It's actually a pretty standard field of candidates, just with more interesting backstories.
You've got the more "liberal" Democratic contenders (Obama, Edwards), more moderate Democratic candidates (Clinton, Vilsack), and several candidates trying to be the insurgent (Vilsack, Clark, Dodd, Biden). And Dennis Kucinich, but he gets his own category.
Yep, I nearly **** my pants in glee at the Obama announcement. He'll be getting my vote for the primary... unless the **** really hits the fan. I doubt he'll get the nod but it'll be fun to see him try.
While I understand the excitement, could we try to keep the cursing to a minimum? - Stax
Yeah... In retrospect, this might be Obama's time to run. He's not fighting incumbancy, and he can only ride his rock star appeal for so long. In addition, his presumed weakness- that of too little experience- might be good in a climate where everyone seems rightly pissed off at the current establishment. And, let's face it, he can't stay as young and good-looking forever!
That said, I still have my doubts about Obama. While I can agree with him on most issues, and while I think he is a very charismatic and appealing guy, I just think he might be too green around the gills to be a strong contender. Of course, I'm sure people said the same about JFK, so I reserve the right to be wrong. And I would certainly have no objection to his nabbing of the nomination, and I would be happy to place my first vote in a presidential election on him. Although I doubt his platform can appeal to me more than the progressive train that is John Edwards... Prove me wrong, Obama!
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Obama, win? I have my doubts. He is black and the US has traditionally been extremely rascist against non-caucasian politicians. If he wins, he will be the first non-caucasian president. Asides from that, I almost thought he was from the Middle East and there is absolutely no way I would ever vote for anyone of that descent. Maybe other people will mistaken him as Muslim too. I don't know. Obama is a long shot.
Obama, win? I have my doubts. He is black and the US has traditionally been extremely rascist against non-caucasian politicians. If he wins, he will be the first non-caucasian president. Asides from that, I almost thought he was from the Middle East and there is absolutely no way I would ever vote for anyone of that descent. Maybe other people will mistaken him as Muslim too. I don't know. Obama is a long shot.
well, he is different and right now, the country wants different. Badly. And why wouldn't you vote for someone from the Middle East? Surely it's not Islam; not everyone from the Middle East is Islamic (although the majority are). And even if that was their religion, I still don't see the problem. Don't wanna sound aggresive, just curious.
Yeah... In retrospect, this might be Obama's time to run. He's not fighting incumbancy, and he can only ride his rock star appeal for so long. In addition, his presumed weakness- that of too little experience- might be good in a climate where everyone seems rightly pissed off at the current establishment. And, let's face it, he can't stay as young and good-looking forever!
That said, I still have my doubts about Obama. While I can agree with him on most issues, and while I think he is a very charismatic and appealing guy, I just think he might be too green around the gills to be a strong contender. Of course, I'm sure people said the same about JFK, so I reserve the right to be wrong. And I would certainly have no objection to his nabbing of the nomination, and I would be happy to place my first vote in a presidential election on him. Although I doubt his platform can appeal to me more than the progressive train that is John Edwards... Prove me wrong, Obama!
Not only JFK, but also Honest Abe. If memory serves me right, I recall that Mr. Abe was only a senator for one term as well. He was candid enough to know he was not a genius in every field and hired people he knew were smarter than him. Hopefully Obama would be smart enough as well.
Honestly, this is the most bittersweet feeling I've ever had. I'm thrilled Obama is running, but, as some of you may recall from the old voting age thread, by '08 election time, I'll be 17 years and 351 day old... man do I hate my birthday!
edit:
I almost thought he was from the Middle East and there is absolutely no way I would ever vote for anyone of that descent.
That is possibly the most racist thing I've heard in months, years maybe. Is the entire American public this outrageously racist and ignorant? If so, I've just lost a lot of hope in the American people.
i think i need to elaborate on the middle eastern comment. a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack. in addition, if he ever does turn on the US, who would control the army?
the fact that Muslims hate us more than communists makes it quite dangerous to have a president of such ethical background. i don't have anything against a middle eastern living in the US, i just fear for my life if one ever became president. this fear will drive me from ever voting for a muslim until they finally make peace with the west and themselves (which i think will be never). if a muslim ran for president, i would go to the polls just to vote against him. that is how afraid the 9/11 terrorists have made me and the american public.
i think i need to elaborate on the middle eastern comment. a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack. in addition, if he ever does turn on the US, who would control the army?
the fact that Muslims hate us more than communists makes it quite dangerous to have a president of such ethical background. i don't have anything against a middle eastern living in the US, i just fear for my life if one ever became president. this fear will drive me from ever voting for a muslim until they finally make peace with the west and themselves (which i think will be never). if a muslim ran for president, i would go to the polls just to vote against him. that is how afraid the 9/11 terrorists have made me and the american public.
The "american public" does not share your mind. Though, it's sad to see the terroists are winning with some people. It's not enough that they're making you afraid, but bigoted and racist too. So sad.
Oh well, your welcome to fear for your life. Since we don't live in a dictatorship, I could give a damn what ethnicity the president is.
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The "american public" does not share your mind. Though, it's sad to see the terroists are winning with some people. It's not enough that they're making you afraid, but bigoted and racist too. So sad.
Oh well, your welcome to fear for your life. Since we don't live in a dictatorship, I could give a damn what ethnicity the president is.
Well, I feel the need to defend sentiment. In fact, I...
Nah; that's appalling.
Let's get this straight, though. If a white guy who practiced Islam (and was proud of the fact) ran, would you vote for him?
i think i need to elaborate on the middle eastern comment. a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack.
This argument depends on the premise, "Feeling loyalty to any Middle Eastern country is tantamount to supporting terrorism."
i don't have anything against a middle eastern living in the US, i just fear for my life if one ever became president.
This is an irrational, baseless, and stupid fear. I'm not saying you yourself are stupid. I'm talking about this fear you have. Either you're a very talented forum troll or you're completely bonkers.
i think i need to elaborate on the middle eastern comment. a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack. in addition, if he ever does turn on the US, who would control the army?
the fact that Muslims hate us more than communists makes it quite dangerous to have a president of such ethical background. i don't have anything against a middle eastern living in the US, i just fear for my life if one ever became president. this fear will drive me from ever voting for a muslim until they finally make peace with the west and themselves (which i think will be never). if a muslim ran for president, i would go to the polls just to vote against him. that is how afraid the 9/11 terrorists have made me and the american public.
OK, you are aware that for a person to be president, they must be born in the United States, correct? That means that, at worst, you are dealing with a second generation American, and in all likelihood, that person has grandparents or longer lineage in the country.
That would mean that a child's parents would have to move into the country, have a child, raise that child to be a fundamentalist muslim extremist in the United States. Than the child would have to remain completely detached from the United States citizens around him, grow up loving an ideal worlds apart from any around him and that he will likely never see, and learn to support murder as well.
Then, that child would have to grow up and gain the trust of the nation, knowing full well that he had every intention of eventually, possibly, killing them. He would likely need to run in a state as a Senator or Governor to get his name into the political field. Finally, assuming he fooled everyone into voting for him, he would than have to find a cabinet with similar intentions, and likely make friends in Congress to get away with his plan.
Do you realize how nonsensical that is? I'm not trying to insult you, not at all. I'm trying to help remove you from this fear you apparently have, so that you realize that you don't need to be afraid of a man of middle east descent who is running for public office.
Anywho, I sincerely hope that noone makes that mistake, because he doesn't look like he's from the Middle East, and even if he did, I think that that would be a petty and inane way to select a president.
a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack....the fact that Muslims hate us more than communists makes it quite dangerous to have a president of such ethical background....this fear will drive me from ever voting for a muslim until they finally make peace with the west and themselves.
Are you comparing every Muslim on the planet to the extreme minority (putting it lightly) of extremist Muslims who hate America? Are you really saying that every Middle Eastern Country harbors/supports terrorist organizations?
You actually think that all Muslims hate America, don't you? My God. That's just.... I can't even use five smilies to express what I'm feeling right now, so I'll have to use six.
I should've known that this would degenerate into anti-Islamic bigotry, and coming from someone who's none too fond of a majority of Muslims that's saying a lot. American Muslims are more sane than their Middle Eastern counterparts, and even if they were sympathetic to these tyrannical governments they'd be no worse than the current policy of appeasing Saudi Arabia (unless they all-out supported Iran's right to "peaceful nuclear purposes," but that's not happening with any sort of candidate). Congressman Ellison (D-MN) is no enemy of this country, and he's a Muslim. I might have some fears that he'll be anti-Israel because in all honesty that's what I believe a majority of followers of that religion stand for, but he's not out to destroy his country like that CNN whackjob thought when he first interviewed him.
Anyway... yes, the least sane of conservatives will point out Obama's middle and last names as "proof" that he's not a true American (some already are), but those people are nuts and aren't worth listening to.
I've already said that out of the three big Republican candidates- Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney- the worst one (Romney) will probably win out. Never mind that he's a Mormon and governed the most liberal state in the Union; the fact is that he's doing a damn good job in trying to reshape his image. He's already impressed some evangelicals, and that's always scary. McCain may be the favorite for now, but his support for the troop surge might be shooting himself in the foot. Escalating a war that's not popular is never a good idea. Add the fact that the religious right is cautious about him and that's a good chance that he just might whiff. Giuliani will never fly in Middle America since he's a social liberal and has a personal life filled with scandal. I'm sure that he'll make the vice presidential slot, though, making Romney that much more appealing to swing voters.
ok, we've gone on long enough with sentimentGX4'sfears. we're waaaaaaaay out of topic. (Although Yodafan, that sounds like something out of star wars)
In related news, "Star Wars" is my favorite movie. But really, all that I wanted to do was show Sentiment's fears were unfounded, because the result he fears would take a simply silly and overwrought plan.
But yes, I agree. This is a discussion about the 2008 election, not the beliefs of a board member, however misguided we may find them.
So anyway...the democrats have all their men and women lined up to enter the white house. What about the republicans? Any of them have a chance?
From the looks of current polls, Rudy and McCain (grr...) both beat out any and all democratic candidates should they recieve the party nomination. Now obviously, we (Democrats) shouldn't just call the election because early polls indicate that both Republican frontrunners win, but that is an indicator. That said, I think that McCain's approval and moderate appearance will be tarnished somewhat when the knowledge becomes more public that he feels we need to increase troop levels in Iraq. At least, I hope so, because following the torture "compromise," I lost all respect I may have had for that greedy man. And while I doubt that I would vote for Rudy, I would certainly not feel too sore if he were President.
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also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
Quote from Penumbra Leprechaun »
Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
wait, what torture compromise? I've never heard that before. Are you saying McCain in some twisted way supported torture? I've always respected him for his foresight to at least play nicely with the other politicans. This could change alot of things
wait, what torture compromise? I've never heard that before. Are you saying McCain in some twisted way supported torture? I've always respected him for his foresight to at least play nicely with the other politicans. This could change alot of things
McCain, whose six years of captivity and torture in Vietnam made him a national celebrity, negotiated (in September 2006) a compromise in the Senate for the Military Commissions Act of 2006, suspending habeas corpus provisions for anyone deemed by the Executive Branch an "unlawful combatant" and barring them from challenging their detentions in court. (McCain himself was tortured in Vietnam, signing a false confession in 1968.) Coming on the heels of a Supreme Court decision adverse to the White House, McCain's compromise gave a retroactive, nine-year immunity to U.S. officials who authorized, ordered, or committed acts of torture and abuse, and permitted the use of statements obtained through torture to be used in military tribunals so long as the abuse took place by December 30, 2005. McCain's compromise permitted the President to establish permissible interrogation techniques and to "interpret the meaning and application" of international Geneva Convention standards, so long as the coercion fell short of "serious" bodily or psychological injury. Widely dubbed McCain's "torture compromise", the bill was signed into law by George W. Bush on October 17, 2006, shortly before the 2006 midterm elections.
In short, he sold out some of his most fundamental beliefs on human rights by allowing almost all of the legislation, only working to oust a few torture techniques, so that he could win a few more votes in the Republican primaries. After I realized how soulless and greedy this man was becoming, I looked back and realized just how non-moderate he truly was. Yes, he can "play nice" with democrats. But a moderate, that does not make. In truth, he is just as conservative as the most conservative of Republicans on a number of issues, a total hawk, and completely dishonest. I have actually become convinced that McCain keeps up his charade by picking names of Democratic leaders out of a hat, than working with those leaders to create some legislation with no fangs that makes him look moderate. Looking at you, McCain-Feingold, 2002!
Now, THAT's a guy I could get behind. Feingold. Too bad he's not running, because he rocks my world...
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Quote from releasethedogs »
also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
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Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Sorry, I'm coming to this thread wayyy late and don't have time to read it all. But, what about Barack Obama? (Hope I spelled that right) I as a staunch conservative find this guy very scary simply because I like him and if someone who really drinks the conservative Kool-Aid(except on certain social issues ) like me likes him, we might be in trouble.
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McCain and Guliani would be a fantastic ticket - then again, i would never vote for the dems. OTOH, i really hope that the dems choose between clinton and obama, beacuse lets face it - a woman and/or a black are at HUGE odds to winning the race.
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a president of middle eastern descent is a complete threat to national security. if he had any loyalty to his home country, he could easily set the country up for a full fledged terrorist attack. in addition, if he ever does turn on the US, who would control the army?
If I see trolling like this again, you're done. Period. I'm fed up with this sentiment, you know perfectly well what you're saying is crap.
The Middle East is not pure Islam, and Islam is nowhere near approaching the hemisphere of a planet whose moon might possibly contain only terrorists. The suggestion that a Middle Eastern president would turn us over to terrorists is as rediculous as the old chestnut that the "Jews run the media" or someone saying Bush would give the nation to the Papacy because he was Christian.
As for new comments of my own
Basically I think:
Clark: Perfect
Edwards: Perfect financial vice presidential candidate, as he brings experience and trust on key economic issues facing the nation, he's young and vibrant, and makes for the perfect heir apparent.
Obama: Not enough of a legislative agena, but hugely electable.
Clinton: Immense policy experience, little charisma (Hillary and Obama are essentially the polar opposites of political theory, makes for an interesting primary battle)
McCain: Voted to legalize torture and, more importantly, no matter what the rest of the Military Commissions Act did it declared that no court could hear a detainees case that his human rights had been violated. Rather defeats the points of setting any other standards for human rights as if you can't tell people when they're violated so what?
Giuliani: Electable in the general and popular in expensive traditionally Democratic states with a tough row to hoe in the primaries. Perfect veep material.
Romney: I found this tidbit from Wikipedia very interesting. The highest number polled who said they wouldn't be willing to vote for a female candidate was 17%. For a black candidate, 3%. For a Mormon candidate, 25%.
Huckabee and Brownback: Scare the living.. Well, suffice it to say either as POTUS or VPOTUS is scary.
Then the Tancredo/Hunter field: *shrug*
Romney: I found this tidbit from Wikipedia very interesting. The highest number polled who said they wouldn't be willing to vote for a female candidate was 17%. For a black candidate, 3%. For a Mormon candidate, 25%.
I didn't think anybody cared about Mormons, except inasfar as they're sometimes mildly annoying when missionarying. Anti-Mormon bigotry: who knew?
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You've got the more "liberal" Democratic contenders (Obama, Edwards), more moderate Democratic candidates (Clinton, Vilsack), and several candidates trying to be the insurgent (Vilsack, Clark, Dodd, Biden). And Dennis Kucinich, but he gets his own category.
While I understand the excitement, could we try to keep the cursing to a minimum? - Stax
That said, I still have my doubts about Obama. While I can agree with him on most issues, and while I think he is a very charismatic and appealing guy, I just think he might be too green around the gills to be a strong contender. Of course, I'm sure people said the same about JFK, so I reserve the right to be wrong. And I would certainly have no objection to his nabbing of the nomination, and I would be happy to place my first vote in a presidential election on him. Although I doubt his platform can appeal to me more than the progressive train that is John Edwards... Prove me wrong, Obama!
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Trade Thread
well, he is different and right now, the country wants different. Badly. And why wouldn't you vote for someone from the Middle East? Surely it's not Islam; not everyone from the Middle East is Islamic (although the majority are). And even if that was their religion, I still don't see the problem. Don't wanna sound aggresive, just curious.
And yes; we need a poll right now.
Honestly, this is the most bittersweet feeling I've ever had. I'm thrilled Obama is running, but, as some of you may recall from the old voting age thread, by '08 election time, I'll be 17 years and 351 day old... man do I hate my birthday!
edit:
That is possibly the most racist thing I've heard in months, years maybe. Is the entire American public this outrageously racist and ignorant? If so, I've just lost a lot of hope in the American people.
Thanks to the [Æther] shop for the sig!
Oh my.
@dk307: yyyeah
the fact that Muslims hate us more than communists makes it quite dangerous to have a president of such ethical background. i don't have anything against a middle eastern living in the US, i just fear for my life if one ever became president. this fear will drive me from ever voting for a muslim until they finally make peace with the west and themselves (which i think will be never). if a muslim ran for president, i would go to the polls just to vote against him. that is how afraid the 9/11 terrorists have made me and the american public.
The "american public" does not share your mind. Though, it's sad to see the terroists are winning with some people. It's not enough that they're making you afraid, but bigoted and racist too. So sad.
Oh well, your welcome to fear for your life. Since we don't live in a dictatorship, I could give a damn what ethnicity the president is.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Well, I feel the need to defend sentiment. In fact, I...
Nah; that's appalling.
Let's get this straight, though. If a white guy who practiced Islam (and was proud of the fact) ran, would you vote for him?
What if Obama was a Mormon?
This argument depends on the premise, "Feeling loyalty to any Middle Eastern country is tantamount to supporting terrorism."
Man alive. Think about what would happen in that situation and the answer will come to you quickly. As it stands, you're not thinking about it.
This is an irrational, baseless, and stupid fear. I'm not saying you yourself are stupid. I'm talking about this fear you have. Either you're a very talented forum troll or you're completely bonkers.
OK, you are aware that for a person to be president, they must be born in the United States, correct? That means that, at worst, you are dealing with a second generation American, and in all likelihood, that person has grandparents or longer lineage in the country.
That would mean that a child's parents would have to move into the country, have a child, raise that child to be a fundamentalist muslim extremist in the United States. Than the child would have to remain completely detached from the United States citizens around him, grow up loving an ideal worlds apart from any around him and that he will likely never see, and learn to support murder as well.
Then, that child would have to grow up and gain the trust of the nation, knowing full well that he had every intention of eventually, possibly, killing them. He would likely need to run in a state as a Senator or Governor to get his name into the political field. Finally, assuming he fooled everyone into voting for him, he would than have to find a cabinet with similar intentions, and likely make friends in Congress to get away with his plan.
Do you realize how nonsensical that is? I'm not trying to insult you, not at all. I'm trying to help remove you from this fear you apparently have, so that you realize that you don't need to be afraid of a man of middle east descent who is running for public office.
Anywho, I sincerely hope that noone makes that mistake, because he doesn't look like he's from the Middle East, and even if he did, I think that that would be a petty and inane way to select a president.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
You actually think that all Muslims hate America, don't you? My God. That's just.... I can't even use five smilies to express what I'm feeling right now, so I'll have to use six.
Thanks to the [Æther] shop for the sig!
Anyway... yes, the least sane of conservatives will point out Obama's middle and last names as "proof" that he's not a true American (some already are), but those people are nuts and aren't worth listening to.
So anyway...the democrats have all their men and women lined up to enter the white house. What about the republicans? Any of them have a chance?
In related news, "Star Wars" is my favorite movie. But really, all that I wanted to do was show Sentiment's fears were unfounded, because the result he fears would take a simply silly and overwrought plan.
But yes, I agree. This is a discussion about the 2008 election, not the beliefs of a board member, however misguided we may find them.
From the looks of current polls, Rudy and McCain (grr...) both beat out any and all democratic candidates should they recieve the party nomination. Now obviously, we (Democrats) shouldn't just call the election because early polls indicate that both Republican frontrunners win, but that is an indicator. That said, I think that McCain's approval and moderate appearance will be tarnished somewhat when the knowledge becomes more public that he feels we need to increase troop levels in Iraq. At least, I hope so, because following the torture "compromise," I lost all respect I may have had for that greedy man. And while I doubt that I would vote for Rudy, I would certainly not feel too sore if he were President.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
http://www.quickoverview.com/election2008/john-mccain-overview.html
Mainly, this part...
In short, he sold out some of his most fundamental beliefs on human rights by allowing almost all of the legislation, only working to oust a few torture techniques, so that he could win a few more votes in the Republican primaries. After I realized how soulless and greedy this man was becoming, I looked back and realized just how non-moderate he truly was. Yes, he can "play nice" with democrats. But a moderate, that does not make. In truth, he is just as conservative as the most conservative of Republicans on a number of issues, a total hawk, and completely dishonest. I have actually become convinced that McCain keeps up his charade by picking names of Democratic leaders out of a hat, than working with those leaders to create some legislation with no fangs that makes him look moderate. Looking at you, McCain-Feingold, 2002!
Now, THAT's a guy I could get behind. Feingold. Too bad he's not running, because he rocks my world...
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your signature.
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If he had any loyalty to his home country, he'd be patriotic, since a President of the US must be born here and have like 25 years of citizenship....
Trade Thread
If I see trolling like this again, you're done. Period. I'm fed up with this sentiment, you know perfectly well what you're saying is crap.
The Middle East is not pure Islam, and Islam is nowhere near approaching the hemisphere of a planet whose moon might possibly contain only terrorists. The suggestion that a Middle Eastern president would turn us over to terrorists is as rediculous as the old chestnut that the "Jews run the media" or someone saying Bush would give the nation to the Papacy because he was Christian.
As for new comments of my own
Basically I think:
Clark: Perfect
Edwards: Perfect financial vice presidential candidate, as he brings experience and trust on key economic issues facing the nation, he's young and vibrant, and makes for the perfect heir apparent.
Obama: Not enough of a legislative agena, but hugely electable.
Clinton: Immense policy experience, little charisma (Hillary and Obama are essentially the polar opposites of political theory, makes for an interesting primary battle)
McCain: Voted to legalize torture and, more importantly, no matter what the rest of the Military Commissions Act did it declared that no court could hear a detainees case that his human rights had been violated. Rather defeats the points of setting any other standards for human rights as if you can't tell people when they're violated so what?
Giuliani: Electable in the general and popular in expensive traditionally Democratic states with a tough row to hoe in the primaries. Perfect veep material.
Romney: I found this tidbit from Wikipedia very interesting. The highest number polled who said they wouldn't be willing to vote for a female candidate was 17%. For a black candidate, 3%. For a Mormon candidate, 25%.
Huckabee and Brownback: Scare the living.. Well, suffice it to say either as POTUS or VPOTUS is scary.
Then the Tancredo/Hunter field: *shrug*
I didn't think anybody cared about Mormons, except inasfar as they're sometimes mildly annoying when missionarying. Anti-Mormon bigotry: who knew?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.