Also, Fame never was synonymous with greatness; Hitler/Ganghis Khan both did terrible things, and yet we remember them.
Though I suppose you could argue that they did do great things, just terrible. It all depends more on the definition of "great" we decide to use.
All the more reason why fame after death is not necessarily something worth having or worth aspiring to.
Is it not?
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
People talking about you means you did great things with your life. Everyone remembers the names Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Cleopatra, Hector, Ajax, and other historical (If romanticized) figures. No one remembers Bob the Grecian accountant.
So which is it? Does fame equate to greatness, or not? Because right now, you're contradicting yourself.
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
Do you really think so? The man has been dead for only seventy years. Less than a single century. There are still people alive today who remember him personally. What if we give him another millennium? Without using Wikipedia, give me the name of the most notorious world leader of the Tenth Century. Okay, now what about the Tenth Century BC? The Hundredth Century BC? The Thousandth? The human race has been around for a looong time, and we have no idea how much longer we've got. If the most optimistic predictions of science fiction are true, and we colonize the galaxy with a total population of quadrillions, then Hitler will more distant, petty, and irrelevant to our descendants than the baddest Cro-Magnon in the cave is to us. And even those optimistic visions seldom look more than a few hundred millennia into the future. Whatever happens to our species, the universe itself will persist for many billions of years beyond that. So: immortality? Only to the short-sighted.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Also: even if eternal fame were obtainable, how does it make sense to call it "immortality?" The point of immortality is to not die, to continue experiencing life.
With eternal fame, you're still dead. From your perspective, what's the difference whether people talk about you or not? You have know way of knowing or caring.
Someone like Henrietta Lacks is "immortal" in a far more literal sense than Alexander the Great, though most people have never heard of her. But again, she can't know or care that she's "immortal," so why is this kind of immortality valuable?
People talking about you means you did great things with your life. Everyone remembers the names Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Cleopatra, Hector, Ajax, and other historical (If romanticized) figures. No one remembers Bob the Grecian accountant.
So which is it? Does fame equate to greatness, or not? Because right now, you're contradicting yourself.
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
So you're saying we should aspire to be Hitler?
No. Just that, depending on how much our long off future wants to remember us, he will be remembered as a figure in history.
I shoulda seen that coming, but I did not. I'mma just end this with a quote:
Quote from Juggernaught »
I do not fear Death, but still would rather not.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
No. Just that, depending on how much our long off future wants to remember us, he will be remembered as a figure in history.
So what?
See, you don't seem to actually know what you're arguing. First you said this:
People talking about you means you did great things with your life. Everyone remembers the names Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Cleopatra, Hector, Ajax, and other historical (If romanticized) figures. No one remembers Bob the Grecian accountant.
in which you argue that fame = greatness, and greatness is desirable, so therefore fame is desirable because of greatness.
But then you say this:
Also, Fame never was synonymous with greatness;
In which you state that fame =/= greatness. Hitler/Ganghis Khan both did terrible things, and yet we remember them.[/quote]in which you argue fame =/= greatness.
Yet, then you say this:
Though I suppose you could argue that they did do great things, just terrible. It all depends more on the definition of "great" we decide to use.
where you basically redefine greatness to mean fame, thereby reasserting that fame = greatness.
And then you say this:
Is it not?
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
Where you basically state that it's actually FAME that is desirable, not necessarily greatness.
So we have:
Fame = Greatness
Fame =/= Greatness
Fame is desirable because it means greatness, and greatness is what is desirable
Greatness is desirable because it means fame, and fame is what is desirable
It is desirable to be Hitler because Hitler is famous
It is not desirable to be Hitler despite that Hitler is famous
I would say that arguably more people enjoy being alive than they enjoy being dead. Granted, none of the dead people I've asked have been able to tell me for sure, so...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I am unborn, so how can I die?
How can that which is born be born? How can that which is unborn be born either? Matter cannot be created or destroyed, surely you must have existed somewhere before you were born. blah blah blah. anyway, i like nargarjuna's view on the matter.
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The fact that you and I are speaking about him now indicates a level of fame beyond most.
Besides, doesn't Vanilla Ice prove my point that fame is not synonymous with greatness?
Kimmy K not being dead means that we can't judge her or V-Ice about their actual.... imprint? on the world they left after their death.
Also, Fame never was synonymous with greatness; Hitler/Ganghis Khan both did terrible things, and yet we remember them.
Though I suppose you could argue that they did do great things, just terrible. It all depends more on the definition of "great" we decide to use.
All the more reason why fame after death is not necessarily something worth having or worth aspiring to.
Is it not?
Even if they did things horrendous, their names have been cemented into history. As long as there is Germany (Or rather, everyone other than Germany, since they rightly don't want to talk about him), Hitler is going to be a name everyone knows. Heck, as long as there are people willing to learn about Germany, they will remember him.
Even when The Milky Way has been colonized and we seek to go further, History of Earth (Or Terra, either or) courses will talk about him. He is, in essence, immortalized as long as the Human Race is alive.
So which is it? Does fame equate to greatness, or not? Because right now, you're contradicting yourself.
So you're saying we should aspire to be Hitler?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
With eternal fame, you're still dead. From your perspective, what's the difference whether people talk about you or not? You have know way of knowing or caring.
Someone like Henrietta Lacks is "immortal" in a far more literal sense than Alexander the Great, though most people have never heard of her. But again, she can't know or care that she's "immortal," so why is this kind of immortality valuable?
No. Just that, depending on how much our long off future wants to remember us, he will be remembered as a figure in history.
I shoulda seen that coming, but I did not. I'mma just end this with a quote:
See, you don't seem to actually know what you're arguing. First you said this:
in which you argue that fame = greatness, and greatness is desirable, so therefore fame is desirable because of greatness.
But then you say this:
In which you state that fame =/= greatness. Hitler/Ganghis Khan both did terrible things, and yet we remember them.[/quote]in which you argue fame =/= greatness.
Yet, then you say this:
where you basically redefine greatness to mean fame, thereby reasserting that fame = greatness.
And then you say this:
Where you basically state that it's actually FAME that is desirable, not necessarily greatness.
So we have:
Fame = Greatness
Fame =/= Greatness
Fame is desirable because it means greatness, and greatness is what is desirable
Greatness is desirable because it means fame, and fame is what is desirable
It is desirable to be Hitler because Hitler is famous
It is not desirable to be Hitler despite that Hitler is famous
So what are you trying to say, exactly?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How can that which is born be born? How can that which is unborn be born either? Matter cannot be created or destroyed, surely you must have existed somewhere before you were born. blah blah blah. anyway, i like nargarjuna's view on the matter.