Using the term to refer to a black man being subservient to whites is racist, as it implies whites are superior to blacks.
Wait, so when you insinuate that a single man of some ethnicity is subservient, you insinuate that all men of that ethnicity is subservient?
No, when you imply a man of one race is subservient to a man of another race, because of his race, then you imply that all men of that race are inferior to men of the other race, because the only reason the first man was inferior to the second man was based on the color of his skin.
You're not getting it.
To call someone an "Uncle Tom" is to call someone a black man who acts subservient to white people. It does not imply that people of that race are racially inferior. It implies the exact opposite of that: that black people who behave in a subservient manner to white people are to be looked down upon because black people should not be inferior to white people.
When Thompson called Thomas an "Uncle Tom," he's not saying black people are inferior to white people. In fact, he is saying exactly the opposite. He is saying that Thomas is a black person who acts in a manner that benefits white people at the expense of black people, and is looking down on him because of that.
If he was saying exactly the opposite, that would be black people are superior to white people, which would be racist. But i don't think that is what you meant.
He says he is a black man who acts in favor of white people, and at the expense of black people. This implies that white people and black people have distinct characteristics and abilities that can distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another. It becomes a broadened general statement from one black person, to all black people, because if black and white people did not possess those characteristics to begin with, then no one could act in a manner that made one race superior or inferior to another.
To think in such a way is the definition of racism, so even if that was his intention, he still implies that there are unique characteristics between black and white people that can be acted upon to make one race superior/inferior. (For one race, at the expense of another.)
Racism.
And regardless of all that, it is the connotation of the word. He didn't have to say it in such a way that is known to be racially charged. If you use a racially charged epithet, you can't expect people not to take it as a racially charged statement. When you make a racially charged statement that is judgmental, people are going to take it as racism, because that is what it is.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
He says he is a black man who acts in favor of white people, and at the expense of black people. This implies that white people and black people have distinct characteristics and abilities that can distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
Prove this, please.
Because I really have no idea how you came to this belief.
It's explained in the second part of the paragraph.
It becomes a broadened general statement from one black person, to all black people, because if black and white people did not possess those characteristics to begin with, then no one could act in a manner that made one race superior or inferior to another.
If a race doesn't possess unique characteristics that make it inferior/superior to another race in some way, then you can you act on characteristics to make one race inferior to another?
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
He says he is a black man who acts in favor of white people, and at the expense of black people. This implies that white people and black people have distinct characteristics and abilities that can distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
Prove this, please.
Because I really have no idea how you came to this belief.
Uncle Tom's Cabin was appropriated by minstrel shows. Hence the origin of the term.
And I am sick of white people saying "See? White people are the only real victims of racism!" That's what I'm getting from this thread is a "NO! U!" "I'm not racist; you're racist."
Anyway, my theory is, everyone knows right-wingers (and really, politicians in general) love to show off My _insert race_ Friend™. That's how Clarence Thomas got to be where he was, despite (or rather, because) he was the Chairman of the EEOC and talked about Long Dong Silver to a woman working under him. He rules the way he does to prove to himself that he's not there solely because of his race.
(And of course, he whined about how Anita Hill 'lynched' him. Because we know the KKK was all about helping black women not be sexually harassed.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Do you believe the term "Uncle Tom", and/or terms like it relative to a specific country, are fixed to their own place in the world?
Or does "Uncle Tom" still represent a racial slur anywhere else in the world also?
Well it certainly only works out anywhere they speak english. If you try to go to China and call someone that, they won't understand what you're saying. So that rules out non-english speaking countries.
Since the term came from the American book uncle tom's cabin, and the epithet came from later works inspired by it, all being american novels, it is most likely a strictly american thing. It probably has made it's way over seas, and there are people who know of and understand it, but it certainly isn't anywhere as widely used, if even used at all, which i doubt.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
And I am sick of white people saying "See? White people are the only real victims of racism!"
Um... the only alleged victim in this thread is a black man.
My point remains. Right-wingers are the first to cry about racism when something really isn't racist. It's funny, I can think of examples of leftists just not getting it.
Look at the #CancelColbert campaign. Do you think that if it had been anyone but Stephen Colbert, and if he hadn't actually been skewering the Washington Redskins, Michelle Malkin (who, remember, thinks FDR putting anyone of Japanese ancestry in concentration camps is a wonderful idea, never mind that if she really wanted to discredit the Dems, that would be a damn fine place to start) would've cared about the "Ching Chong Ding Dong Campaign for Sensitivity to Orientals or Whatever"? (I know, Colbert lives off Poe's law, but still...)
It's like when they claim not forcing kids to pray in school violates the First Amendment.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Don't suggest looking at comments sections for an accurate point of view for a group's opinions. If comments were a good indicator, you wouldn't have to ask whether or not conservatives are racist. The comments section of every major news website out there says yes.
But that doesn't actually mean a thing, just like looking at Kotaku's comments after an article about gender discrimination in gaming isn't an accurate reflection of male gamer's views.
Is it racist to call someone an "Uncle Tom"? If so, why are so many liberals OK with it? Aren't they being hypocritical? To me, it is racist and liberals are gigantic hypocrites on this subject. It's saying that as a black person, one is only entitled to hold such and such views, otherwise one is a traitor to one's race. Sounds an awful lot like the kind of language that gets used by the white power movement. Notice how no one comes out and says that white people can only hold such and such views. No, white people are real human beings that are allowed a diverse range of beliefs and ideas. But according to the liberals on Huffington Post, one either tows the line or one is an "Uncle Tom."
Thoughts?
I think you're setting up a false dichotomy. The white power movement is about the inherent superiority of whites. This issue is about advancing a historically discriminated against group, in this case black people. It's not the same thing.
But I also agree with you, it is racist to call someone an Uncle Tom, because ultimately you're calling them a race traitor, which is a pretty fundamentally wrong idea that ties a person's identity and 'tribal allegiance' to their race.
I'm also pretty disgusted with how partisan this thread is. Guess what Liberals and Conservatives: You've all got dumb racists among you.
I actually like the term uncle tom. It describes very real psychology. I think I would use the term for a lot of things, although I'd be very careful not to use it to describe a person of color.
I actually like the term uncle tom. It describes very real psychology. I think I would use the term for a lot of things, although I'd be very careful not to use it to describe a person of color.
... Except, an "Uncle Tom" is, by definition, a black person. It's also not the same thing as Stockholm syndrome. So you're talking about using it in situations other than the one it actually means.
"a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures" ... "or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group."
Whether or not it is right or wrong to call someone an Uncle Tom, it is in my opinion certainly damning of Thompson's character and agenda to call Clarence Thomas one. We need to stop looking at Conservative/Liberal as an extension of Whites/Blacks because it in no way is one. Thomas is not a conservative in order to belittle the African American community. It also deeply bothers me when a successful black man is labeled "less of a black man" because he does not have a rough life or, in some cases, speaks clearly and intelligently.
"a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures" ... "or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group."
And what was that part that you omitted? That it's a black guy, right? Notice how omitting information does not help you.
"a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures" ... "or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group."
And what was that part that you omitted? That it's a black guy, right? Notice how omitting information does not help you.
The full sentence is:
The phrase "Uncle Tom" has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.
Note how it says "or any person". Meaning that the phrase "Uncle Tom" is reffering to, in particular, a black person, OR, in particular, any person.
The phrase "Uncle Tom" has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.
Note how it says "or any person". Meaning that the phrase "Uncle Tom" is reffering to, in particular, a black person, OR, in particular, any person.
Wikipedia is not an authority on language use. Even a dictionary is not an authority on language use. The only authority on language use is the community that uses it. So tell me: have you ever, ever heard "Uncle Tom" used to describe a nonblack person? Because I sure haven't. And I'm willing to bet most of the people around you haven't. So if you decide that you're going to use "Uncle Tom" a lot, but only for people who aren't black (which is kind of a racist notion in its own right), you're just going to get a lot of weird looks. Have you seen Clerks II? Like that.
Also: it's not Stockholm syndrome.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The phrase "Uncle Tom" has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.
Note how it says "or any person". Meaning that the phrase "Uncle Tom" is reffering to, in particular, a black person, OR, in particular, any person.
Wikipedia is not an authority on language use. Even a dictionary is not an authority on language use. The only authority on language use is the community that uses it. So tell me: have you ever, ever heard "Uncle Tom" used to describe a nonblack person? Because I sure haven't. And I'm willing to bet most of the people around you haven't. So if you decide that you're going to use "Uncle Tom" a lot, but only for people who aren't black (which is kind of a racist notion in its own right), you're just going to get a lot of weird looks. Have you seen Clerks II? Like that.
Also: it's not Stockholm syndrome.
I didn't say it was Stockholm Syndrome specifically. I mentioned it as just an example. It wouldn't be surprising to me if the overarching psychology to these things are related.
On the other hand, can you explain how is it not stockholm syndrome?
So tell me: have you ever, ever heard "Uncle Tom" used to describe a nonblack person? Because I sure haven't. And I'm willing to bet most of the people around you haven't.
While I don't disagree with your overall point, there was the instance a few years ago when Barney Frank used the term to describe the Log Cabin Republicans.
So tell me: have you ever, ever heard "Uncle Tom" used to describe a nonblack person? Because I sure haven't. And I'm willing to bet most of the people around you haven't.
While I don't disagree with your overall point, there was the instance a few years ago when Barney Frank used the term to describe the Log Cabin Republicans.
Similarly, a community can try to change the meaning of a word but a larger community may not, and may find that attempt to be offensive...
If I get together with a bunch of my friends and we decide to try to make the n-word mean "cool guy"... Even if we get used to using it that way does not mean anyone else has to accept that meaning.
Yes, it is racist to call someone an Uncle Tom.
It is a racist thing Progressive blacks do to Conservative and/or Libertarian blacks they think are getting too uppity.
Never happens the other way around, and does not occur with any other groups.
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To call someone an "Uncle Tom" is to call someone a black man who acts subservient to white people. It does not imply that people of that race are racially inferior. It implies the exact opposite of that: that black people who behave in a subservient manner to white people are to be looked down upon because black people should not be inferior to white people.
When Thompson called Thomas an "Uncle Tom," he's not saying black people are inferior to white people. In fact, he is saying exactly the opposite. He is saying that Thomas is a black person who acts in a manner that benefits white people at the expense of black people, and is looking down on him because of that.
He says he is a black man who acts in favor of white people, and at the expense of black people. This implies that white people and black people have distinct characteristics and abilities that can distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another. It becomes a broadened general statement from one black person, to all black people, because if black and white people did not possess those characteristics to begin with, then no one could act in a manner that made one race superior or inferior to another.
To think in such a way is the definition of racism, so even if that was his intention, he still implies that there are unique characteristics between black and white people that can be acted upon to make one race superior/inferior. (For one race, at the expense of another.)
Racism.
And regardless of all that, it is the connotation of the word. He didn't have to say it in such a way that is known to be racially charged. If you use a racially charged epithet, you can't expect people not to take it as a racially charged statement. When you make a racially charged statement that is judgmental, people are going to take it as racism, because that is what it is.
Prove this, please.
Because I really have no idea how you came to this belief.
If a race doesn't possess unique characteristics that make it inferior/superior to another race in some way, then you can you act on characteristics to make one race inferior to another?
I recommend reading the book.
And I am sick of white people saying "See? White people are the only real victims of racism!" That's what I'm getting from this thread is a "NO! U!" "I'm not racist; you're racist."
Anyway, my theory is, everyone knows right-wingers (and really, politicians in general) love to show off My _insert race_ Friend™. That's how Clarence Thomas got to be where he was, despite (or rather, because) he was the Chairman of the EEOC and talked about Long Dong Silver to a woman working under him. He rules the way he does to prove to himself that he's not there solely because of his race.
(And of course, he whined about how Anita Hill 'lynched' him. Because we know the KKK was all about helping black women not be sexually harassed.)
On phasing:
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I have a question for you all.
Do you believe the term "Uncle Tom", and/or terms like it relative to a specific country, are fixed to their own place in the world?
Or does "Uncle Tom" still represent a racial slur anywhere else in the world also?
Since the term came from the American book uncle tom's cabin, and the epithet came from later works inspired by it, all being american novels, it is most likely a strictly american thing. It probably has made it's way over seas, and there are people who know of and understand it, but it certainly isn't anywhere as widely used, if even used at all, which i doubt.
My point remains. Right-wingers are the first to cry about racism when something really isn't racist. It's funny, I can think of examples of leftists just not getting it.
Look at the #CancelColbert campaign. Do you think that if it had been anyone but Stephen Colbert, and if he hadn't actually been skewering the Washington Redskins, Michelle Malkin (who, remember, thinks FDR putting anyone of Japanese ancestry in concentration camps is a wonderful idea, never mind that if she really wanted to discredit the Dems, that would be a damn fine place to start) would've cared about the "Ching Chong Ding Dong Campaign for Sensitivity to Orientals or Whatever"? (I know, Colbert lives off Poe's law, but still...)
It's like when they claim not forcing kids to pray in school violates the First Amendment.
On phasing:
Don't suggest looking at comments sections for an accurate point of view for a group's opinions. If comments were a good indicator, you wouldn't have to ask whether or not conservatives are racist. The comments section of every major news website out there says yes.
But that doesn't actually mean a thing, just like looking at Kotaku's comments after an article about gender discrimination in gaming isn't an accurate reflection of male gamer's views.
I think you're setting up a false dichotomy. The white power movement is about the inherent superiority of whites. This issue is about advancing a historically discriminated against group, in this case black people. It's not the same thing.
But I also agree with you, it is racist to call someone an Uncle Tom, because ultimately you're calling them a race traitor, which is a pretty fundamentally wrong idea that ties a person's identity and 'tribal allegiance' to their race.
I'm also pretty disgusted with how partisan this thread is. Guess what Liberals and Conservatives: You've all got dumb racists among you.
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"a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures" ... "or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group."
Uncle Tom is defined by the dictionary as a derogatory noun, the definition being "a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile."
Is it racist to call someone a derogatory term based on their race? Yes.
The full sentence is:
The phrase "Uncle Tom" has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.
Note how it says "or any person". Meaning that the phrase "Uncle Tom" is reffering to, in particular, a black person, OR, in particular, any person.
Also: it's not Stockholm syndrome.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I didn't say it was Stockholm Syndrome specifically. I mentioned it as just an example. It wouldn't be surprising to me if the overarching psychology to these things are related.
On the other hand, can you explain how is it not stockholm syndrome?
Pure speculation on your part.
I actually can, but this is blatant burden-of-proof shifting, and I'm not just gonna let you do that.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
While I don't disagree with your overall point, there was the instance a few years ago when Barney Frank used the term to describe the Log Cabin Republicans.
Similarly, a community can try to change the meaning of a word but a larger community may not, and may find that attempt to be offensive...
If I get together with a bunch of my friends and we decide to try to make the n-word mean "cool guy"... Even if we get used to using it that way does not mean anyone else has to accept that meaning.
It is a racist thing Progressive blacks do to Conservative and/or Libertarian blacks they think are getting too uppity.
Never happens the other way around, and does not occur with any other groups.