If student debt is forgiven then I want a full ride to the school of my choosing.
I could have racked up tens of thousands of dollars of debt but I didn't, because I am responsible.
EDIT: What would be really funny is if someone could find the terms of repayment for the bailout and compare it to the terms of repayment that most people have on their college loans to see how they differ. I would love to be able to respond to these people who say they want their own bailout by telling them what the corporations had to do after they got the bailout money.
The bailouts were not absurd because they were (largely) repaid! The entire term "bailout" is a misnomer because taxpayers did not GIVE $1 trillion to corporations. The final tally is supposed to be under $25 billion. TARP was the most successful program in handling the recession.
If students intend to repay their student loans with interest, that'd be fair. Of course, they're already on loans.
The corporations never should have been bailed out in the first place. Poor business decisions (especially horrible ones) should have consequences just like random college student X deciding to spend tens of thousands on *insert obscure degree here*.
Forgiveness on all student loan debt though is still absurd, in the same way the bailouts were.
Well, a bunch of students defaulting on loans doesn't pose the same kind of danger as a large chunk of the economy disappearing overnight... but I agree that just "forgiving" all the debt is pretty silly.
It's still an extremely far left wing list. If they truly wanted to represent the "99%," they have to move their list a lot to the right to get it to the middle of the road. Right now, it's hitting on a lot of the Liberal wishes and nothing in support of the Conservatives - which outnumber Liberals 2:1 last time people were polled on ideological alignments. If they want to represent everyone that isn't in the top 1% of our society, they have to represent Conservatives at least as much as Liberals.
I think (with a few definitely leftist exceptions) that Chicago list is pretty centrist. The problem is that the political discourse has shifted rightward over the years because of conservative influence; this doesn't mean that 2/3 of the country is right-wing (where did you hear that?) of course. In fact I think it's more like 60% "moderate."
3. Don't stop at just the Wall Street bankers. Nail all the politicians who helped as well, or stood in the way of early measures that may have avoided the entire mess because they swore Fannie and Freddie didn't need any Federal oversight.
More like, find out who wasn't responsible and recall everyone else. That'd be an easier job
4. That's fine. Corporations shouldn't be making unlimited contributions to political campaigns. But neither should unions. Unions are freely spending their members' dues on political campaigns supporting the politicians who will extend the power of unions, whether or not the members support those politicians as well. If corporations can't have a say in politics, neither should unions.
For perspective, only like 3 unions are very big on political contributions (compared to conservative PACs and such). But I agree; donations should be limited across the board. There's no reason why one candidate with a few super rich backers should be able to meet or exceed the spending of a candidate with a horde of middle-class and working-class backers.
10. No. We got rid of the Fairness Doctrine for a reason.
This doesn't look much like the Fairness Doctrine, since it's strictly limited to campaigns and such. Although it does seem like a dig at FOX News, since a lot of the GOP candidates are/were paid contributors over there. *shrug* I'd just like to see more substantive debates.
Hell, a March-Madness style bracket of one-on-one debates leading up to the conventions (and of course the winner-vs-winner Presidential debates afterward) would be right up the 24-hour-news-machine's alley.
If student debt is forgiven then I want a full ride to the school of my choosing.
I could have racked up tens of thousands of dollars of debt but I didn't, because I am responsible.
EDIT: What would be really funny is if someone could find the terms of repayment for the bailout and compare it to the terms of repayment that most people have on their college loans to see how they differ. I would love to be able to respond to these people who say they want their own bailout by telling them what the corporations had to do after they got the bailout money.
Now, if a bunch of money were set aside for, say, a neo-CCC for indebted/unemployed students... that'd be sweet. Basically do some basic infrastructure/community improvement for a certain amount of time to work off the loans. And get paid a reasonable wage! And fix up the country!
Even an English Lit major can do manual labor
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Do I Contradict Myself? Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Seems to me a lot of the complaints stem from not wanting to do anything yet receive all the benefits.
Well, a bunch of students defaulting on loans doesn't pose the same kind of danger as a large chunk of the economy disappearing overnight... but I agree that just "forgiving" all the debt is pretty silly.
a few big names in the economic sectors a while ago have said that this will be the next biggest financial meltdown. as students can't find jobs to cover the loans that it takes to get through college.
you spend 30K on an education to find a job that makes 25K if that.
I would love to be able to respond to these people who say they want their own bailout by telling them what the corporations had to do after they got the bailout money.
as someone else said the bailouts should have never happened though. it leads to a sicker economy and something that businesses will expect later on if it would happen again.
student loan debt is one of the most crippling things in society. more so since education and college costs continue to go up higher and higher and entry level wages (if you can find them) are not meeting the cost of school.
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Now, if a bunch of money were set aside for, say, a neo-CCC for indebted/unemployed students... that'd be sweet. Basically do some basic infrastructure/community improvement for a certain amount of time to work off the loans. And get paid a reasonable wage! And fix up the country!
Even an English Lit major can do manual labor
Well, to be honest countries such as Germany that do have free tuition also have a mandatory 2 years service period for citizens. I know for males, not sure on females. But as I've stated before I think the forms of service should be greatly expanded, such as teaching in an inner city school for 3 years or some other form of aid work, being taxed at 3% of income for 20 years, or something outrageous like if you start a business all your loans turn into grants and even if the company sinks after 3-4 years of trying to make it float you can walk away debt free (granted you would also be bankrupt from the company if it went down).
I don't mind getting rid of student loans, what I want in return for that are services and creation of actual companies that will "do something" and employ people. The total sum of student loans are about $685 billion in a $15 trillion economy that in the coming decades relative to world GDP can reach upwards of $30 trillion over the next 50 years is not that bad.
I would argue also for some more people to work overseas in a foreign company for at least 4 years (one year per year of education). This is something that the Japanese and other rising powers did and do all the time, they send their children abroad and then many come back home with new business connections. We never explore that, we basically import all our brain power instead sending our kids abroad to learn from other people and bring back new innovations. It's stupid we never leech off of innovations in places like Singapore or the old world in general.
student loan debt is one of the most crippling things in society. more so since education and college costs continue to go up higher and higher and entry level wages (if you can find them) are not meeting the cost of school.
It screws up the whole progression of things, where a young person would buy up a family home is instead paying back for an overinflated price for education. Education is a continual process, not just always something that's done for four years and not all jobs require a college degree and would be better serviced with an apprenticeship program in high school.
With terminal degrees it's pathetic everything from an MBA to a JD which don't require that much headroom to actually use are stupidly priced now. I can understand some what for an MD. But when a Phd. in something like economics or multiple other science degrees aren't as expensive as the MBA or JD it makes me stop and wonder. I feel that the dollars from easy money have helped to jack up those degrees beyond their intrinsic value.
Frankly speaking, I've already got a terminal degree, but I've been wanting a JD since I was a kid as a form of accomplishment but the price has been something of a restriction. I could swing about 50-60k, but the average of 100-140k is not going to happen. Then combine that with having to save up for 2 children's degrees places a hamper on that.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The bailouts were not absurd because they were (largely) repaid! The entire term "bailout" is a misnomer because taxpayers did not GIVE $1 trillion to corporations. The final tally is supposed to be under $25 billion. TARP was the most successful program in handling the recession.
If students intend to repay their student loans with interest, that'd be fair. Of course, they're already on loans.
I'm sure if you could use your student loans to make safe bets in the stock/treasury market and pocket the profits this would be a non issue.
Banks were given loans and told to lend to consumers, but only safe ones. Banks couldn't find any safe consumers who wanted money so they bought treasuries and stocks. This lifted the market (fake) and made them easy money to repay their bailouts.
All they really had to do instead of sloshing around several billion dollars would have been to modify the requirement for "mark to market" accounting.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
This movement has nothing to do with demands; it has everything to do with restoring the power of the people. All they are pointing out will come to pass, if only we show up and remind ourselves that we are not alone and that this is OUR public space.
No matter where you are, there is an Occupy nearby. No matter where you are, there is a community assembling that loves you, believes in your individual sovereignty, and yet still wants to extend a collective voice.
Undoing 80 years of corporate malfeasance and 30 years of war on education is not going to fit on a single-page, double-spaced, bullet-point list. Sorry.
The most important thing to remember is this: We were all supernovas once. Every atom in your body was once an exploded star, and the Occupy Together movement is an opportunity for you to help your atoms remember and actualize their potentiality. The movement is happening because of a need for economic justice and accountability. You can come for any reason you please.
Join us.
-Occupying Los Angeles since Oct. 1 This is what our occupancy looks like. Nothing but love and peace.
Til I’m toppling from the top I’m not going to stop
I’m standing on my Monopoly board
That means I’m on top of my game
And it don't stop 'til my hip don’t hop anymore
The most important thing to remember is this: We were all supernovas once. Every atom in your body was once an exploded star, and the Occupy Together movement is an opportunity for you to help your atoms remember and actualize their potentiality. The movement is happening because of a need for economic justice and accountability. You can come for any reason you please.
Join us.
-Occupying Los Angeles since Oct. 1 This is what our occupancy looks like. Nothing but love and peace.
Update: LAPD off-duty officers have officially begun donating food, sunscreen, and supplies to the occupancy. How about a debate concerning what is so wrong with NYPD that they can only crack down?
Til I’m toppling from the top I’m not going to stop
I’m standing on my Monopoly board
That means I’m on top of my game
And it don't stop 'til my hip don’t hop anymore
I was going to go through these are give my peace, but I agree with quite a bit of it. the ideology of all of it is great. Some of the methods are slightly skewed, but if our government took as much of a role as random people do then we would not be stuck in this.
Political compensation is way to high which is why we get so many people who want to be politicians for the pay and the cushy job instead of furthering our society. This is why everyone is so worried about election and why we can't pass things through congress.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Now i dont want to get in to how terrible this reporting is and i frankly cant fathom how anyone can consider this news, and as i was about to click away in disgust i came across this....
colour me shocked but to see a poll on fox news with hundreds of thousands of votes that clearly shows a majority of people DO think the system isnt set up to be fair for the working class and is in fact advantageous to corporations. Does anyone know a reason why a fox news poll would have this outcome?
Finally, a quick question regarding the idea of the 99% vs the 1% and how the occupy wall street protesters arent speaking for YOU. The idea behind the 99% is simply that the richest 1% in american got RICHER in the last decade. think about that for a moment. In a massive recession that made millions of people unemployed and struggle to put food on their families tables.... the rich got RICHER. how does that happen? Mystery45? any explanation on how the 99% are struggling more than ever and yet the wealthiest 1% became wealthier? it CANT be the system, it must be that they are SO much better than the other 99% that they accumulate wealth even in recession times while everyone else fails.
colour me shocked but to see a poll on fox news with hundreds of thousands of votes that clearly shows a majority of people DO think the system isnt set up to be fair for the working class and is in fact advantageous to corporations. Does anyone know a reason why a fox news poll would have this outcome?
It also if you read the label at the bottom a non-scientific poll. meaning it really carries no weight and has probably tons of bias as people could possibly vote more than once.
The idea behind the 99% is simply that the richest 1% in american got RICHER in the last decade. think about that for a moment. In a massive recession that made millions of people unemployed and struggle to put food on their families tables.... the rich got RICHER.
yea and they also pay the most in taxes as well about 40%.
Mystery45? any explanation on how the 99% are struggling more than ever and yet the wealthiest 1% became wealthier?
first off this 99% number is BS. i severly doubt that 99% of america is suffering some horrible fate and can't put food on the table and can't pay rent etc. so lets get that straight first off.
secondly the the unemployeement rate is 9% or so which mean that the other 91% of people are working. if you want to look at underemployeement and people that aren't looking it is 17% which means that 83% of the people are not under employeed. so again we can see that this 99% number is BS, but it does make a great slogan to uninformed and uneducated people.
as for how they got richer easy. they saved and invested instead of spending their butts off. pretty simple. if you want to get rich then you have to save and invest and continue to save and invest. that is the only way to get rich.
most people don't live like that. they spend spend spend. what they can't afford they throw on credit cards and the cycle continues. instead of paying it off they just make the minimum payment yet continue to charge stuff to it.
they don't save or invest their money.
as one report had it a guy quit his job so he could go to this occupy thing and complain about jobs. really? you quit your job so you can go complain about not having a job?
to compare this thing to anything other than stupidity would give it to much credit.
700 people + have been arrested so far for various crimes. some how i am not surprised that the president or the democrats would try to give credibility to these people when it is largely their policies that have put them out of work, and continue for the economy to struggle.
when you wage war on the successful and business people in the world they tend not to hire people.
it CANT be the system, it must be that they are SO much better than the other 99% that they accumulate wealth even in recession times while everyone else fails.
people that are successful with money know how to make money both in good times and bad times. that is just a given. they know how to protect their investments and move their investments into safer places so not to take as big of a hit.
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Interesting article on fox news today. an opinion piece that i thought had some interesting relevant points.
one quote i found particularly interesting was
"In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined."
I am hoping someone can explain to me why those 400 people deserve to have more wealth then 150 million people combined in the same country or even same city as them, without resorting to "thats the system" because if that IS the system, then clearly it needs checks and balances.
I am hoping someone can explain to me why those 400 people deserve to have more wealth then 150 million people combined in the same country or even same city as them, without resorting to "thats the system" because if that IS the system, then clearly it needs checks and balances.
Why do you care how much money someone else has? The economy is not a zero-sum game.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I don't think its directly about "oh, that guys richer than me"
More about income disparity. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. People like the Kock Brothers spending millions upon millions of dollars getting people elected who pass legislation that makes them billions while the rest of us get damaged environment and layoffs.
Bank of America has gigantic executive bonuses and just layed off 30,000 people.
I think most of us and the OWS crowd don't want to live in a de facto oligarchy
So complain about these ridiculous golden parachutes we're seeing. Complain about corporations rewarding failure to the tune of millions of dollars. But don't complain about some people having more money than others like that's automatically a bad thing.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
So complain about these ridiculous golden parachutes we're seeing. Complain about corporations rewarding failure to the tune of millions of dollars. But don't complain about some people having more money than others like that's automatically a bad thing.
If people having more money than other is largely a result of the things that you mentioned, among others, then why can't we criticize it?
If people having more money than other is largely a result of the things that you mentioned, among others, then why can't we criticize it?
because you are criticizing the wrong thing. You're criticizing the upset stomach when what you should be criticizing is the flu virus that is giving you the upset stomach.
I am hoping someone can explain to me why those 400 people deserve to have more wealth then 150 million people combined in the same country or even same city as them, without resorting to "thats the system" because if that IS the system, then clearly it needs checks and balances.
probably because they worked and or save for it? i mean it just didn't come out of thin air.
who are you to say they don't deserve what they worked for?
If people having more money than other is largely a result of the things that you mentioned, among others, then why can't we criticize it?
umm not really. most people make money with in the bounds of the law. i would say that there is maybe 5% of those that don't.
Having more money at the expense of those around you, and the system you participate in IS a bad thing.
this would imply some sort of theft or other illegal activity. while there is some of that most in general are upstanding citizens that obey the law.
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So complain about these ridiculous golden parachutes we're seeing. Complain about corporations rewarding failure to the tune of millions of dollars. But don't complain about some people having more money than others like that's automatically a bad thing.
Fair point. Problem of Knowledge I suppose.
I'm really trying to hammer on the last line, that they are using their wealth to keep others down. Like a couple other posters commented on.
probably because they worked and or save for it? i mean it just didn't come out of thin air.
who are you to say they don't deserve what they worked for?
You don't get to owning 5% of the country through proper saving techniques. Bill Gates got their through, along with Steve Jobs, creating computing technology as we know it. Buffet does stocks or w/e. The Koch Brothers? Destroying the environment for profit. Then you have the wal mart triplets, George Soros and some Casino guy rounding out the top 10 on the Forbe's list
Quote from mystery45 »
umm not really. most people make money with in the bounds of the law. i would say that there is maybe 5% of those that don't.
Did you know that 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
Quote from m45 »
this would imply some sort of theft or other illegal activity. while there is some of that most in general are upstanding citizens that obey the law.
I hear using your wealth and influence to shift the tax burden away from yourself is a dick move.
I hear using your wealth and influence to deregulate your industry is a dick move.
I hear breaking the world financial system and causing the second biggest recession in American history is a dick move
Now i dont want to get in to how terrible this reporting is and i frankly cant fathom how anyone can consider this news, and as i was about to click away in disgust i came across this....
colour me shocked but to see a poll on fox news with hundreds of thousands of votes that clearly shows a majority of people DO think the system isnt set up to be fair for the working class and is in fact advantageous to corporations. Does anyone know a reason why a fox news poll would have this outcome?
Finally, a quick question regarding the idea of the 99% vs the 1% and how the occupy wall street protesters arent speaking for YOU. The idea behind the 99% is simply that the richest 1% in american got RICHER in the last decade. think about that for a moment. In a massive recession that made millions of people unemployed and struggle to put food on their families tables.... the rich got RICHER. how does that happen? Mystery45? any explanation on how the 99% are struggling more than ever and yet the wealthiest 1% became wealthier? it CANT be the system, it must be that they are SO much better than the other 99% that they accumulate wealth even in recession times while everyone else fails.
Well to be honest you should avoid fox news. they are biased as hell. CNN is what I typically watch. They tend to lean a bit conservative, but its not those crazy tea-party ****ers.
We do have a poor distribution of wealth in our country. Between that people having off-shore bank accounts and outsourcing of jobs to 3rd world counties our system is failing. Oh and the broken tax code...forgot that one.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thomas Jefferson
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I could have racked up tens of thousands of dollars of debt but I didn't, because I am responsible.
EDIT: What would be really funny is if someone could find the terms of repayment for the bailout and compare it to the terms of repayment that most people have on their college loans to see how they differ. I would love to be able to respond to these people who say they want their own bailout by telling them what the corporations had to do after they got the bailout money.
The corporations never should have been bailed out in the first place. Poor business decisions (especially horrible ones) should have consequences just like random college student X deciding to spend tens of thousands on *insert obscure degree here*.
Well, a bunch of students defaulting on loans doesn't pose the same kind of danger as a large chunk of the economy disappearing overnight... but I agree that just "forgiving" all the debt is pretty silly.
I think (with a few definitely leftist exceptions) that Chicago list is pretty centrist. The problem is that the political discourse has shifted rightward over the years because of conservative influence; this doesn't mean that 2/3 of the country is right-wing (where did you hear that?) of course. In fact I think it's more like 60% "moderate."
More like, find out who wasn't responsible and recall everyone else. That'd be an easier job
For perspective, only like 3 unions are very big on political contributions (compared to conservative PACs and such). But I agree; donations should be limited across the board. There's no reason why one candidate with a few super rich backers should be able to meet or exceed the spending of a candidate with a horde of middle-class and working-class backers.
This doesn't look much like the Fairness Doctrine, since it's strictly limited to campaigns and such. Although it does seem like a dig at FOX News, since a lot of the GOP candidates are/were paid contributors over there. *shrug* I'd just like to see more substantive debates.
Hell, a March-Madness style bracket of one-on-one debates leading up to the conventions (and of course the winner-vs-winner Presidential debates afterward) would be right up the 24-hour-news-machine's alley.
Now, if a bunch of money were set aside for, say, a neo-CCC for indebted/unemployed students... that'd be sweet. Basically do some basic infrastructure/community improvement for a certain amount of time to work off the loans. And get paid a reasonable wage! And fix up the country!
Even an English Lit major can do manual labor
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
a few big names in the economic sectors a while ago have said that this will be the next biggest financial meltdown. as students can't find jobs to cover the loans that it takes to get through college.
you spend 30K on an education to find a job that makes 25K if that.
as someone else said the bailouts should have never happened though. it leads to a sicker economy and something that businesses will expect later on if it would happen again.
student loan debt is one of the most crippling things in society. more so since education and college costs continue to go up higher and higher and entry level wages (if you can find them) are not meeting the cost of school.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Well, to be honest countries such as Germany that do have free tuition also have a mandatory 2 years service period for citizens. I know for males, not sure on females. But as I've stated before I think the forms of service should be greatly expanded, such as teaching in an inner city school for 3 years or some other form of aid work, being taxed at 3% of income for 20 years, or something outrageous like if you start a business all your loans turn into grants and even if the company sinks after 3-4 years of trying to make it float you can walk away debt free (granted you would also be bankrupt from the company if it went down).
I don't mind getting rid of student loans, what I want in return for that are services and creation of actual companies that will "do something" and employ people. The total sum of student loans are about $685 billion in a $15 trillion economy that in the coming decades relative to world GDP can reach upwards of $30 trillion over the next 50 years is not that bad.
I would argue also for some more people to work overseas in a foreign company for at least 4 years (one year per year of education). This is something that the Japanese and other rising powers did and do all the time, they send their children abroad and then many come back home with new business connections. We never explore that, we basically import all our brain power instead sending our kids abroad to learn from other people and bring back new innovations. It's stupid we never leech off of innovations in places like Singapore or the old world in general.
It screws up the whole progression of things, where a young person would buy up a family home is instead paying back for an overinflated price for education. Education is a continual process, not just always something that's done for four years and not all jobs require a college degree and would be better serviced with an apprenticeship program in high school.
With terminal degrees it's pathetic everything from an MBA to a JD which don't require that much headroom to actually use are stupidly priced now. I can understand some what for an MD. But when a Phd. in something like economics or multiple other science degrees aren't as expensive as the MBA or JD it makes me stop and wonder. I feel that the dollars from easy money have helped to jack up those degrees beyond their intrinsic value.
Frankly speaking, I've already got a terminal degree, but I've been wanting a JD since I was a kid as a form of accomplishment but the price has been something of a restriction. I could swing about 50-60k, but the average of 100-140k is not going to happen. Then combine that with having to save up for 2 children's degrees places a hamper on that.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I'm sure if you could use your student loans to make safe bets in the stock/treasury market and pocket the profits this would be a non issue.
Banks were given loans and told to lend to consumers, but only safe ones. Banks couldn't find any safe consumers who wanted money so they bought treasuries and stocks. This lifted the market (fake) and made them easy money to repay their bailouts.
All they really had to do instead of sloshing around several billion dollars would have been to modify the requirement for "mark to market" accounting.
No matter where you are, there is an Occupy nearby. No matter where you are, there is a community assembling that loves you, believes in your individual sovereignty, and yet still wants to extend a collective voice.
Undoing 80 years of corporate malfeasance and 30 years of war on education is not going to fit on a single-page, double-spaced, bullet-point list. Sorry.
The most important thing to remember is this: We were all supernovas once. Every atom in your body was once an exploded star, and the Occupy Together movement is an opportunity for you to help your atoms remember and actualize their potentiality. The movement is happening because of a need for economic justice and accountability. You can come for any reason you please.
Join us.
-Occupying Los Angeles since Oct. 1
This is what our occupancy looks like. Nothing but love and peace.
I’m standing on my Monopoly board
That means I’m on top of my game
And it don't stop 'til my hip don’t hop anymore
Update: LAPD off-duty officers have officially begun donating food, sunscreen, and supplies to the occupancy. How about a debate concerning what is so wrong with NYPD that they can only crack down?
http://occupyus.tumblr.com/post/11286744975/lapd-drops-off-supplies-to-occupyla
Join us.
Occupylosangeles.org
Occupytogether.org
I’m standing on my Monopoly board
That means I’m on top of my game
And it don't stop 'til my hip don’t hop anymore
Political compensation is way to high which is why we get so many people who want to be politicians for the pay and the cushy job instead of furthering our society. This is why everyone is so worried about election and why we can't pass things through congress.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1211410758001/anti-wall-street-protests-go-into-fourth-week/?playlist_id=86856
Now i dont want to get in to how terrible this reporting is and i frankly cant fathom how anyone can consider this news, and as i was about to click away in disgust i came across this....
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/07/do-occupy-wall-street-protests-represent-your-views-economy/
colour me shocked but to see a poll on fox news with hundreds of thousands of votes that clearly shows a majority of people DO think the system isnt set up to be fair for the working class and is in fact advantageous to corporations. Does anyone know a reason why a fox news poll would have this outcome?
Finally, a quick question regarding the idea of the 99% vs the 1% and how the occupy wall street protesters arent speaking for YOU. The idea behind the 99% is simply that the richest 1% in american got RICHER in the last decade. think about that for a moment. In a massive recession that made millions of people unemployed and struggle to put food on their families tables.... the rich got RICHER. how does that happen? Mystery45? any explanation on how the 99% are struggling more than ever and yet the wealthiest 1% became wealthier? it CANT be the system, it must be that they are SO much better than the other 99% that they accumulate wealth even in recession times while everyone else fails.
It also if you read the label at the bottom a non-scientific poll. meaning it really carries no weight and has probably tons of bias as people could possibly vote more than once.
yea and they also pay the most in taxes as well about 40%.
first off this 99% number is BS. i severly doubt that 99% of america is suffering some horrible fate and can't put food on the table and can't pay rent etc. so lets get that straight first off.
secondly the the unemployeement rate is 9% or so which mean that the other 91% of people are working. if you want to look at underemployeement and people that aren't looking it is 17% which means that 83% of the people are not under employeed. so again we can see that this 99% number is BS, but it does make a great slogan to uninformed and uneducated people.
as for how they got richer easy. they saved and invested instead of spending their butts off. pretty simple. if you want to get rich then you have to save and invest and continue to save and invest. that is the only way to get rich.
most people don't live like that. they spend spend spend. what they can't afford they throw on credit cards and the cycle continues. instead of paying it off they just make the minimum payment yet continue to charge stuff to it.
they don't save or invest their money.
as one report had it a guy quit his job so he could go to this occupy thing and complain about jobs. really? you quit your job so you can go complain about not having a job?
to compare this thing to anything other than stupidity would give it to much credit.
700 people + have been arrested so far for various crimes. some how i am not surprised that the president or the democrats would try to give credibility to these people when it is largely their policies that have put them out of work, and continue for the economy to struggle.
when you wage war on the successful and business people in the world they tend not to hire people.
people that are successful with money know how to make money both in good times and bad times. that is just a given. they know how to protect their investments and move their investments into safer places so not to take as big of a hit.
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Interesting article on fox news today. an opinion piece that i thought had some interesting relevant points.
one quote i found particularly interesting was
"In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined."
I am hoping someone can explain to me why those 400 people deserve to have more wealth then 150 million people combined in the same country or even same city as them, without resorting to "thats the system" because if that IS the system, then clearly it needs checks and balances.
I would love to see the source on this so that I could back up this claim when debating republicans.
Why do you care how much money someone else has? The economy is not a zero-sum game.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
More about income disparity. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. People like the Kock Brothers spending millions upon millions of dollars getting people elected who pass legislation that makes them billions while the rest of us get damaged environment and layoffs.
Bank of America has gigantic executive bonuses and just layed off 30,000 people.
I think most of us and the OWS crowd don't want to live in a de facto oligarchy
"Income disparity" means "that guy's richer than me". Or at least, "that guy's making more money than me".
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I guess I'm not explaining myself very well,
It isn't that there are people richer than others.
Its about the wealthy doing stuff to keep the poor down.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
If people having more money than other is largely a result of the things that you mentioned, among others, then why can't we criticize it?
because you are criticizing the wrong thing. You're criticizing the upset stomach when what you should be criticizing is the flu virus that is giving you the upset stomach.
probably because they worked and or save for it? i mean it just didn't come out of thin air.
who are you to say they don't deserve what they worked for?
umm not really. most people make money with in the bounds of the law. i would say that there is maybe 5% of those that don't.
this would imply some sort of theft or other illegal activity. while there is some of that most in general are upstanding citizens that obey the law.
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Fair point. Problem of Knowledge I suppose.
I'm really trying to hammer on the last line, that they are using their wealth to keep others down. Like a couple other posters commented on.
You don't get to owning 5% of the country through proper saving techniques. Bill Gates got their through, along with Steve Jobs, creating computing technology as we know it. Buffet does stocks or w/e. The Koch Brothers? Destroying the environment for profit. Then you have the wal mart triplets, George Soros and some Casino guy rounding out the top 10 on the Forbe's list
Did you know that 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
I hear using your wealth and influence to shift the tax burden away from yourself is a dick move.
I hear using your wealth and influence to deregulate your industry is a dick move.
I hear breaking the world financial system and causing the second biggest recession in American history is a dick move
Well to be honest you should avoid fox news. they are biased as hell. CNN is what I typically watch. They tend to lean a bit conservative, but its not those crazy tea-party ****ers.
We do have a poor distribution of wealth in our country. Between that people having off-shore bank accounts and outsourcing of jobs to 3rd world counties our system is failing. Oh and the broken tax code...forgot that one.
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