The build is for Extended (whenever we finally get to build that goes Lorwyn to current). The idea is to be able to battle decks like Faeries and be aggressive enough to knock the rest silly.
The mana curve is fairly low..the only other things I could think to add was either Goblin Deathraiders, Goblin Outlander, or Murderous Redcap.
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Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
List look solid, though I don't like the board. There's got to be better options in B/R then trying to splash green for GSS and Pulse. Vexing Susher might be an option.
In the main I would consider this switch:
-2 Dark Tutelage
+2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
A bit higher on the curve but it doesn't kill you, can be put into play with Instigator and has the same function.
The other thing is that you might want to consider something like Thoughtseize as it is really strong right now against a lot of decks.
I'll certainly be playing it. and if you doubt the usefulness of this spell.... well, good luck! lol. You'll be on the receiving end of it soon enough, when your Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker gets turned into an elephant.
I never really liked the Gorger and seems to do as much for them as for you. Sure it's nice to refill your hand, but you also refill theirs.
If you want to really try and beat Faeries I would seriously look at making it your goal to assemble these two cards. Wort, Boggart Auntie + Tarfire. Pretty hard for a lot of decks to deal with, actually.
I'll certainly be playing it. and if you doubt the usefulness of this spell.... well, good luck! lol. You'll be on the receiving end of it soon enough, when your Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker gets turned into an elephant.
You're an aggressive red/black list. Faeries shouldn't be an issue. With the black, control decks shouldn't be much of an issue either. If you want something solid, though, then consider earwig squad. That is a good way to nail combo players, jace players, etc. on the things that make your life miserable.
It's not so much that I want to beat just Faeries, but they're gonna be tops and along with a Doran deck that a friend is building that includes Glissa, it's just that I need to be able to bullrush people and just never look back. Sensation Gorger is primarily to give me a new hand when I fizzle and to give my Warren Instigator some more targets when it connects.
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Thanks so much to Xenoninja @ Heroes of The Planes for my sweet sig!
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
Blightning would probably be better as another kill spell---you need to clear a path for the Instigator, that's probably the fastest way for you to win--but discard is always good
I don't get the green in the SB--2 more Earwig Squad would be good, as would Warren Weirding to take care of a big threat (if you live through Emarkul's first swing, you need a way to get rid of it) Vexing Shusher is better than gutteral response
I like this deck...I'm gonna make it up and take it to a PTQ as a long time legacy Goblin player it seems like it has some potential...I have already settled on my deck for the GP this weekend, but I'll definitely be giving this one a try ASAP.
With the Release of Wardriver, I think Gobs can be over the top in Extended. Being a long time Legacy Goblin player, (and having Used Dirty Kitty in extended for a while {goblin combo deck}), I am also developing a List. The major issue I am having right now is that I am Torn between B/R Gobs, B/G Gobs, B/R/x Gobs or Mono R-R/x Gobs. I would Definately Include Earwig Squad and another card that no one has mentioned yet: Warren Weirding, for the black build.
The Problem I have with Dark Tuteledge... You can't get rid of it easily... It's almost better to use Lens with Harbringer to get what you need... It also provides for a little ToolBox-ish. I suggest you Focus the Main to completely smash opponent, then board in more Anti_combo if you lose game 1.
This is the list I'm at right now. I like how the first game w/ Gorger will catch a lot of players off guard and throw their tempo in a loop. It may just end up being a sideboard jumper.
Definitely like the Wardriver.:D
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Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
At first glance, warren instigator doesn't look like it accomplishes a whole lot. He's the only reason I felt it necessary to add a siege-gang commander to the deck. Honestly it might just be better to cut both, but im not sure what else to add.
The only way this deck would pose a chance is if it does something fast. Kuldoth helps this deck become fast. It can lead to some silly things. Only thing that sucks is this deck is highly vulnerable to removal. Which is why thoughtsieze is in there. Not to mention it should be in any deck playing black at the moment.
If your wondering why im not playing mox opal, it doesn't do anything other than become fodder for kuldoth. I just hate "do nothing" cards. Chimeric mass can be a turn 1 rebirth or it can be a creature later in the game.
I don't think Kuldotha Rebirth goes into a "classic" aggro build. Just including that card means you need 8 artifacts to see ONE... I don't think that is very synergistic with Instigator. If you are going to run the splash black build, I wouldnt even bother with rebirth. If you like that card, I would drop the black and the instigators completely and make more of a RDW type of deck. Go for it all with Opals, mass, and memnites and put in Devestating Summons
The way Goblins are shaping up IMO, there will be 3 strong sub-archetypes.
1. R\B Goblins - Aggro\Control, black removal, GY hate
2. R Goblins - Straight Aggro, play an instigator, w\ Burn Red removal
3. R\x Goblin rush - Aggro\Combo - this one goes for the throat by turn 3... swining with Wardrivers/Chieftains, the turn 1 or 3 Kuldotha
note: Opal is very important in that build... it lets you drop a Turn 2 Chieftain LOL... after that you play Rebirth then a bushwacker with the Kicker for the turn 3 kill... all you need are 2 mountains, 1 opal, 1 mass, 1 memnite out and you win. You can float a mana from opal, sac it to rebirth then play another opal lol... it's very useful.
Your Build isn't bad, but you seem to be lacking Engines... The best Engine available to extended gobs is Wort.
Redcap is also really expensive for what it does... Sensation Gorger is really better from the board. If your opponent is playing a combo deck or something, this card can hurt you really bad.
as far as your mana base... I would split the swamp and the mountain fetches 2/2... with 2 Lords and 1 psuedo lord potentially (Wardriver) I would consider also at least 3 Mutavualt
NOTE: Why isn't anyone running Warren Weirding? LOL this card is sick... Play it on Turn 2 to kill a birds or a noble, or turn 3 with a bolt to ensure that instigator connects... Don't forget you can use weirding on yourself to turn a useless goblin (say they have a SGC or Guide on lockdown, it makes 2 extra damage anyway with cheiftain out... sac your own dude, and instead of attacking with a 2/2; all of a sudden you have TWO 2/2s... bring it back to your hand with wort and sac another and make THREE 2/2s!!!!... i see so many uses for this card... the only problem is if you're trying to get rid of a Goblin Guide from RDW or a mirror goblin match.)
I would suggest playtesting your current build, make some or all the suggested changes, then test that build... play many many matches with both, then make a decision to which one you think is more consistant.
The only problem I'm having is a stable Card-Drawing Engine... If anyone has any suggestions, let me know...
My options so far: Dark Tutelage - i don't really like it, cause you can't get rid of it without splashing green.
Believe me, I know all about running Wort, Boggart Auntie, I loved the card in RB Goblins back when Lorwyn first came out. My problem with it is that it either works beautifully or becomes a lightning rod for any removal spell, thus making me feel like it was a wasted spell.
I can't say I really like Lightning Crafter, Earwig Squad is another good board option for ripping apart combo and things that rely on particulars. Spikeshot Elder is one that I've been toying with, I'm just not liking the fact that I'm needing to dump mana into my creatures like that.
I think that Auntie's Snitch is a grossly underrated card in this deck type. It prowls in well and the 3/1 is a bit intimidating with any lord effect in the vicinity. And the fact that its recursion isn't too shabby, either.
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Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
Got some ideas from this thread. Also a R/G theme that uses Boartusk Liege as an additional "lord" guy. Obviously I haven't thought about the mana base but I think that the core is more important for now. edit: It might be better to go with the Wort plan and drop the 2 Siege-Gangs for the 4th Wort mama? She can recur the entire deck except non-Hovel lands.
Got some ideas from this thread. Also a R/G theme that uses Boartusk Liege as an additional "lord" guy. Obviously I haven't thought about the mana base but I think that the core is more important for now. edit: It might be better to go with the Wort plan and drop the 2 Siege-Gangs for the 4th Wort mama? She can recur the entire deck except non-Hovel lands.
You seem to be on the right track. Siege finishes games, especially if cheated in early. I'm treating B as a true splash. There isn't enough Land Destruction in the format to warrant a basic Swamp. I'm building the core as mono-red splashing the black to improve SB options mainly.
Here is the build I want to make, I just need wardrivers and Blackcleave Cliffs.
As you see, my list is very symmetrical, as far as mana curve goes.
1 drops: 8
2 Drops: 14
3 Drops: 7
4 Drops: 5
5 Drops: 3
Notes:
* wort is legendary so I feel 2 is right number. wort is also a decent engine for "round 2"
* Runs 10 "Lords" and 4 pseudo-lords (wardriver); this is key, along with Mutavault for early game swarms with your 1 and 2 drops.
* Mid to late-game Finishers are Spikeshot and Siege-gang.
The idea here is to be extremely aggressive Game 1.
Games 2-3 adjust for matchup, stealing their hand or disrupting them.
One of the nastiest plays you got here is dropping a Leige and a Siege off of an instigator hit lol.
Problems:
Liege doesn't give bonuses to Muta or mad auntie.
I'm still looking for a Cantrip that suites goblins well.
Aggro decks with huge creatures might give us problems.
4x Goblin Guide
4x Warren Instigator
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Auntie's Snitch
4x Mad Auntie
Spells - 14
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
4x Blightning
2x Dark Tutelage
4x Auntie's Hovel
4x Graven Cairns
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Great Sable Stag
3x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Forest
3x Guttural Response
2x Combust
The build is for Extended (whenever we finally get to build that goes Lorwyn to current). The idea is to be able to battle decks like Faeries and be aggressive enough to knock the rest silly.
The mana curve is fairly low..the only other things I could think to add was either Goblin Deathraiders, Goblin Outlander, or Murderous Redcap.
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresBIn the main I would consider this switch:
-2 Dark Tutelage
+2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
A bit higher on the curve but it doesn't kill you, can be put into play with Instigator and has the same function.
The other thing is that you might want to consider something like Thoughtseize as it is really strong right now against a lot of decks.
I was also thinking about Sensation Gorger. Could be devastating to Control and combo.
Also, how the hell is it that I thought I knew Lorwyn/Morningtide and it seems every now and again I see "new" cards from that set?
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresBIf you want to really try and beat Faeries I would seriously look at making it your goal to assemble these two cards.
Wort, Boggart Auntie + Tarfire. Pretty hard for a lot of decks to deal with, actually.
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I think what I'm going to playtest for now is -2 Dark Tutelage, -4 Blightning, +3 Sensation Gorger, +3 Murderous Redcap.
It's not so much that I want to beat just Faeries, but they're gonna be tops and along with a Doran deck that a friend is building that includes Glissa, it's just that I need to be able to bullrush people and just never look back. Sensation Gorger is primarily to give me a new hand when I fizzle and to give my Warren Instigator some more targets when it connects.
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresB-2 Dark Tutelage +2Wort, Boggart Aunti-Recurs Goblins with no life loss
-4 Auntie's Snitch +4 Siege-Gang Commander--Drops on T3 if you Instigator connects
-2 Goblin Bushwacker +2Earwig Squad--wrecks combo players--can be prowled in for any goblin that hits
Blightning would probably be better as another kill spell---you need to clear a path for the Instigator, that's probably the fastest way for you to win--but discard is always good
I don't get the green in the SB--2 more Earwig Squad would be good, as would Warren Weirding to take care of a big threat (if you live through Emarkul's first swing, you need a way to get rid of it)
Vexing Shusher is better than gutteral response
I like this deck...I'm gonna make it up and take it to a PTQ as a long time legacy Goblin player it seems like it has some potential...I have already settled on my deck for the GP this weekend, but I'll definitely be giving this one a try ASAP.
I'll post my version of BR gobs here
4 Goblin Guide
3 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Bushwacker
3 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Boggart Harbinger
2 Mad Auntie
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
Sorcery
3 Warren Weirding
4 Thoughtseize
2 Infiltration Lens
Instant
3 Terminate
Lands
3 Graven Cairns
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
2 Swamp
2 Moutain
3 Mutavault
4 Auntie's Hoval
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Duress
2 Earwig Squad
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Sword of Body And Mind
The Problem I have with Dark Tuteledge... You can't get rid of it easily... It's almost better to use Lens with Harbringer to get what you need... It also provides for a little ToolBox-ish. I suggest you Focus the Main to completely smash opponent, then board in more Anti_combo if you lose game 1.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
4x Goblin Guide
4x Warren Instigator
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Auntie's Snitch
4x Mad Auntie
3x Murderous Redcap
3x Sensation Gorger
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
Lands - 22
4x Auntie's Hovel
4x Graven Cairns
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
4x Arid Mesa
This is the list I'm at right now. I like how the first game w/ Gorger will catch a lot of players off guard and throw their tempo in a loop. It may just end up being a sideboard jumper.
Definitely like the Wardriver.:D
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresBI'm considering either wardriver when it comes in, or just say to hell with it and run the siege-gang commander.
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresB4 kuldoth rebirth
4 memnite
4 goblin bushwacker
4 goblin chieftan
4 warren instigator
3 mad auntie
1 siege-gang commander
4 lightning bolt
4 thoughtsieze
3 searing blaze
4 auntie's hovel
4 blackcleave cliffs
2 graven carrens
3 scalding tarn
3 mountain
At first glance, warren instigator doesn't look like it accomplishes a whole lot. He's the only reason I felt it necessary to add a siege-gang commander to the deck. Honestly it might just be better to cut both, but im not sure what else to add.
The only way this deck would pose a chance is if it does something fast. Kuldoth helps this deck become fast. It can lead to some silly things. Only thing that sucks is this deck is highly vulnerable to removal. Which is why thoughtsieze is in there. Not to mention it should be in any deck playing black at the moment.
If your wondering why im not playing mox opal, it doesn't do anything other than become fodder for kuldoth. I just hate "do nothing" cards. Chimeric mass can be a turn 1 rebirth or it can be a creature later in the game.
Any thoughts?
I don't think Kuldotha Rebirth goes into a "classic" aggro build. Just including that card means you need 8 artifacts to see ONE... I don't think that is very synergistic with Instigator. If you are going to run the splash black build, I wouldnt even bother with rebirth. If you like that card, I would drop the black and the instigators completely and make more of a RDW type of deck. Go for it all with Opals, mass, and memnites and put in Devestating Summons
The way Goblins are shaping up IMO, there will be 3 strong sub-archetypes.
1. R\B Goblins - Aggro\Control, black removal, GY hate
2. R Goblins - Straight Aggro, play an instigator, w\ Burn Red removal
3. R\x Goblin rush - Aggro\Combo - this one goes for the throat by turn 3... swining with Wardrivers/Chieftains, the turn 1 or 3 Kuldotha
note: Opal is very important in that build... it lets you drop a Turn 2 Chieftain LOL... after that you play Rebirth then a bushwacker with the Kicker for the turn 3 kill... all you need are 2 mountains, 1 opal, 1 mass, 1 memnite out and you win. You can float a mana from opal, sac it to rebirth then play another opal lol... it's very useful.
@svensparx07
Your Build isn't bad, but you seem to be lacking Engines... The best Engine available to extended gobs is Wort.
Redcap is also really expensive for what it does... Sensation Gorger is really better from the board. If your opponent is playing a combo deck or something, this card can hurt you really bad.
Consider:
-3 Murderous Redcap
+3 Lightning Crafter or + 3 Spikeshot Elder
-3 Sensation Gorger (move to board)
- 4 Auntie's Snitch (this card doesn't seem that great)
-1 Terminate (Running Wort opens up synergy with of type "Goblin")
+2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
+3 Warren Weirding
+3 Earwig Squad (or take out 1 instigator and 4 run Wardriver)
Consider also finding room for at least 2 Siege-gang Commander
Boggart Harbinger is a decent engine too.
as far as your mana base... I would split the swamp and the mountain fetches 2/2... with 2 Lords and 1 psuedo lord potentially (Wardriver) I would consider also at least 3 Mutavualt
Keep Lightning Bolts main or replace with Thoughseize or Duress... or from the board.
NOTE: Why isn't anyone running Warren Weirding? LOL this card is sick... Play it on Turn 2 to kill a birds or a noble, or turn 3 with a bolt to ensure that instigator connects... Don't forget you can use weirding on yourself to turn a useless goblin (say they have a SGC or Guide on lockdown, it makes 2 extra damage anyway with cheiftain out... sac your own dude, and instead of attacking with a 2/2; all of a sudden you have TWO 2/2s... bring it back to your hand with wort and sac another and make THREE 2/2s!!!!... i see so many uses for this card... the only problem is if you're trying to get rid of a Goblin Guide from RDW or a mirror goblin match.)
I would suggest playtesting your current build, make some or all the suggested changes, then test that build... play many many matches with both, then make a decision to which one you think is more consistant.
The only problem I'm having is a stable Card-Drawing Engine... If anyone has any suggestions, let me know...
My options so far:
Dark Tutelage - i don't really like it, cause you can't get rid of it without splashing green.
Infiltration Lens... MMeh...
Sign in Blood - this card feels like too much of a one-shot... i want a stable card-drawing permanent
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I can't say I really like Lightning Crafter, Earwig Squad is another good board option for ripping apart combo and things that rely on particulars. Spikeshot Elder is one that I've been toying with, I'm just not liking the fact that I'm needing to dump mana into my creatures like that.
I think that Auntie's Snitch is a grossly underrated card in this deck type. It prowls in well and the 3/1 is a bit intimidating with any lord effect in the vicinity. And the fact that its recursion isn't too shabby, either.
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz @ Damnation Studios for the awesome avvy!
VampiresB4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Warren Instigator
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Boartusk Liege
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Warren Weirding
Got some ideas from this thread. Also a R/G theme that uses Boartusk Liege as an additional "lord" guy. Obviously I haven't thought about the mana base but I think that the core is more important for now. edit: It might be better to go with the Wort plan and drop the 2 Siege-Gangs for the 4th Wort mama? She can recur the entire deck except non-Hovel lands.
You seem to be on the right track. Siege finishes games, especially if cheated in early. I'm treating B as a true splash. There isn't enough Land Destruction in the format to warrant a basic Swamp. I'm building the core as mono-red splashing the black to improve SB options mainly.
Here is the build I want to make, I just need wardrivers and Blackcleave Cliffs.
As you see, my list is very symmetrical, as far as mana curve goes.
1 drops: 8
2 Drops: 14
3 Drops: 7
4 Drops: 5
5 Drops: 3
Notes:
* wort is legendary so I feel 2 is right number. wort is also a decent engine for "round 2"
* Runs 10 "Lords" and 4 pseudo-lords (wardriver); this is key, along with Mutavault for early game swarms with your 1 and 2 drops.
* Mid to late-game Finishers are Spikeshot and Siege-gang.
The idea here is to be extremely aggressive Game 1.
Games 2-3 adjust for matchup, stealing their hand or disrupting them.
Manabase is also very important.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mad Auntie
3 Boartusk Liege
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
3 Terminate
Sorcery
3 Warren Weirding
Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Dragonskull Summit
4 Arid Mesa
6 Mountain
4 Thorn of Amythest
3 Earwig Squad
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Koth of the Hammer
One of the nastiest plays you got here is dropping a Leige and a Siege off of an instigator hit lol.
Problems:
Liege doesn't give bonuses to Muta or mad auntie.
I'm still looking for a Cantrip that suites goblins well.
Aggro decks with huge creatures might give us problems.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur