Every society in the world started in anarchy. Every single one became a government. That's why we have governments controlling the world and running everywhere.
*People choose to create governments of their own will*. You can establish a starting circumstance, but anarchy by definition refuses to enforce laws. People given perfect freedom will choose to form an organized structure, either for defense or for power or both. That *always* happens, throughout all of human history across the entire world. You can claim it won't happen, but you're denying the evidence of the entire world - which always show governments arising in every society that starts in anarchy.
Not saying there'll be no laws but there will not be a coercive monopoly on violence. Disputes would be resolved through common law.
What does common law mean in an anarchy? Because common law is by definition linked to a centralised public judiciary. When there are multiple judiciaries in competition, how on earth does precedent work? What reason do judiciaries have to be consistent with each other? Wouldn't they want to be inconsistent so as to compete? Who says they have to even be consistent with themselves?
Not saying there'll be no laws but there will not be a coercive monopoly on violence. Disputes would be resolved through common law.
You're not answering the big point, you're just speculating wildly (and more than a little incoherently). I've demonstrated that anarchy produces governments consistently. If you believe governments are bad, then your beloved anarchy does indeed produce bad end results. Arguing that it won't is like staring at a waterfall and saying, "Water isn't affected by gravity."
You are insisting that humans will act in ways that we know they never have. You sir are ignoring reality.
< hey i'm back, hopefully you enjoyed your regularly scheduled broadcast of leftist echo chamber. >
on water distribution, why is this a problem? it is unlikely that a water provider would want to start charging monopoly prices as this is a highly ineffective strategy... communities that are gouged on water prices could truck in their water, get it from wells, or there could be a water providing business that approaches members of the community and agrees to build pipes and sell them water at a reasonable market price as long as the patrons agree to get their water from them for whatever amount of time is specified on the contract.
on how the legal system would work, people would patronize private protection agencies which would offer them dispute resolution services in exchange for a monthly fee. now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.
hey i'm back, hopefully you enjoyed your regularly scheduled broadcast of leftist echo chamber.
on water distribution, why is this a problem? it is unlikely that a water provider would want to start charging monopoly prices as this is a highly ineffective strategy... communities that are gouged on water prices could truck in their water, get it from wells, or there could be a water providing business that approaches members of the community and agrees to build pipes and sell them water at a reasonable market price as long as the patrons agree to get their water from them for whatever amount of time is specified on the contract.
on how the legal system would work, people would patronize private protection agencies which would offer them dispute resolution services in exchange for a monthly fee. now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.
I'll let the people you responded to have the first crack, but why wouldn't water distributors change more if they could? Water isn't like a video game.
now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.
Why would the Mongols waste their lives mastering war? They wouldn't have enough time to plant their crops!
on water distribution, why is this a problem? it is unlikely that a water provider would want to start charging monopoly prices as this is a highly ineffective strategy... communities that are gouged on water prices could truck in their water, get it from wells, or there could be a water providing business that approaches members of the community and agrees to build pipes and sell them water at a reasonable market price as long as the patrons agree to get their water from them for whatever amount of time is specified on the contract.
But the water provider can just stop them from doing that with your private protection agencies...
on how the legal system would work, people would patronize private protection agencies which would offer them dispute resolution services in exchange for a monthly fee. now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.
...If the only business that makes nuclear weapons decides "Why not branch out into selling water?" and threatens every other company with being nuked if they don't cease and desist from selling water, and gains control of all water supplies country-wide again with threat of being nuked, whatcha gonna do? No one else has the power to nuke. And this is how government forms in these anarchocapitalist situations. And not a positive government.
Where do governments come from? Everywhere in the world started with anarchy, with no governments around. People then gathered power and declared themselves kings, or any other form of government you dislike. Obviously it becomes rather hard to just "compete" with these existing powerhouses that you think are abusing their power, or else you wouldn't be on here complaining about it.
Your system obviously doesn't work. It doesn't function the way you say it does. We have several thousand years of human history as proof.
Governments are not some magical curse cast by a witch that can be broken by blog posts. It's just people in power forcing other people to do what they want. If I and a group of people in an anarchist society decided to pool our money to pay for a private security force, then decided we would force you to pay for it as well and would send our private security force after you if you didn't... That's police. That's taxes. What you gonna do about it?
Your kneejerk reaction is to say, "Well I'll make my security force and it'll be so much better and bigger and cooler than yours." Okay then, do it. Do it right now, in the real world. What's stopping you?
The whole world started with absolute freedom and without any governments buddy. Where did they come from? Clearly absolute freedom DOES produce abusive power structures despite what you claim. So how did that happen?
Rich Guy: "I'm a rich guy with a gigantic private security force and I've conquered or purchased huge amounts of land."
Libertarian: "No problem."
Rich Guy: "I'm also going to label myself a King."
Libertarian: "No! Now you're suddenly a government and that's bad!"
*People choose to create governments of their own will*. You can establish a starting circumstance, but anarchy by definition refuses to enforce laws. People given perfect freedom will choose to form an organized structure, either for defense or for power or both. That *always* happens, throughout all of human history across the entire world. You can claim it won't happen, but you're denying the evidence of the entire world - which always show governments arising in every society that starts in anarchy.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
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Sig-Heroes of the Plane
What does common law mean in an anarchy? Because common law is by definition linked to a centralised public judiciary. When there are multiple judiciaries in competition, how on earth does precedent work? What reason do judiciaries have to be consistent with each other? Wouldn't they want to be inconsistent so as to compete? Who says they have to even be consistent with themselves?
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You're not answering the big point, you're just speculating wildly (and more than a little incoherently). I've demonstrated that anarchy produces governments consistently. If you believe governments are bad, then your beloved anarchy does indeed produce bad end results. Arguing that it won't is like staring at a waterfall and saying, "Water isn't affected by gravity."
You are insisting that humans will act in ways that we know they never have. You sir are ignoring reality.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
on water distribution, why is this a problem? it is unlikely that a water provider would want to start charging monopoly prices as this is a highly ineffective strategy... communities that are gouged on water prices could truck in their water, get it from wells, or there could be a water providing business that approaches members of the community and agrees to build pipes and sell them water at a reasonable market price as long as the patrons agree to get their water from them for whatever amount of time is specified on the contract.
on how the legal system would work, people would patronize private protection agencies which would offer them dispute resolution services in exchange for a monthly fee. now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.
I'll let the people you responded to have the first crack, but why wouldn't water distributors change more if they could? Water isn't like a video game.
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Why would the Mongols waste their lives mastering war? They wouldn't have enough time to plant their crops!
But the water provider can just stop them from doing that with your private protection agencies...
...If the only business that makes nuclear weapons decides "Why not branch out into selling water?" and threatens every other company with being nuked if they don't cease and desist from selling water, and gains control of all water supplies country-wide again with threat of being nuked, whatcha gonna do? No one else has the power to nuke. And this is how government forms in these anarchocapitalist situations. And not a positive government.
Where do governments come from? Everywhere in the world started with anarchy, with no governments around. People then gathered power and declared themselves kings, or any other form of government you dislike. Obviously it becomes rather hard to just "compete" with these existing powerhouses that you think are abusing their power, or else you wouldn't be on here complaining about it.
Your system obviously doesn't work. It doesn't function the way you say it does. We have several thousand years of human history as proof.
Governments are not some magical curse cast by a witch that can be broken by blog posts. It's just people in power forcing other people to do what they want. If I and a group of people in an anarchist society decided to pool our money to pay for a private security force, then decided we would force you to pay for it as well and would send our private security force after you if you didn't... That's police. That's taxes. What you gonna do about it?
Your kneejerk reaction is to say, "Well I'll make my security force and it'll be so much better and bigger and cooler than yours." Okay then, do it. Do it right now, in the real world. What's stopping you?
The whole world started with absolute freedom and without any governments buddy. Where did they come from? Clearly absolute freedom DOES produce abusive power structures despite what you claim. So how did that happen?
Rich Guy: "I'm a rich guy with a gigantic private security force and I've conquered or purchased huge amounts of land."
Libertarian: "No problem."
Rich Guy: "I'm also going to label myself a King."
Libertarian: "No! Now you're suddenly a government and that's bad!"
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane