This thread is for the discussion of Meyou's latest article, Off Topic: My Magic Product Wishlist. Due to technical issues the thread that is normally created when an article is published didn't occur, so I have created this thread to allow you to talk about it. As always, please keep your comments on topic.
Commander
The great thing about the casual products is that they allow Wizards to explore design space that they can't in a normal set without having to be flat-out insane like an Un-set. I think some multiplayer-geared planeswalkers would be a good space to explore.
Since these sets aren't linked to any specific time and place, they could even make an Urza card if they really wanted. The only reason I think they haven't done planeswalkers is out of fear of overshadowing the new commanders in the set.
Fat Pack
I also like the idea of a binder with slots for every card in the set and I'd probably get more use out of that than the boxes that the fat packs come in now. Having some unique swag for each set's fat pack would be nice, too.
Core Sets
As for Core Set flavor, it seems like they are making Shandalar the Core Set plane, since it can serve as a fairly general fantasy world without all the baggage of Dominaria. I don't think everything has to be from one plane, though, and I appreciate the fact that the Core Set can give small glimpses of all of Magic's various worlds even if it's just a random quote from Baron Sengir or an artifact from Mirrodin.
What I don't like are the "cards from nowhere," particularly creatures with really generic names. When I first started playing, I really liked the fact that you had Shivan Dragons and Llanowar Elves and other creatures that came from specific places and flavor text that hinted at what those places were like.
I would absolutely splurge a bit for each set's 'fat pack' if it had a binder made specifically to hold every card in that set. That by itself makes the product an automatic buy for me. Sure I can just go buy a plain binder, but for some reason I never get around to doing that. If the binder came with a bunch of cards and it's all tied together artistically, I'd be all over that.
Regarding the player-designed cards, I believe that the winner of the Invitational (a tournament made up of Magic pro players and community contributors) got to design a card, not the winner of Worlds. I do like the idea of pro tokens though.
Regarding the player-designed cards, I believe that the winner of the Invitational (a tournament made up of Magic pro players and community contributors) got to design a card, not the winner of Worlds. I do like the idea of pro tokens though.
I guess time has muddled my memory as you are correct. Unfortunately, we did lose the invitational so I guess the default would be the world champion.
In regards to the other reposnses:
Of all the suggestions, the spellbook is what gets people the most excited. Some people like or are okay with the other suggestions. The spellbook really, really excites Magic fans. I think it is mostly has to do with the whole flavor of the idea and it just makes sense or should I say it is very grokkable.
I hope someone in wizards' product design pays attention to this. The spellbook idea specifically. Core sets having flavor is a nice idea too. My idea would be for it to have both the flavor of the set before and the upcoming set to bring some continuity. Imagine if the core set between new phyrexian and innistrad would have had a little bit of both!
Redesigned premium booster! Sign me up! I don't ever play booster drafts or anything like that. I just do constructed and most of the commons have little use for me. I'd go straight for the premium boosters if they made them.
Regarding the "Golden Ticket" idea, I think it would be more feasible (and more fun, honestly) to do what Pokémon does by including special printings of some of the cards in the set at a new, higher-than-Mythic rarity.
For example, this is the normal Skyla card, which is Uncommon in rarity. But this is the Ultra Rare version of the same card. Much more interesting, no?
All of the Ultra Rare cards in Pokémon are full-art printings of other cards in the set. And they're freakin' gorgeous in real life.
Beyond Ultra Rare, though, there is "Secret Rare," which are cards that are not officially listed, and are generally "shiny" monsters (ones with alternate colorings), such as this black Charizard.
These rarities don't add entirely new cards, so power creep isn't an issue here. But they make booster packs even more exciting, they entice collectors, and they stimulate the secondary market without limiting access to "normal" printings of those cards.
I myself would absolutely love the lending bots feature on magic online, easily the best idea of the article, although all the points were well-reasoned and insightful.
I would drop money each set on a fat pack if they did that. Even if it upped the price. Especially the premium pack idea. My LGS has a new wave of players, and they would absolutely devour the fat packs if they were this way.
As a new MTG player, I was told by a store employee to try a Fat Pack. I did, and as I started to get hooked, I wound up buying five Fat Packs to begin building my collection:
I did think the multi-colored 20-sided dice were cool, but quickly enough, I learned that all I really wanted were the booster packs. So a few weeks later, when my mind figured out that what I really wanted was booster boxes, I realized I had been steered wrong by the store employee. (Who, in his defense, certainly meant well. As the author of this article writes, that's how the Fat Packs were positioned in the market. As my ambassador to MTG, the employee was simply giving the company line as he knew it.)
The good news is I didn't really get "taken", per se -- the cost of the Fat Pack (and the 20%-40% discounts on the Core/Gatecrash/Dragon's Maze product) was mostly in-line with the cost of 9 boosters (give or take a few dollars).
But the author's point is highly germane to my experience: nothing in the Fat Pack felt at all welcoming to me, other than the 20-sided dice. I didn't need the cumbersome fold-out guidebook -- that's what Magic 2014: Duel of the Planeswalkers was for. I didn't need the card list -- I'm new, remember? What am I going to do with a card list of a product I'm unfamiliar with? The small deck boxes aren't particularly useful -- it only takes one night of hanging out at FNM to spot far superior product that's relatively cheap.
So as I read this article, I found myself nodding my head during the Fat Pack section. A binder would have been great. Maybe include one or two "tip cards" (e.g., "Tip to a Newbie: if you play THIS CARD with THAT CARD, you'll be happy!" or somesuch - a tip eminently useful in FNM booster drafts that's applicable to common situations). Continue to include dice, or some other counter format. (Truly: a note pad counter might be the most useful thing in the Fat Pack. I'm in week 9 of playing MTG and I got my first note pad just yesterday while at GP: DC.)
My second reaction to this article was, "Wonka Golden Tickets? Count me in!!". If the Golden Tickets were rare and had significant value to the average MTG player or collector, and if the programme was marketed properly, I think this could be a huge boon for Wizards of the Coast and the MTG community. Will booster boxes and cases fly off the shelf, a'la the supermarket scene in Willy Wonka? No But would the programme give us one more really good reason to invest our disposable income in boosters? Heck yeah! I love the idea.
Thanks Garp74 for your response. Boards don't often get replies or well thought out responses such as this from new players. So.. thanks again.
I did find it interesting how the Fat Pack can have negative consequences from the buyer later such as yourself. I'm sure even "feeling" like you are being taken or dupped can't be a good thing. Anyway, it is an aspect of your response that I found really interesting.
Great ideas all around. I started playing just after Dragon's Maze was released, and bought several fat packs. I still really like the concept, but haven't bought one in ages... just singles now, or the occasional booster box when I have $$ burning a hole in my pocket. Your suggestions would most definitely get me re-interested in Fat Packs.
Personally, I would like to see the "golden ticket" idea go in a different direction. A tour of WOTC would be fun, but you know what would be even better? If these cards were more like an invitation to a special tournament. Maybe a different type of tournament altogether-- probably have to be the limited format, but that would make sense with the block sets. Maybe they could do some sort of "WizCon" or something similar-- a big event for the fans, less based on a single big prize tourney but a more casual event with lots of stuff for new and old players alike.
That, I'm sure, is something that would take years to work out the details on, but I think it'd be very cool!
Edit: I am loving the idea of some sort of fan-centric convention, with lots of casual tournaments/activities etc. It could be open to the public, but a "golden ticket" card might serve as a VIP invitation w/ accommodations included or something. Give casual players a taste of what it's like to be a pro
The Lending feature would not fly for one simple reason: it discourages people from buying product.
A new set comes out. I buy none of it on MTGO. After a few weeks the initial metagame starts to emerge and I rent the decks for random tournaments and/or DEs (if/when they ever come back....). I win or place high enough that the prize pays for my rental and gives me a surplus.
Now this wouldn't be the most common occurrence of MTGO users, but assuming they skew towards the more competitive anyway, it might be enough of a % to have an effect on product sales -- my "EV" is now better off to rent & win than in playing limited or assembling a constructed deck of my own.
(Obviously there are economic effects that would counteract this somewhat, as the less-opened product causes the price for the cards to go up, as does the rental value of having the cards, which would raise the EV for sealed product again. But i'm guessing the equilibrium would be reached by the renters of decks/cards gaining more value at the expense of WotC's digital product)
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
The great thing about the casual products is that they allow Wizards to explore design space that they can't in a normal set without having to be flat-out insane like an Un-set. I think some multiplayer-geared planeswalkers would be a good space to explore.
Since these sets aren't linked to any specific time and place, they could even make an Urza card if they really wanted. The only reason I think they haven't done planeswalkers is out of fear of overshadowing the new commanders in the set.
Fat Pack
I also like the idea of a binder with slots for every card in the set and I'd probably get more use out of that than the boxes that the fat packs come in now. Having some unique swag for each set's fat pack would be nice, too.
Core Sets
As for Core Set flavor, it seems like they are making Shandalar the Core Set plane, since it can serve as a fairly general fantasy world without all the baggage of Dominaria. I don't think everything has to be from one plane, though, and I appreciate the fact that the Core Set can give small glimpses of all of Magic's various worlds even if it's just a random quote from Baron Sengir or an artifact from Mirrodin.
What I don't like are the "cards from nowhere," particularly creatures with really generic names. When I first started playing, I really liked the fact that you had Shivan Dragons and Llanowar Elves and other creatures that came from specific places and flavor text that hinted at what those places were like.
I guess time has muddled my memory as you are correct. Unfortunately, we did lose the invitational so I guess the default would be the world champion.
In regards to the other reposnses:
Of all the suggestions, the spellbook is what gets people the most excited. Some people like or are okay with the other suggestions. The spellbook really, really excites Magic fans. I think it is mostly has to do with the whole flavor of the idea and it just makes sense or should I say it is very grokkable.
Redesigned premium booster! Sign me up! I don't ever play booster drafts or anything like that. I just do constructed and most of the commons have little use for me. I'd go straight for the premium boosters if they made them.
For example, this is the normal Skyla card, which is Uncommon in rarity. But this is the Ultra Rare version of the same card. Much more interesting, no?
All of the Ultra Rare cards in Pokémon are full-art printings of other cards in the set. And they're freakin' gorgeous in real life.
Beyond Ultra Rare, though, there is "Secret Rare," which are cards that are not officially listed, and are generally "shiny" monsters (ones with alternate colorings), such as this black Charizard.
These rarities don't add entirely new cards, so power creep isn't an issue here. But they make booster packs even more exciting, they entice collectors, and they stimulate the secondary market without limiting access to "normal" printings of those cards.
As a new MTG player, I was told by a store employee to try a Fat Pack. I did, and as I started to get hooked, I wound up buying five Fat Packs to begin building my collection:
2 Theros Fat Packs
1 2014 Core Fat Pack
1 Gatecrash Fat Pack
1 Dragon's Maze Fat Pack
I did think the multi-colored 20-sided dice were cool, but quickly enough, I learned that all I really wanted were the booster packs. So a few weeks later, when my mind figured out that what I really wanted was booster boxes, I realized I had been steered wrong by the store employee. (Who, in his defense, certainly meant well. As the author of this article writes, that's how the Fat Packs were positioned in the market. As my ambassador to MTG, the employee was simply giving the company line as he knew it.)
The good news is I didn't really get "taken", per se -- the cost of the Fat Pack (and the 20%-40% discounts on the Core/Gatecrash/Dragon's Maze product) was mostly in-line with the cost of 9 boosters (give or take a few dollars).
But the author's point is highly germane to my experience: nothing in the Fat Pack felt at all welcoming to me, other than the 20-sided dice. I didn't need the cumbersome fold-out guidebook -- that's what Magic 2014: Duel of the Planeswalkers was for. I didn't need the card list -- I'm new, remember? What am I going to do with a card list of a product I'm unfamiliar with? The small deck boxes aren't particularly useful -- it only takes one night of hanging out at FNM to spot far superior product that's relatively cheap.
So as I read this article, I found myself nodding my head during the Fat Pack section. A binder would have been great. Maybe include one or two "tip cards" (e.g., "Tip to a Newbie: if you play THIS CARD with THAT CARD, you'll be happy!" or somesuch - a tip eminently useful in FNM booster drafts that's applicable to common situations). Continue to include dice, or some other counter format. (Truly: a note pad counter might be the most useful thing in the Fat Pack. I'm in week 9 of playing MTG and I got my first note pad just yesterday while at GP: DC.)
My second reaction to this article was, "Wonka Golden Tickets? Count me in!!". If the Golden Tickets were rare and had significant value to the average MTG player or collector, and if the programme was marketed properly, I think this could be a huge boon for Wizards of the Coast and the MTG community. Will booster boxes and cases fly off the shelf, a'la the supermarket scene in Willy Wonka? No But would the programme give us one more really good reason to invest our disposable income in boosters? Heck yeah! I love the idea.
Thanks for a fun and well-written article!
With regards,
Garp74
I did find it interesting how the Fat Pack can have negative consequences from the buyer later such as yourself. I'm sure even "feeling" like you are being taken or dupped can't be a good thing. Anyway, it is an aspect of your response that I found really interesting.
Personally, I would like to see the "golden ticket" idea go in a different direction. A tour of WOTC would be fun, but you know what would be even better? If these cards were more like an invitation to a special tournament. Maybe a different type of tournament altogether-- probably have to be the limited format, but that would make sense with the block sets. Maybe they could do some sort of "WizCon" or something similar-- a big event for the fans, less based on a single big prize tourney but a more casual event with lots of stuff for new and old players alike.
That, I'm sure, is something that would take years to work out the details on, but I think it'd be very cool!
Edit: I am loving the idea of some sort of fan-centric convention, with lots of casual tournaments/activities etc. It could be open to the public, but a "golden ticket" card might serve as a VIP invitation w/ accommodations included or something. Give casual players a taste of what it's like to be a pro
A new set comes out. I buy none of it on MTGO. After a few weeks the initial metagame starts to emerge and I rent the decks for random tournaments and/or DEs (if/when they ever come back....). I win or place high enough that the prize pays for my rental and gives me a surplus.
Now this wouldn't be the most common occurrence of MTGO users, but assuming they skew towards the more competitive anyway, it might be enough of a % to have an effect on product sales -- my "EV" is now better off to rent & win than in playing limited or assembling a constructed deck of my own.
(Obviously there are economic effects that would counteract this somewhat, as the less-opened product causes the price for the cards to go up, as does the rental value of having the cards, which would raise the EV for sealed product again. But i'm guessing the equilibrium would be reached by the renters of decks/cards gaining more value at the expense of WotC's digital product)
- over 40 casual decks sleeved and ready to go
- EDH: Doran, Doran; Arcanis <3 Artifacts; ROTFLellos; Whistle While You Wort; Scionara, Dragon-san; Mr Mangara Goes to Washington
(with others under construction)