I asked this question to my family and it sparked a massive hour-long debate about morals and ethics, so I figured it'd prove to be a decent discussion on here. The situation you're put in is as follows:
A man approaches you with a briefcase. He opens it to reveal and handgun and tells you that if you kill a random person of his choice, you'll get the following for a certain cost. There's three different situations:
In the first, you have to kill a random person who will not be missed by their family, friends of loved ones; no one except you and the man with the case would know about the killing. In exchange, you would receive as much money as you wanted (not infinite, but let us say a hundred billion dollars). Would you kill the stranger? It's not a child, by the way.
In the second, you have to kill the stranger to get a wish. But, the standard genie rules do not apply, except you can't wish to bring back the dead stranger, nor can you wish for more wishes, nor wish for global amnesia. Bringing back the dead is fine. But, people would know you killed this stranger. Would you do it?
In the third, you have to kill someone in front of their family and they would remember the event. People would know who you are, but again, you get one wish for anything except making the people forget, more wishes, etc. Would you kill the stranger?
-------
Personally, I answered: Yes, yes, no. With enough money, I could cure huge world problems at the cost of a single life. Assuming no infinite money and just enough to be rich, I think I would still do it for the first option. For the other two, to be able to raise the dead, I'd most definitely kill the stranger. But, I wouldn't take the last option and do them in in front of their family.
What do you guys think? Why would you or why wouldn't you do it?
I'd like to think I'd say no to all three. I don't need any money for anything, I already have a set of Jaces.
Have you seen the movie, the Box that came out a year or so ago? same premise but with a pretty ridiculous ending
It was actually based off a short story called "Button, Button", which also was an episode of a Twilight Zone series revival. The Twilight Zone episode had the best ending.
There's no wish I would make that's worth an innocent dying.
As he said it's not a child, one could argue there's no such thing as an innocent grown-up, but let's put the sin related religious crap aside.
This all boils down to morality, as usual. Would YOU be able to live with it? The life of a single human means little in the grand scheme of things, as the life of any other creature on earth, despite what people may want to believe. The death of a single organism is a small tragedy at best. This can, of course, be argued both ways, so I'll play devil's advocate here.
Scenario 1: you kill some random dude and get 100 billion dollars, enough to educate an army of homeless children, see them lead successful lives and make something out of an otherwise doomed existence.
Scenario 2: you sacrifice some random dude, your reputation and/or future to get anything. This is almost a no-brainer as you can do anything to improve the lives of millions for the price of a single collateral victim.
Scenario 3: you sacrifice some random dude, your reputation and/or future plus earn the resentment/vendetta of said dude's family to get anything. See above.
I would say yes to all three, although I'm not keen on the killing part. The moral thing to add is that I would probably say yes on all three even if I were to be killed as well.
Even if I were a bad person and claimed all the money and/or wishes for myself, I would still open huge businesses, employ people, develop my area etc. Pretty much a yes on all 3 either way. Well, if I were that bad I wouldn't care much about killing a dude either way, but you get the meaning.
To put it simply: even if you put a gun to my head, I won't pull the trigger to kill stranger. Maybe, if I were to lose rational thought (say, hopped up on drugs, insanity, or whatnot), but not while I am capable of thinking. If I'm not willing to save my life to take another, what is a hundred billion dollars, fame, etc?
It was actually based off a short story called "Button, Button", which also was an episode of a Twilight Zone series revival. The Twilight Zone episode had the best ending.
Influence if you want it bad enough can be had at. Wealth is a bit trickier, but if you aren't too unlucky and a bit wise with your wealth for the most part you can be okay.
On the philosophical end, suffering brings about change and keeps "irrational exuberance" in check by punishing people for mistakes and those of others. To eliminate some aspects of suffering is to eliminate one of the bigger aspects to capitalism.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The premise is very similar to the Twilight Zone episode and the Button movie, but here you have to kill the person in front of you.
I've also asked several people, and they've also said no as well. My whole thing is, if I had one wish, raising the dead would also be pretty sweet. As selfish as it would be, bringing back dead loved ones would be excellent.
-Matt
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"I'm your Huckleberry." - Doc Holliday
"You're like the nicest person on the forum!" -Maicol
What about wishing that people don't care that you killed someone?
Anyway I'd think I'd do all three. With that much money or the ability to wish for anything, theres so many people you could help in society. It's pure utilitarianism.
So if I were to say "you're a complete douchebag who has his head up his ass so far he's using his own eyeballs as glasses," you'd simply shrug it off?
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I'd say "No" to all three because I wouldn't trust the man with the briefcase to do what he says. The whole thought experiment hinges on me trusting someone who seems untrustworthy.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
Assume he's the G-man from Half-Life. You are guaranteed he'll grant what you ask (but unlike the G-man, he won't screw you around). Again, you'll get what you ask for, you'll assume he does what he says. Otherwise, I'd just come up to you with a briefcase
-Matt
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"I'm your Huckleberry." - Doc Holliday
"You're like the nicest person on the forum!" -Maicol
In fact, more so for the ones in which people know I did it. I would rather have the integrity to do the deed with an audience than to be sneaky about it. At least then I can say "Hey, hate me if ya want to, but with my wish (or with the billions of dollars) I will make this world a hundred times better/save thousands of lives"
We drop bombs on people simply because we don't like their Kool-Aid...whats is killing one person for a pretty good reason?
Now, if I take my wish or money and just hog it all, and be a selfish tool with it...then I would deserve to get my come-uppance.
Hundreds of millions/billions of dollars > One life.
One awesome world improving wish > One life.
In fact, I'd offer to the Gman that I kill a few more who deserve to die, after I kill this stranger.
*Note...I would gladly volunteer to BE the stranger who gets killed, if the person shooting makes a wish that betters the world, or uses the money for good things/deeds.
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Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Assume he's the G-man from Half-Life. You are guaranteed he'll grant what you ask (but unlike the G-man, he won't screw you around). Again, you'll get what you ask for, you'll assume he does what he says.
Even if I somehow knew he'd follow through on what he says, I still don't think I'd go through with it because the whole situation seems really shady to me. If I start killing people for money, I really have no clue what kind of trouble I might be getting into.
Plus, I saw The Box and what happened at the end of it.
...IF, however, you were to somehow remove all my suspicions about the situation and have this only be about whether I'd kill someone random for money or a wish (and I think this is what you're going for here), here's what I suspect my decisions would be:
1. Kill random person for tons of money? I honestly don't know about this one. I'd like to think that I wouldn't do it, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd say no. If there was anyone that would miss them I definitely would not do it. But if there's no one to miss them... I dunno. The person is gonna die anyways some day, right? You know what I'd do? I'd explain my situation to the person I was supposed to kill and ask what they'd do in my situation. Then I'd do whatever they say they'd do. That's my answer.
2. Kill random person for a wish?: Well my wish would be for the power to stop time for everything except myself and anyone I choose. And I'd probably kill the person for it. Then I'd go save a few lives to make up for taking one.
3. Kill random person in front of their friends and family for a wish?: As tempting as it would be, I don't think I could do this one.
However, as I already stated, if this situation ever really occurred, I think I'd be too suspicious of the whole set-up to even seriously consider killing the person. I'd want to get out of the situation as quickly as possible because I'd be too weirded out.
For the first I would say yes
For the second and third I would say no. Wishes are messy things that can be twisted a hundred different ways. Killing a stranger that nobody will miss? Not a problem.
Honestly, you could exchange the "kill a random person" for "drop a nuclear warhead" and get a yes answer most of the time.
Suppose your wish is to make the earth invulnerable to human destruction or make both the earth and man as a species safe from decline? That wish could be easily worth a couple hundred million lives. Metaphorically speaking.
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Interesting question, and the most interesting thing about it is the approach people take to drawing their conclusions about themselves. I see three different approaches to answering, by bracketing the outer limits of the following:
(a) Absolute moral stance on killing supercedes everything else, no matter how pragmatically beneficial to the world.
(b) Extremes pragmatic benefits to the world or yourself can save multiple lives to the point that they obviously supercede the value of a single human stranger's life.
(c) Looking for loopholes that clearly make the survival of the stranger categorically less valuable to the world, than the reward.
In the third, you have to kill someone in front of their family and they would remember the event. People would know who you are, but again, you get one wish for anything except making the people forget, more wishes, etc. Would you kill the stranger?
I might give in to temptation and bring back the dead people I love, and kill the stranger... IF I could do so without getting blowback from the "fineprint" of resurrecting people. This is assuming a world without God or an afterlife, since that's how the question in framed.
In the second, you have to kill the stranger to get a wish. But, the standard genie rules do not apply, except you can't wish to bring back the dead stranger, nor can you wish for more wishes, nor wish for global amnesia. Bringing back the dead is fine. But, people would know you killed this stranger. Would you do it?
Probably same as above. I might give in.
In the first, you have to kill a random person who will not be missed by their family, friends of loved ones; no one except you and the man with the case would know about the killing. In exchange, you would receive as much money as you wanted (not infinite, but let us say a hundred billion dollars). Would you kill the stranger? It's not a child, by the way.
Almost certainly "NO". You don't KNOW until you're faced with the situation.
I already have more money than I "need". What does $100 billion get me?
The question of the value to the world of controlling $100 billion is similar to the question of the superpowers thread. Is the world really going to be so much better off because YOU control $100 billion in power to distribute as you choose? It's a burden on all levels, just like the superpowers.
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In fact, more so for the ones in which people know I did it. I would rather have the integrity to do the deed with an audience than to be sneaky about it. At least then I can say "Hey, hate me if ya want to, but with my wish (or with the billions of dollars) I will make this world a hundred times better/save thousands of lives"
Would you then KILL to win the megamillions?
How about simply KILL a man to take his winning megamillions ticket if you knew you wouldn't be caught? After all, you'll do more good with the money. You suggest that killing somebody would be justified by all the good things you could do with a hundred billion, certainly you could save a lot of lives for $100 million or even $10 million. But putting it out to the world, why would the world be better off if YOU killed somebody won the lotto? Is the world better off because bus driver John Gillen won $72 million in the megamillions last month? Is the world been better off because Jim McCullar won $190 million last month?
Excuse my skepticism, but you currently have more money than you need to survive. You're not sending THAT to Somalia right now as far as I know. Right now, what's standing between you and saving a few lives with your annual income?
Something makes me think that if you got a billion dollars for killing a person, you'd keep some of that money. If you KILL somebody to get a $100 million or $100 billion, and you keep ANY of it, it amounts to killing to enrich yourself and loved ones, then asking the stranger to spend a few billion on charity to make yourself feel better about it. Especially since, up to this point in your life, you've NOT sacrificed a lot to save those people in Somalia or wherever.
Like doing a contract murder for $100,000, then having the mafia donate a big check to St Jude's. Who are we kidding? Even if St Jude's gets a bigger check than you do, you're still a hit man.
I'd rather die of poverty than kill any stranger, innocent or not. nobody deserves to die by any persons hand.
Come to think of it, there would be no counter terrorist if there is no terrorist....
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Train MMA!!!
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Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I asked this question to my family and it sparked a massive hour-long debate about morals and ethics, so I figured it'd prove to be a decent discussion on here. The situation you're put in is as follows:
A man approaches you with a briefcase. He opens it to reveal and handgun and tells you that if you kill a random person of his choice, you'll get the following for a certain cost. There's three different situations:
In the first, you have to kill a random person who will not be missed by their family, friends of loved ones; no one except you and the man with the case would know about the killing. In exchange, you would receive as much money as you wanted (not infinite, but let us say a hundred billion dollars). Would you kill the stranger? It's not a child, by the way.
In the second, you have to kill the stranger to get a wish. But, the standard genie rules do not apply, except you can't wish to bring back the dead stranger, nor can you wish for more wishes, nor wish for global amnesia. Bringing back the dead is fine. But, people would know you killed this stranger. Would you do it?
In the third, you have to kill someone in front of their family and they would remember the event. People would know who you are, but again, you get one wish for anything except making the people forget, more wishes, etc. Would you kill the stranger?
-------
Personally, I answered: Yes, yes, no. With enough money, I could cure huge world problems at the cost of a single life. Assuming no infinite money and just enough to be rich, I think I would still do it for the first option. For the other two, to be able to raise the dead, I'd most definitely kill the stranger. But, I wouldn't take the last option and do them in in front of their family.
What do you guys think? Why would you or why wouldn't you do it?
-Matt
Yes
NO
NO
Since everyone is someones child the first opption means I don't have to kill anything and get the cool 100,000,000,000 for my trouble.
Child abusers? Necropedophiles? People with aids who spread the disease on purpose? Torturers?
You must be either very young or very innocent in the ways of the world to say something like that. I envy you for either reason
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I asked this question to my family and it sparked a massive hour-long debate about morals and ethics, so I figured it'd prove to be a decent discussion on here. The situation you're put in is as follows:
A man approaches you with a briefcase. He opens it to reveal and handgun and tells you that if you kill a random person of his choice, you'll get the following for a certain cost. There's three different situations:
In the first, you have to kill a random person who will not be missed by their family, friends of loved ones; no one except you and the man with the case would know about the killing. In exchange, you would receive as much money as you wanted (not infinite, but let us say a hundred billion dollars). Would you kill the stranger? It's not a child, by the way.
In the second, you have to kill the stranger to get a wish. But, the standard genie rules do not apply, except you can't wish to bring back the dead stranger, nor can you wish for more wishes, nor wish for global amnesia. Bringing back the dead is fine. But, people would know you killed this stranger. Would you do it?
In the third, you have to kill someone in front of their family and they would remember the event. People would know who you are, but again, you get one wish for anything except making the people forget, more wishes, etc. Would you kill the stranger?
-------
Personally, I answered: Yes, yes, no. With enough money, I could cure huge world problems at the cost of a single life. Assuming no infinite money and just enough to be rich, I think I would still do it for the first option. For the other two, to be able to raise the dead, I'd most definitely kill the stranger. But, I wouldn't take the last option and do them in in front of their family.
What do you guys think? Why would you or why wouldn't you do it?
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
Mainly because he's going around buying murders, and that worries me a bit.
So yeah, I probably wouldn't do what he suggests.
Art is life itself.
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
Have you seen the movie, the Box that came out a year or so ago? same premise but with a pretty ridiculous ending
It was actually based off a short story called "Button, Button", which also was an episode of a Twilight Zone series revival. The Twilight Zone episode had the best ending.
As he said it's not a child, one could argue there's no such thing as an innocent grown-up, but let's put the sin related religious crap aside.
This all boils down to morality, as usual. Would YOU be able to live with it? The life of a single human means little in the grand scheme of things, as the life of any other creature on earth, despite what people may want to believe. The death of a single organism is a small tragedy at best. This can, of course, be argued both ways, so I'll play devil's advocate here.
Scenario 1: you kill some random dude and get 100 billion dollars, enough to educate an army of homeless children, see them lead successful lives and make something out of an otherwise doomed existence.
Scenario 2: you sacrifice some random dude, your reputation and/or future to get anything. This is almost a no-brainer as you can do anything to improve the lives of millions for the price of a single collateral victim.
Scenario 3: you sacrifice some random dude, your reputation and/or future plus earn the resentment/vendetta of said dude's family to get anything. See above.
I would say yes to all three, although I'm not keen on the killing part. The moral thing to add is that I would probably say yes on all three even if I were to be killed as well.
Even if I were a bad person and claimed all the money and/or wishes for myself, I would still open huge businesses, employ people, develop my area etc. Pretty much a yes on all 3 either way. Well, if I were that bad I wouldn't care much about killing a dude either way, but you get the meaning.
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
To put it simply: even if you put a gun to my head, I won't pull the trigger to kill stranger. Maybe, if I were to lose rational thought (say, hopped up on drugs, insanity, or whatnot), but not while I am capable of thinking. If I'm not willing to save my life to take another, what is a hundred billion dollars, fame, etc?
Sarnathed.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
On the philosophical end, suffering brings about change and keeps "irrational exuberance" in check by punishing people for mistakes and those of others. To eliminate some aspects of suffering is to eliminate one of the bigger aspects to capitalism.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I've also asked several people, and they've also said no as well. My whole thing is, if I had one wish, raising the dead would also be pretty sweet. As selfish as it would be, bringing back dead loved ones would be excellent.
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
Anyway I'd think I'd do all three. With that much money or the ability to wish for anything, theres so many people you could help in society. It's pure utilitarianism.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
In fact, more so for the ones in which people know I did it. I would rather have the integrity to do the deed with an audience than to be sneaky about it. At least then I can say "Hey, hate me if ya want to, but with my wish (or with the billions of dollars) I will make this world a hundred times better/save thousands of lives"
We drop bombs on people simply because we don't like their Kool-Aid...whats is killing one person for a pretty good reason?
Now, if I take my wish or money and just hog it all, and be a selfish tool with it...then I would deserve to get my come-uppance.
Hundreds of millions/billions of dollars > One life.
One awesome world improving wish > One life.
In fact, I'd offer to the Gman that I kill a few more who deserve to die, after I kill this stranger.
*Note...I would gladly volunteer to BE the stranger who gets killed, if the person shooting makes a wish that betters the world, or uses the money for good things/deeds.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Even if I somehow knew he'd follow through on what he says, I still don't think I'd go through with it because the whole situation seems really shady to me. If I start killing people for money, I really have no clue what kind of trouble I might be getting into.
Plus, I saw The Box and what happened at the end of it.
...IF, however, you were to somehow remove all my suspicions about the situation and have this only be about whether I'd kill someone random for money or a wish (and I think this is what you're going for here), here's what I suspect my decisions would be:
1. Kill random person for tons of money? I honestly don't know about this one. I'd like to think that I wouldn't do it, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd say no. If there was anyone that would miss them I definitely would not do it. But if there's no one to miss them... I dunno. The person is gonna die anyways some day, right? You know what I'd do? I'd explain my situation to the person I was supposed to kill and ask what they'd do in my situation. Then I'd do whatever they say they'd do. That's my answer.
2. Kill random person for a wish?: Well my wish would be for the power to stop time for everything except myself and anyone I choose. And I'd probably kill the person for it. Then I'd go save a few lives to make up for taking one.
3. Kill random person in front of their friends and family for a wish?: As tempting as it would be, I don't think I could do this one.
However, as I already stated, if this situation ever really occurred, I think I'd be too suspicious of the whole set-up to even seriously consider killing the person. I'd want to get out of the situation as quickly as possible because I'd be too weirded out.
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For the second and third I would say no. Wishes are messy things that can be twisted a hundred different ways. Killing a stranger that nobody will miss? Not a problem.
Suppose your wish is to make the earth invulnerable to human destruction or make both the earth and man as a species safe from decline? That wish could be easily worth a couple hundred million lives. Metaphorically speaking.
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
(a) Absolute moral stance on killing supercedes everything else, no matter how pragmatically beneficial to the world.
(b) Extremes pragmatic benefits to the world or yourself can save multiple lives to the point that they obviously supercede the value of a single human stranger's life.
(c) Looking for loopholes that clearly make the survival of the stranger categorically less valuable to the world, than the reward.
I'll answer in reverse order.
I might give in to temptation and bring back the dead people I love, and kill the stranger... IF I could do so without getting blowback from the "fineprint" of resurrecting people. This is assuming a world without God or an afterlife, since that's how the question in framed.
Probably same as above. I might give in.
Almost certainly "NO". You don't KNOW until you're faced with the situation.
I already have more money than I "need". What does $100 billion get me?
The question of the value to the world of controlling $100 billion is similar to the question of the superpowers thread. Is the world really going to be so much better off because YOU control $100 billion in power to distribute as you choose? It's a burden on all levels, just like the superpowers.
Would you then KILL to win the megamillions?
How about simply KILL a man to take his winning megamillions ticket if you knew you wouldn't be caught? After all, you'll do more good with the money. You suggest that killing somebody would be justified by all the good things you could do with a hundred billion, certainly you could save a lot of lives for $100 million or even $10 million. But putting it out to the world, why would the world be better off if YOU killed somebody won the lotto? Is the world better off because bus driver John Gillen won $72 million in the megamillions last month? Is the world been better off because Jim McCullar won $190 million last month?
Excuse my skepticism, but you currently have more money than you need to survive. You're not sending THAT to Somalia right now as far as I know. Right now, what's standing between you and saving a few lives with your annual income?
Something makes me think that if you got a billion dollars for killing a person, you'd keep some of that money. If you KILL somebody to get a $100 million or $100 billion, and you keep ANY of it, it amounts to killing to enrich yourself and loved ones, then asking the stranger to spend a few billion on charity to make yourself feel better about it. Especially since, up to this point in your life, you've NOT sacrificed a lot to save those people in Somalia or wherever.
Like doing a contract murder for $100,000, then having the mafia donate a big check to St Jude's. Who are we kidding? Even if St Jude's gets a bigger check than you do, you're still a hit man.
I'd rather die of poverty than kill any stranger, innocent or not. nobody deserves to die by any persons hand.
Come to think of it, there would be no counter terrorist if there is no terrorist....
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Yes
NO
NO
Since everyone is someones child the first opption means I don't have to kill anything and get the cool 100,000,000,000 for my trouble.
Child abusers? Necropedophiles? People with aids who spread the disease on purpose? Torturers?
You must be either very young or very innocent in the ways of the world to say something like that. I envy you for either reason
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
@ zombiemachine. Yes they deserve to die if the jury says so, but not until then.