2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a monopoly is and does. What's to stop the monopoly from dropping their prices low enough kill the competition, then raising them back up again. This is what happens in real life.
Whenever it raises prices back up again people will buy from a source not as expensive.
I'm really not sure you understand what monopoly means. Can you define what you mean when you say 'monopoly'.
Because it doesn't mean 'big business', it means sole control over the market. Any competition - IF there even is competition - can be easily killed off.
2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
Bad people usually have more money than good people so are more likely to be able to afford the enforcers and be able equip them properly. The REAs beloning to good people then get shot or run out of town
Its really no that hard to work out.....
Especially as the hypothetical I am laying out isn't a hypothetical but the historical record.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
This argument seems very naive. "There are more good people than bad people?" Jeez.
Doesn't this also contradict your "Everyone's out for themselves" philosophy? I mean, some of the biggest things about being a good person are generally altruism, empathy, and selflessness. But maybe you're going off of a different measure?
Just saying this doesn't make it true. You're going to have to explain it. Preferably with historical examples to back up your assertion.
And even what you say here has problems. Just for starters, "common law" refers to the body of rulings made by a state judiciary system. There is no such thing as common law in anarchism.
2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
In a strange way, you're right. But only if the REAs' strength is determined by the amount of people behind it rather than an amount of money. That is to say, only if the "REA" is a democratic government rather than a private for-profit agency. We all subscribe to a democratic government for precisely this reason. In short, you are yet again making an argument that undermines anarcho-capitalism rather than defending it.
(a) It's not as if people haven't tried this before. The cartel is pretty good at catching them. Maybe you make it, maybe you don't, but it's a serious risk and a huge disincentive to betrayal.
(b) How do you compete in the vaunted free and open market in secret?
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a monopoly is and does. What's to stop the monopoly from dropping their prices low enough kill the competition, then raising them back up again. This is what happens in real life.
What kind of products are we talking about? Any examples?
Just for starters, it seems like you'd need a pretty narrow situation to get anywhere with this approach. You can't do it in a market where one product, while not being the same, could be considered a replacement for the other. E.g., wool for a different type of material. If there's no replacement product, but the product itself is not essential (or close to it) or, say, addictive... well, that's another gigantic problem for you.
We do have at least one real-life example of someone destroying this idea. DuPont did a number of things to successfully fight this scheme. Slowing/shutting down production or diverting resources from it temporarily while letting the would-be monopolizers suffer major losses is a great idea and makes the other side look rather foolish. Also a fantastic idea to snatch up their inventory at below-market value and sit on it (hey, if they can take losses, maybe you can too - but your losses are only temporary, they're taking permanent ones) or dump it back into another market at normal market value (hey, why even bother taking losses, let them do it.)
Of course, if all else fails, we have one terribly unfortunate option left: choose a leader from among us, take resources from everyone else, build an army and impose our will on the offenders.
What kind of products are we talking about? Any examples?
Walmart and Amazon have both gotten in trouble under European predatory pricing laws for dropping their prices too low for local companies to compete while propping up their own business with overseas profits. [link] [link]
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
What kind of products are we talking about? Any examples?
Walmart and Amazon have both gotten in trouble under European predatory pricing laws for dropping their prices too low for local companies to compete while propping up their own business with overseas profits. [link] [link]
The fact that they are dropping prices is a GOOD thing. Its a wonderful thing and well worth other businesses going out of business.
2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
3. You would betray the cartel secretly.
Your central error is assuming that "governments" are some mystical non-human-produced force. Rich dudes amassing power and conquering people is how you get kings in the first place, which is a system of government. We started with anarchy everywhere, and now there are governments basically everywhere. You suggest that people will come together in organized resistance against people who are abusing their powers. You're correct, that's what governments are. That's what a police force is.
Clearly every group of people starts in anarchy and eventually results in governments forming. If you think this is a bad thing, then you have to admit anarchies DO tend towards bad things. You're caught in a contradiction.
What kind of products are we talking about? Any examples?
Walmart and Amazon have both gotten in trouble under European predatory pricing laws for dropping their prices too low for local companies to compete while propping up their own business with overseas profits. [link] [link]
The fact that they are dropping prices is a GOOD thing. Its a wonderful thing and well worth other businesses going out of business.
Except when they raise their prices back up again. The consumer loses, overall.
It's also worth mentioning that the monopoly company is able to do things like force customers into long-term contracts, with stiff penalties for attempting to break contract to try out the doomed upstart competitor. If it would cost more to switch your phone plan from Monolith Telecom to Upstart Wireless than it would to stick with Monolith Telecom, Monolith doesn't have to lowers its prices at all for existing customers. Then they can offer new customer incentives that Upstart Wireless can't hope to match to prevent people not in the middle of a contract from going to the new company. By the time the new customer incentive has run out, Upstart is out of business, and the customer is forced to renew with Monolith at the higher (unchanged) price.
@Stairc A monopoly is a single supplier of a good or service. Yes, this means McDonalds is a monopoly because it is the sole provider of BigMacs in the market. We are talking about tbe kind of monopolies on more broad goods that people think are harmful.
@Stairc A monopoly is a single supplier of a good or service. Yes, this means McDonalds is a monopoly because it is the sole provider of BigMacs in the market. We are talking about tbe kind of monopolies on more broad goods that people think are harmful.
If you don't know what a monopoly is, just say so. It's OK, we already know you don't know how to use quote.
@Stairc A monopoly is a single supplier of a good or service. Yes, this means McDonalds is a monopoly because it is the sole provider of BigMacs in the market. We are talking about tbe kind of monopolies on more broad goods that people think are harmful.
Here you have defined market far to narrowly. You are adding are to many conditions to say if some one has a monopoly and then saying that there monopoly is irrelevant because someone can get a similar product else where in your flawed case the King Whopper.
A far fairer market to define would be counter service Fast food outlets which covers both Macdonalds, Burger King, KFC and others. Whilst it is difficult though not impossible to get a monopoly in those markets, you need help from elsewhere, that does not mean that it is as difficult to get a monopoly in other areas.
To use and example that you have attempted to reject before. Water Supply Specifically on the Mains.
There are a lot of problems with a third party breaking into the Mains Water supply business. Not least
Having a regular supply of drinking water
Setting up a pumping plant to extract it from the landscape
Purification plants to make sure it is safe
Cost effective means of distribution to your customers
None of the above are cheap to do. The bulk of your costs are incurred long before you can actually deliver a product to some one you can charge for. So if anything goes wrong in any of them you are going to be majorly out of pocket, and with the potential to have a lot of pissed off investors if you had to go ask other people for help getting the funds for the above.
Even if you are successful in getting the above built and are either self funding or have found investors that are patient enough to wait a very long time on their investment, your new operation is ridiculously easy to obstruct at each stage in the process. If nothing else by use of force.
And before you go bleating on that I have forgotten about the REAs that will be swarming to protect you. I haven't forgotten about them, I have hired them, the best of them are working for me. And I am making sure that they are better trained and equiped tham the remainder that would be willing to work for the amount that you could afford to pay them. Good luck finding qualified people willing to work for you.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
@Kahedron, make a contract with water supplier, or get a well built.
I'll ask again, because you didn't answer me: @MTGTCG Do you have any response to my post? Here it is again for reference:
Your central error is assuming that "governments" are some mystical non-human-produced force. Rich dudes amassing power and conquering people is how you get kings in the first place, which is a system of government. We started with anarchy everywhere, and now there are governments basically everywhere. You suggest that people will come together in organized resistance against people who are abusing their powers. You're correct, that's what governments are. That's what a police force is.
Clearly every group of people starts in anarchy and eventually results in governments forming. If you think this is a bad thing, then you have to admit anarchies DO tend towards bad things. You're caught in a contradiction.
If by "square 1" you mean that your argument is dismantled and that you need to start again from a stronger foundation, I agree. Otherwise you'll need some sort of coherent response to the issue I raise.
An anarchist society would be well armed because of concerns like yours. If need be it would be able to fight a defensive war and history has shown us that those on the defensive are at a highly advantageous position compared to the aggressors, using guerilla tactics like Vietnam.
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2. Who wants to subscribe to a rights enforcement agency that supports bad people? The answer is bad people. There are more good people than bad people, so good REAs beat bad REAs. It's not that hard...
3. You would betray the cartel secretly.
Because it doesn't mean 'big business', it means sole control over the market. Any competition - IF there even is competition - can be easily killed off.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Bad people usually have more money than good people so are more likely to be able to afford the enforcers and be able equip them properly. The REAs beloning to good people then get shot or run out of town
Its really no that hard to work out.....
Especially as the hypothetical I am laying out isn't a hypothetical but the historical record.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
This argument seems very naive. "There are more good people than bad people?" Jeez.
Doesn't this also contradict your "Everyone's out for themselves" philosophy? I mean, some of the biggest things about being a good person are generally altruism, empathy, and selflessness. But maybe you're going off of a different measure?
And even what you say here has problems. Just for starters, "common law" refers to the body of rulings made by a state judiciary system. There is no such thing as common law in anarchism.
In a strange way, you're right. But only if the REAs' strength is determined by the amount of people behind it rather than an amount of money. That is to say, only if the "REA" is a democratic government rather than a private for-profit agency. We all subscribe to a democratic government for precisely this reason. In short, you are yet again making an argument that undermines anarcho-capitalism rather than defending it.
(a) It's not as if people haven't tried this before. The cartel is pretty good at catching them. Maybe you make it, maybe you don't, but it's a serious risk and a huge disincentive to betrayal.
(b) How do you compete in the vaunted free and open market in secret?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
What kind of products are we talking about? Any examples?
Just for starters, it seems like you'd need a pretty narrow situation to get anywhere with this approach. You can't do it in a market where one product, while not being the same, could be considered a replacement for the other. E.g., wool for a different type of material. If there's no replacement product, but the product itself is not essential (or close to it) or, say, addictive... well, that's another gigantic problem for you.
We do have at least one real-life example of someone destroying this idea. DuPont did a number of things to successfully fight this scheme. Slowing/shutting down production or diverting resources from it temporarily while letting the would-be monopolizers suffer major losses is a great idea and makes the other side look rather foolish. Also a fantastic idea to snatch up their inventory at below-market value and sit on it (hey, if they can take losses, maybe you can too - but your losses are only temporary, they're taking permanent ones) or dump it back into another market at normal market value (hey, why even bother taking losses, let them do it.)
Of course, if all else fails, we have one terribly unfortunate option left: choose a leader from among us, take resources from everyone else, build an army and impose our will on the offenders.
Art is life itself.
The fact that they are dropping prices is a GOOD thing. Its a wonderful thing and well worth other businesses going out of business.
Your central error is assuming that "governments" are some mystical non-human-produced force. Rich dudes amassing power and conquering people is how you get kings in the first place, which is a system of government. We started with anarchy everywhere, and now there are governments basically everywhere. You suggest that people will come together in organized resistance against people who are abusing their powers. You're correct, that's what governments are. That's what a police force is.
Clearly every group of people starts in anarchy and eventually results in governments forming. If you think this is a bad thing, then you have to admit anarchies DO tend towards bad things. You're caught in a contradiction.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Then the one with the monopoly drops the price until the new upstart goes bankrupt and leaves again.
Then the price goes back up again.
Companies come back in.
The entrenched company drops the price again.
The upstart goes bankrupt and leaves the market.
The company with the monopoly inceases the price again.
Are you perhaps noticing a pattern developing here?
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
If you don't know what a monopoly is, just say so. It's OK, we already know you don't know how to use quote.
Here you have defined market far to narrowly. You are adding are to many conditions to say if some one has a monopoly and then saying that there monopoly is irrelevant because someone can get a similar product else where in your flawed case the King Whopper.
A far fairer market to define would be counter service Fast food outlets which covers both Macdonalds, Burger King, KFC and others. Whilst it is difficult though not impossible to get a monopoly in those markets, you need help from elsewhere, that does not mean that it is as difficult to get a monopoly in other areas.
To use and example that you have attempted to reject before. Water Supply Specifically on the Mains.
There are a lot of problems with a third party breaking into the Mains Water supply business. Not least
None of the above are cheap to do. The bulk of your costs are incurred long before you can actually deliver a product to some one you can charge for. So if anything goes wrong in any of them you are going to be majorly out of pocket, and with the potential to have a lot of pissed off investors if you had to go ask other people for help getting the funds for the above.
Even if you are successful in getting the above built and are either self funding or have found investors that are patient enough to wait a very long time on their investment, your new operation is ridiculously easy to obstruct at each stage in the process. If nothing else by use of force.
And before you go bleating on that I have forgotten about the REAs that will be swarming to protect you. I haven't forgotten about them, I have hired them, the best of them are working for me. And I am making sure that they are better trained and equiped tham the remainder that would be willing to work for the amount that you could afford to pay them. Good luck finding qualified people willing to work for you.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
And this bit of advice helps a third party break into the water distribution business how?
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
I'll ask again, because you didn't answer me: @MTGTCG Do you have any response to my post? Here it is again for reference:
Your central error is assuming that "governments" are some mystical non-human-produced force. Rich dudes amassing power and conquering people is how you get kings in the first place, which is a system of government. We started with anarchy everywhere, and now there are governments basically everywhere. You suggest that people will come together in organized resistance against people who are abusing their powers. You're correct, that's what governments are. That's what a police force is.
Clearly every group of people starts in anarchy and eventually results in governments forming. If you think this is a bad thing, then you have to admit anarchies DO tend towards bad things. You're caught in a contradiction.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
If by "square 1" you mean that your argument is dismantled and that you need to start again from a stronger foundation, I agree. Otherwise you'll need some sort of coherent response to the issue I raise.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane