On this thread, it seems we came to the decision that Teachings was too expensive to be cast on the third turn, which is when you would want to get a Sunrise from the board.
Research/Development: Excellent choice against Cranial Extraction/Extirpate, and is in color.
Commandeer: To steal Orim's Chant in mirror matches or other combo matches where you can steal vital cards.
Divert: End of turn, Wish for Divert. Upkeep, Opponent chants, you chant in response, opponent counters, you divert. GG.
I play legacy eggs, but decided to see if the power level of eggs in extended was on a similar wavelength, maybe more effective, etc...
So try out a list with cunning wish (3 and 1 for sunrise/reclaim), wayfarer, ghost quarter, and the reshape with lotus bloom, etc, and I start playing it the way people in the thread seem to play it (using quarters to thin the deck and generate mana for sunrise, reshaping artifact lands or eggs into lotus, etc.) on mws for a few days with no problems, until about 3 hours ago, I start playing this guy.
He's playing what looks like a mono-U exhaustion/howling mine/bounce type of deck that seemed kinda janky. I'm setting up a good double sunrise on turn 5 when on his turn beforehand (i had played a turn3 cunning wish for sunrise, so he MUST have known it was in my hand), he plays a howling mine, and then plays eye of nowhere on one of my lands. In response, I cunning wish, and as I anticipted, it baited a counterspell. He TAPS OUT to counter this cunning wish. On the next turn, I untap with enough mana to play 2 sunrises (the second of which, I don't have), but instead I crack the first bloom, and then pull out a reshape on my seat of synod and go get a bloom (which I didn't even need at that point), and then crack the bloom. I'm half way through ghost quartering whats left of my land when he says "suspend". A short conversation later, he tells me that it has no cost, that no cost is not zero cost, and that reshape asks for x, so it can't be fetched. He then calls me a NOOB, and then leaves in a huff.
Fun. I may be ignorant, but I keep seeing people in this thread talk about "reshaping a 'seat' into a bloom" so I assumed this was somehow legal. Does anyone have an ACTUAL ruling on this? Or has my reading comprehension finally gone to pieces?
Even if he's right, he's a crap player if he's tapping out the turn before I go off when he knows a sunrise is in my hand =P Meh. Just thought I'd post something. For reference, I'm running something similar to mtgjumper's build (the first one you'll see if you scroll up), with -2 coliseum, -1 ancient den, +1 forest, +1 sungrass eggs, +1 reclaim. I plan on adding claws in there at some point, but that's what I have for the time being.
"[Lotus Bloom] has no mana cost, which means it can't normally be played as a spell. You could, however, play it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire." <<--straight from the gatherer
yes...you can play it with Reshape. and yes, your opponent was a retard...
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A short conversation later, he tells me that it has no cost, that no cost is not zero cost, and that reshape asks for x, so it can't be fetched. He then calls me a NOOB, and then leaves in a huff.
The MWS noob strikes again. Hahahahaha
Jumper: I'm still playing one chant maindeck as well so I can fetch it with my singleton teachings if need be.
Kane: Divert looks pretty good because it only costs one blue; I'm definitely gonna test that. Research/Commandeer seem situational and costly.
well, I'm kinda afraid to run less since I want my wishes for other things, but in my legacy build I just run the 1 chain of vapor, 1 abeyance, 1 angels grace, and 1 crop rotation md with the 4 mystical tutors. Consider it my lack of faith in the extended versions tutor suite ^^;; (mystical tutor is HIZOUSE). Besides, MD hate against TEPS seems key, doesn't it? And since you need to see it within 4 turns at the latest, can you afford to run only 5 copies instead of 7? I also think that would strain the wishboard, don't you? The less you have to decide between grabbing a chant and grabbing a sunrise, the better.
My current SB (My PTQ is in march, so it's PC Legal):
1 x Orim's Chant
1 x Second Sunrise
1 x Reclaim
1 x Brain Freeze
1 x Angel's Grace
1 x Chain of Vapor
1 x Echoing Truth
1 x Ancient Grudge
1 x Ray of Revelation
1 x Research//Development
1 x Seedtime
1 x Shock
1 x Divert
1 x Stifle
1 x Extirpate
I would choose to play the 4 Wish, 3 Sunrise, no teachings version anyway [/aside]
If you insist on playing the teachigns version, add one wayfarer in place of the spellbomb, and maybe cut a few eggs for a 2 Reclaims.
So basically, if you spoils away the Wayfarer, and have not yet laid a Coliseum, you have no win-con? Sounds like a plan! Hang on, you have R // D! But what hppens if you Spoils that way too?
We don't need locket. After the first, they are dead cards, and the deck can go off easily anyway without it.
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Second Sunrise
SB: 1 Reclaim
SB: 3 Orim's Chant
SB: 1 Mana Short
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Angel's Grace
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Shock
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
Just to bring up some points:
If I were to run lockets, I would not sacrifice one to Reshape. I'd rather sac a Seat, because I get +1 mana after Sunrise; also, by saccing it, you lose the bonus of cheapening spells.
You haven't removed fizzling: it can still happen, although is uncommon in the deck anyway.
If I don't draw into Sunrise on turn 3? I Wish for one.
For Spoils to be good enough, you need Angel's Grace. But then you're diluting the deck.
The deck is a step in another direction; however, I think your version is becoming diltued, due to the fact that you are running extra cards to make Spoils seem good. I tried looking for a cheap tutor myself, in Diabolic Intent, but neither are as good as they seem.
It does well against anything that isn't Affinity's fastest hand or Zoo's broken-est draws. TEPS is still a semi-problem and we have big issues with AznTron (Chalice for 3 = gg, so I board in the Grudge to be Teachings'd up). We can win against a lot of other decks as they are super-duper slow.
As for Locket: it is poop. We don't need it to win and it does nothing constructive for the deck. I've played with it, it's poopy.
I was wondering if this had been updated recently by anyone.
Here are a bunch of versions of the deck (take note: I am not advising that these are all good, and whether SSUis good in itself due to the large amount of GY hate)-
Sunny Side Up
// Lands
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Archaeological Dig
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
1 Krosan Wayfarer
// Spells
3 Second Sunrise
4 Cunning Wish
3 Reclaim
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Edge of Autumn
The differences between there are very minor (generally 6-ish cards) but they play quite differently.
The first is slower but more resiliant, and best for an unknown meta.
The second two are very similar, slightly faster, but more of a meta deck.
Oh, and TEPS is generally a decent match up. You have Ghost Quarters, which are brilliant, and you are slightly slower, but have more ways to disrupt them (Chant, Mana Short and wish for answers).
The requirement for competitive combo decks in extended is either resilience or speed. Decks like heartbeat desire and ideal can still win if you disrupt the combo once or just counter one element. Decks like dredge and TEPS go off really quickly, so even though they're easy to hate out, they still win a good percentage of the time. Eggs gets disrupted by any type of combo hate (graveyard, orim's chant, counterspells, stifle, discard, meddling mage, etc), and it still has a hard time winning on turn four. It worked when no one knew what to do against it, but once you know how it wins, it's easy to beat. None of the cards in Lorwyn/Future Sight are drastic improvements, so it's really the same fizzling machine as it was earlier this year. That said, here's another version that uses Artificer's Intuition:
It's really slow and not that competitive, but it's fun to play and surprise people with. You win by using Artificer's Intuition to fetch Locket (in play), 2 Divining Top (in play), 1 Divining Top in graveyard to create infinite storm, then Brain Freeze for the win.
Edit: I also didn't mention artifact hate. And stifle isn't that effective against this, but still.
Yeah, I know, but I just thought I'd mention it in case someone finds some way to make it competitive. Most of the things you mentioned apply to eggs too.
Research/Development: Excellent choice against Cranial Extraction/Extirpate, and is in color.
Commandeer: To steal Orim's Chant in mirror matches or other combo matches where you can steal vital cards.
Divert: End of turn, Wish for Divert. Upkeep, Opponent chants, you chant in response, opponent counters, you divert. GG.
I play legacy eggs, but decided to see if the power level of eggs in extended was on a similar wavelength, maybe more effective, etc...
So try out a list with cunning wish (3 and 1 for sunrise/reclaim), wayfarer, ghost quarter, and the reshape with lotus bloom, etc, and I start playing it the way people in the thread seem to play it (using quarters to thin the deck and generate mana for sunrise, reshaping artifact lands or eggs into lotus, etc.) on mws for a few days with no problems, until about 3 hours ago, I start playing this guy.
He's playing what looks like a mono-U exhaustion/howling mine/bounce type of deck that seemed kinda janky. I'm setting up a good double sunrise on turn 5 when on his turn beforehand (i had played a turn3 cunning wish for sunrise, so he MUST have known it was in my hand), he plays a howling mine, and then plays eye of nowhere on one of my lands. In response, I cunning wish, and as I anticipted, it baited a counterspell. He TAPS OUT to counter this cunning wish. On the next turn, I untap with enough mana to play 2 sunrises (the second of which, I don't have), but instead I crack the first bloom, and then pull out a reshape on my seat of synod and go get a bloom (which I didn't even need at that point), and then crack the bloom. I'm half way through ghost quartering whats left of my land when he says "suspend". A short conversation later, he tells me that it has no cost, that no cost is not zero cost, and that reshape asks for x, so it can't be fetched. He then calls me a NOOB, and then leaves in a huff.
Fun. I may be ignorant, but I keep seeing people in this thread talk about "reshaping a 'seat' into a bloom" so I assumed this was somehow legal. Does anyone have an ACTUAL ruling on this? Or has my reading comprehension finally gone to pieces?
Even if he's right, he's a crap player if he's tapping out the turn before I go off when he knows a sunrise is in my hand =P Meh. Just thought I'd post something. For reference, I'm running something similar to mtgjumper's build (the first one you'll see if you scroll up), with -2 coliseum, -1 ancient den, +1 forest, +1 sungrass eggs, +1 reclaim. I plan on adding claws in there at some point, but that's what I have for the time being.
yes...you can play it with Reshape. and yes, your opponent was a retard...
Standard
WURBGCommandmentsWURBG
Extended
GU Smooth CriminalGU
The MWS noob strikes again. Hahahahaha
Jumper: I'm still playing one chant maindeck as well so I can fetch it with my singleton teachings if need be.
Kane: Divert looks pretty good because it only costs one blue; I'm definitely gonna test that. Research/Commandeer seem situational and costly.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
1 x Orim's Chant
1 x Second Sunrise
1 x Reclaim
1 x Brain Freeze
1 x Angel's Grace
1 x Chain of Vapor
1 x Echoing Truth
1 x Ancient Grudge
1 x Ray of Revelation
1 x Research//Development
1 x Seedtime
1 x Shock
1 x Divert
1 x Stifle
1 x Extirpate
And IMHO, 3 Chants in MD are a MUST. Period.
Nobody like Meddling Mage, or Explosives anymore?
I'm not too fond of MM, but I think it's a stupid idea not to run at least 3 EE SB.
If you insist on playing the teachigns version, add one wayfarer in place of the spellbomb, and maybe cut a few eggs for a 2 Reclaims.
We don't need locket. After the first, they are dead cards, and the deck can go off easily anyway without it.
Make your psots easier to understand, pelase.
As per your request, here is a list that I use: I feel that both Zazie and PO will be able to say that it is a good list.
// Lands
5 Snow-Covered Island
3 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Archaeological Dig
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
// Creatures
2 Krosan Wayfarer
// Spells
3 Second Sunrise
4 Cunning Wish
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Skycloud Egg
4 Sungrass Egg
3 Reclaim
4 Chromatic Sphere
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Second Sunrise
SB: 1 Reclaim
SB: 3 Orim's Chant
SB: 1 Mana Short
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Angel's Grace
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Shock
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
Just to bring up some points:
If I were to run lockets, I would not sacrifice one to Reshape. I'd rather sac a Seat, because I get +1 mana after Sunrise; also, by saccing it, you lose the bonus of cheapening spells.
You haven't removed fizzling: it can still happen, although is uncommon in the deck anyway.
If I don't draw into Sunrise on turn 3? I Wish for one.
For Spoils to be good enough, you need Angel's Grace. But then you're diluting the deck.
The deck is a step in another direction; however, I think your version is becoming diltued, due to the fact that you are running extra cards to make Spoils seem good. I tried looking for a cheap tutor myself, in Diabolic Intent, but neither are as good as they seem.
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Archaeological Dig
2 Cephalid Coliseum
5 Island
1 Plains
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
Dudes
2 Krosan Wayfarer
Awesome
3 Second Sunrise
4 Cunning Wish
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Skycloud Egg
4 Sungrass Egg
3 Reclaim
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Second Sunrise
1 Reclaim
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mana Short
1 Angel's Grace
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Ray of Revalation
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Orim's Chant
3 Engineered Explosives
It does well against anything that isn't Affinity's fastest hand or Zoo's broken-est draws. TEPS is still a semi-problem and we have big issues with AznTron (Chalice for 3 = gg, so I board in the Grudge to be Teachings'd up). We can win against a lot of other decks as they are super-duper slow.
As for Locket: it is poop. We don't need it to win and it does nothing constructive for the deck. I've played with it, it's poopy.
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Here are a bunch of versions of the deck (take note: I am not advising that these are all good, and whether SSUis good in itself due to the large amount of GY hate)-
Sunny Side Up
// Lands
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Archaeological Dig
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
1 Krosan Wayfarer
// Spells
3 Second Sunrise
4 Cunning Wish
3 Reclaim
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Skycloud Egg
3 Sungrass Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Reclaim
SB: 1 Second Sunrise
SB: 3 Orim's Chant
SB: 1 Mana Short
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Angel's Grace
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Shock
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
------------------------------------------------------
SunCycle
// Lands
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Archaeological Dig
3 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
1 Krosan Wayfarer
4 Street Wraith
// Spells
4 Second Sunrise
3 Reclaim
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Skycloud Egg
3 Sungrass Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere
------------------------------------------------------
SunCast
// Lands
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Archaeological Dig
3 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Seat of the Synod
// Creatures
1 Krosan Wayfarer
// Spells
4 Second Sunrise
3 Reclaim
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Reshape
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Thoughtcast
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Skycloud Egg
3 Sungrass Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere
The differences between there are very minor (generally 6-ish cards) but they play quite differently.
The first is slower but more resiliant, and best for an unknown meta.
The second two are very similar, slightly faster, but more of a meta deck.
Oh, and TEPS is generally a decent match up. You have Ghost Quarters, which are brilliant, and you are slightly slower, but have more ways to disrupt them (Chant, Mana Short and wish for answers).
1 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
2 Steel Wall
4 Brain Freeze
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Locket of Yesterdays
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chomatic Star
4 Artificer's Intuition
3 Thoughtcast
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Reshape
4 Remand
4 Lotus Bloom
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Spell Snare
2 Stifle
3 Ensnaring Bridge
It's really slow and not that competitive, but it's fun to play and surprise people with. You win by using Artificer's Intuition to fetch Locket (in play), 2 Divining Top (in play), 1 Divining Top in graveyard to create infinite storm, then Brain Freeze for the win.
Edit: I also didn't mention artifact hate. And stifle isn't that effective against this, but still.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH