After calling Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" recently, Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) defended his comments to CNN, saying, "But I'm black."
Thompson's initial comment came when he called in to a New Nation of Islam radio show Sunday. He said Thomas was an "Uncle Tom," adding that "it's almost to the point saying this man doesn't like black people, he doesn't like being black," according to The Week.
CNN's Dana Bash followed up with Thompson on Wednesday, asking him whether the term he used was racially charged.
"For some it is, but to others it's the truth," he said.
Bash said if a white person had used the term, it would be inappropriate. "But I'm black," Thompson replied.
"That makes it OK?" Bash asked.
"I mean, you're asking me the question, and I'm giving you a response," Thompson said. "The people that I represent, for the most part, have a real issue with those decisions -- voter ID, affirmative action, Affordable Care Act -- all those issues are very important, and for someone in the court who's African American and not sensitive to that is a real problem."
During the Sunday radio show, the 11-term congressman also accused Republicans of opposing President Barack Obama's initiatives because Obama is black.
“I’ve been in Washington. I saw three presidents now. I never saw George Bush treated like this. I never saw Bill Clinton treated like this with such disrespect," Thompson said, according to audio posted by BuzzFeed. "That Mitch McConnell would have the audacity to tell the president of the United States -- not the chief executive, but the commander-in-chief -- that ‘I don’t care what you come up with we’re going to be against it.’ Now if that’s not a racist statement I don’t know what is.”
CNN's Bash asked Thompson on Wednesday what specific comments led him to say GOP members are being harsher with Obama because of his race.
"I've seen quite a few State of the Union messages, I've never heard a president called a liar in a State of the Union message," Thompson said, referring to Rep. Joe Wilson's (R-S.C.) outcry of "You lie!" during Obama's September 2009 address to a joint session of Congress.
Pay particular attention to the comments section.
Is it racist to call someone an "Uncle Tom"? If so, why are so many liberals OK with it? Aren't they being hypocritical? To me, it is racist and liberals are gigantic hypocrites on this subject. It's saying that as a black person, one is only entitled to hold such and such views, otherwise one is a traitor to one's race. Sounds an awful lot like the kind of language that gets used by the white power movement. Notice how no one comes out and says that white people can only hold such and such views. No, white people are real human beings that are allowed a diverse range of beliefs and ideas. But according to the liberals on Huffington Post, one either tows the line or one is an "Uncle Tom."
*Sigh* Of course it's a racially-charged term. It's a term used against a black person that accuses him of being against black people.
Thompson is correct. He's black, he gets to use it.
Also:
“I’ve been in Washington. I saw three presidents now. I never saw George Bush treated like this. I never saw Bill Clinton treated like this with such disrespect," Thompson said
Too bad this country didn't have some 'freedom of speech' rule, so people could just say what they want...
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being called out for the things you say.
...as I knew I would be, just for saying so... but I do agree with you to an extent.
I jus think the 'he said, she said political bull*****' is a bit too much of an issue these days.
Really... don't these guys have bigger things to worry about?
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If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
“I’ve been in Washington. I saw three presidents now. I never saw George Bush treated like this. I never saw Bill Clinton treated like this with such disrespect," Thompson said, according to audio posted by BuzzFeed. "That Mitch McConnell would have the audacity to tell the president of the United States -- not the chief executive, but the commander-in-chief -- that ‘I don’t care what you come up with we’re going to be against it.’ Now if that’s not a racist statement I don’t know what is.”
What? Wasn't that basically what Pelosi did to GWB?
"Now if that's not a racist statement..."... I don't agree here at all.
Its only a racist statement because he focused on the fact two different races were involved.
If both these guys were the same race, it would be one dude saying "You're an idiot, and I don't agree with you."
But now the real issues at hand are lost under a pile of 'racial this and that'... wonderful.
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If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
*Sigh* Of course it's a racially-charged term. It's a term used against a black person that accuses him of being against black people.
Thomas is correct. He's black, he gets to use it.
Do neo-nazis get to use the term "race traitor" without being treated like the bumbling buffoons they are? No, they don't, and that's as it should be. Further, if being conservative means one is, by definition, being against people of color, does that mean that to be liberal is to be against white people? Come on, man.
EDIT:
one either tows the line
TOE the line. Not "tow."
Thanks.
Quote from algebra »
When slavery was legal in america was it racist for a field slave to call a house slave an uncle tom? Why or why not?
Is the modern day Republican platform equivalent to the doctrine of chattel slavery?
Quote from magickware99 »
What? Wasn't that basically what Pelosi did to GWB?
It's not as if people had George W. Bush = Hitler signs, too.
Is the modern day Republican platform equivalent to the doctrine of chattel slavery?
Absolutely not. My first question had nothing to do with the republican party. I just want to cut right to the heart of the phrase uncle tom. Was this a racist term to begin with?
So I ask again; when slavery was legal in america was it racist for a field slave to call a house slave an uncle tom? Why or why not?
"a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile."
So, yeah, i would say even back then, it would be pretty racist. And it is now. It's also confirmed as "noun-derogatory."
Now, the phrase Uncle Tom came from the book Uncle Tom's Cabin. That book came out in 1851. Slavery was all but abolished in 1865. Mississippi didn't actually ratify the amendment until 2013, but that is a different argument. So there was only 14 years between the book coming out, and slavery officially being outlawed.
Seeing as most slaves weren't too well versed in literature, it probably wasn't very common for one slave to refer to another slave in this manner, and it is a phrase that actually came about some time after slavery was outlawed.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
*Sigh* Of course it's a racially-charged term. It's a term used against a black person that accuses him of being against black people.
Do neo-nazis get to use the term "race traitor" without being treated like the bumbling buffoons they are? No, they don't, and that's as it should be.
Ok, I reread what I wrote, and I definitely need to rephrase, and clarify my point.
If you're asking if Thompson made a racist remark, the answer is of course he did.
If you're asking whether Thompson is within his rights to call someone an "Uncle Tom," the answer is yes. Free speech, plus, he's black, he has N-word privileges.
This is what I meant by "Thompson is right." Now, to clarify: do I agree with Thompson? No. He's a ******* moron.
"a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile."
So, yeah, i would say even back then, it would be pretty racist. And it is now. It's also confirmed as "noun-derogatory."
Now, the phrase Uncle Tom came from the book Uncle Tom's Cabin. That book came out in 1851. Slavery was all but abolished in 1865. Mississippi didn't actually ratify the amendment until 2013, but that is a different argument. So there was only 14 years between the book coming out, and slavery officially being outlawed.
Seeing as most slaves weren't too well versed in literature, it probably wasn't very common for one slave to refer to another slave in this manner, and it is a phrase that actually came about some time after slavery was outlawed.
Here is an old post from another thread about rascism.
Racism requires:
- The belief that humanity can be properly subdivided into identifiable races.
- The belief that those races have some inherent traits that make them inferior and/or superior.
- The erasure of individual characteristics from consideration in favor of the inherent racial ones.
- The belief that different treatment is justified by the above.
The phrase uncle tom is a derogatory epitaph. Is is a racist epitaph?
The speaker fulfills requirement one, he is clearly subdividing humanity into racial groups.
Does the speaker fulfill the second requirement? How does the phrase uncle tom promote inferiority or superiority on any race?
Does the speaker fulfill the third requirement? The speaker seems to judge Justice Thomas based on his actions and skin color not solely based on skin color?
I always thought uncle tom was about in-group behavior. Like when a republican calls someone a RINO. The big problem here is the use of race as the grouping and defining in and out-group behavior based on race. I think creating the group was racist. After the group was created uncle tom was derogatory way of saying you do not exhibit correct group behavior.
The term came out of an attempt by white people in minstrel shows and whatnot to subvert the figure in the book, turning it into an individual who is just subservient to white people and frail and powerless. If you had actually read the book, then you'd realize pretty quickly that Uncle Tom is neither subservient nor powerless and frail.
Later then black people took "ownership" and continued to it use it in that manner.
But people are too quick to categorize things as racist these days. The term isn't racist; as others have mentioned it's derogatory.
What? Wasn't that basically what Pelosi did to GWB?
It's not as if people had George W. Bush = Hitler signs, too.
Oh wait, yes they did.
Pretty sure many die-hard Democrats said Bush is trying to destroy our country/create a police-state too. And some people equated him with the anti-Christ.
“I’ve been in Washington. I saw three presidents now. I never saw George Bush treated like this. I never saw Bill Clinton treated like this with such disrespect," Thompson said, according to audio posted by BuzzFeed. "That Mitch McConnell would have the audacity to tell the president of the United States -- not the chief executive, but the commander-in-chief -- that ‘I don’t care what you come up with we’re going to be against it.’ Now if that’s not a racist statement I don’t know what is.”
What? Wasn't that basically what Pelosi did to GWB?
Or what Gringrich did to Clinton for that matter?
This entire tangent misses the point of the original claim.
He did not say that the democrats were respectful to Bush or that the republicans were respectful towards Clinton. There are four possible answers to the following question. Which president was disrespected by the opposing party more, Obama, Bush, or Clinton? Obama, Bush, Clinton or neither they were disrespected an equal amount. Now we may never know the answer to that question, but I would actually bet money that the answer is not equally.
No offense, but I couldn't care less what another thread dictates racist as meaning. The definition of racist is-
"having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another."
"The term "Uncle Tom" is used as a derogatory epithet for an excessively subservient black man, particularly when that person perceives their own lower-class status based on race. It is similarly used to negatively describe a person who betrays their own group by participating in its oppression, whether or not they do so willingly.
Using the term to refer to a black man being subservient to whites is racist, as it implies whites are superior to blacks.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Does the speaker fulfill the third requirement? The speaker seems to judge Justice Thomas based on his actions and skin color not solely based on skin color?
This logic, if taken seriously, would seem to imply that "he's a criminal, he's black, therefore black people are criminals" isn't racist because it's a judgment based on action (crime) as well as skin color, rather than solely skin color. I think we have to admit some action in our definition of racism in order for it to make any sense.
Pretty sure many die-hard Democrats said Bush is trying to destroy our country/create a police-state too. And some people equated him with the anti-Christ.
There are some leaders in the black community who engage responsibly with the difficult challenges surrounding American race relations today. There are also some leaders in the black community who espouse flagrant double standards and shout "racism!" at any sign of opposition. Mr. Thompson appears to be one of the latter. I have long since learned simply to ignore them.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
He did not say that the democrats were respectful to Bush or that the republicans were respectful towards Clinton. There are four possible answers to the following question. Which president was disrespected by the opposing party more, Obama, Bush, or Clinton? Obama, Bush, Clinton or neither they were disrespected an equal amount. Now we may never know the answer to that question, but I would actually bet money that the answer is not equally.
I realize. I am more referring to the McConnell comment.
IIRC, Pelosi essentially did the same road-blocking against GWB late into his 2nd presidency when virtually every Democrat claimed to at least dislike him a lot. And Gringrich did the same thing when he and Clinton had their epic showdown during Clinton's first presidency.
Not too particularly relevant but the first thing I thought about is that nowadays, people take offense to everything that is said. I could say "That guy is a twix bar" and somewhere, someone will take offense to that.
Does the speaker fulfill the third requirement? The speaker seems to judge Justice Thomas based on his actions and skin color not solely based on skin color?
This logic, if taken seriously, would seem to imply that "he's a criminal, he's black, therefore black people are criminals" isn't racist because it's a judgment based on action (crime) as well as skin color, rather than solely skin color. I think we have to admit some action in our definition of racism in order for it to make any sense.
This counter example confuses me.
Your hypothetical conclusion seems to be exactly what I was describing as racist. In the conclusion you ignore the individual characteristics and assume that all other black people act like the one black person that did commit a crime. Your premise is not racist, but your conclusion which ignores all individual characteristics of other black people is racist.
For me the racist part happens when Bennie Thompson assumes all black people believe X, Y, and Z. Or I think his premise is racist and his conclusion is derogatory.
Racism requires:
- The belief that humanity can be properly subdivided into identifiable races.
- The belief that those races have some inherent traits that make them inferior and/or superior.
- The erasure of individual characteristics from consideration in favor of the inherent racial ones.
- The belief that different treatment is justified by the above.
So, 1 is obvious. 2 isnt overtly stated, but by calling someone an uncle tom, you're saying that 1)True black people hold a set of beliefs and 2)they are superior to the different beliefs that you hold. Characterizing someone as a "good black" or "bad black" based on beliefs is absolutely comparing the individual to preconcieved notions of what a race should be. 3 and 4 are self-evident. Thomas as a person is ignored in favor of how he stands on these policies, and he is treated very badly by idiotic politicians such as this.
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Using the term to refer to a black man being subservient to whites is racist, as it implies whites are superior to blacks.
Wait, so when you insinuate that a single man of some ethnicity is subservient, you insinuate that all men of that ethnicity is subservient?
No, when you imply a man of one race is subservient to a man of another race, because of his race, then you imply that all men of that race are inferior to men of the other race, because the only reason the first man was inferior to the second man was based on the color of his skin.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
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Pay particular attention to the comments section.
Is it racist to call someone an "Uncle Tom"? If so, why are so many liberals OK with it? Aren't they being hypocritical? To me, it is racist and liberals are gigantic hypocrites on this subject. It's saying that as a black person, one is only entitled to hold such and such views, otherwise one is a traitor to one's race. Sounds an awful lot like the kind of language that gets used by the white power movement. Notice how no one comes out and says that white people can only hold such and such views. No, white people are real human beings that are allowed a diverse range of beliefs and ideas. But according to the liberals on Huffington Post, one either tows the line or one is an "Uncle Tom."
Thoughts?
However, I would never advise anyone to pay attention to the comments section of huffpo. That's basically the democrat version of the trolls on /b/
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When a conservative calls another republican a RINO is it bigotry? Why or why not?
Thompson is correct. He's black, he gets to use it.
Also:
Never saw George W. Bush treated with disrespect?
EDIT: TOE the line. Not "tow."
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If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
...as I knew I would be, just for saying so... but I do agree with you to an extent.
I jus think the 'he said, she said political bull*****' is a bit too much of an issue these days.
Really... don't these guys have bigger things to worry about?
-LEGACY-- RUR SpellDelver UWU Superfriends with Benefits
-MODERN- GBG B/G GoodGrief GRG R/G Go[o]dstuff
-CHROME- GGG Mean Green WUB Spirit Tribal
-PAUPER-- WBG Enchantments RUG RUG Delver
-1v1 EDH-- UB Lazav's Grindhouse BB Death by Sheoldred
If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
What? Wasn't that basically what Pelosi did to GWB?
Or what Gringrich did to Clinton for that matter?
Its only a racist statement because he focused on the fact two different races were involved.
If both these guys were the same race, it would be one dude saying "You're an idiot, and I don't agree with you."
But now the real issues at hand are lost under a pile of 'racial this and that'... wonderful.
-LEGACY-- RUR SpellDelver UWU Superfriends with Benefits
-MODERN- GBG B/G GoodGrief GRG R/G Go[o]dstuff
-CHROME- GGG Mean Green WUB Spirit Tribal
-PAUPER-- WBG Enchantments RUG RUG Delver
-1v1 EDH-- UB Lazav's Grindhouse BB Death by Sheoldred
If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
Do neo-nazis get to use the term "race traitor" without being treated like the bumbling buffoons they are? No, they don't, and that's as it should be. Further, if being conservative means one is, by definition, being against people of color, does that mean that to be liberal is to be against white people? Come on, man.
Thanks.
Is the modern day Republican platform equivalent to the doctrine of chattel slavery?
It's not as if people had George W. Bush = Hitler signs, too.
Oh wait, yes they did.
Absolutely not. My first question had nothing to do with the republican party. I just want to cut right to the heart of the phrase uncle tom. Was this a racist term to begin with?
So I ask again; when slavery was legal in america was it racist for a field slave to call a house slave an uncle tom? Why or why not?
"a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile."
So, yeah, i would say even back then, it would be pretty racist. And it is now. It's also confirmed as "noun-derogatory."
Now, the phrase Uncle Tom came from the book Uncle Tom's Cabin. That book came out in 1851. Slavery was all but abolished in 1865. Mississippi didn't actually ratify the amendment until 2013, but that is a different argument. So there was only 14 years between the book coming out, and slavery officially being outlawed.
Seeing as most slaves weren't too well versed in literature, it probably wasn't very common for one slave to refer to another slave in this manner, and it is a phrase that actually came about some time after slavery was outlawed.
If you're asking if Thompson made a racist remark, the answer is of course he did.
If you're asking whether Thompson is within his rights to call someone an "Uncle Tom," the answer is yes. Free speech, plus, he's black, he has N-word privileges.
This is what I meant by "Thompson is right." Now, to clarify: do I agree with Thompson? No. He's a ******* moron.
The phrase uncle tom is a derogatory epitaph. Is is a racist epitaph?
The speaker fulfills requirement one, he is clearly subdividing humanity into racial groups.
Does the speaker fulfill the second requirement? How does the phrase uncle tom promote inferiority or superiority on any race?
Does the speaker fulfill the third requirement? The speaker seems to judge Justice Thomas based on his actions and skin color not solely based on skin color?
I always thought uncle tom was about in-group behavior. Like when a republican calls someone a RINO. The big problem here is the use of race as the grouping and defining in and out-group behavior based on race. I think creating the group was racist. After the group was created uncle tom was derogatory way of saying you do not exhibit correct group behavior.
Later then black people took "ownership" and continued to it use it in that manner.
But people are too quick to categorize things as racist these days. The term isn't racist; as others have mentioned it's derogatory.
Pretty sure many die-hard Democrats said Bush is trying to destroy our country/create a police-state too. And some people equated him with the anti-Christ.
This entire tangent misses the point of the original claim.
He did not say that the democrats were respectful to Bush or that the republicans were respectful towards Clinton. There are four possible answers to the following question. Which president was disrespected by the opposing party more, Obama, Bush, or Clinton? Obama, Bush, Clinton or neither they were disrespected an equal amount. Now we may never know the answer to that question, but I would actually bet money that the answer is not equally.
"having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another."
"The term "Uncle Tom" is used as a derogatory epithet for an excessively subservient black man, particularly when that person perceives their own lower-class status based on race. It is similarly used to negatively describe a person who betrays their own group by participating in its oppression, whether or not they do so willingly.
Using the term to refer to a black man being subservient to whites is racist, as it implies whites are superior to blacks.
There are some leaders in the black community who engage responsibly with the difficult challenges surrounding American race relations today. There are also some leaders in the black community who espouse flagrant double standards and shout "racism!" at any sign of opposition. Mr. Thompson appears to be one of the latter. I have long since learned simply to ignore them.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I realize. I am more referring to the McConnell comment.
IIRC, Pelosi essentially did the same road-blocking against GWB late into his 2nd presidency when virtually every Democrat claimed to at least dislike him a lot. And Gringrich did the same thing when he and Clinton had their epic showdown during Clinton's first presidency.
Wait, so when you insinuate that a single man of some ethnicity is subservient, you insinuate that all men of that ethnicity is subservient?
This counter example confuses me.
Your hypothetical conclusion seems to be exactly what I was describing as racist. In the conclusion you ignore the individual characteristics and assume that all other black people act like the one black person that did commit a crime. Your premise is not racist, but your conclusion which ignores all individual characteristics of other black people is racist.
For me the racist part happens when Bennie Thompson assumes all black people believe X, Y, and Z. Or I think his premise is racist and his conclusion is derogatory.
So, 1 is obvious. 2 isnt overtly stated, but by calling someone an uncle tom, you're saying that 1)True black people hold a set of beliefs and 2)they are superior to the different beliefs that you hold. Characterizing someone as a "good black" or "bad black" based on beliefs is absolutely comparing the individual to preconcieved notions of what a race should be. 3 and 4 are self-evident. Thomas as a person is ignored in favor of how he stands on these policies, and he is treated very badly by idiotic politicians such as this.
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BR Wortsnort
UG 23.5-No Edric
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GUB Damia Stax
WBR Alesha Hatebear Recursion
WBR Daddy Tariel
UBR [Je]love-a Your Deck
GWU Almost Critterless Enchantress
WUB Sydri+Artifacts=WUB
WURG Glint-Eye Combo
No, when you imply a man of one race is subservient to a man of another race, because of his race, then you imply that all men of that race are inferior to men of the other race, because the only reason the first man was inferior to the second man was based on the color of his skin.