I kind of dont like this, but on the other hand, no personal/emotional/private information is being collected, nor do the people inside even know about it unless the spying was specifically leaked.
I would not care if someone spyed on people fairly randomly for heat/radiation checks from a distance without ever entering the building.
ON the other hand, having now known about it, if I was one of the mosque's attendants, I would feel very irritated and disrespected, not just because of being spyed on in a holy place, but for being singled out because it was a Muslim place of prayer.
Click here to visit my userpage at Wikipedia, where I am currently an administrator.:cool2:
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
I think it's discrimination, plan and simple. Next thing we know, Muslims will be sent off to internment camps. And of course, the administration had to break the law again by not asking for a warrant. When the **** hits the fan, the administration will keep on going gung-ho with their policies. Why don't these people learn from their mistakes and take a more moderate path? Does the administration think it has a mandate to do whatever it god damn pleases because there's no term after this one?
Indeed, the slippery slope of a year ago is only getting steeper. It seems that increasingly being Muslim is a reason to lose some of your privacy/legal rights.
Now it is mainly just annoying, although the Guantanamo issue is worse then "annoying". I hope it won't get worse.
I do agree with what David Brooks of the Newshour said concerning the contraversy in the US of searching without warrants:
"If another 9/11 happens, you know that all of this will just go right out the window"
Unfortunetely, he is right, as knee-jerk reactions will dominate the polls.
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Click here to visit my userpage at Wikipedia, where I am currently an administrator.:cool2:
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
Hmm, I don't know. Get ready for this folks - I don't see too much to object to here. Yes, I said that, you're not dreaming.
In this case it seems like there couldn't really be any kind of 4th amendment violation or even privacy violation. There doesn't seem to be any search here, nor any seziure, and it looks like they conducted these ops from public grounds. So, no, I see no problem.
And the fact that Muslim organizations were targetted more often is, well, nothing to object to. Muslim extremists are the brand of terrorists that our politicians are at war with, after all. How in the world is this suprising or offensive?
We've gone so completely insane with this PC garbage that there are certain elements in the left who will agree with the State on anything, provided it is equally applied. Seriously, that's their primary objection.
For example, here in NY, the liberals just LOVED the idea of bag searches before you got on the subway. Big Bro to the rescue! But then they got worried. After all, what if... Muslims got searched, get this, more than non-Muslims? Oh, the humanity!
Point being, if you are going to object to anything, for example, unreasonable searches and seziures like the NYC subway checks (as I do!) then you need to start being a little consistent. Object to it across the board.
Hmm, I don't know. Get ready for this folks - I don't see too much to object to here. Yes, I said that, you're not dreaming.
In this case it seems like there couldn't really be any kind of 4th amendment violation or even privacy violation. There doesn't seem to be any search here, nor any seziure, and it looks like they conducted these ops from public grounds. So, no, I see no problem.
And the fact that Muslim organizations were targetted more often is, well, nothing to object to. Muslim extremists are the brand of terrorists that our politicians are at war with, after all. How in the world is this suprising or offensive?
We've gone so completely insane with this PC garbage that there are certain elements in the left who will agree with the State on anything, provided it is equally applied. Seriously, that's their primary objection.
For example, here in NY, the liberals just LOVED the idea of bag searches before you got on the subway. Big Bro to the rescue! But then they got worried. After all, what if... Muslims got searched, get this, more than non-Muslims? Oh, the humanity!
Point being, if you are going to object to anything, for example, unreasonable searches and seziures like the NYC subway checks (as I do!) then you need to start being a little consistent. Object to it across the board.
So, if the gov't placed infrared camera's on public space to watch everything that happens in your home you'd be competely okay with that?
And if they specificly did it because you play a satanic cardgame like magic?
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
Don't they currently have a suspect in custody who was trying to (allegedly) set off a dirty bomb (i.e., a bomb which is set to release radiactive material) in NYC?
This one is REALLY reaching.
Again, any excuse to go after the Bush administration.
At its peak, three vehicles in Washington monitored 120 sites a day.
Wow, those must have been some very specific leads.
Quote from Kashmyr »
Don't they currently have a suspect in custody who was trying to (allegedly) set off a dirty bomb (i.e., a bomb which is set to release radiactive material) in NYC?
How are you sure that the two are related?
Quote from Kashmyr »
Again, any excuse to go after the Bush administration.
Not sure who that was addressed to.
I am sure that if you just search everywhere, that yes, you will find something important.
Quote from BBC »
Federal officials cited by US News and World Report said that monitoring on public property, such as driveways and parking lots, was legal and that warrants were not needed for the kind of radiation sampling it conducted.
As I said, for now, it is just annoying for Muslims, and I hope this is as close as they will be scrutinized.
I suppose, that given the threat of "dirty bombs", scanning Mosques is not so bad when you have actual leads, just like any other structure. But these scans seem a lot more arbitrary than that.
Click here to visit my userpage at Wikipedia, where I am currently an administrator.:cool2:
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
So, if the gov't placed infrared camera's on public space to watch everything that happens in your home you'd be competely okay with that?
No, I wouldn't. That's a hell of alot difference. I don't see what right to privacy is being violated by a freakin radiation test. It's like if they tested air pollution near your house, would they be violating your privacy?
And if they specificly did it because you play a satanic cardgame like magic?
That's a poor analogy. Playing mtg has not been linked to Jihad.
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
It's absolutely discrimination, but again it's one of those things I don't really see anything worth complaining about (other than the line of thought that led to such discrimination in the first place). There is no personal, private use for radioactive material, so no law-abiding private citizen or organization really has any legal radioactive activities to hide. I think it's very wrong that we're only scanning mosques, but *shrug*
Of course it is. It's also the kind that makes sense. In case you hadn't noticed, the enemies in our current conflict are Moslems. Paying more attention to our enemies simply makes good sense.
Besides, what rights are being violated? No one has the right to not have their home or place of worship tested for radiation in a completely non-intrusive manner.
And of course, the administration had to break the law again by not asking for a warrant.
Exactly why do they need a warrant to monitor the radiation level of a building from a distance?
Why don't these people learn from their mistakes and take a more moderate path?
Of course it is. It's also the kind that makes sense. In case you hadn't noticed, the enemies in our current conflict are Moslems. Paying more attention to our enemies simply makes good sense.
You don't get to arbitrarily define a conflict as the only thing we have to worry about. If you think the only group threatening the US is Muslims, you're crazy.
Besides, what rights are being violated? No one has the right to not have their home or place of worship tested for radiation in a completely non-intrusive manner.
Radiation levels are, technically, a characteristic of your life and building behind closed doors. Observation of it, even if from a distance, should require the same judicial review as wiretapping (to pick something randomly, ) since you are collecting evidence against someone.
Seems rather silly to me. Why would anyone, who's capable of collecting radioactive material, hide it inside a mosque ?
Why is much of the insurgency fighting from mosques frequently in Iraq?
Because people get worked up when they think they are being persecuted based on religion (especially in Iraq, but also in the US) - in the case of Iraq, they are fighting from them because they know that the US couldn't really fire on the mosque, or fear having that clip shown over and over and over and over again (and there are MANY examples of this).
Frankly, if I was a terrorist, that's EXACTLY where I would hide things - and at the first sign that anyone even came close to a warrant, I would be screaming my head off claiming discrimination. We have a guy locally in Ohio who preached hate against the United States on one hand LOUDLY, and when the FBI investigated him because they were worried about a potential threat, and he did exactly what I am saying.
It makes too much sense, and frankly, in this age where you have a small minority screaming at the top of their lungs at everything that Bush does, it would be to terrorists advantage to create an atmosphere where the Federal Government couldn't even investigate at all without creating a stir among those people.
Frankly, if I was a terrorist, that's EXACTLY where I would hide things - and at the first sign that anyone even came close to a warrant, I would be screaming my head off claiming discrimination. We have a guy locally in Ohio who preached hate against the United States on one hand LOUDLY, and when the FBI investigated him because they were worried about a potential threat, and he did exactly what I am saying.
It makes too much sense, and frankly, in this age where you have a small minority screaming at the top of their lungs at everything that Bush does, it would be to terrorists advantage to create an atmosphere where the Federal Government couldn't even investigate at all without creating a stir among those people.
No, actually it makes no sense due to the same tactics we've seen since Vietnam, where women would pretend to be mothers but actually carry a bundle of blankets around a bomb into US positions. If you appear to be the enemy, more focus will be put on you. If there are any terrorists still in the US they are driving Ford Expeditions and have big "God Bless America" or "Support our Troops" stickers right on the back.
Frankly, if I was a terrorist, that's EXACTLY where I would hide things - and at the first sign that anyone even came close to a warrant, I would be screaming my head off claiming discrimination.
If you were a terrorist, you would hide your weapons where you know that the FBI will search first ?
Under meters of water or close to other sources of radiation, that's where you want to hide your nuclear material.
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These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
If you were a terrorist, you would hide your weapons where you know that the FBI will search first ?
Under meters of water or close to other sources of radiation, that's where you want to hide your nuclear material.
Or, as shown in 9/11, use an unexpected tactic. But yes, the only way to fight a superpower that is looking for you is guerilla tactics of one degree or another, as you cannot win a straight fight.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4557224.stm
I kind of dont like this, but on the other hand, no personal/emotional/private information is being collected, nor do the people inside even know about it unless the spying was specifically leaked.
I would not care if someone spyed on people fairly randomly for heat/radiation checks from a distance without ever entering the building.
ON the other hand, having now known about it, if I was one of the mosque's attendants, I would feel very irritated and disrespected, not just because of being spyed on in a holy place, but for being singled out because it was a Muslim place of prayer.
What does everyone else think?
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
Now it is mainly just annoying, although the Guantanamo issue is worse then "annoying". I hope it won't get worse.
I do agree with what David Brooks of the Newshour said concerning the contraversy in the US of searching without warrants:
"If another 9/11 happens, you know that all of this will just go right out the window"
Unfortunetely, he is right, as knee-jerk reactions will dominate the polls.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
In this case it seems like there couldn't really be any kind of 4th amendment violation or even privacy violation. There doesn't seem to be any search here, nor any seziure, and it looks like they conducted these ops from public grounds. So, no, I see no problem.
And the fact that Muslim organizations were targetted more often is, well, nothing to object to. Muslim extremists are the brand of terrorists that our politicians are at war with, after all. How in the world is this suprising or offensive?
We've gone so completely insane with this PC garbage that there are certain elements in the left who will agree with the State on anything, provided it is equally applied. Seriously, that's their primary objection.
For example, here in NY, the liberals just LOVED the idea of bag searches before you got on the subway. Big Bro to the rescue! But then they got worried. After all, what if... Muslims got searched, get this, more than non-Muslims? Oh, the humanity!
Point being, if you are going to object to anything, for example, unreasonable searches and seziures like the NYC subway checks (as I do!) then you need to start being a little consistent. Object to it across the board.
So, if the gov't placed infrared camera's on public space to watch everything that happens in your home you'd be competely okay with that?
And if they specificly did it because you play a satanic cardgame like magic?
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
Don't they currently have a suspect in custody who was trying to (allegedly) set off a dirty bomb (i.e., a bomb which is set to release radiactive material) in NYC?
This one is REALLY reaching.
Again, any excuse to go after the Bush administration.
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
Wow, those must have been some very specific leads.
How are you sure that the two are related?
Not sure who that was addressed to.
I am sure that if you just search everywhere, that yes, you will find something important.
As I said, for now, it is just annoying for Muslims, and I hope this is as close as they will be scrutinized.
I suppose, that given the threat of "dirty bombs", scanning Mosques is not so bad when you have actual leads, just like any other structure. But these scans seem a lot more arbitrary than that.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
No, I wouldn't. That's a hell of alot difference. I don't see what right to privacy is being violated by a freakin radiation test. It's like if they tested air pollution near your house, would they be violating your privacy?
That's a poor analogy. Playing mtg has not been linked to Jihad.
O rly?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I knew that was coming, but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase my response. Oh well.
Also, Richard Garfield made a Game named Jihad; But it was renamed The Eternal Struggle. Both mean the same though.
But anyways, a general radiation sweep seems better somehow.
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
Of course it is. It's also the kind that makes sense. In case you hadn't noticed, the enemies in our current conflict are Moslems. Paying more attention to our enemies simply makes good sense.
Besides, what rights are being violated? No one has the right to not have their home or place of worship tested for radiation in a completely non-intrusive manner.
Exactly why do they need a warrant to monitor the radiation level of a building from a distance?
Because innocent Americans will die. Again.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
You don't get to arbitrarily define a conflict as the only thing we have to worry about. If you think the only group threatening the US is Muslims, you're crazy.
Radiation levels are, technically, a characteristic of your life and building behind closed doors. Observation of it, even if from a distance, should require the same judicial review as wiretapping (to pick something randomly, ) since you are collecting evidence against someone.
I'm not a genius or a trained terrorist, but I can think of much better places to hide radioactive material...
The FBI better comes up with results from their scan, otherwise it is just further stigmatization of an already difficult group of Americans.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
Why is much of the insurgency fighting from mosques frequently in Iraq?
Because people get worked up when they think they are being persecuted based on religion (especially in Iraq, but also in the US) - in the case of Iraq, they are fighting from them because they know that the US couldn't really fire on the mosque, or fear having that clip shown over and over and over and over again (and there are MANY examples of this).
Frankly, if I was a terrorist, that's EXACTLY where I would hide things - and at the first sign that anyone even came close to a warrant, I would be screaming my head off claiming discrimination. We have a guy locally in Ohio who preached hate against the United States on one hand LOUDLY, and when the FBI investigated him because they were worried about a potential threat, and he did exactly what I am saying.
It makes too much sense, and frankly, in this age where you have a small minority screaming at the top of their lungs at everything that Bush does, it would be to terrorists advantage to create an atmosphere where the Federal Government couldn't even investigate at all without creating a stir among those people.
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
No, actually it makes no sense due to the same tactics we've seen since Vietnam, where women would pretend to be mothers but actually carry a bundle of blankets around a bomb into US positions. If you appear to be the enemy, more focus will be put on you. If there are any terrorists still in the US they are driving Ford Expeditions and have big "God Bless America" or "Support our Troops" stickers right on the back.
If you were a terrorist, you would hide your weapons where you know that the FBI will search first ?
Under meters of water or close to other sources of radiation, that's where you want to hide your nuclear material.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
Or, as shown in 9/11, use an unexpected tactic. But yes, the only way to fight a superpower that is looking for you is guerilla tactics of one degree or another, as you cannot win a straight fight.