famous at Pro Tour-Berlin, made the cut. Also, there was an AIR player using Serum Powder maindeck, and Rob Dougherty's version had Jitte and Martyr of Ashes staring as well.
I used both Arc-Slogger and Serum Powder at a PTQ Saturday. The field was mostly Faeries, yet I didn't play 1 Fae deck all day (making 1/2 my sideboard useless). I started off 3-1 but quickly bombed, I lost every game 3 from that point on the turn before I would have killed them.
I played VS 2 Burn, 2 Teps, 1 Elves, The mirror, and 1 Affinity
Arc-Slogger got there against TEPS, I Serum Powdered my opening hand away, led with blood moon then started Slogger beats to get him to 8. In response to Minds Desire I tapped 4 mountains and had EXACTLY 40 cards left in my deck Later in the mirror match Arc-Slogger killed off his threats to let me swing for the win.
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The difference between being funny and being annoying is how often you get punched in the face....
That was simply an example but if we did get given a fatty with flash then it could be dropped during our opponents first turn so would be able to attack with it during our turn one... Just a thought really
That would be very cool, but flash usually appears on blue creatures, and fatties with flash are extremely rare (sure, there's a few like Cloudthresher).
unsummon would work in that case, and be even better than path to exile in my opinion I'd rather have him get stuck with a fat card in hand that he can't play than to provide a land
but then again, no one plays unsummon, and for good reason
Ah, to dream of the day that All-In Red actually becomes popular enough for Unsummon to be good SB-tech...
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I like the idea of arc-slogger and tarox in this deck, it's worth testing. I played at the PTQ in Greensboro, NC this past weekend and didn't do so well. This Archetype was pretty much non-existent at the the PTQ.
I ran into tons of TEPS, elves, and Zoo. Alot of the top tables were affinity, rock, or fae. It seems like people were running enough combo and zoo hate that the other archetypes dominated.
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Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
If you're looking for a list of All-In Red fatty alternatives, you might try this link. It had Tarox and Arc-Slogger a few weeks ago, along with a bunch of other options for replacing Empty the Warrens.
If you're looking for a list of All-In Red fatty alternatives, you might try this link. It had Tarox and Arc-Slogger a few weeks ago, along with a bunch of other options for replacing Empty the Warrens.
-Bill
Bill, those options are nice, but one of the key advantages of warrens is that it only cost 4. Sometimes you can't make 5 mana turn 1, but you could make 4 mana.. and this could be the difference in a mulligan and a playable hand. What we need are the best 4drop options to replace warrens.
I've been playing around with ashenmoor gouger, its not bad, and good later in the game if your big guy gets destroyed.. its only a 3 drop so it seems like there should be something that costs 4 that is better.
some others ive been thinking about are coal stoker.. maybe with gouger to play both on the same turn, or even boldwyr heavyweights.. (probably not but would be ok in some matchups)
any thoughts on the best 4 drop for this deck?
btw: i top8'd the louisville winter king with the base AIR deck (using fealty at the time)
Truthfully, I think it's a very hard argument to make as to why AIR is a good choice for the PTQs post-Conflux. Path to Exile is just so good against the key threats, and when the tempo you gain from spending your hand to 4/5 on the first turn is undone when your opponent simply plays "White Mana, Path", it's a long road to win the PTQ.
That makes the argument for EtW a lot more solid, but we haven't lost the reasons it was bad previously, just gained new reasons why the other cards are now worse, so that's still a rough path. If you want to quickly look up the best four drops for the deck, however, you might try using the Beta Gatherer which allows you to search for red creatures with a specific mana cost in Extended. Here's a link.
Truthfully, I think it's a very hard argument to make as to why AIR is a good choice for the PTQs post-Conflux. Path to Exile is just so good against the key threats, and when the tempo you gain from spending your hand to 4/5 on the first turn is undone when your opponent simply plays "White Mana, Path", it's a long road to win the PTQ.
That makes the argument for EtW a lot more solid, but we haven't lost the reasons it was bad previously, just gained new reasons why the other cards are now worse, so that's still a rough path. If you want to quickly look up the best four drops for the deck, however, you might try using the Beta Gatherer which allows you to search for red creatures with a specific mana cost in Extended. Here's a link.
-Bill
cool thanks. yea i know path hoses us.. but not sure how many extended decks will actually play it. besides that martyr deck white isn't really in a lot of decks. the extra basic land will always trigger in our deck too, so it's helps in recovering. we get volcanic fallout for the sideboard, so conflux isn't all bad.
after looking through gatherer for 4drops.... maybe hothead giant. 4/4 with haste when we use a ritual effect to play it, which we do anyway.
also another thing to think about, is rakdos dragon with hellbent double strike. many times we have empty hands and that plays to his benifit.
This is going to sound completely insane, I haven't started testing yet, but I may try using Goblin Char Belcher... PtE gets lands out of the deck, it will always do double damage, it can be used on turns when you don't have a threat in hand, and nobody will expect it.
thoughts?
maybe including Countryside Crusher too?
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The difference between being funny and being annoying is how often you get punched in the face....
I really like the idea of tarox bladewing. Arc Slogger seems a bit... dunno underwhelming. Great in Legacy Dragon Stompy decks with more consistent mana accel, but here he seems to be quite a bit inferior to either Deus or Demigod. Tarox is easier to cast, allowing for a quick beater even with subpar hands (4 mana is ofc easier then 5). I'll have to test him.
Im a fan of dues, and demigod as well as 4 copied of gobos. 12 threats, thats it. 2 trinisphere main. I think the deck is great as is. if you start to play scared and look for those 3cc and 4cc then you arent playing all in red. Its called that for a reason. 8-10 gobos turn one or two is absolutely amazing. Turn one dues is game and demi comes back later if you kill him and hitting harder cuz he brings friends. Yeah sure there is path but thats one deck deck thats runs a heavy 3-4 copies (life) and maybe a couple in tron, or tezzerator...what are you afraid of seriously... Even then gobs turn one or two is still too fast for life gain or any other deck.
I don't know if it has been discussed before, but does anyone has tested Chandra Nalaar? It can't be Putrefyed or Path to Exiled... It isn't so "all-in" but it's hard to deal with.:rolleyes:
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Agreed with ghostie. Its not a big enough threat for all in red. If they manage to hit you for a few points you loose all that hard work. Burn will just destroy you and yeah thats all i have to say about that. maybe if it was wildspeaker i would say otherwise but that wont happen.
I would cut the chalices, the sloggers and 1 blood moon to get 3-4 Empty the warrens, 1 more land and some artifact hate (Shattering Spree) and if i'm not mistaken your deck has 61 cards, you could also cut 1 Trinisphere
What about Pyrohemia? Turn 1 Pyro locks out Elves, Fae (for awhile) and Zoo.
I am curious about your claim. It seems to like a stretch given the context of the first turn.
If you play Pyrohemia on your first turn at 2RR that probably means you also played some like 1) land 2) accel spell ie desperate rit 3) accel peice ie chrome/ssg 4) pyrohemia.
This scenario leaves you with ~2 or 3 cards in your hand. Now, if you were on the play and dropped this hand no player would ever play a creature on their t1. Your t2 comes and the pyro goes as it is doubtful you have the land to play and happen to have a creature at the mana cost to play. A lot of this is mitigated if they go first you the pyro in on the draw. However, why would someone even want to play pryo t1? It seems like a nice t3 card.
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I am concerned about Path to Exile, but what deck is going to be playing that? Zoo? We still have Blood Moon which will buy us a ton of time and I am pretty sure that's a strong MU anyway.
What other concerns should I have this season, because I built this and shuffled it up last night after about a 2 month leave from the game and smashed Elves!, Affinity, and Zoo all with about 65-70% favorable matches and 55% on Doran... I know I can't figure out why Doran was such a challange (but remember I haven't played for 2 months and I was playing sloppy against good online opponents).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
On building a Celestial Kirin Stax EDH:
yes
Yeah, but why would you want to? What 1/1 is going to be so game breaking that you would sacrifice CA to kill it on your turn 0? Wouldn't it be better to just Shock it on your turn?
I mean Llanowar Elves are scary but still very killable on turn 2....
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
On building a Celestial Kirin Stax EDH:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21981
Take that for whatever it's worth.
-Bill
I played VS 2 Burn, 2 Teps, 1 Elves, The mirror, and 1 Affinity
Arc-Slogger got there against TEPS, I Serum Powdered my opening hand away, led with blood moon then started Slogger beats to get him to 8. In response to Minds Desire I tapped 4 mountains and had EXACTLY 40 cards left in my deck Later in the mirror match Arc-Slogger killed off his threats to let me swing for the win.
I remember when Jester's Cap was more expensive than Underground Sea
You should read the first post before posting links like this. This list has already been in the first post of this thread for over a month.
That would be very cool, but flash usually appears on blue creatures, and fatties with flash are extremely rare (sure, there's a few like Cloudthresher).
Ah, to dream of the day that All-In Red actually becomes popular enough for Unsummon to be good SB-tech...
- Jon Finkel believes in maintaining a healthy, balanced diet. He gets all his fiber from eating Magic cards for breakfast, and all his protein from eating Magic players for lunch.
I ran into tons of TEPS, elves, and Zoo. Alot of the top tables were affinity, rock, or fae. It seems like people were running enough combo and zoo hate that the other archetypes dominated.
Play at the following shops:
Luckys Card Shop (Greensboro, NC)
Sci-Fi Genre (Durham, NC)
All Fun and Games (Apex, NC)
If you're looking for a list of All-In Red fatty alternatives, you might try this link. It had Tarox and Arc-Slogger a few weeks ago, along with a bunch of other options for replacing Empty the Warrens.
-Bill
Bill, those options are nice, but one of the key advantages of warrens is that it only cost 4. Sometimes you can't make 5 mana turn 1, but you could make 4 mana.. and this could be the difference in a mulligan and a playable hand. What we need are the best 4drop options to replace warrens.
I've been playing around with ashenmoor gouger, its not bad, and good later in the game if your big guy gets destroyed.. its only a 3 drop so it seems like there should be something that costs 4 that is better.
some others ive been thinking about are coal stoker.. maybe with gouger to play both on the same turn, or even boldwyr heavyweights.. (probably not but would be ok in some matchups)
any thoughts on the best 4 drop for this deck?
btw: i top8'd the louisville winter king with the base AIR deck (using fealty at the time)
That makes the argument for EtW a lot more solid, but we haven't lost the reasons it was bad previously, just gained new reasons why the other cards are now worse, so that's still a rough path. If you want to quickly look up the best four drops for the deck, however, you might try using the Beta Gatherer which allows you to search for red creatures with a specific mana cost in Extended. Here's a link.
-Bill
cool thanks. yea i know path hoses us.. but not sure how many extended decks will actually play it. besides that martyr deck white isn't really in a lot of decks. the extra basic land will always trigger in our deck too, so it's helps in recovering. we get volcanic fallout for the sideboard, so conflux isn't all bad.
after looking through gatherer for 4drops.... maybe hothead giant. 4/4 with haste when we use a ritual effect to play it, which we do anyway.
also another thing to think about, is rakdos dragon with hellbent double strike. many times we have empty hands and that plays to his benifit.
thoughts?
maybe including Countryside Crusher too?
I remember when Jester's Cap was more expensive than Underground Sea
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
I would cut the chalices, the sloggers and 1 blood moon to get 3-4 Empty the warrens, 1 more land and some artifact hate (Shattering Spree) and if i'm not mistaken your deck has 61 cards, you could also cut 1 Trinisphere
I am curious about your claim. It seems to like a stretch given the context of the first turn.
If you play Pyrohemia on your first turn at 2RR that probably means you also played some like 1) land 2) accel spell ie desperate rit 3) accel peice ie chrome/ssg 4) pyrohemia.
This scenario leaves you with ~2 or 3 cards in your hand. Now, if you were on the play and dropped this hand no player would ever play a creature on their t1. Your t2 comes and the pyro goes as it is doubtful you have the land to play and happen to have a creature at the mana cost to play. A lot of this is mitigated if they go first you the pyro in on the draw. However, why would someone even want to play pryo t1? It seems like a nice t3 card.
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