Yes. A lot of schools will provide at least the essentials for the students ( such as pens, pencils and paper ). Schools already do provide quite a bit, its not like you have to have to bring your own desk and chair to school.
Gah, that'd rock. Though lugging around a giant recliner would get a bit difficult. Anyway, I think DotPs been suffieciently pwnt on that point.
Yes. A lot of schools will provide at least the essentials for the students ( such as pens, pencils and paper ). Schools already do provide quite a bit, its not like you have to have to bring your own desk and chair to school.
Gah, that'd rock. Though lugging around a giant recliner would get a bit difficult. Anyway, I think DotPs been suffieciently pwnt on that point.
Dragon, you could ask her if powerpoint presentations OK. Personally, I think it would be an good solution.
Thanks, I can read. I can also infer a purpose from her actions.
Oh, I guess you could, but I still trying to understand how. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything
I had planned to give some indicator for cost of living, but I couldn't find too much. This site mentions that a taxi ride costs "900 rupiahs for the first kilometre and 45 rupiahs for each additional kilometre. Taxis can also be hired on an hourly basis and the usual charge is 17,000 rupiahs for the first two hours and 6,000 rupiahs for each additional hour." Imagine being able to rent a taxi in the U.S. for 8 hours and only paying six dollars!!
Hmm :confused2:...
That site is a bit outdated or probably misinformated. Taxi rides costs at a minimum of 3,000 rupiahs (around 1/3 USD) and you can't hire taxis on an hourly basis in Jakarta (or Indonesia). Depends on how far you go and the traffic of course. In big cities like Jakarta (which is the site is about :)) 17,000 rupiahs doesn't get you that far. Probably only about 10 kilos.
Just to straightens things a bit on the costs :winky:. But anyway, one single USD here would still mean so much. For poor people, 9000 rupiahs could mean another (or two other) day of living.
Which is why in this case, I'd have to agree on what the teacher said (not on her point forcing your opinion :winky:). Right now, the relief effort needs all the money it can get. Even if it's just a single dollar. Besides,
Quote from Senori »
That dollar will buy a lot more food in, say, Thailand, than it will in Canada.
Dude...just give a dollar. Honestly it would be a much better thing to give a dollar to the Tsunami victims than to use it as an excuse to argue with your teahcer. Its a dollar, it won't hurt to give a little, you'll still be alive tommorow. The people of the tsunami however need money to stay alive right now.
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It's about freedom. I don't oppose to much to donating. I respect her opinion, but she does not respect mine.
She's also FORCING us to go down to a store and buy our own poster board for an assignment that's worth a huge chunk of marks.
Okay, the buying posterboard thing is dumb, but I agree completly with you about the dollar thing... it has nothing at all to do with the money, just the thought behind it... She should have said something more like, Tommorow, a man will be coming around the classes to collect money for aid to the tsunami victims. I would appreciate it if you all would donate a dollar. That way she is not telling you straight out bring a dollar to school tommorow...
This happened in my religion class of all places, we were doing a food drive, and people in my class had brought in cans and whatnot, but left it in the church, and not in our classroom... Well, this made it so the bulletin always said we had 0 cans....
My teacher did not like that, he said we were being confirmed, we should really have some sort of food items, so he gave us the assignment to each bring in five canned items, and if we didnt, we would fail.... Yeah, thats right, fail...
I understand DotP's frustrations with his teacher - I'd be annoyed with her handling the matter as she did, being defensive and sentimental. The schoolkids shouldn't be forced to donate through the teacher's authority, they should be compelled by the teacher to donate for a reason they can understand. The way the teacher presented her case may have raked in a few dollars' worth of charity but must have completely failed to touch her students' sense of morality.
First off, I agree with your sentiments. You should not be forced to give your money, nor should you be attacked for your beliefs.
However, you handled it all wrong. What you did was an act of showmanship; meretricious to the extreme.
All you should have done was simply not donate when asked to. She can't force you to. Just say "no" to charity. To hold an arguement with someone where none is necessary is silly.
Oh, and the posterboard---come on, dude. Are you serious?
Alright, I am really sick of thi tsunami crap. Tragedys happe ever hour of very day. Just because the media has chosen this as something the should constanley talk about 24/7,doesn't me it is actually anyworse than other things going on.
Besides, each and every one of us has already given a lot to the relief effort. Our govrnment decided, without any input from it' citizens, to pledge billions of dollars we can't afford.
If you really want to show how charitable you are, and how much you care, send some money to an Iraqi family who's house blew up.
Also, DoTP, you should know by now that schools do everything possible to discourage thoughts that arn't accepted by the majority.
EDIT: Oh ya, about the poster board....your pushing it
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Just out of curiousity, what grade are you in? Because if you think a $1 piece of posterboard is bad, you should realize what it's like to pay upwards of $90-$150 per book for each of your five courses in college. All this of course on top of $5000 or more a year for tuition. And technically, your teacher isn't forcing you - you can just choose not to do the project and lose points, just as I can choose to not buy my books and fail my classes. But that's just an aside.
Unless DotP's profile on MTGnews is inaccurate, he's only 15 or 16. So unless he's an uber-genius, possible, he's not going to be in college.
Quote from Slovman »
You know...as tragic as the tsunami is, I don't think anyone should expect schoolkids to give a dollar. Some kids don't have a dollar. For that matter, some parents of those kids don't have a dollar to spare. It's not the job of the teachers of America to force their students to do the right thing...their job is to shape what their students' idea of the right thing is.
The problem here is that DotP lives in Canada. No saying that there isn't alot of people who are like that in U.S.
People, do your reseach on the person you critisize.
Anyway, It's your money and you don't have to spend it. No one can say you have beliefs that are wrong.
Alright, I am really sick of thi tsunami crap. Tragedys happe ever hour of very day. Just because the media has chosen this as something the should constanley talk about 24/7,doesn't me it is actually anyworse than other things going on.
Actually...it is. Can you name another tragedy of late in which over 150,000 people died? No? Okay then.
Okay, T2sux, why should I donate money if more than 150,000 people died, but if 100,000 died, then it would be socially acceptable for me to give nothing?
I'm not going to give my money to relief efforts for anybody.
Actually...it is. Can you name another tragedy of late in which over 150,000 people died? No? Okay then.
The differance is, I don't measure tradgety by the number of lives lost. If a tsunami hits your country, oh...sorry, bad luck/positioning on your part. If my country invaded you, and killed 10k+ of your people, I'm a bit more inclined to feel bad for you.
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"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
Now you're coming off as whiny. It's an assignment, and it's your responsibility to have the supplies.
It's a public school. They should provide it.
Just out of curiousity, what grade are you in? Because if you think a $1 piece of posterboard is bad, you should realize what it's like to pay upwards of $90-$150 per book for each of your five courses in college.
Sorry, but no. The thing is, college is a thing you CHOOSE to go to if you want to pay money for more education. Public School is different. I have to go.
-It was the biggest natural disaster in HISTORY!!! (think about that for a sec.)
-What is a Tsunami: An underwater earthquake, which causes massive tidal waves.
It was NOT the biggest natural disaster in history.
There weren't really huge waves, from what I've seen and heard, just huge masses of water, not the same as tidal waves.
Another note on the poster thing: It's been provided by other teachers, but she won't. I don't think it's fair. I have to go to Wal-Mart just to do a school project. That's not cricket.
And again:For those of you sayin I'm pwnt, check again.
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Unless DotP's profile on MTGnews is inaccurate, he's only 15 or 16. So unless he's an uber-genius, possible, he's not going to be in college.
Oh, I was sure DotP wasn't in college, which was my point. I was merely putting it out there that if he thought $1 for posterboard is terrible then he's in for a world of horror when he grows up and starts college.
Quote from "DotP" »
The thing is, college is a thing you CHOOSE to go to if you want to pay money for more education. Public School is different. I have to go.
Yes, you have to go, but you don't have to pass. I know plenty of people who refused to put any money or effort into their high school education, and that's fine, no one forced them to do anything. Sometimes attaining better grades involves shelling out a bit of cash; whether it be for tutors, better supplies or whatever. If you feel the situation is unfair, tell your teacher so. If that doesn't resolve your problem, simply don't do the project. You'll lose points, but at least you'll still have that dollar.
Do they provide your paper? Your pencils? Your notebooks?
You're getting a free education. And you have to pay a few dollars a year.
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but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
In a weird way, I can kind of see logic on both sides.
True, it is VERY selfish to not be willing to give a single dollar to people who just suffered one of the biggest tragedies IN ALL OF HISTORY!
But in the same vein, I don't really think anyone should be forced to give away anything that they don't want to give away. I think your teacher could have approached the situation better by simply asking if everyone donate at least a dollar, rather then insisting they all do.
So yeah, I can see logic on both sides. But for gods sake hon, its just a dollar.
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If you want to give a dollar or not that is your decision and the teacher has no right to tell you to shut up. I am on your side as I was in the Same situation at school.
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then shall the elder signs be shattered. Trade Thread
I'm on Dotp's side 100% of the way. Absolutely. Really, she may not be holding him at gunpoint/knifepoint.. but she's trying to force donations with public humiliation. What she did was a complete disgrace and I wouldn't stand for it either. What is the point of forced charity? Is it really even charity then?
Sure, 1$ may not be much. But what's yours is yours. If you choose to donate or help others with that 1$, good for you. If you choose not to, you have every right to do that. What if Dotp doesn't have much money to give? What if Dotp has to use most of his money for essentials, like food and clothes? I don't know this for sure, and I am not claiming it to be true. But.. what if? Would this teacher do this to even those students who barely have enough for themselves? She has a position of leadership. She should lead by example, not with a whip.
During the holiday season, or... the entire month of December, I went grocery shopping a few times. The supermarket I go to is completely lame. They know they're ripping you off with their prices, for one thing. But everytime I went there they would have some charity person out front, who was really intimidating - demanding that you contribute [for whatever cause]. They practically block the entrance until you either donate or yell at them. The supermarket allows this. Then, when you go to the checkout to get your items rung up.. before they tell you how much you owe, the cashier actually pressures you to donate to some charity as well! Listen, I have donated to charities in the past, I've worked for several charity groups and for a few years I worked at my church's soup kitchen every sunday. So I understand that some people are suffering and that it's important to do something about it. But listen, if anyone tries to intimidate me into donating my money... I won't give it to them, just out of spite. I don't like being harassed by 'do-gooders'. To be honest, many of these groups I haven't even heard of... and I have no idea whether they are legit. Some of the groups that pressure me to donate, I may just be donating to "Sam's heroin fund" for all I know. Plus, when I'm going to a store as a patron, it doesn't make me want to come back when they have people asking for handouts everywhere. If I want to donate, I know how. Otherwise, leave me alone..
So I side with Dotp.
Oh, I was sure DotP wasn't in college, which was my point. I was merely putting it out there that if he thought $1 for posterboard is terrible then he's in for a world of horror when he grows up and starts college.
No, I undersatnd college costs alot. But they're private institutions. My parents pay taxes to fund these schools.
Do they provide your paper? Your pencils? Your notebooks?
Ah, but those are everyday shcool supples. When an assignment requires a specifi item, it should be provided.
ljoss:Thank you.
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Well, seems like spoiler chains(And with them my old sig) have been broken by The Man.
The Man is a Jackass and apparently he is also a Communist.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD YOU MODS! MY SIG IS NOT FOR EDITING!:mad:
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She doesn't have the right to say you were wrong, and that's that. Whether or not it's true is irrelevent. Oh, and do YOU get the posterboard, or do your parents buy it?
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By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
Quote from kingcobweb »
I don't understand the purpose of gimmick accounts.
The teacher has the right to silence you, the right to voice his or her opinion and the right to disagree with you in the classroom. The teacher does not have the right to tell you that you are wrong (unless you are wrong on a fact based answer, such as 2+2) in the classroom.
While I do not agree with you, I do not share her position. Were this my classroom, I would have just momentarily frowned at your decision and then moved on.
I'm with you DotP. I don't think she should be in a way forcing everyone to give up their money and then judge them when they refuse to. What she SHOULD have done is accept donations so anyone who wanted to donate but didn't know how, could. That way, you're not forced to give it. And it was completely out of her rights (I believe) as a public school teacher to tell you that your beliefs are wrong or bad. She has a right to her opinion, but as a teacher, I don't think she has a right to express it in this particular situation.
This is very similar to as if a teacher told you that your religion is wrong in school.
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i should not be prejudiced against just because I think different from you."
For starters I wish to correct this statement. Predjudice is the judgement of someone prior to you knowing them. I'm sure your teacher knows who you are and maybe even a little about your personality (she certainly knows your strong-willed and argumentative). Something you did made her act this way, negating predjudice as she has something to base her thoughts about you off of.
On the subject of donating a dollar and buying poster board...
WELCOME TO LIFE!
Nothing comes freely, its hard and a pain in the ass but you know what? You have to do it. You also have to help people when your down so that one day when you are so deep in crap that you don't know where to turn, someone will offer you a helping hand. How would you like it if a tornado destroyed your home and everything you owned and everyone else around you just said "its not my problem i'm not giving a dollar". Well thats exactly the point, its not your problem but you chose to help anyway 'good for you'. Instead you chose to not give a dollar because you are selfish. Also you chose to raise an argument with a teacher in the middle of a class. I'm in high school and I know when a kid just argues that badly with any teacher, its just attention craving. If you felt really strongly about not giving a dollar and brought up reasons not to give one other than "ITS MINE WAAAH" and if you quitely just didn't give any money as opposed to raising an argument about it then maybe you'd get a little more respect. Get out of your stupid teenage rebellion crap and take your finger out of your a** for two minutes and maybe you'd realize that these people affected by the tsunami NEED help, NOW. Are you going to help your fellow human being or are you going to just say screw em because you don't know them or they don't live in your country. It doesn't matter who these people are, they are people, and they need help. Grow up.
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I hate people that are able to werk who leeches off wellfare, I mean, if you're disabled or orphan thats ok, but if you CAN work but just doesnt want to, you're lazy, besides, they probably brought it onto themselves when instead of doing studies were off to nightclubs and partying.
I heard a rumor that most charities only spend 3/10 of the money they get for the unfortunate, and the rest is used to pay for TV commercials, workers and other stuff
You should donate, but your teacher has no right to force you to.
Although I completely agree with donating to help the victims of this tragedy I think the way the teacher presented this was improper and wrong. This should have been a request for entirely voluntary contributions. If for whatever reason someone chooses not to donate they are entirely within their rights to do so. I don't think anyone thinks this was not a tragedy. Simply because the circumstance the "manditory donation" statement was made for was tragic does not make the fact that this was presented as a manditory donation right. What if the manditory request was made on behalf of the Right to Life organization, the NRA, Planned parenthood, NOW or UNICEF? Would this change whether it was right or not to present the request in this manner? IMO the answer is clearly no.
Charity and compassion in response to human suffering is a laudable quality but is a personal decision that must be made freely. Had this been presented as a voluntary request to help the victims of this tragedy I am sure that compliance would have been 100% of those people who were able to donate and there would not have been any hard feelings.
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Gah, that'd rock. Though lugging around a giant recliner would get a bit difficult. Anyway, I think DotPs been suffieciently pwnt on that point.
Dragon, you could ask her if powerpoint presentations OK. Personally, I think it would be an good solution.
Oh, I guess you could, but I still trying to understand how. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything
Hmm :confused2:...
That site is a bit outdated or probably misinformated. Taxi rides costs at a minimum of 3,000 rupiahs (around 1/3 USD) and you can't hire taxis on an hourly basis in Jakarta (or Indonesia). Depends on how far you go and the traffic of course. In big cities like Jakarta (which is the site is about :)) 17,000 rupiahs doesn't get you that far. Probably only about 10 kilos.
Just to straightens things a bit on the costs :winky:. But anyway, one single USD here would still mean so much. For poor people, 9000 rupiahs could mean another (or two other) day of living.
Which is why in this case, I'd have to agree on what the teacher said (not on her point forcing your opinion :winky:). Right now, the relief effort needs all the money it can get. Even if it's just a single dollar. Besides,
So true..:)
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Okay, the buying posterboard thing is dumb, but I agree completly with you about the dollar thing... it has nothing at all to do with the money, just the thought behind it... She should have said something more like, Tommorow, a man will be coming around the classes to collect money for aid to the tsunami victims. I would appreciate it if you all would donate a dollar. That way she is not telling you straight out bring a dollar to school tommorow...
This happened in my religion class of all places, we were doing a food drive, and people in my class had brought in cans and whatnot, but left it in the church, and not in our classroom... Well, this made it so the bulletin always said we had 0 cans....
My teacher did not like that, he said we were being confirmed, we should really have some sort of food items, so he gave us the assignment to each bring in five canned items, and if we didnt, we would fail.... Yeah, thats right, fail...
First off, I agree with your sentiments. You should not be forced to give your money, nor should you be attacked for your beliefs.
However, you handled it all wrong. What you did was an act of showmanship; meretricious to the extreme.
All you should have done was simply not donate when asked to. She can't force you to. Just say "no" to charity. To hold an arguement with someone where none is necessary is silly.
Oh, and the posterboard---come on, dude. Are you serious?
Besides, each and every one of us has already given a lot to the relief effort. Our govrnment decided, without any input from it' citizens, to pledge billions of dollars we can't afford.
If you really want to show how charitable you are, and how much you care, send some money to an Iraqi family who's house blew up.
Also, DoTP, you should know by now that schools do everything possible to discourage thoughts that arn't accepted by the majority.
EDIT: Oh ya, about the poster board....your pushing it
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
Unless DotP's profile on MTGnews is inaccurate, he's only 15 or 16. So unless he's an uber-genius, possible, he's not going to be in college.
The problem here is that DotP lives in Canada. No saying that there isn't alot of people who are like that in U.S.
People, do your reseach on the person you critisize.
Anyway, It's your money and you don't have to spend it. No one can say you have beliefs that are wrong.
I'm not going to give my money to relief efforts for anybody.
OMFG linkage
The differance is, I don't measure tradgety by the number of lives lost. If a tsunami hits your country, oh...sorry, bad luck/positioning on your part. If my country invaded you, and killed 10k+ of your people, I'm a bit more inclined to feel bad for you.
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
It's a public school. They should provide it.
Sorry, but no. The thing is, college is a thing you CHOOSE to go to if you want to pay money for more education. Public School is different. I have to go.
It was NOT the biggest natural disaster in history.
There weren't really huge waves, from what I've seen and heard, just huge masses of water, not the same as tidal waves.
Another note on the poster thing: It's been provided by other teachers, but she won't. I don't think it's fair. I have to go to Wal-Mart just to do a school project. That's not cricket.
And again:For those of you sayin I'm pwnt, check again.
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Oh, I was sure DotP wasn't in college, which was my point. I was merely putting it out there that if he thought $1 for posterboard is terrible then he's in for a world of horror when he grows up and starts college.
Yes, you have to go, but you don't have to pass. I know plenty of people who refused to put any money or effort into their high school education, and that's fine, no one forced them to do anything. Sometimes attaining better grades involves shelling out a bit of cash; whether it be for tutors, better supplies or whatever. If you feel the situation is unfair, tell your teacher so. If that doesn't resolve your problem, simply don't do the project. You'll lose points, but at least you'll still have that dollar.
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Do they provide your paper? Your pencils? Your notebooks?
You're getting a free education. And you have to pay a few dollars a year.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
True, it is VERY selfish to not be willing to give a single dollar to people who just suffered one of the biggest tragedies IN ALL OF HISTORY!
But in the same vein, I don't really think anyone should be forced to give away anything that they don't want to give away. I think your teacher could have approached the situation better by simply asking if everyone donate at least a dollar, rather then insisting they all do.
So yeah, I can see logic on both sides. But for gods sake hon, its just a dollar.
Rasputina - A Quitter
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
Sure, 1$ may not be much. But what's yours is yours. If you choose to donate or help others with that 1$, good for you. If you choose not to, you have every right to do that. What if Dotp doesn't have much money to give? What if Dotp has to use most of his money for essentials, like food and clothes? I don't know this for sure, and I am not claiming it to be true. But.. what if? Would this teacher do this to even those students who barely have enough for themselves? She has a position of leadership. She should lead by example, not with a whip.
During the holiday season, or... the entire month of December, I went grocery shopping a few times. The supermarket I go to is completely lame. They know they're ripping you off with their prices, for one thing. But everytime I went there they would have some charity person out front, who was really intimidating - demanding that you contribute [for whatever cause]. They practically block the entrance until you either donate or yell at them. The supermarket allows this. Then, when you go to the checkout to get your items rung up.. before they tell you how much you owe, the cashier actually pressures you to donate to some charity as well! Listen, I have donated to charities in the past, I've worked for several charity groups and for a few years I worked at my church's soup kitchen every sunday. So I understand that some people are suffering and that it's important to do something about it. But listen, if anyone tries to intimidate me into donating my money... I won't give it to them, just out of spite. I don't like being harassed by 'do-gooders'. To be honest, many of these groups I haven't even heard of... and I have no idea whether they are legit. Some of the groups that pressure me to donate, I may just be donating to "Sam's heroin fund" for all I know. Plus, when I'm going to a store as a patron, it doesn't make me want to come back when they have people asking for handouts everywhere. If I want to donate, I know how. Otherwise, leave me alone..
So I side with Dotp.
No, I undersatnd college costs alot. But they're private institutions. My parents pay taxes to fund these schools.
Ah, but those are everyday shcool supples. When an assignment requires a specifi item, it should be provided.
ljoss:Thank you.
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By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]
While I do not agree with you, I do not share her position. Were this my classroom, I would have just momentarily frowned at your decision and then moved on.
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This is very similar to as if a teacher told you that your religion is wrong in school.
"Kids don't beat me, I beat kids!" - Homer
"Serve no master but your ambition." - Illyria
"The best government is the government that is powerlessly afraid of overstepping it's bounds." - Denver'D
For starters I wish to correct this statement. Predjudice is the judgement of someone prior to you knowing them. I'm sure your teacher knows who you are and maybe even a little about your personality (she certainly knows your strong-willed and argumentative). Something you did made her act this way, negating predjudice as she has something to base her thoughts about you off of.
On the subject of donating a dollar and buying poster board...
WELCOME TO LIFE!
Nothing comes freely, its hard and a pain in the ass but you know what? You have to do it. You also have to help people when your down so that one day when you are so deep in crap that you don't know where to turn, someone will offer you a helping hand. How would you like it if a tornado destroyed your home and everything you owned and everyone else around you just said "its not my problem i'm not giving a dollar". Well thats exactly the point, its not your problem but you chose to help anyway 'good for you'. Instead you chose to not give a dollar because you are selfish. Also you chose to raise an argument with a teacher in the middle of a class. I'm in high school and I know when a kid just argues that badly with any teacher, its just attention craving. If you felt really strongly about not giving a dollar and brought up reasons not to give one other than "ITS MINE WAAAH" and if you quitely just didn't give any money as opposed to raising an argument about it then maybe you'd get a little more respect. Get out of your stupid teenage rebellion crap and take your finger out of your a** for two minutes and maybe you'd realize that these people affected by the tsunami NEED help, NOW. Are you going to help your fellow human being or are you going to just say screw em because you don't know them or they don't live in your country. It doesn't matter who these people are, they are people, and they need help. Grow up.
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I heard a rumor that most charities only spend 3/10 of the money they get for the unfortunate, and the rest is used to pay for TV commercials, workers and other stuff
You should donate, but your teacher has no right to force you to.
Charity and compassion in response to human suffering is a laudable quality but is a personal decision that must be made freely. Had this been presented as a voluntary request to help the victims of this tragedy I am sure that compliance would have been 100% of those people who were able to donate and there would not have been any hard feelings.
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