I have not seen this deck posted, but I think it has potential. At the very least, it warrants some consideration. The deck revolves around the combo of Swans of Bryn Argoll and Chain of Plasma. For the uninitiated, here is how the combo works: 1. Play Swans. 2. Target Swans with Chain of Plasma. 3. It starts to resolve and you draw 3 cards from the replacement ability on the Swans (this draw happens in the middle of the ability). 4. Choose to copy Chain of Plasma by discarding a card. 5. Target Swans with the Chain of Plasma copy. 6. Repeat steps 3-5 until you have drawn your deck.
Now that all of you deck, sans the discarded cards, are in your hand, you have to find a way to kill the opponent. This deck has 2. Once you have ~30 cards in your hand, if you are out of red mana, play all the Chrome Mox es, Rite of Flames, and RFG all you Simian Spirit Guides to add some red mana to you mana pool. Then, play Spiriling Embers to kill for lethal damage. Or, flashback Conflagrate (You should have discarded it to Chain of Plasma earlier), discarding about 20 cards to deal lethal damage to the opponent. If you go with another build, play Rites of Initiation, discarding most of your hand to give the Swans enough power to swing lethally.
Luckily, as you are going off, you should have each Pact of Negation in your deck, to help protect the combo.
Do not focus too heavily on the sideboard. It is largely a placeholder. Many of the singletons are wish targets to help if you get into trouble. Go ahead and alter it as you see fit. I suspect a much more finished version of this deck will surface, in which case I would not mind if the mods altered my decklists.
The following are also cards worth considering for alternative builds
I will edit in more information here and in my later post as I get more responses and get more time
EDIT: Responses
One of the more suggested cards as a win condition is spiraling embers. That is not a bad idea at all. I would heavily suggesting considering that card. Inner calm, outer strength was also suggested, but like rites of initiation, it requires swans not to be targeted. lighting storm could work, but it just cost more than conflagrate.
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I pieced your deck together on MWS and it's turn 3-5 consistent. That's pretty solid if you ask me. I think the kill is kind of janky, You may want to consider Spiraling Embers or Inner Calm, Outer Strength.
Edit: You also REALLY need to run Xantid Swarm or something in the sideboard
Why not include Seismic Assault as both an extra win and to add more Combo-off consistancy. Seems to me that the Chain of Plasma build and Seismic Assault build would just enhance one another. Plasma the Swans, Imprint moxes, Play Assault, ditch lands, GG.
Why not include Seismic Assault as both an extra win and to add more Combo-off consistancy. Seems to me that the Chain of Plasma build and Seismic Assault build would just enhance one another. Plasma the Swans, Imprint moxes, Play Assault, ditch lands, GG.
Seismic Assault's mana cost alone screws with the deck's consistency. Ontop of that, you have to add more lands to the deck because you need to draw into lands so that you can discard them. This deck only runs 20 lands...10 of which fetch. I personally don't like those odds.
I do not see why you would need multiple win conditions after the combo, just the conflagrates seems fine without the rites of initiation.
Ever run into the business end of a remand when flashing something back? It isn't pretty. Not to mention the amount of graveyard hate being played right now thanks to dredge, any numberofwhich can kill that conflagrate.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
because you should't have the amount of card base in your yard to get a 1 hit kill with them. the entire idea of the deck is to on turn 3-5 drop swans and play chain of plasma on them to draw you entire deck minus 1 or 2 cards then play any said combo or single win con from there. effectivly the deck should be :sym r: and :sym b: with search accel and draw with 4 win conditions that run 2 of one type and 2 of another.
Conflagrate is just cheaper than Spiraling Embers. All that you have to pay to play conflagrate is RR, whereas Spiriling Embers costs one more. All you have to do is to have discarded Conflagrate to Chain of Plasma earlier. However, it is not necessarily a bad idea to include Spiraling Embers, as it does not require you to discard anything.
I also see no reason to include lightning storm. It will do the exact same thing as Conflagrate, but it will cost more.
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Ever run into the business end of a remand when flashing something back? It isn't pretty. Not to mention the amount of graveyard hate being played right now thanks to dredge, any numberofwhich can kill that conflagrate.
The graveyard hate isn't as relevant as you think it is, as you can just discard Conflagrate as your last card, regain priority and flashback it. They have no chance of removing it from your graveyard, as long as you play smart.
The graveyard hate isn't as relevant as you think it is, as you can just discard Conflagrate as your last card, regain priority and flashback it. They have no chance of removing it from your graveyard, as long as you play smart.
Actually, they will have a chance to remove it from the graveyard. Even if it's the last card you discard, you still copy Chain of Plasma one last time. That copy uses the stack, and your opponent can play Extirpate while it is on the stack, and you can't do anything about that.
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Why are we concerned so much about mana cost of the kill spell when it's a 1-2 mana difference? You're going to draw your deck. You have access to mox, spirit guide, rite of flame, and possibly even a land drop. I think we can move on to other problems that this deck may have.
My roommate and I have been fiddling with this deck.
Rites seems much too janky for it, but Embers is definitely one we missed. We're running Pact of Negation as well.
As a side note to the original post, Summoner's Pact is not a good card for this deck. Only fetches green creatures, unless you intend to run Painter's Servant which is just silly.
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My roommate and I have been fiddling with this deck.
Rites seems much too janky for it, but Embers is definitely one we missed. We're running Pact of Negation as well.
As a side note to the original post, Summoner's Pact is not a good card for this deck. Only fetches green creatures, unless you intend to run Painter's Servant which is just silly.
Could run painter's servant and Grindstone as well, you know, as another win condition.
But as far as I am concerned, Rites doesn't belong in the deck. If you can do something that doesn't rely on the combat phase to win, that would be my preferred victory.
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Avid EDH player GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
I totally messed up on the summoner's pact call. I never played the card really. That is going out entirely.
@Travy: I agree entirely with avoiding the combat step if at all posible. The combat step is messing and easy to screw up. At least the Swans and BoP both have flying.
Rites is the secondary win condition. Having it only cost 1 mana makes it really nice as a wish target if things get sticky. I would suggest wishing for Spiriling Embers before that card.
Why isn't this deck running Manamorphosis somewhere. In the original build I would drop BoP for it for sure. It is effectively a free spot in the deck, and imprints on Mox beautifully when you go off (since you will want red mre than green at that point)
i think you have to try embers b/c if someone drops a turn 0 leyline on you, you can't kill without dealing with that first. for 1 more mana you can avoid all the graveyard hate. that seems far more worth it.
For that reason, I would recommend running a seismic assault in there somewhere, as a silver bullet.
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You can make a control version of this combo, but this version is the straight combo varient.
I do not think that Manamorphosis is necessarily a good idea in this deck. One advantage of it is that it helps fix mana, but that is not that big of an issue. The big problem against it is that is limits visibility. It makes choosing opening hands more difficult because you cannot tell if you have the correct pieces, or tutors, in hand. While I am not saying that no one should run it, I personally would not.
The reason BoP is in there is to help to speed up the deck a turn possibly. You can remove it in your builds if you want. If I saw a large amount of support, I would remove it.
@budget player cadet: There are alternative win conditions, such as Spiriling Embers already presented that would basicly be strictly better than seismic assault. I do not think that card warrents a place.
@Autumn Willow: He was being sarcastic. I am sure he knew that it was not extended legal.
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I know we're dipping into another color for this, but what about soul spike? You don't need mana after comboing for it, it will probably get the kill in at least game 1 (most decks take at least 4 damage from their lands), and along with that, you can always hit THEM with the chain of plasma or the swans.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I was discussing Slaver in the Legacy thread for this. I was thinking Extended may be a better place for it. Slaver is like an Extra win con with Chain. Make them ditch their hand and burn their own stuff and self. Chain of Vapours might be nice as well somewhere in this build.
Slaver adds consistancy, extra outlet for Chains. You should be able to win by pulling it off very easilly. Even if not that turn, they would be very crippled. Can turn games around that somehow draw out. Extra "must Needle" target. If Lightning Storm gets needled, you lose the swan win. If Top gets Needled, its harder to Cbalance lock. Third "must Needle" card in your deck.
See here for further Swan-Chain-Slaver discussion/explaination.
The deck revolves around the combo of Swans of Bryn Argoll and Chain of Plasma. For the uninitiated, here is how the combo works:
1. Play Swans.
2. Target Swans with Chain of Plasma.
3. It starts to resolve and you draw 3 cards from the replacement ability on the Swans (this draw happens in the middle of the ability).
4. Choose to copy Chain of Plasma by discarding a card.
5. Target Swans with the Chain of Plasma copy.
6. Repeat steps 3-5 until you have drawn your deck.
Now that all of you deck, sans the discarded cards, are in your hand, you have to find a way to kill the opponent.
This deck has 2.
Once you have ~30 cards in your hand, if you are out of red mana, play all the Chrome Mox es, Rite of Flames, and RFG all you Simian Spirit Guides to add some red mana to you mana pool.
Then, play Spiriling Embers to kill for lethal damage. Or, flashback Conflagrate (You should have discarded it to Chain of Plasma earlier), discarding about 20 cards to deal lethal damage to the opponent.
If you go with another build, play Rites of Initiation, discarding most of your hand to give the Swans enough power to swing lethally.
Luckily, as you are going off, you should have each Pact of Negation in your deck, to help protect the combo.
3 Swans of Bryn Argoll
3 Chain of Plasma
1 Conflagrate - Alternate kill
1 Spiriling Embers
Search
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Living Wish
4 Cunning Wish
4 Peer Through Depths
Mana
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit guide
4 Rite of Flame
3 Pact of Negation
1 Avoid Fate
Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Steam Vents
4 Breeding Pool
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Swans of Bryn Argoll
1 Chain of Plasma
1 Rites of Initiation
1 Spiriling Embers
1 Lightning Storm
1 Pact of Negation
1 Guttural Response
4 xantid swarm
EDIT: 4 Birds of Paradise were cut for 3 Pact of Negation and 1 Avoid Fate
1 Rites of Initiation was cut for 1 Spiriling Embers
Do not focus too heavily on the sideboard. It is largely a placeholder. Many of the singletons are wish targets to help if you get into trouble. Go ahead and alter it as you see fit. I suspect a much more finished version of this deck will surface, in which case I would not mind if the mods altered my decklists.
The following are also cards worth considering for alternative builds
Pact Of Negation
Eldamri’s Call
Supply//Demand
Summoner’s Pact EDIT Nevermind, it only fetches green cards.
Kindle the Carnage
Dakmor Salvage
Seismic Assault
Lotus Bloom
Desperate Ritual
Seething Song
Inner Fire
Manamophasis
I will edit in more information here and in my later post as I get more responses and get more time
EDIT: Responses
One of the more suggested cards as a win condition is spiraling embers. That is not a bad idea at all. I would heavily suggesting considering that card. Inner calm, outer strength was also suggested, but like rites of initiation, it requires swans not to be targeted.
lighting storm could work, but it just cost more than conflagrate.
I pieced your deck together on MWS and it's turn 3-5 consistent. That's pretty solid if you ask me. I think the kill is kind of janky, You may want to consider Spiraling Embers or Inner Calm, Outer Strength.
Edit: You also REALLY need to run Xantid Swarm or something in the sideboard
Seismic Assault's mana cost alone screws with the deck's consistency. Ontop of that, you have to add more lands to the deck because you need to draw into lands so that you can discard them. This deck only runs 20 lands...10 of which fetch. I personally don't like those odds.
Ever run into the business end of a remand when flashing something back? It isn't pretty. Not to mention the amount of graveyard hate being played right now thanks to dredge, any number of which can kill that conflagrate.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Or a Terravore and an Anger
because you should't have the amount of card base in your yard to get a 1 hit kill with them. the entire idea of the deck is to on turn 3-5 drop swans and play chain of plasma on them to draw you entire deck minus 1 or 2 cards then play any said combo or single win con from there. effectivly the deck should be :sym r: and :sym b: with search accel and draw with 4 win conditions that run 2 of one type and 2 of another.
I also see no reason to include lightning storm. It will do the exact same thing as Conflagrate, but it will cost more.
The graveyard hate isn't as relevant as you think it is, as you can just discard Conflagrate as your last card, regain priority and flashback it. They have no chance of removing it from your graveyard, as long as you play smart.
Actually, they will have a chance to remove it from the graveyard. Even if it's the last card you discard, you still copy Chain of Plasma one last time. That copy uses the stack, and your opponent can play Extirpate while it is on the stack, and you can't do anything about that.
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Rites seems much too janky for it, but Embers is definitely one we missed. We're running Pact of Negation as well.
As a side note to the original post, Summoner's Pact is not a good card for this deck. Only fetches green creatures, unless you intend to run Painter's Servant which is just silly.
Could run painter's servant and Grindstone as well, you know, as another win condition.
But as far as I am concerned, Rites doesn't belong in the deck. If you can do something that doesn't rely on the combat phase to win, that would be my preferred victory.
GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth
WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother
BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator
BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
@Travy: I agree entirely with avoiding the combat step if at all posible. The combat step is messing and easy to screw up. At least the Swans and BoP both have flying.
Rites is the secondary win condition. Having it only cost 1 mana makes it really nice as a wish target if things get sticky. I would suggest wishing for Spiriling Embers before that card.
I could see a Countertop or PLU.dec run this combo pretty easily...
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That's another deck I want to build. The issue is, though, that Grindstone is not Extended Legal.
For that reason, I would recommend running a seismic assault in there somewhere, as a silver bullet.
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I do not think that Manamorphosis is necessarily a good idea in this deck. One advantage of it is that it helps fix mana, but that is not that big of an issue. The big problem against it is that is limits visibility. It makes choosing opening hands more difficult because you cannot tell if you have the correct pieces, or tutors, in hand. While I am not saying that no one should run it, I personally would not.
The reason BoP is in there is to help to speed up the deck a turn possibly. You can remove it in your builds if you want. If I saw a large amount of support, I would remove it.
@budget player cadet: There are alternative win conditions, such as Spiriling Embers already presented that would basicly be strictly better than seismic assault. I do not think that card warrents a place.
@Autumn Willow: He was being sarcastic. I am sure he knew that it was not extended legal.
Gifts Ungiven
Living Wish
[card]Glittering Wish[/cad]
Run Sakura-Tribe Elder.
Opponent's EoT Gifts for
Wish/Wish/Swan/Whatever you need.
I think going GWU w/ SSG's and 1 Ember is good. Run 4 Pacts and 2-3 Commandeers.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Slaver adds consistancy, extra outlet for Chains. You should be able to win by pulling it off very easilly. Even if not that turn, they would be very crippled. Can turn games around that somehow draw out. Extra "must Needle" target. If Lightning Storm gets needled, you lose the swan win. If Top gets Needled, its harder to Cbalance lock. Third "must Needle" card in your deck.
See here for further Swan-Chain-Slaver discussion/explaination.